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Balancing Priorities: A Humanities Major's Journey into Medicine
00:20:47
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- [00:01]
A
Great books, great people, great ideas. Learning about these things is critical to being a well educated human being. And we can help with the Hillsdale Dialogues. Each week, Hillsdale College President Larry Arne joins radio veteran Hugh Hewitt to discuss topics of enduring relevance. And from time to time, they also talk about current events, but always with an eye toward more fundamental truths. And they want you to tune in to a conversation like no other. The Hillsdale Dialogues are posted every Monday on the Hillsdale College Podcast Network at par podcast Hillsdale Edu. That's podcast Hillsdale Edu or listen via Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you find your audio.
- [00:54]
B
Hi there. My name is Chloe Knoller and I'm here on the beyond the Bubble podcast with career services interviewing Caroline Kopersky. Caroline, thank you so much for coming on today.
- [01:04]
C
Thank you so much for having me.
- [01:06]
B
Caroline, I'd love to just start off by asking you, what's your story? Tell us who you are, where you're from, how you got to Hillsdale and what you do now.
- [01:16]
C
Sure. So I went to Hillsdale for College, graduated in 2015. My family's from Virginia. I grew up in Syracuse, New York, but Virginia is kind of like home base for myself and my siblings. I had four siblings also go to Hillsdale. I majored in economics and Spanish and then my freshman year decided I wanted to be a physician assistant. So also was in the science department a lot, taking science classes, and then after I graduated went to PA School in Columbus, Ohio, got my master's and then worked full time in some urgent cares in Columbus for about four years. And then in 2023 we moved back to Hillsdale. My husband works at the college and I do telehealth from our home here in Jonesville.
- [02:05]
B
So you said you majored in Spanish and economics. What made you choose those majors?
- [02:11]
C
So when I started college, it was 2011 and the housing crisis and the recession of 2008 had kind of just happened three years earlier. And so I really just wanted to be able to understand what was going on and to be a more just educated person, to have an educated opinion in those areas. So funnily enough, that is what drew me to economics. And I started taking classes in the department and just really liked the department, the professors and the classes I was taking. And then for Spanish, I had taken a lot of Spanish in high school and ended up testing into a pretty high level. So I was only going to have to take eight classes to get the major. And I knew I wanted to study abroad, so that was Kind of how I decided on those two. And I think also I, I really like the idea of a liberal education and, you know, being, being well rounded. And so it was fun to be in a bunch of different departments and kind of be interdisciplinary in that way.
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B
So you said freshman year you decided you want to be a physician's assistant. What led you to that choice? How did you know that that's what.
- [03:17]
C
You wanted to do? So my dad is a physician, and in high school I was discussing with him going to med school, and he actually discouraged me from pursuing that route. He said, I know you and I think you are probably going to want to be home with your kids, if you have kids for some period of time. And he said, when I look at my colleagues, they've spent, you know, like $200,000 on school. They were in school after college for eight years with the four years of medical school, and then the four years of residency. And so then they have to work full time for a long time just to like pay back the debt. And he said, I think you might want something a little more flexible. So when I got to Hillsdale spring break my freshman year, my friend and I were talking and she, I was kind of explaining this to her and she was like, well, why don't you become a pa? And I was like, well, what's that? So I looked into it and thought sounded like the perfect kind of in between route so I could still be in medicine. But it was a two year, less than a. Or just a little bit over a two year master's program. A lot less money, no residency afterwards, and I could start working right away. And it has afforded me quite a lot of flexibility in terms of. So now I have three, three boys. And it really has helped just kind of make all that work. So I haven't had to send any of my kiddos to full time daycare, which I'm really grateful for and grateful for my dad's advice back in the day because I think he really was right that for me personally, that I wouldn't. It would have made me sad to have to do that. So, yeah, that's kind of the long answer to why I chose that.
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B
Do you feel like your Hillsdale education prepared you well for getting your master's afterwards?
