Churchill’s The Second World War, Part Seventeen

Summary

Podcast Summary: Churchill’s The Second World War, Part Seventeen

Podcast: Hillsdale College Podcast Network Superfeed
Host: Hugh Hewitt
Guest: Dr. Larry Arnn, President of Hillsdale College
Date: January 19, 2026
Episode Focus: A close reading of chapters 19 ("Prague, Albania and the Polish Guarantee") and 20 ("The Soviet Enigma") of Winston Churchill’s The Gathering Storm, first volume of his WWII memoirs.

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Overview

This episode deepens the ongoing exploration of Winston Churchill’s six-volume history of World War II, focusing on the political missteps and turning points leading up to the outbreak of war in 1939. Hugh Hewitt and Dr. Larry Arnn discuss the consequences of appeasement, the moral and strategic choices of British leaders, the shocking transformation of Neville Chamberlain, the complexities of British-Soviet diplomacy, and the personal qualities that set Churchill apart from his contemporaries.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Study Churchill and His Memoirs?

• Churchill as Statesman: Dr. Arnn underscores Churchill’s remarkable foresight and unique position as both historian and participant.
• Modern Relevance: The discussion opens on how the technological and bureaucratic developments of the 20th century have made totalitarianism more potent—and how Churchill’s insights continue to be a guide for evaluating war and governance today.
  • “Scientifically armed tyranny is an ancient phenomenon…now it can be much more comprehensive because technology makes it possible.” (Dr. Arnn, 01:18)
• Churchill the "Warmonger": Hewitt and Arnn counter the modern portrayal of Churchill as a warmonger, highlighting his efforts to prevent war and minimize its devastation.

2. Churchill’s Role Before the War

• Churchill spent the 1930s actively warning against the dangers posed by Nazi Germany, advocating for British rearmament, and was largely ignored by his party and government.
• Quote: “He spent all of the 30s warning Britain, trying to get Britain to rearm to prevent war...He tried to stop it.” (Hewitt, 04:57)
• His outsider status left him “way out in the cold” when events came to a head.

3. British Leadership: Strengths and Shortcomings

• The Chamberlain Paradox: Hewitt questions the character and resilience of British leaders in contrast with their adventurous forebears. Dr. Arnn agrees that while Britain retained more energy than some contemporaries (e.g., Europe), Chamberlain eventually showed unexpected resolve after Hitler’s breach of the Munich Agreement.
• Quote: “Churchill writes later in this book that Neville Chamberlain proved to have a lot of steel in him. And that's in this chapter that we're reading right now.” (Dr. Arnn, 08:40)
• Memorable Critiques: Mussolini’s diary dismisses British leaders as lacking the steel of past generations—an image Dr. Arnn partly contests for Chamberlain.

4. The Road to War: Munich, Czechoslovakia, and Poland

• Historical Sequence:
  • After the Munich Agreement (late 1938), Hitler invades Czechoslovakia (March 1939), discrediting appeasement.
  • Chamberlain hesitates, then guarantees Poland’s independence—decisively but belatedly—after being “a new man” post-Munich betrayal (13:38–15:50).
• Appraisal of Appeasement: Churchill’s devastating summary (read aloud by Dr. Arnn) catalogs what the Allies “successively accepted or thrown away,” including lost alliances, abandoned defenses, and opportunities neglected.
  • Quote: "...we now reach our climax. That we should have come to this pass makes those responsible, however honorable their motives, blameworthy before history." (Churchill, read by Dr. Arnn, 16:24)
  • “All gone with the wind.” (Churchill, quoted by Dr. Arnn, 18:14)

5. Political Courage and the "Boneless Wonder"

• Churchill’s acerbic wit: He likens limp politicians to grotesque circus acts, notably the “boneless wonder,” a notorious jibe at British political inaction.
  • Quote: “[I]n another one he says…sitting on the treasury bench, the boneless wonder.” (Dr. Arnn, 19:23)
• Discussion transitions to contemporary U.S. politics, comparing past British political feebleness with modern American leadership variation.

