← Hillsdale College K-12 Classical Education Podcast
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- [00:01]
A
On the new episode of the Larry Arn Show, Hillsdale College President Larry P. Arn sits down with pastor, professor and author Kevin DeYoung for a one on one conversation. He saw that you might say reason and revelation coming together in the American founding and that they didn't have to be yet and that there was this groundwork. And it's interesting you talk about in the Hillsdale founding documents because Witherspoon gives a famous sermon in May 1776 leading to the the independence, and he says that very civil liberty and religious liberty have always stood or fallen together. Listen to this exclusive interview with Kevin DeYoung right now, only available on the Larry Arn Show. Find it on the Hillsdale College Podcast Network at podcast hillsdale.edu also at Apple Podcasts Spotify and YouTube and subscribe to receive new episodes delivered right to your device. That's podcast Hillsdale. Edu welcome to the Hillsdale College K12 classical education podcast, bringing you insight into classical education and its unique emphasis on human virtue and moral character, responsible citizenship, content, rich curricula and teacher led classrooms. Now your host, Scott Bertram. Thanks for listening. The Hillsdale College K12 Classical Education Podcast is part of the Hillsdale College Podcast Network. More episodes at podcast hillsdale.edu or wherever you get your audio. You also can find more information on topics and ideas discussed on this show at our website k12 hillsdale.edu. thanks for listening. We're joined by Stephen Battaglia. He is assistant Headmaster for Upper school at Seven Oaks Classical School in Ellettsville, Indiana. Stephen, thanks so much for joining us.
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B
Yeah, thank you Scott for having me on. I really enjoy coming on here and talking with you.
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A
And you can find more about Seven Oaks at sevenoaksclassical.org Stephen joins us today to talk about inspiring teachers to inspire students. Students. Why should school leaders like yourself as an assistant headmaster prioritize inspiring teachers?
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B
It's good. Yeah. You wonder when you think about school leadership, particularly heads of school, there's so much on the priority list. You name it, right? Your board relations, your hiring teachers, your facilities, your curriculum, invitation, budgets and all these different things. You name it and header schools are added. And so the question really is, you're right, why prioritize particular inspiring teachers? Right. It could almost fall to the wayside. I think part of it is dealing with this idea that, you know, kind of avoiding the alternatives. Right. In the sense of. Right. If you don't have inspirational teachers in the absence of that, it's really difficult to deliver the curriculum. Hillsdale K12 office works very diligently in putting together a curriculum in such a way that is one that is life giving. And without an inspirational teacher, it can be really hard, really difficult to bring it to life. I think also as well, you have instances where if you don't have inspirational teachers, if you're not prioritizing it, you really begin to set a cultural standard for your school as a head of school that really, really sets you up in maybe a negative way or presents a sort of, as I would call it, the germ effect, where you have this sort of tendency to kind of like pass along maybe some animosity or something like that, that that kind of can. Can kind of creep in if that occurs. And then I think as well, you know, in the absence of a. If you don't prioritize it and it's not really on the. On the slate for a head of school, you kind of leave it up to chance and then it kind of just makes its own way. And you as a head of school really are responsible for the sort of cultural expectations that you're setting. So it really, it really can be something that you think is not a significant deal, but it really should, it really should be considered by heads of school.
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A
So what makes a teacher inspirational? Where are we trying to point our teachers toward?
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B
Yes, it's an interesting thing because you almost have to think in some ways on the front end. And I would say, I think part of what draws teachers into being inspirational is what kind of makes them come to education to begin with and the sort of thing. You only discover this as a head of school if in the hiring process. And it really is going to be about identifying teachers who have a sort of a strength of will, who have an interest in the curriculum, who are interested learning outside of what they knew to be their sort of quote, unquote subject expertise. I think it also involves collegiality. Are you able to identify particular teachers, individuals who can really go along, get along well with others? And I think what makes into being an inspiring teacher as well is, is their humility, their ability to be coached. I think those sort of things play into the fact of they're able to lead particular students in a way that, yeah, really draws from the goodwill of the curriculum in inspiring ways.