- [05:08]
C
Yes, yes, I felt very well prepared for my PA program, you know, both in just in terms of the science classes I was taking, but also just in terms of being a well educated, a well rounded person. So there's one example where myself and some of my PA School classmates. We were doing. Practicing, like, doing a neuro exam, and one of the prompts was, say a proverb and see if the patient can interpret that. Like, to check if their abstract thinking is still intact. And so my PA school classmate was like, what's a proverb? And I was like, oh, my. I'm glad I know what a proverb is. And I'm sure just the education at Hillsdale helped me know that, but far beyond that. So I've just been grateful for. Definitely grateful for my Hillsdale education because I do feel like I was very well prepared for PA school and just for. For life in general and for medical practice afterwards as well.
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B
What else were you involved in on campus while you were here?
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C
So I was in Kappa Kappa Gamma, so I joined my sophomore year, I was a lifeguard and taught swim lessons. I was the photographer for the theater department, and I think that's it.
- [06:29]
B
What drew you to wanting to become a physician's assistant?
- [06:33]
C
I've always been interested in the sciences, particularly medicine, with having my dad do what he does. He's an anesthesiologist, and so he would play this game kind of at dinner, at, like, family dinner, where he would bring home, like, once he brought home a hip, like a replacement hip joint. So like a piece, like a titanium hip joint. And he was. He said he would give a quarter to anyone who could guess what it was. So he was always doing things like that. We got to shadow him as high schoolers, like, at the hospital and going to different surgeries and stuff. So I had a lot of exposure to healthcare as a teen and just found it so fascinating. So that was one part of it. But I think I also. I like problem solving a lot, and I like people, and I like helping people. And so kind of the combination of those things was what led me to wanting to become a PA because it sort of blended all three of those interests, and it truly has been very fulfilling in all of those ways. I feel like I'm constantly learning. You know, medicine is constantly changing, so I'm constantly learning new things, which just keeps me engaged and interested in what I'm doing. Getting to interact with my patients on a daily basis is also just fulfilling and engaging and feeling like I'm helping and making a difference, and then just the problem solving of being presented with my patient's symptoms and examining them and just, like, putting together the pieces of the puzzle, like, what is going on and what are the tools that I have to best help them. So all those things have just been Kind of present in this career. And I've really enjoyed it for those reasons.
- [08:22]
B
So you have quite a few certifications as a pa. You also worked as a nurse assistant in college. How, how did you balance all of that? Did you get your certifications after your undergrad education during or during your PA school? How did you balance all of that?
- [08:37]
C
I didn't work as a nurse's aide in college. I did volunteer at Hillsdale Hospital as a patient care coordinator in the er. And I was just kind of checking in on patients, seeing if anyone needed like a warm blanket or coffee or anything like that. So I just did that every Saturday while I was in college. And then after college, I stuck around Hillsdale for about 10 months and worked as a nurse's aide in the Hillsdale County Medical Care Facility, which is the long term care facility kind of up behind the bowling alley. And that was a really, really good experience. I worked on the kind of the locked unit with the memory care unit, and that just some of my best stories of my whole career were actually from working there and just really enjoyed getting to know the patients over there. And so then PE school requires a certain amount of patient hours ahead of time. So that's where I got most of those hours. I did a little bit of home care as well in the Hillsdale area, going into people's homes and helping with bathing and kind of getting around the home. So then after PA school, the main certifications that I got have to do with like cpr, that type of thing. Otherwise, the PA profession is nice because it does not require a residency or specific certification. So you have to be board certified. So you take the boards every 10 years. But otherwise there's not a lot of additional certifications or testing that are required, which is nice. So in terms of how I balanced it all, whether I was in college or after PA school, I think I didn't do a great job in college. One of the things that got sacrificed was sleep, which was not probably good for me. I got everything done that I needed to, but probably should have prioritized sleep a little bit more. So my husband and I got married about 10 months after graduation and I was already accepted into PA school. And he was like, I want you to just promise me you're going to get at least seven hours of sleep a night. And so I really made that a priority in PA school. And it was a good discipline to, for me to work on because I had several classmates in PA school who pulled like, one of my classmates pulled like 25 all nighters over the course of the program and just was always kind of sad and miserable because she was so tired. So I was grateful that my husband kind of gave me that challenge. And I wish I had done that in college because it did just force me to make sleep a priority and. But also to be more disciplined in how I was using my time and how I was studying and just made me be a lot more intentional with my time. So I feel like that discipline has helped, has kind of carried over into my. My life.