6. The Soviet Enigma and the Road to the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact

• Molotov and Churchill’s Impressions: Churchill described Molotov as a “robot” diplomat with “cold blooded ruthlessness,” and acknowledges his survival and skill among Stalin’s inner circle.
  • Quote: "…a man of outstanding ability and cold blooded ruthlessness. I have never seen a human being who more perfectly represented the modern conception of a robot." (Churchill, cited by Hewitt, 23:24)
• British-Soviet Diplomatic Failure: Britain’s half-hearted overtures to the USSR (sending a low-level emissary, “Strange”) pushed Stalin toward Hitler, resulting in the August 23, 1939 Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.
  • Quote: "Chamberlain sent a man named Strange... Hitler sent Ribbentrop...and so it just was a half measure, right?" (Dr. Arnn, 31:07)
  • Stalin’s realpolitik: He would ally, in turn, with every major power during WWII.

7. Totalitarian Fear and Life under Stalin

• The episode moves to discuss the climate of terror under Stalin, referencing Darkness at Noon and Solzhenitsyn’s The First Circle.
• The purges, ever-present threat of death, and the mutual suspicion that marked Soviet leadership are described vividly.
  • Quote: “If you take the people who were near Joseph Stalin…there’s one who survived all that, and that’s Molotov.” (Dr. Arnn, 24:03)
  • “If you read the opening chapters of Solzhenitsyn’s great novel...he never knows if he’ll leave under sentence of death.” (Dr. Arnn, 28:12)

8. The British Spirit – Churchill’s Perspective

• Churchill’s character study of the British is lauded in his lines about the nation becoming less nervous as danger draws near and remaining fearless under threat. Hewitt quotes Churchill’s reflection that the British, once truly pressed, show unparalleled resolve.
  • Quote: “When it is imminent that they are fierce. When it is mortal, they are fearless.” (Churchill, quoted by Hewitt, 35:15)
• Details Churchills own preparations for assassination threats during this fraught prewar period, exemplifying his personal courage and readiness.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Modern Totalitarian Threats:
  “Now it can be much more comprehensive because technology makes it possible...everything can be monitored all the time.”
  — Dr. Larry Arnn (01:18)

• On Churchill’s Outsider Status:
  “I had therefore, no responsibility for the past or for any want of preparation now apparent. On the contrary, I had for the last six or seven years been a continual prophet of evils...”
  — Winston Churchill, read by Hugh Hewitt (04:57)

• On British Appeasement:
  “We now reach our climax. That we should have come to this pass makes those responsible, however honorable their motives, blameworthy before history. ...All gone with the wind.”
  — Dr. Larry Arnn reads Churchill (16:24–18:14)

• On Parliamentary Insults:
  “He spies across the treasury, across the dispatch table, sitting on the treasury bench, the boneless wonder.”
  — Dr. Larry Arnn quoting Churchill (19:36)

• On Molotov:
  “A man of outstanding ability and cold blooded ruthlessness. I have never seen a human being who more perfectly represented the modern conception of a robot...”
  — Winston Churchill, quoted by Hugh Hewitt (23:24)

• On British Spirit:
  “When it is imminent, that they are fierce. When it is mortal, they are fearless.”
  — Churchill, quoted by Hugh Hewitt (35:15)

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Key Timestamps

• 00:29–04:56 – Introduction; why Churchill matters; technology, tyranny, and war
• 04:57–06:10 – Rebuttal to the “Churchill was a warmonger” myth
• 07:14–09:04 – Mussolini’s critique of British leadership; Chamberlain’s surprising steel
• 12:30–13:37 – Setting the moment: post-Munich, Hitler’s betrayal, Chamberlain’s reaction
• 16:24–18:14 – Churchill's summary of appeasement; consequences of diplomatic failure
• 19:23–19:51 – “Boneless wonder”: Churchill's harshest invective
• 23:02–24:27 – Churchill on the Soviets; Molotov as survivor and diplomat
• 27:20–30:23 – Tyranny under Stalin; Darkness at Noon; survival in the Soviet court
• 31:01–33:32 – The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact and its significance; wartime alliances
• 35:15–36:49 – Churchill on British resolve in crisis; personal anecdotes of readiness