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A
How do you know when you have a teacher inside your school who has been inspirational and who inspired your students?
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B
Yeah, it would be nice, right, if you had everything like a magic ball, right. Identify, maybe show you the way.
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A
Maybe a bell would ring.
- [06:26]
B
Yeah, that's right. That's right. That's right. Yeah. I, you know, I think honestly it's, you know, one of the, one of the things that headed schools are responsible for is kind of being, you know, not just in this high office away from their teachers, but kind of be boots on the ground, right, to kind of be involved in their school community, not just in classrooms, but in enough way, right. In a measured way, to be surrounded by their faculty. And so I think one way is, you know, a good litmus test is being involved in the classroom of seeing, you know, what, what's going on and observing teachers in a way, you know, not to kind of be involved in a way to kind of have you got your moment? Like, I'm being there, I'm watching you. But to enjoy to sit in and to experience class as if you were a student, I think as well, is, you know, one way is just kind of getting a sense, putting your finger on the sort of pulse of the, of the community of teachers that you have built. Are you getting a sense from your teachers that things are working well together? Do you get a sense that teachers have a good rapport with one another, enjoy doing the good work that they're doing, enjoy fulfilling the mission of the school? I think those really play into it. And I think as well, you know, I think head of school has got to be discerning on this one. But just get a sense from the community at large, the parent community. What's the sort of, you know, what's the sort of sense about, you know, what, what are particular, you know, general anticipations of the school? Is there excitement surrounding school? Are parents, you know, ones that are asking questions, these sort of things, I think those really, you know, each one is a varying degree, right, of how a school should balance it, but each one can be sort of signs to, or windows into what that looks like at your particular school.
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A
What resources are at the school teacher's disposal to help them in their efforts to inspire students. And then maybe from your end too, what resources are at the school leader's disposal to also inspire those teachers?
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B
Yes, I, I think. Right. You know, obviously we're here with the like as a Hillsdale and, and the K12 office does so much work to be thinking about, you know, what kind of resources, whether it be videos to watch or guidance documents to read over in terms of what it looks like for heads of schools or even teachers to be thinking about. How do I teach this particular subject, you know, a little bit more in a way that, you know, is, is inviting to students or you know, what is some good practical advice to deal with a particular teacher that really would bump this teacher up in terms of, you know, just their sort of disposition that may lead to them being more inspirational, I think is as well. I think it also involves being storytellers. You know, classical education is such that the movement is one in which it's allowing us to be storytellers. It's such an integral part, a keystone, if you will, of classical education is this revitalization of being storytellers. And I think that's important for teachers to recognize that yes, you have objectives to accomplish, yes, you have evaluations to make assessments of your students. But don't forget the enjoyable parts of being storytellers, of being able to incorporate a lively story in a way that I think captures students imaginations. And then for school leaders, I think that the same is true for them. I think resources for them are being able to find stories that really hone into the work of education or the work of. Or what it means to be human ones that capture really students or excuse me, teachers, imagination. So, so for example, we've at my particular school at Seven Oaks, we've done, you know, short stories. We've gathered teachers around particular short stories this, this year and one that we're reading through, ones that we've read through things like Hawthorne that really ask the sort of questions that have engaged faculty in an interesting way that you know, I think, you know, you don't have to like poll them at the end to say, okay, who felt inspired after this reading this particular story, right? That'd be silly. But you could see it on their faces and you could see it in lunchtime after it, you know, them continuing the conversation. So I think those, those are really good ways to. Resources to keep. Keep faculty, excuse me, teachers and heads of school especially thinking about inspiring.
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A
Talking about Stephen Battaglia. He is Seven Oaks Classical School's assistant headmaster for upper school. On inspiring teachers to inspire students. The work is hard to get them to that point. And then the school year ends and begins and ends and begins. And I feel, feel there could be an inclination at times to lose that inspiration as each year begins and ends. How do you work to keep that teacher inspired year in and year out?
