← Hillsdale College K-12 Classical Education Podcast
Hillsdale College K-12 Classical Education Podcast
Writing Letters of Recommendation and Advising Resume Creation
00:16:25
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- [00:02]
Podcast Announcer
This show is a part of the Hillsdale College Podcast Network. If you like what you hear, please subscribe to your favorite. You'll get brand new episodes of all your favorite shows sent right to your device and you'll help us know that you're out there listening. Never miss another episode by going to Podcast Hillsdale Edu subscribe. That's Podcast Hillsdale Edu subscribe or click the Follow or Subscribe button on Apple podcasts, Spotify or YouTube.
- [00:46]
Podcast Host Introduction
Welcome to the Hillsdale College K12 Classical Education Podcast, bringing you insight into classical education and its unique emphasis on human virtue and moral character, responsible citizenship, content, rich curricula and teacher led classrooms. Now your host, Scott Bertram.
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Scott Bertram
Thanks for listening. The Hillsdale College K12 Classical Education Podcast is part of the Hillsdale College Podcast Network. More episodes at Podcast Hillsdale Edu or wherever you get your audio. You also can find more information on topics and ideas discussed on this show and at our website, k12 hillsdale.edu.
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We'Re talking today with Jenny Pridgen. She's director of Field Recruitment for the Admissions department here at Hillsdale College. Jenny, thanks so much for joining us.
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Jenny Pridgen
Oh, thanks for having me.
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Scott Bertram
Glad to be here talking today about letters of recommendation and also high school resumes. And we start with the letters of recommendation, which I'm always pleased to get that note, honestly, as a, you know, I teach journalism here and so I get letters from our journalism students saying will you please do this for me? And for me it's an enjoyable process. I don't know if it's the case across the board. We'll talk a bit about that today. Generally though, I mean, is it worth the time to take it seriously to write a thorough and a thoughtful letter of recommendations for students? Is it even worth the trouble? Do they make a difference?
- [02:08]
Jenny Pridgen
They do, yes. I think it can be really overwhelming for a lot of especially beloved high school teachers who probably get tens of twenties of requests like this every year. And I know that it can be quite a burden, but it can be really transformational to us in the application process. It really gives a lot of life to an application. It gives some really good background on a student. It helps us either verify or contradict certain things that a student has said and not necessarily that we're looking to contradict things, but just, you know, it, it can really be supportive and it can give these examples that really bring alive a student and all they've told us, but we haven't really gotten a chance to see it yet because they've just Sent us paper, you know, and that's a really hard thing to see.
- [02:54]
Scott Bertram
What do colleges like Hillsdale want to see? What do they like to see in these letters of recommendations from teachers or counselors?
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Jenny Pridgen
Great question. So I think the most important things for us when a student asks for, hey, what should I ask my teacher to write about? The three things we normally say is, can you tell us about the student's character, about their work ethic, and then about their academic abilities, really? And to do those things, we find examples to be the most useful. So what is the student actually like in a classroom? Maybe they're really horrible at Spanish, but you've never seen a student work harder in your life, you know, and so even saying the true thing, but then giving the background of, oh, but we think this actually makes the student a really good fit for the college. It can be so helpful. I mean, they're going to find hard things at Hillsdale, and we want to know, you know, when that happens, are they going to dig in and push forward, or are they going to sort of give up and back off? So even saying that they've struggled with something and that then they've worked through it can be really good.
- [04:01]
Scott Bertram
Anything in particular that should be avoided, writing these letters of recommendation?
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Jenny Pridgen
I think, you know, we like to know how you know the student. But an excessive autobiography can really detract from the amount of space that you have to write about the student. And I think sometimes it's been really distracting and takes up maybe a third of the space or a half of the space. And really, we'd love if the letters could stay to about a page. And so if you can use those mostly to explain the student, that's really ideal. And then I think the other thing that you should avoid is I know it can be tempting to use a template, and in some ways, I think templates can be really great. But you have to be so careful. We've gotten letters regarding different students from the same person before, and they've used almost the exact same words and the exact same descriptions. And I don't think they were paying enough attention to realize that's what they had done. And maybe those things were still true, but it made it a lot less impactful.
- [05:06]
Scott Bertram
Let me ask an am I doing it the wrong way Question again. I write these not for college admissions, but for internships and jobs and things like that. And I'm a journalist, and so I think about writing in a way where what's my lead? Right? And so I like to begin a Letter with a brief, again, because we keep it to a page, but some sort of brief anecdote that really shows a student's character, work ethic, but also perhaps makes the reader want to continue reading that letter?
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Jenny Pridgen
Yes. Oh, we love that. Yeah. A little bit of color description. Those things are really great. There are some particular teachers at the academy who always write really just lively letters of recommendation, and I always look forward to those. So I think that personal. You know, don't just try to push it into a template. I think bringing that real knowledge that you have of the student and that story makes it really memorable.
