Bridging Art and Music

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Bridging Art and Music

Podcast: Hillsdale College Podcast Network Superfeed
Episode: "Bridging Art and Music"
Date: June 1, 2026
Host: Scott Bertram
Guests: Noah Bush (Upper School Music and Fine Arts Director, Orange County Classical Academy), Gina Capaldi (Art, Art History, and Studio Arts Teacher, Orange County Classical Academy)

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the integration of art and music within classical education, featuring two educators from Orange County Classical Academy. Scott Bertram leads a lively and thoughtful discussion on why the arts are not mere “extras” but fundamental to holistic learning, how collaboration between disciplines enriches student experience, and practical strategies for teachers to bridge these creative domains—even when they are not specialists themselves.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Journeys into the Arts

• Gina Capaldi:

  • Decided as early as second grade to become an artist due to a love of story and exposure to art.
  • Studied illustration on scholarship, later worked as an author/illustrator for over 30 years.
  • Became a teacher to “give back.”
  • Quote: "I decided early on when I was in second grade that I was going to become an artist... because it really spoke to me even then." – Gina (02:30)

• Noah Bush:

  • Music a constant in his childhood—singing in church, listening with family.
  • Homeschooled; mother emphasized music literacy.
  • Chose clarinet as a primary instrument; pursued degrees in performance and education.
  • Interest in music fueled by passion for other disciplines, seeing music as connected to “everything else.”
  • Quote: "One of the main things that drew me to music is actually... my love of other disciplines, my love of literature and art." – Noah (03:17)

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2. Role of the Arts in Classical Education

• The Arts as Pinnacle of Expression:

  • Noah views arts as reflecting the divine creator and being a “window into the human soul.”
  • Art and music are described as the connective tissue of history and culture.
  • Quote: "The arts are the pinnacle of human creativity and expression. In that way, I believe we reflect our creator, who is the perfect artist and author." – Noah (04:39)

• Discipline & Structure:

  • Gina underscores discipline in art—the act of truly “seeing” and “experiencing” art, especially through a classical lens, provides students with order, balance, harmony, and expressive freedom.
  • Quote: "Children get a sense of order and harmony and balance with the classical approach to the arts." – Gina (05:26)

• Skills Beyond the Discipline:

  • Both agree that art and music teach observation, listening, and sensory stewardship—skills that benefit all areas of life.
  • Music, specifically, enhances memory and accesses unique parts of the brain.

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3. Dangers of Marginalizing the Arts

• Risks of “Secondary Subject” Status:

  • Gina reacts strongly against treating arts as secondary: "That actually makes me a little bit crazy because it's not... The arts in general are really about training the brain, developing concentration, strengthening memory, sharpening attention, cultivating good habits." (07:53)
  • Both lament the cultural trend of relegating the arts, when historically (e.g., Plato, The Republic) music and movement were essential.

• The Loss if Arts Are Sidelined:

  • Noah: "If art and music are treated as afterthoughts, then students miss out on a true understanding of beauty... and accessing what many have called the sublime." (08:51)
  • Both stress the loss of virtues such as humility, patience, gratitude.

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4. Importance of Bridging Art and Music Instruction

• Unified Front in Defense of the Arts:

  • Noah proposes that unity between art and music teachers creates a stronger defense against their marginalization and ensures consistent values and messaging to students.
  • Gina affirms, highlighting how "arts reflect society and culture and history and philosophies and everything." (11:24)

• Historical and Sensory Connections:

  • The arts historically interconnect: literature often sets new movements, visual artists expand upon them, and musicians later build on both—"almost a construction of the senses… writing and reading → looking → hearing." (11:44)

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5. Practical Collaboration: What It Looks Like

• Joint Planning:

  • Gina and Noah plan curricula jointly, select units that reinforce each other, and intentionally synchronize timelines and themes.
  • Example: In world cultures class, Gina covers art, Noah covers music, and teaching is intertwined.

• Integrated Events and Projects:

  • Art projects reflect historical periods that are also studied musically.
  • Example: Opera provides visual themes (costumes, set design) and Impressionism is explored in both painting and music (e.g., Monet and Debussy).

