Interviewer (4:03)

So what makes art history such an essential part of a classical curriculum rather than something that would be looked at more of an option?

Sonya Bindis (4:13)

Well, yes, so art history and in our curriculum intersects in so many different areas. So it intersects with the history curriculum, it intersects with literature. And so in this classical curriculum, students have these multiple touch points, right, that where they're learning about historical events or literary works of art and, and tying it in with art provides another touch point. So we're kind of coming at students from various angles, if you will, which is how information is then put into long term memory, which is, of course, the goal of education is for students to remember things for life. So that's why in art, in our study of art, that we encompass all of these different areas, not just in creating.

Interviewer (5:11)

Now, the old cliche, of course, is that a picture is worth a thousand words. And I know you've written previously about how art gives us a Polaroid of history. So how can studying artwork fill in some of those gaps that might be left by written text from earlier eras?

Sonya Bindis (5:30)

Right? So I hope everybody that's listening to this podcast knows what a Polaroid is. But really looking at that snapshot, right, of history and written texts have not survived in the same way as art has. Okay, so those written texts from long, long ago have been destroyed in some way, but yet a lot of art that has survived, whether it's in a cathedral or through architecture or even in cave paintings, right? Like that has survived centuries. And so by studying art, by studying sculpture and architecture, we're going to be able to kind of see back into that time period and to learn, you know, what was beauty at that time, what made the architecture of the Parthenon different for that time period? What were unique features in that architecture as well as under our sculpture? You know, what were artists focusing on? What were they learning about in the human body? And how was science intersecting, right, with that, that time period and informing artists work? So everything that we see and know about Art today is informed by these polaroids or these glimpses into the past. So we're really looking at ways that we can point students to those time periods, learn about history in their classrooms, come to art, see those quote unquote polaroids of time, you know, those pieces from that time, and help them understand their history and literature a little bit better.

Interviewer (7:28)

So in teaching and learning in this matter, Sonia, can we create and help make some, some meaningful cross curricular connections when that art is taught intentionally in this way?

Sonya Bindis (7:40)

Oh, absolutely. And I hear teachers when I go and visit schools, teachers telling me about what's happening with their students as they're making these cross curricular connections, you know, that's ultimately in education. The more cross curricular connections you're making, again, those deeper, more thoughtful and logical connections that the students are making themselves. And so they're acting them out on the playground. They're using them in their PE class. They're using the vocabulary in the terminology. And so with that practice with students taking in new information, processing it, connecting to what's already been learned, and then using it, whether it's in play or whether it's in their writing, as the writing, doing writing lessons, you know, they're able to, to really hone in on these topics and this understanding of the curriculum. You know, they're even in mathematics, they're, they're making curricular connections because we're. When you draw a face, when you're doing a portrait, you know, you're doing the, the rule of thirds. And so we're talking about fractions here or when we're mixing colors and, and textures and whatnot that embedded within the math curriculum for lower school students as well. So again, just surrounding those students with as many touch points is really the ultimate goal of what we're doing.

Interviewer (9:13)

Talking with Sonya Bindis, she is teacher support lead at Hillsdale College's K12 education office about teaching art and art history. Many great artists in our times have learned by studying poetry. Prior artist, of course, but also creating master copies. Why is that method still powerful for students today, especially at our classical schools?

Sonya Bindis (9:36)

Yeah. So, you know, looking. All artists have studied the previous. Right. Just as you said in your question. So why did they do that? Well, because they were masters. Right. And they want, we all want to learn from the best. We want to understand how that approach made this, this work unique or better than what was previous, previously done. So in looking at previous artists and in their work, we're asking students to really, to think about the beauty in that and the beauty is not just in the aesthetic, like I like the color or that's pretty to me. The beauty is in the technique and how the artists use techniques and strategies that have been developed from studying previous artists. So we're studying previous artists, we're learning about, you know, I gave the example about, in sculpture, in the development of human anatomy and understanding human anatomy and how that changed sculptures. So taking what is learned throughout that time period and being able to apply it and make something different and unique and new is really what artistry has done for years. We really want to be this thoughtful reflection. We want to teach students about this thought provoking reflection in understanding what was previously done and then how we can extend with materials and knowledge that we have in our current day.

Interviewer (11:13)

So we ask that our students try to reflect on truth and beauty. How does the study of artists and artistic periods help to train and to point a student's taste towards what is genuinely beautiful?