- [06:01]
Scott Bertram
Is it a good idea to try to customize a letter like this for a particular institution? So a Hillsdale letter different than a University of Michigan letter or a Columbia letter or something like that, does it make sense to sort of look at where you're sending it and try to craft something that might be more interesting or more impactful for someone at that college or university?
- [06:23]
Jenny Pridgen
Good question. I think we appreciate it when we say this student is a great fit for Hillsdale because of one particular thing, but we understand that that is not always possible and that the amount of time that that would take would be potentially very onerous to the writer. So I think. I think, though, it would be helpful or good, I don't think it's so transformational that you feel like. That you should feel like you have to. I do think that if Hillsdale's at the top of the list for a student, or if you do feel that the student is a particular fit for this particular college, whatever that college is, it might be worth your time for that one variation, but certainly not 10 variations. If the student's a very ambitious applicant.
- [07:07]
Scott Bertram
For teachers or counselors who do get asked by a number of students to write these letters, are there circumstances in which you should decline that offer? And how do you have that conversation?
- [07:20]
Jenny Pridgen
That's a good question. I do think we tell students to ask and say, hey, could you write me a positive letter of recommendation? Because you should always make sure that that's something that the teacher's willing to do. If you're worried that a student may not have a lot of great options and. And you're willing to put some time into describing their potential, then maybe giving it a try would still be good. But I do think that if you feel like it would be a real struggle to have positive things to say about the student and maybe college isn't the right fit for them, then I think having that opportunity and saying that you want what's best for them, and that you don't know if Hillsdale's the right fit.
- [08:00]
Scott Bertram
You're looking for character, work ethic academy. Maybe you're a baseball coach and you work really intensely on work ethic. Maybe some character.
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Jenny Pridgen
Sure.
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Scott Bertram
Not so much on the academic side. Is it okay to sort of say that? And, like, I haven't had a student in the classroom, but I can talk to these attributes.
- [08:17]
Jenny Pridgen
Certainly. You know, as a. As an admissions office, we do ask for two academic letters of recommendation, but we do invite a third if a student has someone like their baseball coach who could really speak to some of those qualities, and we would love for that to be the third letter. Sometimes students, like a homeschooled student has a hard time finding academic writers. But I think in most cases, we do like to see the academic side. But a lot of characteristics that a student has can be applied, like from the baseball field to the classroom. And so it certainly isn't the end of the world if the best person to write for you is your coach. And I think acknowledging, like, hey, I don't have them in class, but I see these characteristics and these traits would be really still helpful.
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Scott Bertram
So you say you're looking for two, maybe three. Yes. Are more letters always better? How does that work?
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Jenny Pridgen
You know, students sometimes send us 7, 8, 9, 10. And hopefully they all get really repetitive. Right. They're all saying good things and probably all similar things. So we really appreciate when a student stops at three. We have a lot of applications to read. Counselors read all those applications. And so we've found that three really sort of plumbs the depths of what we need to know. And at that point, we'd love for you to stop.
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Scott Bertram
And is it helpful at all to have someone with a recognizable name writing that letter of recommendation for a student?
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Jenny Pridgen
You know, not always. Only if that person really knows them well. You know, if all they can say is, oh, wow, I've met this person one time. They were great at bringing me coffee. That's not very helpful to us. And so I do get students asking that a number of times. Oh, I know the senator. I know this person. Should I have them write a letter? And the answer is always, only if.
- [09:58]
Scott Bertram
They know you well, going back, character, work ethic, and academics you're looking to see in perhaps a letter of recommendation, do you put additional weight or more weight on any particular sector as you review a letter of recommendation for a student?
- [10:13]
Jenny Pridgen
I would probably say if we had to choose, it would be some combination of work ethic or character, probably actually less academics, because we can see that in their transcript, potentially in a test score. If they've taken one in the writing, we can see if they have the horsepower to make it at Hillsdale. And so kind of what's behind all that is more helpful to us.
- [10:33]
Scott Bertram
I've had to do this a couple of times now, and counselors and teachers likely do, too. And hopefully, in the way you mentioned before, they're writing something specific for each student. I've had students going for the same job with the same internship, and they're both Hillsdale grads or both Hillsdale seniors, and they don't know they're going for the same job. And they both asked me to write a letter of recommendation, and I'm happy to do so. But what I tell them every year is, in the beginning is, everything matters, because at some point, I've got to make some sort of differentiating remark about what makes you different from this Hillsdale graduate. You've both gone through the same. Taken the same core curriculum. You've both done all these things. So my point being, if you are a teacher or a counselor and you've got two students who are applying to the same college, what are some of those things that maybe would be interesting to you, as a director of field recruitment for the admissions department, to differentiate one student from a particular high school from another student at a particular high school?