- [11:25]
B
Now I know that, like, a typical route to getting into the healthcare world would be majoring in biochem or biology or chemistry. Why did you choose Spanish and economics over a biochem major or something like that?
- [11:41]
C
My route was a little unusual. Most PA programs require about probably like 40 to 45 credits in the sciences, so I took about 40 science credits at Hillsdale. So probably the easier way for me would have been to major in biology, chemistry, or biochem. And. And then I would have gotten most of the prerequisites out of the way by turning it into a major, but it's not required. So the one thing I didn't get at Hillsdale was the research that the science majors get to do in the summer. I didn't do a research project or anything like that, but it was not required for getting into a PA program. So, yeah, there definitely, like, unconventional ways to do it like I did or the easier way probably would be to major in a science.
- [12:39]
B
For students looking to get into this field, what would you recommend? Did you find that you had. I mean, you know, you mentioned your. Your proverb story, but did you find that you wished you had majored in biochem or biology or chemistry or something like that when you were in PA school?
- [12:55]
C
No, I really didn't. I loved the way I used my time at Hillsdale in terms of the classes I took. And yeah, I did not regret the way I did it. So I would say, like, if you want to major in something besides the science, that's definitely a possibility. If you have other interests or passions or even if you want to use a PA degree in some other way, like if you want to start your own practice and so you want to pair that with like a finance or marketing major or something like that at wholesale. But no, I don't regret it at all. I loved the way I did it and would definitely encourage students that it is possible if you don't want to major in a science. But what I would say is if you are thinking about or interested in going to PA school. What I recommend is make a list of the programs, the PA programs that you are interested in applying to. What I did was I made a massive spreadsheet and I wrote down, you know, every single program that I was planning on applying to and I wrote down all of the prerequisite classes that were going to be required because it's, it's a little bit different for every single program. So then I just kind of like went through my spreadsheet and then narrowed down the list of what programs I wanted to apply to by the ones that I would already have the prerequisites for, if that makes sense. So that would be something I would recommend regardless of what you major in. Just to kind of figure out what are all the requirements of the different programs that you are interested in applying to.
- [14:28]
B
So you talked a lot about the volunteer experience you got before you went to PA school. So for people looking to get into this line of work, what internships, job shadowing, volunteering would you recommend before attending PA school?
- [14:41]
C
So most of the programs, like I said, requirements 1 to 2000 patient care hours and different programs, they'll give you a list of what professions they will accept. And I had a good experience as a nurse's aide. But what I would recommend, it kind of gave me like good bedside manner experience, just relating with, with patients on a personal level. It wasn't the best, I guess, medical experience. So one that I would recommend, two that I would recommend, actually. One is being an ER tech. My classmates in PA school who had been ER techs just had great, just a great background coming in as well as working as like an EMT would be my other recommendation. And then in terms of volunteer, volunteer stuff, certainly if you can find something that's volunteering in something that's healthcare adjacent, that would be awesome. But honestly, I think any volunteer experience will be looked upon. Well, the program I went to was Ohio Dominican in Columbus, Ohio, and they are a Catholic program and they really have a priority on missions and service. And so they really like the fact that I had gone on submissions trips before. So that's another thing to kind of think about. If you have the opportunity to do missions or even like to go along on a medical missions trip just as a volunteer, that would be, you know, just fantastic experience and just a great thing to draw on to kind of set yourself apart and explain why you're passionate about, you know, wanting to be a PA when you do go to apply.