Sonya Bindis (11:29)

That's, that's a really interesting question because everybody kind of has their own perception of beauty, right, Scott? Like what we think is pretty can vary. However, beauty and truth have always been synonymous kind of with nature, right? Like, so we think about as we look at nature. You know, humans have, have over the years have, have tied those two things together. Nature, beauty and truth, and what we see in our everyday life, even today. But pointing students to that and to recognize that things are not just randomly created. Right. Like there has been a process, even the most abstract of art. That artist like Picasso, he studied classically before any drew in what we would call like a very realistic way prior to making his very abstract art, right? So you may argue, well, Picasso, that doesn't show beauty, right? That's your opinion. And, and we can, we can talk about that in different ways, but it doesn't mean that Picasso didn't know what, what beauty, it looks like in different ways. So anyway, we're just again, having these authentic connections for students and pointing them to that meaning of, of nature and beauty and truth and goodness. All of these things definitely intersect. And the art that we study provides that sampling throughout the centuries of how beauty was perceived by different artists.

Interviewer (13:18)

So in the classroom, how do you encourage teachers? What advice do you give to help them engage students in an open dialogue about a painting? Because in many cases, students might not have contemplated these things before. And there's always, well, often a fear that you gotta say the wrong thing, have the wrong opinion. How do you engage in open dialogue about a painting?

Sonya Bindis (13:40)

Right? So this is a skill that you Know, we don't really practice every day. Right. Not many parents sit down and put art in front of their 3 year old or 5 year old and say, tell me what you see. Is that something that's kind of natural to all of us to talk about? But that's what we want to do. We want to start kind of simple with students and we begin this discussion with some simple questions. Okay. And this is very, very in line with what we're doing in all areas of the K12 school. So starting simple with a piece of work like what do you notice? What's the topic? What's. Who are the characters in this piece of art? Or what colors did the artists use? We can start working in the elements of art that they learn, you know, early on in their, in their art classes. So we can ask things like what values did they use? If their faces in the painting we can talk about or in the artwork we can talk about what is the face telling you? What is their, what is their expression? So just again starting with some simple conversations. And then as we, as the students progress in their classes, we can start linking to those historical events that are happening and make those connections with what's happening politically in that era or who commissioned the painting and why is that relevant to the time. Who was paying for the art was pretty influential in what art was created. That's what we know. So then we can deepen those conversations as students learning more or have progressed further into the, the history curriculum itself. So allowing again, inviting them into that cross curricular conversation and, and connecting it. So that's why I, I tell our teachers, you know, you need to, as you're looking at your, the program guide, you're not just looking at the art section. Right. I encourage them where you're looking at for each grade level, what is in the history section, what's in the literature section so that they can stay apprised and also encouraging them to talk to classroom teachers so that these conversations and these dialogues that students are having about different artwork that you know, kind of where to tap into with these students in these conversations and draw them in so that they have that confidence to talk about art in a different way.

Interviewer (16:24)

And what about the actual task of creating art in the classroom? There's this aspect of risk taking and encourage that students have to have to take that first step, the first brushstroke toward creating something new and creating something that is, that is their own. How can teachers help students overcome fear of perhaps creating something?

Sonya Bindis (16:46)

Right. So we're putting all These beautiful images in front of them, right. And what do we hear a lot of students say? I'm not an artist, I can't do that. And we're not asking them to be master artists by any means. And so what many teachers will do is they have students complete like a warm up activity. So as students are entering the classroom each day, they have a small sketchbook. And the sketchbook might just have squares that are, you know, 3 by 4 squares, 3 inch by 4 inch squares. And there's a little task that the teacher has on the board of what they are to sketch or attempt to sketch. And so this is just a really low stakes way of getting students to just start creating and, and get warmed up for the day. So that's one way that they can do that. Also, I, I would encourage teachers to talk with their students about the artists that they're studying. So many artists created multiple series or renditions of a piece of work. So for instance, Van Gogh's sunflower painting. It's a beautiful painting with the vase of sunflowers, lots of yellows and oranges. Maybe you all can picture this right now, but you know, Van Gogh had seven different copies of that painting, trying to perfect it. So talking with students about that process. Monet is another one, right? Water lilies, we all can imagine. You know, if you close your eyes, you can see the bridge and you can see the purples and the pinks and the greens. But he did several renditions of that throughout his life. So over time, you know, we're kind of building this foundation of, with the students of that this masterful work was created over years of practice. You know, it's just like we wouldn't tell our PE students, on the first day of school, you're going to go run a mile. It's going to be timed and that's going to be your final grade, right, for the year. You know, nobody trains for a marathon in less than, you know, what, several months, a year or so. So we're teaching them about this kind of perseverance, risk taking, and how to use the materials. Some of the materials might be really foreign to them, like a palette knife. You know, some artists used a palette knife to create a whole painting. And when a student would look at that, it kind of looks like a cheese server, right? Like it's, what do I do with this thing? And how do I, how do I mix paint and put paint on a canvas? And so there are a lot of things that, that we're asking students to take risks with which I think ultimately leads to better classroom success in other areas as well. Right. In mathematics, for instance, I'm going to try to solve this story problem, even though I know I'm terrible at story problems. I can try. I can try to do that. So those are things that we ask teachers to encourage students and invite them into this creative process.

