A (4:21)

How does our celebration of this holiday align with some of the aims and the mission of our classical schools?

B (4:29)

Each classical school will have a different take on it, but we share the base level philosophy. And I'll try to distill it into something we can all agree here, and that's the development of the hearts and minds of our students to shape their moral character, to cultivate responsibility and prudential decision making and incline them towards what is noble in life. In short, to act with justice in all things should be the aim of our students, of responsible citizens, and to keep this in the sphere of the Constitution. I mean, it's quite, quite easy to point to George Washington here, and he has a famous quote on education here, that knowledge is the basis of public happiness. And in classical schools, we're trying to instill knowledge in each individual across a wide range of subject matter. So when students leave our schools, they are best equipped to live justly and joyfully and to pursue their interests, and to pursue their interests with a freedom that our Republic can afford to extend. So that mission that we have is an expression of our nature to seek knowledge, to find advancements in literature and science and philosophy. And as the freest, most prosperous society, we're at our utmost liberty to pursue our interests, achieve our goals. Our mission as schools in celebrating this holiday is to kind of align that, that celebration, that responsibility, that decision making, back to the framework of our government that has created the very conditions that we live in and enjoy.

A (6:23)

What are some practical strategies, perhaps for those out there, for facilitating classroom activities and perhaps lessons themed around this Constitution Day holiday?

B (6:34)

Yeah, that's a good question, because it can be a little awkward to have this one off outside of your normal flow of your unit interruption. And so what I would point teachers to do for, for homeschool instructors to do is, is to look into their current curricula for relevant connections So I, I know, for example, in our third grade, they use, in their history sequence, they're, they're covering Rome at that time. And so they use the occasion to discuss how the, the separation of powers and checks and balances in our Constitution were inspired by, by the Roman Republic and then what differences there are and what improvements were made by our framers. And so they're able to use language and characters and settings that are familiar to their students and then lead them towards the understanding of the Constitution. And so for me, at the high school level, I scale this up and I, I routinely introduce to them a piece of writing by Frederick Douglass this. And they'll come to know him later in the course when we get to the Civil War and his portrait hangs in our classroom and I go towards a particular excerpt, depending on what time I have that day will depend on the length. But we'll look at some of his writing. We'll look at possibly James Madison's On Property or Thomas Paine's Common Sense. These would all be some good material that teachers could look to, to take an excerpt from, from a contemporary primary source to the Constitution authored by the Founders, and then lead your students in drawing connections and uncovering the philosophical underpinnings of specific articles and connecting them back both to their contemporary sources into the necessary precedents that led to the Constitution. John Locke in particular comes close to.

A (8:41)

Mind, having taught at both the lower grade level and at the upper school level. What are some differences in approaching the topic between those grade levels?

B (8:52)

Yeah, like I said, I, when I said I try to scale it up to the high school, that is definitely in this vein of how can we teach it appropriately across the K12 spectrum? And, and a lesson that presents an accomplishable challenge will best keep students engaged. Right. So it is going to be interesting, it is going to be work. But they can see that the finish line is attainable. They're not just lost in natural rights philosophy. There is this set goal and so differentiating. Then what you ask of the student here needs to be with respect to what is achievable at their level. And what I found teaching in sixth grade is that the students did well with the Constitution itself and we want to go through the whole thing. We would not have enough time for that. But I would change up where we would look to usually the first few articles, the establishment of the branches, and I would have them try to understand some of the more difficult, difficult vocabulary work, but then apply, once we've got a good understanding, apply it to their own lives and understandings. Trying to stay grounded in just a few portions of the Constitution is very much encouraged. I think we have a tendency possibly to say we have to teach the entirety of the Constitution. And I think that that's probably an unreal ask for a lot of the classroom teachers in the upper school. I now teach also a seventh grade history class in addition to ninth and 11th. But in seventh graders going into ninth, right. This middle school, they're getting more contentious. And so presenting the Constitution to them in the form of an argument that our Constitution stands against monarchy, it stands against tyranny. We have to make the argument against mob rule. And then challenging them to get into this contention has been fruitful and very enjoyable. To see them kind of wrestle with that argument in the 11th grade classroom. I think they're ready for the challenge of articulating their own understanding. And so I would take that excerpt of Frederick Douglass and in it he's arguing against William Lloyd Garrison, who's an abolitionist and wants the Constitution destroyed. And I try to steel man Garrison's argument for them and sincerely trying to make the case for why this Constitution allows for slavery and therefore has to be gone. And then they read this excerpt from Frederick Douglass, an escaped slave who makes the claim that it's the greatest document of liberty in all of human history. And so rather than have them argue it, I asked them to kind of sit with these two sides and then challenge them to articulate how could two authors using the same source come to two vastly different conclusions? And so from that starting point, we kind of have a seminar on who's right and justify your answer.

A (12:16)

I'm curious, as you bring up that particular topic, are there questions that arise most years, every year from students about the Constitution as you are celebrating it, Are there questions that you often get from your students in class?

