Episode Summary

The Golden Thread & Teaching the Western Tradition

Podcast: Hillsdale College K-12 Classical Education Podcast
Date: February 16, 2026
Guests: Dr. Kathleen O’Toole (Associate VP for K-12 Education) & James Hankins (Professor of History, co-author of "The Golden Thread: A History of the Western Tradition", with Alan Gelzo)
Host: Scott Bertram
Duration: ~56 minutes

Episode Overview

This episode delves into the necessity and value of teaching the Western tradition in K-12 education, centered on the new two-volume history text, The Golden Thread: A History of the Western Tradition. James Hankins discusses the genesis, aims, and themes of the book, and both guests explore the role of classical education in forming character, citizenship, and a sense of gratitude for cultural inheritance. The conversation also addresses concepts of civilization and barbarism, the proper disposition toward the past, the dangers of progressivism and “chronological snobbery,” and ways to cultivate wisdom in young people.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Why Teach the Western Tradition?

[03:33–11:47]

• Western tradition is not a single civilization but a series of “nested civilizations,” with each new era building upon the previous, much like Russian dolls.
• The Greeks are highlighted as the foundational civilization, whose contributions in politics, philosophy, mathematics, arts, and literature are unparalleled.
• The Romans consciously adopted and adapted Greek culture, laying the groundwork for Greco-Roman civilization.
• Successive societies—barbarian kingdoms, Charlemagne’s Carolingian Empire, the medieval “renaissances”, the Renaissance proper—preserved, revived, and reinterpreted classical heritage.
• Western culture’s ability to recognize and uphold valuable elements from conquered or prior cultures is rare in world history, contrasting with civilizations like the Khmer Empire, about which little survives due to lack of succession.
• Quote:

  “We should not be the generation that breaks the golden thread... that's why I so love the classical education movement.”
  —James Hankins ([10:37])

2. Civilization vs. Barbarism

[11:47–16:29]

• Civilization: Summed up as “the secure possession of good things and the ability to pass them down” (Roger Scruton’s definition). Hankins prefers to define civilization functionally, as “something that civilizes.”
• Barbarism: Not a mere label for ‘the other,’ but any force or behavior—be it technological, political, or social—that damages human bonds, undermines virtue, and makes us behave worse.
• Contemporary examples of “barbarism” include careless speech, disregard of temperance, and a culture of disruption for its own sake (particularly in technology).
• Quote:

  “Barbarism comes in all shapes. We have many barbarians among us, people who are trying to make us worse, who usually for political gain or for wealth of some kind... I'm thinking of technology here in particular.”
  —James Hankins ([13:55])

3. Disruption, Change, and the Role of Tradition

[16:29–19:56]

• The modern West (especially America) is future-oriented, tending to see change and disruption as inherently positive.
• The Founding Fathers valued innovation rooted in tradition, deeply versed in Greek, Roman and European history—this background enabled the creation of enduring institutions.
• Contemporary education’s shift from Western Civ to superficial global history has weakened students’ sense of narrative and purpose.
• Quote:

  “If you want to do something new, you have to be anchored in the old. If you want to do something good that's new, if you want to really reform and not just change, you have to pay attention to the past.”
  —James Hankins ([16:53])

4. The Mission of The Golden Thread and New Teaching Resources

[19:56–21:15]

• The Golden Thread is designed for classical educators, including robust teacher’s guides adaptable for public, private, or homeschooling settings—available via Hillsdale’s website.
• The goal is not just transmission of information, but formation of civilization.

5. Civilizing the Young: Home and School

[21:15–27:32]

• The process of becoming civilized begins with the family—teaching respect, sharing, basic decency—but is completed and reinforced by schools.
• The aim is not only workforce preparation but cultural and civilizational formation: knowledge of art, architecture, literature, and historical traditions, especially those originating in Greece and Rome.
• Teaching about physical environments (e.g., Gothic cathedrals) aids in connecting children tangibly to the Western tradition.
• Quote:

  “What you're trying to do is to create young citizens of a country that value the country's traditions. ... They need a higher form of civilization also in high schools.”
  —James Hankins ([22:05])

6. Classical Architecture and Beauty

[27:32–30:02]

• Classical architecture is a living tradition and a teaching tool—students learn history, symbolism, and the power of beauty.
• The return to craftsmanship and tradition in architecture parallels the revival of classical modes in education.
• Quote:

  “You feel different when you are entering a building that was designed according to classical principles, human scale.”
  —Scott Bertram ([28:56])

7. Proper and Improper Pride in Civilization

[30:02–35:15]

• Civilizational pride should be rooted in gratitude, loyalty, and love for what is genuinely good, without blind admiration or denial of past faults.
• Historical education, properly conducted, is the antidote to fanaticism, black-and-white thinking, and the tendency to judge the past solely by present values.
• Quote:

  “Proper pride goes together with gratitude, loyalty, and love... collective pride in our civilization's accomplishments are necessary to preserve them.”
  —James Hankins ([31:01])
  “History, for me, is the antidote to fanaticism.”
  —James Hankins ([34:45])

8. Wisdom, Mental Health, and Classical Learning

[35:15–38:37]

• Referencing Jonathan Haidt and the positive psychology movement: classical educators anticipated psychological insights centuries ago, emphasizing reason, virtue, and self-possession as the keys to "mental health" and integrity.

9. Modernity: Achievement and Cautions

[38:37–47:16]

• Modernity is the West’s greatest achievement in material terms (scientific and economic advancements), but is often tainted by arrogance—illusion of self-sufficiency and contempt for the past (“chronological snobbery,” as C.S. Lewis termed it).
• Hankins warns against the progressive narrative that severing ties to the past results in cultural and moral improvement.
• The need is for “balance between tradition and innovation,” as exemplified by successful eras like the Italian Renaissance and the Enlightenment.
• Studying Western civilization offers a common ground in pluralistic societies and is an effective tool for assimilation and national unity, especially for new Americans.

10. Cultivating Contemplation, Depth, and True Learning

[49:20–55:25]

• True education eschews shortcuts; wisdom cannot be acquired by mere information transfer or digital efficiency.
• Reading, especially physical books, allows for depth, reflection, and the formation of convictions and character—contrasting with the constant distraction and superficiality of digital life.
• Quote:

  “Information is not fact, and fact is not knowledge, and knowledge is not wisdom. But you can't have wisdom without information, facts, and knowledge. So it's a lot of work to get to wisdom.”
  —Paul Oskar Kristeller (quoted by Hankins, [54:32])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “We should not be the generation that breaks the golden thread, which is my fear. And that's why I so love the classical education movement.”
  —James Hankins ([10:37])

• “Barbarism comes in all shapes. We have many barbarians among us, people who are trying to make us worse... I'm thinking of technology here in particular.”
  —James Hankins ([13:55])

• “If you want to do something good that's new... you have to pay attention to the past.”
  —James Hankins ([16:53])

• “History, for me, is the antidote to fanaticism, that to be a fanatic you have to be closed off to anything outside the message of your own sect... but you can't do that if you have a historical education.”
  —James Hankins ([34:45])

• “Information is not fact, and fact is not knowledge, and knowledge is not wisdom. But you can't have wisdom without information, facts, and knowledge.”
  —Paul Oskar Kristeller, via Hankins ([54:32])

• “You feel different when you are entering a building that was designed according to classical principles, human scale.”
  —Scott Bertram ([28:56])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:33] Hankins on why the Western tradition should be central to education
• [11:47] Defining “civilization” and “barbarism”
• [16:29] On the American tendency to idolize disruption and change
• [21:15] The role of the family and school in civilizing children
• [27:32] The value of teaching classical architecture
• [30:02] Proper vs. improper pride in one’s civilization
• [35:15] History and classical learning as foundations of psychological health
• [38:37] Modernity as achievement and danger; dangers of progressive history
• [49:20] On the necessity of slow, thoughtful reading for true learning
• [54:32] Distinguishing information, fact, knowledge, and wisdom

Tone and Style

The conversation is learned yet accessible, blending scholarly references and anecdotes with practical guidance. Hankins is eloquent and passionate about the subject, expressing gratitude to the classical education community and concern over the loss of civilizational memory.

Takeaways for Listeners

• The Golden Thread aims to restore coherent, meaningful, and inspiring historical study to K-12 classrooms and homeschooling families.
• Classical education is not antiquarian but a vital means of forming character, virtue, and citizenship—an antidote to both cynicism and fanaticism.
• True learning requires both substance and contemplation; no shortcut can substitute for the slow cultivation of wisdom.
• Understanding, appreciating, and critically engaging with Western tradition creates a foundation for personal growth, cultural gratitude, and communal unity.