← Hillsdale College K-12 Classical Education Podcast
Hillsdale College K-12 Classical Education Podcast
Success in Teaching Modern Language in Classical Schools
00:24:17
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A
This show is a part of the Hillsdale College Podcast Network. If you like what you hear, please subscribe to your favorite. You'll get brand new episodes of all your favorite shows sent right to your device and you'll help us know that you're out there listening. Never miss another episode by going to podcast hillsdale.edu subscribe. That's podcast hillsdale edu subscribe or click the Follow or Subscribe button on Apple podcasts, Spotify or YouTube.
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Welcome to The Hillsdale College K12 classical education podcast, bringing you insight into classical education and its unique emphasis on human virtue and moral character, responsible citizenship, content, rich curricula and teacher led classrooms. Now your host, Scott Bertram.
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Thanks for listening. The Hillsdale College K12 Classical Education Podcast is part of the Hillsdale College Podcast Network. More episodes at podcast hillsdale.edu or wherever you get your audio. You also can find more information on topics and ideas discussed on this show at our website, k12 hillsdale.edu. we're joined by Diana Kinzer. She's a French teacher from fifth grade through high school at Seven Oaks Classical School in Ellettsville, Indiana, also a master lead teacher for Hillsdale's K12 office. Diana, thanks so much for joining us.
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Thank you so much. I'm really excited to be here.
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C
We're talking today about foreign language at a classical school. Why would you advocate for studying a modern foreign language? Why is it a part of our classical curriculum at all?
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Okay, that's a great question and I think oftentimes parents want to know this as well. I think first of all, something that modern foreign language can offer is the ability for students to actually do use a skill to be able to go out into the world and then interact with other speakers of the language. I mean, I think that's the most obvious reason, I think beyond that, at a classical school, I think learning a foreign language requires a lot of the virtues that we that we talk about, including courage and perseverance and humility. As they are taking on the rigorous process of actually learning a language, a lot of times they feel overwhelmed because they are being asked to do something that is very taxing for the brain, which is to develop this skill to be able to communicate in a language other than English. Which for those of you who have not taken a foreign language, or at least not in a long time, it's definitely a brain workout. And it's easy. It's easy for kids to feel overwhelmed and just kind of want to throw up their hands and give up. But we persevere we push them forward. We try to make it attainable through smaller goals, so it does the job of helping them learn virtue. And personally, what I feel like, though it is a tool, I think it's also a means of teaching compassion, and it gives us a deeper understanding of the human experience when we're learning about other cultures that use another language, because a language is a window into how other people think. And I think, especially when we're teaching a modern foreign language with younger children, especially here, we start in fifth grade. It's the prime time for kids to be thinking about and comparing their lives to lives of other. Other students and other places in the world and just begin to understand that just because someone is doing something differently doesn't make them wrong or bad necessarily. And so foreign language is just a great way to start getting that muscle warmed up and allowing them to have the experience of. Even down to the level of the word, to. To be able to say, oh, we say it like this, but they say it like that. I wonder what that says about how they think about this word or this idea. And so it's a great window into helping understand other cultures and therefore develop compassion.
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C
You're a French teacher. How would you say that French contributes to the formation of the whole student, specifically?
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B
Oh, that is a. Okay, that is a good question. French in particular. So my first thought is to think about how intertwined our American history and our French history are. And I think, first of all, students who are learning their Western heritage, I feel like French, or learning. Learning history through a French lens, also gives them more insight into how. How these two are related and therefore just giving them a deeper understanding overall of history. French, in particular, is also a big part of our life and our culture, sometimes in ways that aren't exactly the same in French culture, but that we've adopted somehow, like French fries, for example. I mean, French fries are not necessarily French, though they do have French fries. But more deeply than that, there's been a craze for a long time about Paris, and everyone wants to go to Paris, and they all want to learn about the Eiffel Tower and macaron and, you know, all the iconic symbols. So I think teaching French kind of gives them a. It helps us set the record straight and also help them appreciate some of these symbols that we've incorporated into our lives, into our daily lives. And I think to our, you know, some of the great works of art, like Impressionism as a movement, was a French movement. And I think that, you know, the appreciation of art is part of how we develop and we understand what is beautiful. And so giving them more insight into what was going on in the minds of these artists and why this movement became a movement helps touch at that. At that idea of what is beauty which affects the human experience. I'm sure there's likely more that I could say. These are the things that are coming to mind.
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C
But tell us about the French track at Seven Oaks Classical School. How many years? It starts in fifth grade, as you mentioned previously. How long has the program been in place? What does it look like?
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B
Okay, so I have been here for five years, and since I have been here, we have had French starting in fifth grade all the way up through high school. So fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, and then high school. 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th. In fifth through eighth grade, it is required. So all students have to take French, and once they hit high school, it becomes an elective at that point. I know before I came, there was also French in fourth grade. I believe Mrs. James taught French in fourth grade. And I'm not sure beyond that, but. But it has been a subject that our headmaster doctorship has been in support of and definitely encourages our program to grow.
