Podcast Summary: "Beyond Mere Fact: The Rhetorical Nature of History"
Hillsdale College K-12 Classical Education Podcast — February 2, 2026
Guest: John Peterson (Assistant Director of Curriculum, Hillsdale College K-12 Education Office; Lecturer in Education and Politics)
Host: Scott Bertram
Run time: ~20 minutes

Episode Overview

This episode explores the provocative idea of "history as rhetoric"—that history, rather than simply presenting neutral facts, inherently involves persuasion, argumentation, and interpretation. John Peterson argues that teaching history is less about memorizing facts or knowledge "for its own sake," and more about cultivating students’ prudence and judgment by engaging them with historical arguments, speeches, and character studies. The discussion highlights the classical roots of this approach, its implications for teaching, and its historic role in American education.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Does “History as Rhetoric” Mean? (02:13–03:44)

• Provocative Framing: Peterson clarifies that calling history “rhetoric” doesn’t mean distorting truth or persuading students of a personal thesis.
• The Teacher’s Aim: The goal is to help students discern what’s important and relevant in historical situations—cultivating "historical prudence."
  • “The teacher aims at cultivation of prudence, historical prudence..." (02:46, Peterson)
• Classical Ideal: History has traditionally been part of the education of the "ideal orator"—furnishing knowledge of relevant particulars to enable judgment in new contexts.
  • “It’s knowledge of the regular, of the relevant particulars and the discernment to recognize... which ones are relevant in which particular context.” (03:10, Peterson)

2. Conventional Approaches to History & Their Limits (03:44–05:40)

• Fact Collection: The common “value-neutral” or “scientific” approach presents history as a collection of facts, often without persuasive purpose.
• Purpose of History: Peterson challenges the view of history as “knowledge for its own sake.”
  • “It’s not really for its own sake that it’s not worth knowing.” (04:32, Peterson)
• Practical Use: In the tradition, history is meant to instruct—especially to help recognize relevant situations and draw meaningful comparisons.
• Raw Material for Citizenship: History provides examples (“raw material”) for statesmanship and citizenship.

3. History's Role in the Liberal Arts Tradition (05:40–07:22)

• Not a "Liberal Art" Proper: In classical education, history is not typically a liberal art; it supports rhetoric.
  • “...the purpose of learning history is in support of the fundamental human or humane activity of what rhetoric does, which is speech in support of the noble and the good...” (06:06, Peterson)
• Historical Figures: Ancient historians like Herodotus, Livy, and Tacitus saw history as a practical aid for statesmen.
• Shift in the 19th Century: Hegel’s influence moved history from agency of individuals to viewing people as objects (“on the right or wrong side of history”).

4. Implications for Classroom Teaching (07:22–09:13)

• Argumentation, Not Just Facts: Teachers should frame history not merely as data transmission, but as understanding and evaluating arguments within historical contexts.
  • “Facts always are supporting an argument.” (07:44, Peterson)
• Making Students "Suspicious" Readers: Encourage examining events from multiple sides and making arguments for or against historical figures.
• Cultivating Prudence: The ultimate aim is to train students in "historical prudence"—the judgment to apply past lessons to new situations.
• Emphasis on Biography & Character: Biographies and character studies should be central, highlighting decisions and virtues (or vices) of individuals.
  • “It’s the human beings who are [noble or base]. It’s their actions that have to be celebrated or condemned.” (08:51, Peterson)

5. The Significance of Speeches and Arguments in History (09:13–10:57)

• Speeches as Meaning-Makers: Classical histories—e.g., Thucydides—interweave factual accounts with invented or reconstructed speeches to give events meaning.
  • “He’s putting the meaning to the history into the mouths of the different people who are historical actors at each point.” (09:48, Peterson)
• Use of Primary Sources: Even without grand speeches, modern teachers are encouraged to foreground primary sources and give historical personalities their voice.
• Teachers’ Creative Role: Teachers should, like Thucydides, help students imagine or reconstruct what historical actors might have said.

6. Storytelling vs. Rhetoric in History (11:03–12:43)

• Storytelling is Subordinate: While narrative (storytelling) is important for setting the scene, it must serve the higher rhetorical purpose of making or illustrating arguments.
  • “Storytelling is subordinate. It serves the purpose of setting the stage, but it doesn't make the necessary argument.” (11:05, Peterson)
• Eloquence in Classical Sense: Drawing from Cicero, Peterson distinguishes between storytelling (naratio) and the confirmatio (proof)—history is a form of eloquence aiming at truth through argument.

7. Rhetorical History in American Education (12:49–15:11)

• The Founders’ View: Peterson explains how American founders saw history (especially Roman) as a necessary preparation for citizenship and statesmanship.
  • “They were explicit about the purpose of studying history, especially classical precedents of republicanism...for the purpose of citizenship and statesmanship.” (12:51, Peterson)
• Cultivating Prudence: History was supposed to give Americans the discernment to recognize ambition, understand justification for actions, and engage in public rhetoric.
• The Columbian Orator: Citing the 19th-century textbook (notably Frederick Douglass’s first purchase), Peterson shows how historical speeches were central to both rhetorical and historical education.
  • “The most popular schoolbook of the first half of the 19th century was the Columbian Orator...this is the first book that Frederick Douglass bought with his own money...” (14:06, Peterson)
• Integration of Rhetoric and History: Early American education blended oratory and historical study through recitations, dialogues, and speeches—indoctrinating students in both eloquence and historical understanding.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The historian or the history teacher aims at the student understanding what's important, how to determine what is relevant historical information in a particular context.” — John Peterson (02:35)
• “It’s not really for its own sake that it’s not worth knowing…it serves as a kind of subordinate role to statesmanship or simply citizenship.” — John Peterson (05:18)
• “Teachers need to be giving a lot of biographies, a lot of character studies…It’s the human beings who are. It’s their actions that have to be celebrated or condemned.” — John Peterson (08:45)
• “He’s putting the meaning to the history into the mouths of the different people who are historical actors at each point...that’s the real meat of the work.” — John Peterson, on Thucydides (09:48)
• “Storytelling is subordinate. It serves the purpose of setting the stage, but it doesn’t make the necessary argument.” — John Peterson (11:05)
• “The most popular schoolbook of the first half of the 19th century was the Columbian Orator...this is the first book that Frederick Douglass bought with his own money...this is what being educated looks like.” — John Peterson (14:06)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:13–03:44 — Defining "history as rhetoric"
• 03:44–05:40 — Critique of value-neutral history and knowledge "for its own sake"
• 05:40–07:22 — History's traditional role supporting rhetoric, not as a "liberal art"
• 07:22–09:13 — Practical implications for classroom teaching
• 09:13–10:57 — The importance of speeches and arguments in making history meaningful
• 11:03–12:43 — Difference between rhetoric and storytelling; the role of eloquence
• 12:49–15:11 — Rhetorical history in American education and the legacy of the Columbian Orator

Summary prepared for listeners seeking a thorough understanding of the episode's central arguments and their implications for classical and civic education.