• Quote:

  • "We sat down together and… said, okay, when you teach this, I'm going to teach that… I'll play this piece of music for students when we're talking about this composer." – Noah (14:10)

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6. Bringing the Arts into Non-Specialist Classrooms

• Small Steps:

  • Noah encourages non-specialists to start by, for example, playing classical music during independent work, even if knowledge is limited.
  • Collaboration is crucial: “Ask your music and art teachers… how you can best support the arts for their students.” (16:18)

• Cross-Disciplinary Collaborations:

  • Gina gives an example of working with a science teacher on camera obscura and color, linking art with STEM.
  • Noah shares the integration of music (e.g., Prokofiev's and Berlioz's "Romeo and Juliet") into literature studies.

• Student Engagement:

  • Students get excited when lessons connect between subjects, e.g., Roman columns in art reinforcing history class lessons, sparking deeper dialogue and engagement.

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7. Showcasing Arts Within the School Community

• Unified Showcases:

  • Noah's passion: blending all arts in concerts and exhibitions, not compartmentalizing by discipline. Art is displayed during music concerts; poetry recitations are part of events; parents see a holistic vision.
    • Quote: "All of our concerts feature as many of the arts and as many of our students’ work as we can fit in there." – Noah (20:01)

• Scholarship and Recognition:

  • Gina mentions recently creating a scholarship to support an art student—developing talent and exhibiting work.

• Co-Taught Elective:

  • They co-lead a class, “Fine Arts Through World Cultures,” exploring the intersection of music and art across civilizations.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Value of the Arts:

  • "The arts are really a window into the human soul and the human condition." – Noah (04:39)

• On Interconnectedness:

  • "They have to be connected. When you study the eras of the arts throughout history, art is used to interpret art. Composers who come later help interpret composers who come earlier, and vice versa." – Noah (11:44)

• On Starting Collaboration:

  • "Start with something easy, start with something achievable, and talk to your music and art teachers." – Noah (16:18)

• Advice for Schools:

  • "You have to understand other teachers’ disciplines almost as well as your own. And that... requires work." – Noah (22:57)
  • "Allow students to see you take the chances with the arts and really be creative with your approach... it's a beautiful thing to see." – Gina (23:52)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment/Event | |-----------|--------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:06 | Guests’ introductions and personal backgrounds | | 04:30 | The arts' role in classical education | | 07:35 | Risks of making the arts secondary | | 10:20 | Why bridging art and music teaching matters | | 13:02 | Collaboration examples: curriculum planning and integration | | 16:18 | How non-specialists can include the arts in teaching | | 19:48 | Showcasing the arts: events and institutional support | | 21:55 | Co-taught course: Fine Arts Through World Cultures | | 22:45 | Final advice for schools on connecting arts programs |

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Conclusion

This episode offers a robust case for not only maintaining but actively intertwining the study of art and music in education. Through rich examples, impassioned testimonies, and actionable advice, Gina Capaldi and Noah Bush demonstrate the transformative potential of close collaboration between creative disciplines. Their message: the arts are not just subjects but gateways to culture, beauty, virtue, and a deeper understanding of humanity—a vision that demands and rewards intentional, unified effort.

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Transcript

[Scott Bertram]

Hey there, it's Scott Bertram, host of the Radio Free Hillsdale Hour. On this week's program, we welcome back Heather MacDonald from the Manhattan Institute, contributing editor at City Journal. Her book When Race Trumps Merit is now out in a new paperback version with a new preface by Heather McDonald. We'll talk about that and efforts by the Trump administration to curb DEI programs in this his second term. Plus, Richard Samuelson from Hillsdale in D.C. he's back too, as we walk up to America 250 this week discussing Thomas Paine's common sense and Abigail Adams and her request of John to remember the ladies. All that this week on the Radio Free Hillsdale Hour. Find it at podcast hillsdale.edu or wherever you get your audio.