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C
How many. What kinds of students continue into the. Into the optional portion, past the required portion of this track?
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B
I would say, well, certainly the most obvious students who are already pretty enthusiastic about French. I think we also end up with students who are just. They really love language because they. A lot of these students are having. If they are continuing on in high school, they are having to take Latin back to back. And they've already been doing that all the way through middle school. But once they hit high school, they have a choice of whether or not they want to continue taking two languages at a time. And so I think that does say a lot about the students that continue on. They're students that are really dedicated to learning a language. And I also think at that point, if they've been with us from 5th through 8th grade, their skills are pretty high at that point. And I think there's a lot of students that just don't want to. Don't want to miss out on improving it and getting even better. So, yeah, I would say that those are the majority of students, the ones who are really dedicated and really enthusiastic about continuing on with the French language.
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C
How would you define what success looks like for most students in a classical French classroom? What do you want to see them achieve?
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B
I think success sometimes is. It feels a little intangible in foreign language because we have students that they are really good listeners, they can understand really well, but they won't necessarily be able to show by speaking the language. And then we do have students who excel in speaking. And then of course, we have reading and writing. And there are students who may or may not excel in some of those. So I think success would be. Or a successful student demonstrates that they have a grasp on the language and they are able to use the language as a means to an end in some form. And so it doesn't always mean that they are the best speaker or the best listener or the best writer, but it does. They are somehow demonstrating that they have a good understanding of what's happening. And that's how I know whether or not they have the. Whether or not they should move on to the next level or just whether or not they're truly with me and they're truly understanding what's going on.
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C
And what about those students who do continue into the optional portion who take French all through high school? What kind of success, what have they gone on to? Those students who end up in French three and beyond?
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Oh, right. So in French three, that's the first level where we have the most success of the classroom being completely in French. All the students are completely in French. And the instructor, it's always the goal. But it seems to be at the point of level three, students are finally matured enough and they have enough base skills that they tend to do well in a completely French speaking environment. And those students begin learning beyond kind of the more grammatical approach they're learning. They do unit studies and we do a film study, we do a field trip, we do more with the language to help them continue to apply the language, to learn something with the language, as opposed to just only learning the language itself. So those students that attain that level, I think they, many of those students go on to study in college after because at that point their skills are just. They're so high that they can enter college and test out of the 200 level classes and go straight into the 300 level classes where you're studying literature or more specific writing or that kind of thing, or history.
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C
Have you heard from former students who have gone through that French track program and how their experience affected them beyond graduation, whether it be in college or later on in life?
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B
Well, our program, our oldest students that have graduated from a level four, I think at this point are juniors in college. And so some of them I have heard from, many of them went on to take French in college and as I said, tested into the upper level classes. So it was clear their base skills were all there. I have two students that I know of that then went on to study abroad and they were able to live in France. And after talking to them, I was just so impressed with how fluid they were able to speak and just the joy that they had after all those years of studying French, being able to actually live in France for a while. So that was pretty good. That was pretty exciting to have that feedback from them. I have, I haven't asked any of the students specifically, you know what, how do you feel that your study of French has affected you after. But I do, I do think it's a good sign that a lot of students go on and continue in college. I think once you have developed a certain level, you kind of don't want to stop. And I think those are the students who want to achieve and attain more and see where their skills can take them and how far they can go with the language and you know, hopefully attain, you know, a very high native like level of the language.
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C
What makes in your mind at least a truly excellent modern foreign language teacher, especially inside a classical school.
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B
I, I've, I've had some thoughts about this question. I think, I think the, maybe the first, maybe I don't know if this is the most important, but the first thing that comes to mind is a teacher that allows the students to see their own passion for the material. So I think that's also just being a good leader of your classroom, period. But if you show your enthusiasm about it, you will gain a lot of support that way you'll get a lot of buy in from students because they will see that this skill isn't just something that they're, you're coming in and learning and then that's it. But you'll see that the teacher is excited about it and the teacher wants to know more. And so I think letting them see your passion is certainly one thing that makes, that makes for an excellent teacher, honestly, anywhere. I think in a classical school because we do focus on, we focus a lot more on virtues and we do strive for excellence. I think a teacher who uses opportunities in learning the language to discuss virtue or model virtue in learning the language and not letting their students give up or allowing them to try harder things to keep them engaged. I think too with being, or yeah, also just, you know, being at a classical school and modeling compassion. I think a good teacher or, you know, or somebody who's new to teaching has to always go back and remember what it was like to be a beginner and Whether that is, maybe you try and learn another language on your own at the same time, to just keep being reminded of what that's like, or just learning another skill on your own, because that helps you understand and get into the minds of the kids who are learning all of this for the first time. And it helps you to better be able to know where to adapt or where to change things a little bit or just slow down your pacing a little. So I think that's. Yeah, that's a marker of a good teacher.