- [16:13]
B
Earlier you mentioned that your dad kind of discouraged you from going into the medical field because he knew you and your desire to be a mom and to, you know, raise your children yourself and be home with them. So what would you say to women looking to get into the medical field? How have you found that physician's assistant job has, lets you be flexible with that. You say you have three boys now and you get to work in telehealth. For women looking at in the field, what encouragement would you give them?
- [16:43]
C
Sure. Yeah. So I do think, I think my dad was probably being a little too narrow minded with his advice. But just the general advice he gave I think was good. I do think it is important just to kind of like if you do desire to have, have kids and have a family and maybe you, you don't want to be, you know, away from them all day every day of the work week. I do think it is important to just think about the different options that are out there. So for me Personally, the PA career has been great. PAs can work in pretty much any area of medicine. So unlike being a physician, you, you know, when you're a physician you come out in your board certified in one particular specialty. As a PA you can work in any specialty you want and you can switch between them. So that offers a lot of flexibility especially because different specialties have different, different ways they, they divide up the work week. So you know, if you choose to, to go into surgery, probably that's going to be a five day a week position plus call on the weekends with probably irregular hours. But if you choose to go into, you know, let's say urgent care world, that's three shifts a week. If you choose to go into, you know, the icu, a lot of times the ICU breaks it up with like seven days on, seven days off or there are also a lot of night shift options in the icu. So anyway, opening, kind of opening yourself up to being able to work in lots of different specialties is really helpful because you could start off your career before you have kids in a family in one area and then when you do have kids it can kind of the career can flex to make other options available. And there are also a lot of part time opportunities which is helpful. So what I do is I work, I'm full time, so I work three. I actually work at night. I work three nights a week from home. So I start my shift at midnight and then I'm done by like 10 or 11am on those three nights that I work. So the only time I need child care is kind of between my kids waking up and then me finishing my shift on those three mornings, which has been really helpful. And then I can also, I have a 4 month old. I can also like get up and nurse him in the middle of the night and take like a quick break from my shift. So this particular job I have has been incredibly flexible and I've just been so grateful for it. So that's kind of my situation. But I've also known people who went to med school and who have also found, you know, considered carefully what specialty they wanted to go into and have found their own ways of making their careers compatible with, with, you know, a family. So I know of a pediatrician who found a job where she works six 24 hour shifts a month. So then the other like 25 days of the month, she's just home full time with her kids. And I think she even homeschools, but she's still technically full time. So there are just lots of creative ways to make it work. The nurse practitioner route is also a great option for. It's very similar to the PA profession in terms of just that flexibility. And then working in nursing as a nurse as well also offers that flexibility. So I feel like most careers in kind of healthcare in general kind of do carry this flexibility of being able to still pursue a career, work full time, but also kind of balance it with having a family if that's something that you want.
- [20:05]
B
We're almost out of time. But knowing what you know now, is there anything that you would change with your education or the experience you've gotten, or what would be the last piece of advice you'd give to someone looking to get into the medical field?
- [20:18]
C
Probably lots of little things, some of which I've alluded to, you know, maybe working as an ER tech instead of a nurse's aide just to get a little bit of better experience, you know, getting more sleep in college, like I alluded to. Yeah, I feel like, I feel like Hillsdale really did prepare me very well just in terms of, you know, we all work, we all work so hard at Hillsdale. And that's just been. That just was really good experience for coming out and being well prepared just to kind of tackle, tackle life and tackle the career. And the phrase, we all know strength rejoices in the challenge, like it really is true. And there really is a lot of benefit to be gained from challenging yourself at Hillsdale. And I do think that really does pay off later in life. So as long as you can know, challenge yourself in a healthy way. Where you're still getting sleep and eating. I think that challenge that we all have and had at Hillsdale just as great preparation for continuing on in life and a career.
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B
Thank you so much, Caroline. We really appreciate you coming on.
- [21:21]
C
Thank you again for having me.
- [21:22]
B
I've been Chloe Knoller with the beyond the bowl podcast at Career Services. This was Caroline Kapersky. Thank you so much.