[Gina Capaldi]

Welcome to The Hillsdale College K12 classical education podcast, bringing you insight into classical education and its unique emphasis on human

[Noah Bush]

virtue and moral character, responsible citizenship, content, rich curricula and teacher led classrooms. Now your host, Scott Bertram.

[Scott Bertram]

Thanks for listening. The Hillsdale College K12 Classical Education Podcast is part of the Hillsdale College Podcast Network. More episodes at podcast hillsdale.edu or wherever you get your audio. You also can find more information on topics and ideas discussed on this show at our website, k12 hillsdale.edu. we're joined today by two guests. Mr. Noah Bush is upper school music and fine arts director at Orange County Classical Academy. And and Gina Capaldi is art, art history studio arts teacher also at Orange County Classical in Orange, California. Noah Gina, thanks so much for joining us.

[Noah Bush]

Thanks so much for having us. We're happy to be here absolutely.

[Scott Bertram]

Talking today about bridging art and music. So we have a representative from each of those sectors with us on the program today. As we start, I think it would be interesting and perhaps important to have both of you share what exactly drew you to your discipline, be it music for Noah, art for Gina. Why do you think you ended up where you did?

[Gina Capaldi]

I'll go first. My name is Gina. You know, I decided early on when I was in second grade that I was going to become an artist, actually an illustrator. That was my direction because it just really spoke to me even then. And I love story and I particularly love art and I was exposed to art. So I ended up going receiving an art scholarship to Pepperdine University. And then I was accepted one to one of the top art schools in the nation for illustration. And after that I worked as an author illustrator for over 30 years. And basically I became a teacher because I thought it was time for me to give back. And that's and that's the truth. Absolutely. And that's it in a nutshell.

[Noah Bush]

No, for me, for music. I really don't remember a time when I didn't love music. Music was a part of my childhood, a part of my home growing up, whether it was singing in church, listening to 70s music with my dad. I was homeschooled. And my mom made a big point to teach all of my siblings and I how to read music. And she taught us all how to play the recorder as well. And I was the only one who actually loved the recorder. And they saw how much I loved it, saw how much I practiced and played. And so they decided to investigate a similar instrument, which happened to be the clarinet. And ever since then I. I've studied that. I went to school for degrees in both performance and education. But really, one of the main things that drew me to music is actually, ironically, my love of other disciplines, my love of literature and art. And really impressed that love of music on me even more because I saw how music connected to everything else. And so the well rounded education that my parents were able to give me is really what pushed me in the direction of music.

[Scott Bertram]

So how are the arts again, be it music or arts, studio arts, how are they integral to our classical model of education?

[Noah Bush]

Well, in my opinion, the arts are the pinnacle of human creativity and expression. And in that way, I believe that we reflect our creator, who is the perfect artist and author. And so the arts are really a window into the human soul and the human condition. I believe the arts help us to answer questions of who are we? What do we desire as human beings? What are we capable of? And the arts are really the connective tissue, I believe, of history and culture. You can learn everything about a region, a culture, a time period, or a person through the art that they create. And so without the arts, you lose so many things.

[Scott Bertram]

Gina.

[Gina Capaldi]

You know, for me, art is such a discipline. And what is so exciting is when I see students experience art for the first time, when they actually learn how to see and really experience it. And then you force them to go outside and look and get off of technology and experience it in a way that they've never done before. And it's just profound for me. And I think that the classical model is the way to actually teach art. I think that art they get. Children get a sense of order and harmony and balance with the classical approach to the arts. They're allowed to express themselves. There's discipline involved and there's structure. It's really remarkable what the classical approach to the arts and classical education gives to a student.

[Noah Bush]

And I think specifically with art and music, it's so important that students learn how to really look at something and how to really listen to something. And those are skills that go beyond the specific disciplines of art and music. The ability to use our senses, to steward our senses well, to be able to really truly look and listen to things. Those are abilities that will serve students well for the rest of their lives. Specifically on the music side, we believe as classical teachers that music has a unique ability to shape the affections of students and to express emotion. And on the scientific side, music accesses parts of the brain and more parts of the brain than pretty much any other activity. Memory wise. Music is stored in parts of the brain that often aren't affected by diseases like Alzheimer's. People remember music, people connect with music, people tell stories through music. It's a part of every culture throughout all of history. In the classical model, students have the opportunity to participate in that conversation that's been happening for centuries.

