Scott Bertram (2:18)

Talking today about what it's like to.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (2:20)

Govern a Hillsdale College member school. So you are one of the founders of Cincinnati Classical Academy. What would inspire someone, and you in particular, to spearhead this kind of effort that takes a lot of time and a lot of energy?

Dr. Jed Hartings (2:37)

Yeah. Well, Scott, at the core, I believe what classical educators believe, which is that there's a general body of knowledge that should be the possession of all human beings. And that's an even more particular body of knowledge for us as Americans that has a 2, 500 year history that helps us put modern life into context. It helps us to have wisdom, to understand why we do the things that we do in our society, how we came to be here, and where we should be going both as individuals and As a society. And what education is essentially is passing on that knowledge, our culture, to the next generation. And I came to realize that there are very few schools or universities that were doing this. So much essential learning and subject matters have been stripped From K through 12 and even university curricula schools today offer, and universities offer a lot of electives and made up subjects. It's sort of a choose your own adventure in order to attract students. And education has just become commoditized in today's world, reduced to checklists and bureaucracy and endowment figures. And once you see this, once you really come to understand the drift that's happened over over generations, you can't unsee it. And then you have no choice but to do something about it.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (4:01)

When did Cincinnati Classical Academy open?

Dr. Jed Hartings (4:04)

So we started the, the founding effort in 2019 and we opened in 2022. We're now approaching the end of our third year.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (4:11)

Okay. When this process started, did you have previous board experience or any experience with setting up something like Cincinnati Classical Academy? And is it necessary to have that kind of experience if you are looking at a board governance position at a Hillsdale K12 school?

Dr. Jed Hartings (4:31)

No, Scott, I did not have previous board experience and I hadn't set foot in a K through 12 classroom in probably 30 years. And I don't think it would be a requirement to have previous board experience. And in fact, I think it's probably better when board members don't have prior experience because I think most boards probably don't have the proper understanding of what their job is, which is to ensure that the organization fulfills its mission. Instead, I think a lot of boards think that they're in charge of the organization. They try to exercise power, they meddle into management and try to shape direction according to their own personal views and consequently they lose focus on the mission. So I think it's probably best not to have that baggage that you're bringing into the school.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (5:22)

What do you look for in a board member candidate when you're looking to build your board?

Dr. Jed Hartings (5:29)

Yeah, well, this is something I thought about a lot and my views changed a little bit. But what I think now is it's most important to look for personal qualities as opposed to being focused on particular skills. We look for humility, discernment, judgment, self control, conscientiousness, respect, discipline. These are the essential characteristics that I think that you really can't compromise someone who knows how to take care of something. And beyond that, it's good to find people who are willing to work, who are eager to learn, who have professional experience and who have the time and interest to devote.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (6:13)

So that process, just a little bit, are you seeking people and approaching people and saying, hey, would you like to be a part of our board? Is there a process that works the other way? Like resumes? You're combing through people who have said, I'd like to help you. How does that generally work?

Dr. Jed Hartings (6:31)

The board and the school leadership is generally always has their radar out, looking, hearing, talking with people with board candidacy on their mind. Would you be the right fit, the right kind of person to do this? And then we go ahead and once we've found someone, we talk about that, we talk with the individual and then carry things forward. But no, there's not a call for applications, so to speak.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (7:01)

Yeah. So Cincinnati Classical is now finishing third year of operation. How are things going?

Scott Bertram (7:10)

How did you think things were going to go and how have things actually transpired?

Dr. Jed Hartings (7:15)

It's exceeded all my expectations. I mean, honestly, I'm blown away at how the school has blossomed, matured, grown. It's going incredibly well. We've been fully enrolled since the very beginning with a healthy and steady wait list of some 400 students. And we've been growing at about 30% each year, so that we've now doubled our population. We opened with 450 and we're expecting 950 students this fall when we had our first high school class, which is really exciting. What's been really gratifying is that we've had a student retention rate that's in the upper 90 percentile, I mean, 99%, I think, this year. And I think that speaks just volumes for the health and the success of the school.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (8:03)

Any unexpected challenges that you've come across in these three years or so?

Dr. Jed Hartings (8:09)

The greatest challenges that we've had have been finances and facilities, really. We had to look for over, especially to accommodate the rapid growth, you know, 50% student growth. And we had to look at over 30 different properties over these five years to find a campus that's large enough and centrally located to accommodate the school. And then being able to afford that kind of a campus, I mean, you're talking 20 acres, you're talking 150,000 square feet, feet of classroom space that's centrally located in a metropolitan area. It's pretty tough nut to crack, especially on a charter school budget.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (8:52)

I've talked to people from the outside who haven't gone through the process on that particular topic, and I don't know if it's universal, but people tend to.

Scott Bertram (9:00)

Think that it's easier than it is. Well, there must be a lot of.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (9:05)

Empty buildings or there might be a lot of empty schools that have closed. And it should be easy to find.

Scott Bertram (9:10)

A place to set this up.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (9:11)

And of course, everyone who's gone through it knows that's not the case. What are kind of those tricky points to find a place to call home?

Dr. Jed Hartings (9:19)

Well, if I did it again, I would never look in an area that's not already zoned for a school.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (9:25)

Zoning. Yes.