- [11:41]
B
That's so. That's so good. And I think that is. That's really like you're putting your finger on Scott, the sort of trick of the right. The hard thing, right. It's easy when you're in the moment, sort of like, you know, same Question could be asked of like, how do you, like, win the super bowl or the championship and then get excited for the next season? You know, something like that. And I think it, it is one way, in a practical way for head of schools to be thinking about is just to be curious with your teachers of whether it's assigning it through you yourself is at a school or department chairs or some other matter, but assigning some kind of reading or some kind of assignment in such a way, and that, that's not onerous, but one in which that keeps teachers involved. I think another way is just building excitement for the, for the year. I think teachers really find excitement or inspiration even through heads of school that are really caught the vision of the school, are really determined, continue to think about the mission, and then really reveal that to teachers in such a way that they see that growth is happening and they're seeking their greater good. And so I think when you come back in August, if you're a teacher and you're seeing that your head of school has put together measures to build excitement, whether it be, you know, renovations of the building or whether it be, hey, let's, let's look at this particular text this year, or here's what I'd like to charge you with, motivate you with considering this year. I think that really resonates with a lot of teachers and it sees their work beyond just the sort of mundane work of education that actually sees that they're tied to the mission and this is worthy of their time. And it, you know, kind of referencing those sort of things that you set the year up with, especially like you're getting at from the summer where a lot of that can be extinguished or diminished. I think kind of building that excitement in terms of your, the sort of programming or the things that are happening in the life of the school, being open and honest and sharing that with as a head of school year faculty, I think that goes a long way.
- [13:56]
A
If you work hard and can build this team, this culture of inspired teachers at an institution, what kind of effect does that have on staff members, students, the whole school community when they see the inspired teachers working inside a place like Seven Oaks, I think it just.
- [14:16]
B
Makes it, it makes it fun, honestly. I think it makes it more exciting to be part of something, you know, that, you know, like any sports team you may be part of or any sort of organization that you're joined in, it makes it exciting. You see the sort of thing, the work that you're doing has value and it gathers people Around a common cause. I mean, if you think about it like a city, like a school, like a. Like a city community, a civic community, you see everyone kind of more carefully pulling together, serving one another in such a way. And I think that is really the testament when you see others serving and loving one another in ways that you haven't before that a testament that the way that you've inspired as a head of school, your teachers in your community is. Is really catching on. I think it's, you know, I think it is true that it's possible to have a bad school with inspired teachers, but I. I think it's the same as the opposite is true. It's impossible to have a good school without inspiring teachers. And so I think that's. I think that's one of the maybe overlooked, but a key ingredient to having an excellent school is this sort of sense that your teachers are inspired. Excuse me. And that you're seeing that through the sort of way in which they approach their work. I think that's a really strong testament.
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A
The topic inspiring teachers to inspire students. And so I thought back a little bit to those teachers who perhaps did the most to inspire me along my educational journey. And not across the board, but many of them, many of them did things slightly differently. They had a unique perspective or a different way of teaching or working with the students. Is that something in particular that can.
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B
Be.
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A
A magic trick to inspire students? Is that something that you talk with teachers about to sort of be themselves and to be someone who can inspire students?
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B
I'm so glad you mentioned that, because when I think about this, I think about, you know, you're right. What are, what are the sort of ways in which. What was the sort of thing that, you know, inspired me from, you know, the inspirational teachers? And, you know, you're right, like, there was never one thing, you know, that one person did that could be true of everyone. But the reality was, at least in my experience, and sounds like very similar to you. They were, you know, good people who were genuine, who were sincere and loved the sort of work that they did. And I think that is. That is why I think it's so true when you think about, as a head of school, who you hire is just so important in the sense of really launching this idea of inspiring teachers or having inspiring teachers because they really are in a position to set the tone in the way you really want to be thinking about someone who can teach, who can operate a classroom, who has a disposition that is sincere and genuine and one in which they feel comfortable in being who they are and knowing that that is good. Now, I will say as well that there is always the sort of one that, you know, the sort of old flare sort of mentality where it is you kind of get a wild card sometimes. And I think that also works too. I think there is those that, you know, just, you know, may not just be the sort of, you know, sort of, you know, measuring stake, all this sort of time that measures up to what the expectation is, but there is the one little oddball out that actually I think can be really good for a school culture and a faculty culture that really works well, you know, so far as it's thought through carefully and that sort of thing.