[Scott Bertram]

Talking with Noah Bush and Gina Capaldi about bridging arts and music. And I think Noah was getting a bit at this question there, but let's expound a bit on this. What's the risk? What's the harm of treating art and music as, say, mere secondary subjects?

[Gina Capaldi]

That actually makes me a little bit crazy because it's not. It is. It is. The arts in general are really about training the brain, developing concentration, strengthening memory, sharpening attention, cultivating good habits. And so I don't know when it happened that the arts became a craft. And so I'm not speaking specifically for the visual arts, but it's. But music too. It's a fun time. It's a party. It's not. It is such an extraordinary moment to grow as a human being and experience just where your soul grows as well as your mind and everything else. It's baffling to me. Even something practical as hand eye coordination, that's really remarkable. So do you want to weigh in on this as well?

[Noah Bush]

Sure, yeah. I mean, on the sort of philosophical side of things, Plato in his Republic talks about how the two primary subjects that students should learn in the perfect city state are gymnastics for the body and music for the soul. And if you asked any teacher in the public school system, certainly in California, what the two primary subjects should be, neither of them would be PE or music. No one would say either of those. And so we have a very different perspective now in our culture than we used to. And I think it's a shame as the program guide from Hillsdale says in its curriculum essays, art and music are primary lenses through which we should perceive the world. The arts provide a lens through which to see everything else. And if art and music are treated as afterthoughts, then students miss out on that. They miss out on a true understanding of beauty. They miss out on accessing what many have called the sublime. In the Romantic movement, there are so

[Gina Capaldi]

many

[Noah Bush]

beautiful parts of life and education that students completely miss out on if they are not taught well in the

[Gina Capaldi]

arts and think about the virtues that they're missing out on. Humility, fortitude. I mean, patience, gratitude. It just goes on and on. So it's extremely important.

[Scott Bertram]

We're bringing the two of you together today to talk about bridging art and music. So why is it important that teachers of the arts, music, art elsewhere, work together to bridge the content and bridge the curriculum?

[Noah Bush]

Well, I think, as we've been talking about, that there is an attack on the arts and our culture. I believe the arts are being destroyed. They're being relegated, they're being undersold, and even the actual discipline and creation of modern art is under attack as well. And so when you have a unified front as classical teachers, when the music teachers and art teachers are actually working together and showing that they're unified in their mission and in their values, I think that that can actually prevent some of that attack. I think it's important that teachers are working together to show that the arts are valuable and having similar perspectives on those things as they instruct students.

[Gina Capaldi]

I completely agree. I mean, Noah is so eloquent with what he's saying, but it's. It's the truth. I mean, the bottom line is arts reflect society and culture and history and philosophies and everything. And I don't. It's really remarkable, so you couldn't put it better.

[Noah Bush]

And I also think that the arts throughout history are inherently connected, so it doesn't make sense to teach them as separate things. They have to be connected. When you study the eras of the arts throughout history, art is used to interpret art. Composers who come later help interpret composers who come earlier, and vice versa. The other thing that many people don't understand is that there's actually a clear progression throughout history in the specific eras or time periods. Let's take the Romantic period. Usually authors and poets come first, and they sort of establish the guidelines of what new movements are going to be. And then artists come, and they paint some of the things that the writers were writing about. And then usually composers Come last, which is interesting. And they take what the artists have done and they build on that through music. So you have this interesting almost construction of the senses, where it's starting with writing and reading and then moving to looking and then moving to. To hearing. It's really interesting. And so if you divorce those, all of these disciplines from each other, students miss out on all of that, and they're trying to fill in a puzzle without all the pieces.

[Scott Bertram]

So you clearly work together. What does that collaboration look like in practice between an art teacher and a music teacher? And maybe you have some personal examples to share.