Dr. Jed Hartings (9:26)

Zoning is the biggest thing because if you need rezoning, then you need public hearings. If you need public hearings, then you have teachers unions and district superintendents coming out to speak against you because you're. They're opposed to school Choice.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (9:43)

Talking with Dr. Jed Hartings, he is founder and current board chair of Cincinnati Classical Academy about what it's like to govern a Hillsdale College member school. What's changed in terms of governance from when you were in the planning stages, the plotting stages, to present where the school's now closing out its third year? How does that board's role change from a founding board to a governance board?

Dr. Jed Hartings (10:11)

Honestly, I think not too much has changed for us because we were fortunate enough to be able to hire our headmaster, our school leader, a year in advance of opening. He was in charge of all the particulars of the school from the very beginning. In a sense, he was part of the founding board, and we could differentiate that function between school management and governance kind of from the very beginning. So, you know, apart from the school name and the Latin motto, there is really isn't much that we didn't put on the plate of the headmaster from the very beginning.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (10:49)

Is there a difference in the way the governing board does its job at a Hillsdale K12 charter school compared to a traditional public school board? Similarities, differences, perhaps in the way those two entities would operate?

Dr. Jed Hartings (11:04)

Yeah, probably. Probably they're quite different. I don't know exactly because I've only ever witnessed a handful of district school board meetings. Again, I don't have that history, but the stereotype I have in my head is that a district school board is debating what books to have in the library, what sports to have, whether to hire more teachers for this or that. All things that, by our philosophy and by Hillsdale's recommended governance philosophy, these are the responsibilities of the school leader and not of the board. So we don't consider them items for the board to consider.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (11:42)

How does the Hillsdale College K12 education office help to support your board at Cincinnati Classical and other member school boards.

Dr. Jed Hartings (11:51)

In the network I think really the most important way that they support the board is in the ways that they support the school itself. With the jobs fair on site assessments and coaching, professional development that they provide here at the college. The network of master teachers that our teachers can collaborate with. Hillsdale K12 office is very serious about helping schools achieve excellence in classical methods. And that's the greatest help that the board could possibly ask for because we have less to worry about.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (12:25)

Sure.

Scott Bertram (12:26)

What have been some of the biggest.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (12:28)

Challenges that you faced as a board at Cincinnati Classical?

Dr. Jed Hartings (12:32)

Yeah, again, that's the. It's been finding the facilities and the finances to accommodate the school's growth. And that's been a journey that's really only come to a conclusion in the past six months, where last fall we finally did close on the purchase of enough property and facility to accommodate eventually 1300 students across all K through 12 grade levels. And that that construction and remodeling are being completed now. So this fall we'll be able to move into our permanent home. And on the finance side, we've also sort of come to some, some, some good resolutions as well. We were able to secure a $2 million charter school program grant. And we also have a very favorable political climate in Ohio and they have passed some provisions to help close the, the funding gap with the district schools. So with those boosts, we would definitely not be where we are today. It would have been impossible.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (13:35)

We've mentioned a few highlights along the way. Has there been anything that you consider to be the most rewarding part of this process?

Dr. Jed Hartings (13:44)

Yeah, the most rewarding part by far is just simply the people seeing the community that has grown up, maybe a few thousand people, which is an amazing number to contemplate, who are now associated with this school either giving or receiving the gift of a rigorous American classical education. Now, I mean, what can be more rewarding than that? I had no idea that there would be so much demand or that there would be so many people capable and eager to deliver this type of education at such a high level of excellence.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (14:20)

You mentioned the growth that Cincinnati Classical has seen from 450 to now 900 plus a waiting list of 400 or so. How does that happen? Is the board involved in making people aware of this opportunity for students in the area? Word of mouth. How have you seen this growth happen?

Dr. Jed Hartings (14:40)

Well, we first sort of set our sights on that. We decided on our school size sort of from the beginning. What kind of school are we going to have? But then it's really the headmaster producing a beautiful and excellent product. And that starts, I mean, with something as simple as a beautiful website, with exposing and publishing our curriculum, our aims, our objectives in a level of detail that is almost impossible to find at any other school. Why are we not hiding our curriculum? Well, for obvious reasons, we're extremely proud of it because it's the love for the curriculum that drives our work and people are drawn to it.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (15:24)

Your board chair of Cincinnati Classical Academy. Just what's the difference between you being a board chair and just a member of the board? What additional responsibilities or work do you do?

Dr. Jed Hartings (15:36)

Well, I think in the leadership of a Hillsdale Classical school, and so critical for the success of the school is the headmaster and the board chair and having consistency in those two positions. And then it's not only those two positions, but also their relationship with each other. They've got to be working together. So as board chair, you're setting the agenda. You're conducting the informal communications with the headmaster and sort of coordinating that role. You're thinking about the things that threats and ambitions for way down the road into the future. And then that long term vision helps you set your agenda just for something as simple as the next board meeting. So you're deciding what is proper, most prudent for the board to be deliberating and discussing.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (16:36)

Now, Dr. Jed Hartings is founder and current board chair of Cincinnati Classical Academy in Cincinnati, Ohio, as we talk about what it's like to govern a Hillsdale College Member School. Dr. Hartings, thanks so much for joining us here on the Hillsdale College K12 Classical Education Podcast.

Dr. Jed Hartings (16:54)

Always a pleasure to be here. Thank you.

Scott Bertram (16:56)

I'm Scott Bertram. We invite you to like us on Facebook search for Hillsdale College K12 classical education. You also can follow us on Instagram hillsdalek12. That's hillsdalek12 on Instagram. Thank you for listening to The Hillsdale College K12 classical education podcast, part of the Hillsdale College Podcast Network. More at Podcast Hillsdale Edu or wherever.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (17:26)

You get your audio.