B (12:33)

Yeah, 100%. And as no surprise to your listeners, it usually comes around slavery. And that is why I turn to this selection because I know that this is a current in our culture right now. I know this is an argument. I know that whether it's in pop culture or major cinema, they're going to see this anti constitutional current that claims kind of the Garrisonian perspective of pro slavery. America is founded on slavery. Its founding documents are. Are tainted by that. And so I think the best I want my students to be prepared to go out into the world and to think through what they're going to face and have a good historical perspective to respond from. And so that's why I use this example in particular, the other questions that they often have is it takes more time. This would be some advice for teachers. It takes more time than you expect to explain the three fifths clause. What would have happened to state voting power, how power would have shifted in the federal government if this clause had not existed, or if it existed in a different form. That's a very complex one that is worth sitting with so that your students can come to a deep and abiding understanding that the founding Fathers took this issue and the need for unity incredibly serious and that this document has within it a spirit of both compromise, but also upholding human dignity and liberty.

A (14:23)

Talking with Zach Dombrowski about celebrating Constitution Day. Do you have any Go to resources where people might learn more about the Constitution.

B (14:34)

Absolutely. And in general, for teachers out there, you know, they can always reach out to the K12 office and the master teacher cohort, and we're available to help give advice. I often point other teachers and new teachers. You know, we have a great parent community here at Golden View, and we routinely get parents in the classroom and they're like, wow, I wish I could sit here forever. I'm like, know you, you don't have to, but you can. Go to the Hillsdale online courses. And particularly for the Constitution, there's Dr. Arn's introduction to the Constitution course. That one is fast paced. It'll get right to the heart of the manor. It's fun to watch. And then there's the follow on 101 and 201 courses. And these are just great resources for anyone interested in understanding the central document. To our public, the courses are free. They're informative in their breadth. For the Constitution one, you know, understanding the ramifications of the Constitution on our regime, on our society. So you get this, this very wide view. And then Dr. Arn also dives very deep into the philosophical roots of the founding and the framing. I mean, we'll be in, in that conversation that you'll watch there, they'll be talking about the Roman Forum. You'll be talking about the mixed regime of the Spartans, the celebrated ideals of the Democrats in Athens. And I mean, there's fun to watch too. My, my wife and I have sat down on a number of occasions with the kids. They're very young, so they're not with. For our benefit, let's be honest. And we've watched a number of them and really enjoy them. Yeah, the, the course book for the intro one is the Founder's Key. That is a, that's an excellent book. Well, Written fast paced and it won't take you long to be able to get this. Both depth and breadth, as I mentioned, but being able to start thinking in the same way of what are these connections we're founding documents to the lives that we live and enjoy today. If you wanted to dive right in, if there's classroom teacher, it's like, okay, great, give me some contemporary sources. First thing I'd go to is Federalist Papers, masterful arguments by the Framers, explaining and reasoning through the Constitution. If you were to just select a few to read, of course, Federalist 10, Federalist 51. Both are authored by James Madison, known as the father of the Constitution. My personal favorite of the Framers too. So a little biased there.

A (17:16)

That's okay. It's your interview. You can be biased in the interview.

B (17:19)

Yeah.

A (17:20)

With the 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence around the corner in our minds, how would you describe the connection between the Constitution, which we celebrate here shortly, and the Declaration of Independence?

B (17:35)

Yeah, let me try to put it a little wide and then I'll zoom in. The. The Declaration states some transcendental principles, truths not constrained to any individual time, place or people, just rather they apply universally. And there's some stated and strong claims to objective truth here. Self evident truths that men are created equal, that they're endowed with certain unalienable rights, that legitimate government is only through the consent of the governed, and that the proper role of government is the aim and promotion of the protection of your rights. So the Declaration has, has this language right. It captures both our hearts and our imaginations. It is the first cause of our newly established and fledgling republic. If we fast forward through a very difficult but triumphant decade and we get through that perseverance and that sacrifice of that founding generation, we get to the Constitution, which can serve as a bookend, as the final cause of the origin of, of our regime. And with this, then we can look at the Constitution as having captured those transcendent principles of the Declaration and brought them into a framework of government that best achieves them. Nobody ever claims perfection, of course. The beginning and the end of the beginning together, these, these two documents kind of form the foundational story of the United States from this philosophical and law instituting framework. And I mean for, for us history guys, we, we love that kind of way to look at it because we can play those stories out amongst these larger thematic questions. And so we're, we're just, we're glad that they wrote these incredible documents.

A (19:58)

Zach Dombrowski is upper School history teacher at Golden View Classical academy in Golden, Colorado. Also a master teacher for Hillsdale's K12 education office. Zach, thanks so much for joining us here on The Hillsdale College K12 Classical Education Podcast and Happy Constitution Day.

B (20:19)

Thanks, Scott. Appreciate it.

A (20:21)

I'm Scott Bertram. We invite you to like us on Facebook search for Hillsdale College K12 classical education. You also can follow us on Instagram hillsdalek12. That's hillsdalek12 on Instagram. Thank you for listening to The Hillsdale College K12 classical education podcast, part of the Hillsdale College College Podcast Network. More at Podcast Hillsdale Edu or wherever you get your audio.