[Gina Capaldi]

When we collaborate together, it's wonderful because actually, Noe has a good, strong sense of the arts, fine arts study, the drawing and painting. And so. And I'm not so much with music, but we try to incorporate our given disciplines together. Let's see. I start with usually an art project, specifically when we work in a class that is the world cultures class, he takes on the music, I take on the art, and we talk about the cultures together. So we combine our learning. But I also. Or rather our teaching, but I also like to incorporate informational text, primary sources, poetry and music when I teach in my particular discipline. And any of the projects I work on reflect any given period, time period.

[Noah Bush]

Yeah, I remember our first year here because we started working at the school at the same time. We both started the upper school programs for art and music, respectively, here. And we sat down together and opened up the program guide and just walked through every single unit together and said, okay, when you teach this, I'm going to teach that. And, oh, I can incorporate this painting into this unit on this, and, oh, I'll play this piece of music for students. When we're talking about this composer, it was from the beginning a very clear partnership, and we're very grateful for that. We know that not every school or every pair of teachers has that ability. So it's been a true blessing at this school. But we do all kinds of things to blend the two together. I mean, just one specific example off the top of my head, I teach opera to students, and that provides so many opportunities to talk about visuals, because so much of opera is visual. So we talk about the costumes, we talk about the staging, the lighting, the set pieces. All of those things bleed into what Gina teaches in her class. And I have other units. Like when I. When we talk about Impressionism, we're bringing in Impressionist composers and painters that correspond with each other. Many of Debussy's works were based on paintings by Monet. Or other impressionist artists. And so the possibilities are really limitless for integrating the two subjects together. It just requires intentionality and actually sitting down with the other person and brainstorming.

[Scott Bertram]

Talking with Noah Bush teaches upper school music and is also fine arts director at Orange County Classical Academy. Gita Capaldi with us too. She teaches art, art history, studio arts at Orange County Classical. For those teachers who are not specialists in art or in music, are there ways for them to bring these disciplines into their teaching in a real substantive way?

[Noah Bush]

Definitely. I think. I think that many teachers are afraid of the arts. Actually, many, many non arts teachers are afraid of the arts because it can be intimidating if you don't feel like you have a background or a lot of knowledge in those things. I think many teachers are intimidated by the thought of talking about classical music or classical art if they don't have a background in it. But it doesn't necessarily have to be that complicated. Even the simple act of putting on classical music in the background as students are working independently on something. There are studies that show the effects that that can have on students work and their brain as they're working. If you can go even a step further and challenge yourself to find classical music that relates to what they're talking about, then that's even better. But I would just advise general ed teachers to start small. Start with something easy, start with something achie believable and talk to your music and art teachers. Ask them what you can do to best support the learning of the arts for their students.

[Gina Capaldi]

I totally agree. I think that that's certainly the way that most teachers approach it anyway. I mean, they'll take a painting, for example, and have a discussion about, I don't know, the Industrial Revolution for impressionism or during the late 1800s. I'm collaborating with one of our science teachers for next year and we' be doing a chem obscura together. And so that should be really fascinating. I'm not sure what his. His side of it is. It's probably prisms and color and whatnot. But that's something that we talk about in art and it opens up the children's eyes. So you always have to have some sort of a collaboration with teachers outside of your discipline. And it's really exciting and it really makes sense to. It makes sense with this for the students as well, in particular.

[Noah Bush]

Yeah, another. Another example of that that actually just happened. This reminded me of that A couple weeks ago. Our literature teacher has been teaching Romeo and Juliet. And so she reached out to me and Said, hey, are there any famous pieces of music that are about Romeo and Juliet? And I said, well, great. Prokofiev wrote his ballet on that. Berlioz has a symphonic suite that is Romeo and Juliet. And here's the specific timestamps, here's the specific, specific scenes that those correspond to. And I'd love for you to talk to students about how does the music, how does a musical portrayal of the scene that we just read and acted out together, how does that enhance your understanding of it? So really, just being open to trying new things and being open to reaching out to your co teachers for ideas goes a very long way.