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C
What kind of advice might you give to a new modern foreign language teacher? Maybe in particular one who is just walking into that year? One,
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I would say. I mean, ultimately, don't be too hard on yourself because it's going to feel overwhelming at first. I think from personal experience, figuring out classroom management is probably one of the most vital things you can do, because once you have figured out classroom management, you are able to be a good leader of your class. But in, in foreign language, we want them to be listening most of the time. We need them to be listening to us. And we're always giving some kind of instruction. And because we're trying to use the target language as much as we possibly can, we need to make the boundaries clear about when one person is speaking. Everyone else should be listening so that we're giving a fair advantage to everyone to be able to hear and understand instruction. And ultimately that's through classroom management and classroom discipline. I would say that that probably is key.
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C
How do you in particular keep the joy of language alive year after year? You sound like you're enjoying yourself. You sound like you're having fun. How do you continue that mood? How do you engage your classes to also feel that way about a foreign language?
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B
Well, personally, I think a lot of it is through experiences. I think we have to do the hard work of being in the class and engaging with the material in a more structured way. But in addition to that, we have to give our students experiences. I think when they are engaged in experiences, not only does that give them something to look forward to year after year, but it also allows them to put their own. Their own skin in it and to get involved with it in the way that makes sense for them. So some experiences that we do, actually just today we did our sixth grade French Revolution, because during the third quarter quarter, we learn about the French Revolution in our French classes. And then our ultimate project at the end is to. Is to do this reenactment of the French Revolution. And that's something that students even fifth Grade, they're already asking me about it and when they're going to do it. And then older students look back on it and talk about how they wish they could do it again and how fun it was. And yeah, we are talking about the revolution, but it was fun. But then we did talk seriously about the, the somber part of the revolution as well. But, but the point is, is they're getting to do something we also do. We also have other experiences that they can look forward to depending on what level they're in. So we have like a field trip that we plan in for French 3 and 4. So once they get to the high school level, they get to do a field trip. We have lots of like different holiday type celebrations that we do. And so all of these kinds of things I think just help keep the momentum going and help keep students excited about what's coming. And then beyond that, regardless of the experiences, I think keeping them engaged, one way to do that too is keeping, keeping things. Also we have the rigor, but also keeping things a little lighter or more engaging for the student. So some personalized types learning as well, so that students feel like they're having or they're getting a chance to express themselves and use the language in a way that's meaningful for them. Because without the meaningful part, it still is going to feel like this is just information coming into my brain and I'm trying to sort it out. So once they're able to feel like they're doing something in a meaningful way, that that brings the joy and that keeps things engaging for them naturally. And I think some of that also ends up turning into community building because when you're teaching a foreign language, a lot of what you're starting out with are lots of I statements and verbs that are a little easier because we're trying to ease them into using the language so we get to know the students really well. And once we get to know them, then we can use comparisons and we can talk about, you know, our likes and our dislikes and that kind of thing. So we naturally are able to build community that way. So I think that's another way that students stay engaged and feel excited about coming to class.
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C
One final question for Diana Kinzer about foreign language at a classical school. This is technically outside the school, I guess. What can parents do at home to support language learning even if they don't speak the language? My kids are also taking French classes and I am not very helpful in speaking with them. What can I do? What can parents do?
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B
Okay, that's a great question, I think. Well, first of all, just being a parent that asks their students what they are learning as, which is a good rule of thumb, you know, whatever the subject is. But asking them what they're learning and then asking them to teach them about what they're learning or teach them words or tell them about a cultural aspect that they're working on in class, and then also encouraging them to study vocabulary, because without vocabulary, there's not a lot of meat in talking. So the vocabulary is really kind of the base of it. And I know students prefer different methods, but, you know, encouraging your child to make flashcards or writing out the words, and even if it's for like seven to ten minutes each night, at least that little bit of review will help that word really sink in so that they can access it quickly when they want to use it or discuss something. And then I also think if you are in a position where you can bring your student to French art expositions or put them in touch with maybe family friends who are French speakers or maybe get them a tutor so that they can get extra speaking practice or letting them label things around the house or cook French recipes, I think anything in that category will show that you are in support of them learning the language. And I think especially if you're a parent that doesn't know the language, that might even be better because you get to be in the position where you're telling them, okay, I don't know, you teach me. And we know that kids really enjoy that, so that would certainly encourage them. So ultimately, yeah, just encouraging them in their pursuit of learning a foreign language.
- [24:01]
C
Diana Kinzer is French teacher, fifth grade through high school at Sebadokes Classical school in Ellettsville, Indiana. Also a master lead teacher for Hillsdale College's K12 office. Diana, thanks so much for joining us here on the Hillsdale College K12 Classical Education Podcast.
- [24:18]
B
All right, thank you so much, Scott. Thank you.
- [24:20]
C
I'm Scott Bertram. We invite you to like us on Facebook. Search for Hillsdale College K12 classical education. You also can follow us on Instagram hillsdalek12. That's hillsdalek12 on Instagram. Thank you for listening to The Hillsdale College K12 classical education podcast, part of the Hillsdale College Podcast Network. More at Podcast Hillsdale Edu or wherever you get your audio.