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A
You alluded to this a little bit earlier, but for a school and institution that does not have inspiring teachers, what problems can arise?
- [18:31]
B
Yeah, it's really, I think one of the aspects of it that really is significant is, you know, you know, my experience being with in schools and being in leadership positions is that, you know, if they're not particularly inspired, that can be contagious. Right. And so, you know, one thing that you could find particularly as a problem is that, you know, uninspired teachers, the uninspirational spirit, will kind of, I think, really trickle through a faculty. And not always. Right. There's always that sort of thing that can combat it. But I think that's a real danger. I think, as well, like I said, I think before, it's just this idea of, you know, if it's not you directing the course, if you don't have your hands on the reins, so to speak, teachers will look for inspiration in other ways. And. Right. It could be for good or for bad. What will be true is that you, as the head of school won't necessarily. You'll be working to kind of pull back the reins if you let off too loose. And, you know, that presents particularly its own challenges. You know, one thing I think it's helpful to say here, and I think it is considered for head of schools, is to really consider that, you know, I think one kind of measure head of schools may fall into in terms of this idea of inspiring teachers is to think that, you know, one particular solution is that, you know, paying teachers more will necessarily translate into inspiration. All of a sudden, in my experience, just that's probably a cautious step to take and not necessarily put all the chips in on that particular aspect. I think there's maybe immediate effect that may happen, but I think as a head of school, it kind of presents you for other challenges.
- [20:24]
A
Stephen let's end here, which is when you are looking for hiring teachers, looking for teachers to hire, what kind of qualities do you look for that perhaps indicate, even if that teacher is not where they can be, that they can reach a level where they become an inspiring teacher? What qualities do you want to see present that's good?
- [20:45]
B
I think as a head of school, you want to see a sort of a coachability, a humility. Is the teacher willing to kind of listen to feedback? And I really do think you can get that through an interview process or even just talking to them. I think as well, there's a sort of strength of will, right? Do they have the sort of what it takes to endure the long year of a school year and you're, you know, the sort of question about, you know, what happens when they have that brief reprieve in the summertime and coming back, how do you keep them going? I think a strength of will really matters in that particular aspect. And, you know, are they joyful, are they versatile? Can they kind of do different things in that particular way in zealogy? I think as well, you know, when you're thinking about as a school leader, head of school, the hiring of a teacher, I think the proof in the pudding will be really the demo lesson. So having teachers really get in the classroom, get their feet wet, see how they are in that in particular environment. And they're what I would encourage head of schools to be looking for, the sort of dynamism things. Are they dynamic within their lesson? Do they have creativity with their lesson? Even if it's a little bit outside of what you would maybe do? Do you see the creativity come out? And I think the point that you made is probably the strongest, Scott, and that is the sincerity. Are you getting a real representation, do you think, of the teacher themselves?
- [22:17]
A
Stephen Battaglia is assistant headmaster for upper School at Seven Oaks Classical School in Ellettsville, Indiana. More@sevenoaksclassical.org and we talked about inspiring teachers to inspire students. Stephen, thank you so much for joining us here on the Hillsdale College K12 Classical Education Podcast.
- [22:37]
B
Scott, it was a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me on.
- [22:40]
A
I'm Scott Bertram. We invite you to like us on Facebook. Search for Hillsdale College K12 classical education. You also can follow us on Instagram hillsdalek12. That's hillsdalek12 on Instagram. Thank you for listening to The Hillsdale College K12 classical education podcast, part of the Hillsdale College Podcast Network. More at podcast Hillsdale. Edu or wherever you get your audio.