[Gina Capaldi]

And I want to add one other thing. So the children, when they learn from one area and let's say history, and they learn about Rome, Roman or Greek columns, and they come into my class and I'm really teaching something very similar, and not only similar, but adding to it, they get really excited and they really get, they are excited about learning and they bring things up that they learned in the other class and it really creates a wonderful dialogue. So I, I really urge anybody to, to look into that, to really work with and collaborate.

[Scott Bertram]

After you do all this work and the students are learning, you want to show it off a little bit. What are some examples of events at Orange County Classical Academy that really help showcase the arts to teachers, parents and other students? Yeah.

[Noah Bush]

So one of the things that I'm very passionate about as the director of fine arts here is having our concerts or showcases be a blended and collaborative process that incorporates all of the arts. Many times, I think many public schools make the mistake of compartmentalizing the arts. As we were talking about earlier, where, oh, they'll have this art showcase here and this music showcase there, and they have nothing to do with each other. And I think that is a tremendous oversight. And so here at occa, all of our concerts feature as many of the arts and as many of our students work as we can fit in there. So for instance, at our concerts, we have a gallery show, we have students artwork that is relevant to whatever the theme of our concert is displayed all around the room. During the concert, we have students who come up and do poetry recitations, and it's all combined into one concerted effort to make sure that our students, our audience, our parents, they know that we are unified as a school and that we have one vision for helping their students to better understand the world.

[Gina Capaldi]

Also, we just got put together a scholarship for one of our students to take art classes at a local art school, Laguna College of Art and Design. And it's just really enhancing her skills. And you can see the development. It's. It's wonderful. And to be able to do that is a gift. And it's a gift for us as a school. And it's a gift for our students as well. They do have to compete for it. But that's one of the ways that we also showcase our artists.

[Noah Bush]

And that student's work is going to be featured as part of the gallery show at our upcoming concert.

[Gina Capaldi]

Right.

[Noah Bush]

One of the other things that we do, Gina mentioned it briefly earlier, but one of the other main things that we do, the two of us, to blend the arts together, is we actually created a class, an elective here for high schoolers, that we call Fine Arts Through World Cultures. And we actually co teach the class. So both of us are instructors in this class. And we go through cultures from ancient times, all over the world to modern times. And we talk about how the arts are a core part of their culture, how they affect their culture, how they've affected their development as a group, as a people group. And so that's another unique way in which we show that we care about these two things, being married together, the art, the visual arts, and music.

[Scott Bertram]

And as we close our conversation today, is there one specific piece of advice you might give to schools who are trying to better connect their arts programs?

[Noah Bush]

I think my primary advice, which I've alluded to before, and it's not easy, but usually things that are valuable are not easy. You have to understand other teachers, disciplines almost as well as your own. And that doesn't mean that you understand the intricacies and the details of every event or work or whatever it is. But you have to work hard to fervently study the program guide outside of your subject. You need to talk to your co workers, ask them about what they teach, ask them to share their passion for their subject. As I've said before, the arts are best understood when they're connected to everything else. And so that requires work. You have to put in the effort to understand disciplines that maybe you don't have a professional background in.

[Gina Capaldi]

And I would add to that by saying I really think you should allow students to see you take the chances with the arts and really be creative with your approach to it as you collaborate with other teachers. I think that's really critical to the success of students and the school. I really do. It's really a beautiful thing to see.

[Scott Bertram]

Noah Bush is Upper School Music and Fine Arts Director at Orange County Classical Academy. Gita Capaldi is art, art history studio arts teacher also at Orange County Classical in Orange, California. Thanks to both of you for joining us today here on the Hillsdale College K12 Classical Education Podcast.

[Gina Capaldi]

Thank you.

[Noah Bush]

Thank you very much.

[Scott Bertram]

I'm Scott Bertram. We invite you to like us on Facebook search for Hillsdale College K12 classical education. You also can follow us on Instagram hillsdalek12. That's hillsdalek12 on Instagram. Thank you for listening to The Hillsdale College K12 classical education podcast, part of the Hillsdale College Podcast Network. More at Podcast Hillsdale. Edu or wherever you get your audio.