Interviewer (19:58)

Sonia Bindis is with us. Teacher support lead at Hillsdale College's K12 education office talking about teaching art, art history in K12. You studied art at the college level here at Hillsdale under Professor emeritus of art, Sam Cadecht, who's still very active around here, even in his emeritus status. What makes his approach to teaching art so distinctive and perhaps so valuable for K12 educators?

Sonya Bindis (20:25)

Oh, Sam Connect is a master of storytelling, and he is the kind of person. Well, in fact, when I was a student, this was back when we looked at art on slides. So we had a carousel. The room was darkened down, and there was a slide that would click through, and he would tell us the story of each of these works of art and the amount of knowledge, the extensive knowledge that he had and continues to have, obviously, about art history. And the artist just provided this rich, extensive study of each piece of artwork and that time period. And you could imagine yourself almost in the painting. You could imagine yourself in that time and really understanding that. And. And when we talk to classroom teachers, this is exactly what we want them to do. We want them to draw students into that story of history, into the story of literature, and. And really share with them all the details that. That can be shared about that time period, not just about a timeline or a particular date and time. You know, those are all things that are. Are helpful to know. But really understanding the story of art is what Sam brought to every class. And he's an amazing, brilliant guy. He's so passionate about his work. He's truly inspirational. I wanted to be Sam Knecht. Right. Like everybody that took his class, they really aspired to learn as much as they could, so they could just maybe be a fraction as smart as he was, or he is rather. So anyway, I just really have a lot of respect for him as a teacher.

Interviewer (22:28)

He's the teacher in the new Hillsdale College online course American Paintings, which covers heroes and landscapes and particularly focuses on everyday Americans, too, and battle scenes as well. How can teachers use those themes to perhaps enrich their own classroom discussions?

Sonya Bindis (22:48)

Yeah, so I took this course. I was really excited when it came out. I was like, yes, I'm a student again here. And it's an amazing four part study of American art. And we're up on our semi sesquicentennial. Yes, I got that all out. That was great. That's happening this year. And so this is a really timely course for teachers to take. But it's a lot of the artwork that's discussed in this online course is taught in our K12 curriculum. So in a sense, teachers, our K12 teachers can kind of go back and watch these courses and kind of beef up their own lectures. Right. Like it's going back to school for them in a sense. So what he also does, which I think is really, really neat, is that part of it. He demonstrates various techniques that artists used in the mediums that they used. He discusses the elements of art. So there's seven elements of art and he works those into his discussions about each. Each work of art. So it's really kind of a tutorial for our teachers, which is pretty unique and not a big time commitment. Right. Each unit is about 55 minutes. 50 to 55 minutes. And you can listen on audio, so you can listen as a podcast too, if you need to. Really a great way for them to beef up and stock up their content knowledge to share with their own students.

Interviewer (24:32)

That's the American Paintings course, which you can find on the Hillsdale College online courses site. Sonia Bindis is teacher support lead for Hillsdale College's K12 education office and talking today about teaching art and art history in our K12 programs. Sonya, thanks so much for joining us here on the Hillsdale College K12 Classical Education Podcast.

Sonya Bindis (24:55)

Thank you, Scott. It's been great. I appreciate the opportunity.

Scott Bertram (24:59)

I'm Scott Bertram. We invite you to like us on Facebook search for Hillsdale College K12 classical education. You also can follow us on Instagram hillsdalek12. That's hillsdalek12 on Instagram. Thank you for listening to The Hillsdale College K12 classical education podcast, part of the Hillsdale College Podcast Network. More at Podcast Hillsdale Edu or wherever you get your audio.