- [11:28]
Jenny Pridgen
Yeah, we don't like superlatives if they're not true, But I do think it is helpful to us, especially from schools that we know, which is probably a number of the people listening to this. They come from schools that are connected to the college in some way that to say, oh, wow, this is one of the best students I've ever had is certainly helpful, but we don't expect you to say that again if it isn't true. And so speaking specifically to how their characteristics might connect really well or thrive at a place like Hillsdale can be good. And as much as we really appreciate your desire to differentiate, you can leave that to us. You don't have to feel the responsibility of, oh, I'm gonna write these two letters. I need to decide which one I want to be there more. We do have a holistic application review process. And so there are a lot of other things that we're looking at. And this is, though, really important, not the only thing.
- [12:21]
Scott Bertram
Jenny Pridgen's with us. She's director of field recruitment for the admissions department at Hillsdale College, talking letters of recommendation and now high school Resumes. So in the admissions department here at least, what role does a high school resume play? Thinking back to my process, which is now, you know, 20x years ago, I don't remember doing a resume, you know, application and letters. I don't remember doing a resume. Is that something that's somewhat new or what role does that play in your review process?
- [12:49]
Jenny Pridgen
Yeah, great question. So the resume is newly required from Hillsdale admissions. It's always been kind of a piece of the application you could fill out if you wanted to, but you didn't have to if you didn't. And we've just realized that as we've gotten more competitive in our admissions process, knowing what a student is involved in outside the classroom can be really differentiating to us. So we do require it. There's the common application, which has a spot for it. And then Hillsdale's application has a place where you can either upload one or input all the information or. Or if a student wants to send it separately, that's completely fine, and it's really good. It helps us understand what a student might be like outside the classroom, what's important to them, how they spend their time. We've realized more and more just the community. This community aspect is so important at the college. And so not just, okay, you're gonna show up to class and do your work, but are you going to get engaged in student life? Are you going to care about what happens in your residence hall? Are you going to dig in and involve yourself in places like the radio stat know, things like that? And so we really enjoy seeing what makes the student them outside the classroom.
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Scott Bertram
So what sorts of things would you like to see or should be placed on an activity resume that that's going to give you a better chance to learn about a particular student?
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Jenny Pridgen
So I think some students think, you know, resume means job experience. And so I don't really have anything to write, especially because a lot of students can't start working until they're 16. So a job experience is certainly included or should be. But we also like to see service. We like to see. See clubs and organizations within your school. You know, involvement in things like church or Boy Scouts or whatever it is that you're doing in the community. All those things are really helpful. Really, anything that you're doing between the 9th and 12th grade years. And then we ask sort of, how much time do you get? Do you give to that thing? You know, some students will do a lot in one area. You know, they'll get their beautiful ballet dancers and like their whole life is spent in the studio. And they'll say, oh, is that better? Or should I get involved in, you know, 17 routine things like some students do? And the answer is, we like lots of different students at Hillsdale. And so don't do something just for the resume. Do it because you love it. And usually we can tell that it's important to you. So some students are a three sport athlete, some students will be in one sport and then in theater, and then they help their grandma out every Sunday. So really, anyway, it doesn't have to be an official thing for you to include it on your resume. If it's just something that you spend a lot of your time doing, we'd love to hear about it.
- [15:27]
Scott Bertram
Is that something in which you'd like to perhaps hear parents listen to these shows as well and have students? Is that something at least here at Hillsdale you want to hear somewhere in that process? This is something I wish to continue at Hillsdale in some way, whether it's a service project or I'm going to continue to play trumpet or whatever it might be. Do you kind of want to know? Here are the things I think I might want to keep doing non academic.
- [15:51]
Jenny Pridgen
Yes, I think it is helpful, especially for us to picture where they might find a group of people that they'd fit in with at the college. It's not essential. We really highly recommend an admissions interview as part of your application process and usually we're able to pull those things out of that conversation. But there is kind of a place to mark, I want to keep doing this in college and so feel free to mark that.
- [16:13]
Scott Bertram
Jenny Pridgen is director of field recruitment for admissions here at Hillsdale College, talking about letters of recommendation and high school resumes here today. Jenny, thanks so much for joining us here on the Hillsdale College K12 Classical Education Podcast.
- [16:27]
Jenny Pridgen
Thanks, Scott. I appreciate it.
- [16:29]
Scott Bertram
I'm Scott Bertram. We invite you to like us on Facebook Search for Hillsdale College K12 classical education. You also can follow us on Instagram hillsdalek12. That's hillsdalek12 on Instagram. Thank you for listening to The Hillsdale College K12 classical education podcast, part of the Hillsdale College Podcast Network. More at Podcast Hillsdale Edu or wherever you get your audio.