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Tone and Language

• The dialogue is erudite, incisive, and at times bitingly humorous, imitating Churchill’s own style.
• Dr. Arnn is candid but deeply respectful of the complexity of political judgments, while Hewitt drives the discussion with a mix of admiration and historical inquiry.
• The episode is rich with historical asides, literary references, and Churchillian quotations, giving listeners a vivid sense of both the personalities and the stakes of the era.

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Summary Takeaways

• Churchill was neither a warmonger nor complacent; he was an active, lonely voice for prudence and preparedness in face of oncoming disaster.
• The failures of appeasement and missed diplomatic alliances with the USSR critically shaped the outbreak of World War II.
• The personal character of leaders—from Chamberlain’s late-found steel to Molotov’s cold cunning—had profound impact.
• Churchill’s writings remain a roadmap and a warning: understanding circumstances, acting with fortitude, and learning from history are crucial for both statesmen and citizens today.

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For more discussions in this series, visit hughforhillsdale.com, or access the entire Hillsdale College Podcast Network online.

Transcript

[Narrator]

Every week, Hillsdale College president Larry Arne joins Hugh Hewitt to discuss great books, great men and great ideas. This is Hillsdale Dialogues, part of the Hillsdale College Podcast Network. More episodes at podcast Hillsdale. Edu or wherever you find your audio.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Morning Glory and Evening Grace America. I'm Hugh Hewitt. That music means the Hillsdale Dialogue is upon us. The last radio hour of the week. I'm joined by Dr. Larry Arn, President of Hillsdale College. And today we are doing part 16 in our series on this volume of Winston Churchill's six volume World War II history, the one called the Gathering Storm. Dr. Arne, we introduced you and me to the audience last week, the new audience and all the affiliates. We picked up a word before we dive into chapter 19 and 20 of this book, which concludes book one of the first volume. Why are we spending so much time on Winston Churchill's memoirs?

[Dr. Larry Arnn]

Well, they're great. Churchill himself is, in my opinion, the greatest statesman in our time. And what's different about our time from previous history, eras of human history, is that we live in a time dominated by technology, by government forms that intensify because of that. And the most extreme form is called totalitarianism. That's tyranny. Scientifically armed tyranny is an ancient phenomenon. As long as there have been people, there have been tyrants. And now it can be much more comprehensive because technology makes it possible. Surveillance, the gathering of power, and the milder form of that is the administrative, bureaucratic form which dominates the Western world. Now, China itself has a form of it, too. And that means that everything is regulated and everything can be regulated, everything can be watched, everything can be monitored all the time. And then, and that's in domestic politics, that change, which Churchill saw as a massive change, that change also comes to war because war has always been destructive, but now with modern weapons, it can be comprehensively destructive. Churchill writes a tremendous essay worth reading called Shall We All Commit Suicide? I think we read it on the show and he says in there that, you know, when we fought with clubs and swords, there was a limit to the damage we can use. Do what about the nuclear bomb. The last big speech he gave in his career in 1955 was called the Deterrent Nuclear Warfare. And it concerns what are we going to do about the hydrogen bomb? And. And he says that with the explosion of the hydrogen bomb, a bigger bomb than the more simple atomic bomb, same kind of thing, we enter a period both measureless and laden with doom. So one of the travesties that's good to correct on this show is that there's a bunch of claims that have grown up and become rather famous that Churchill was a warm. In truth, he spent his life trying to prevent these big wars and trying to limit the damage they did on all his life and wrote about it incessantly. And so if you read this book, this book is Churchill's history of the biggest war in history, the Second World War, in which he was the leader and a decisively important leader. And you will see that he, in this volume that we're reading, he worked like a man for a decade to try to avoid that war as he did the First World War before it. He failed, and then he tried to win it in the cheapest way possible. And that's a lesson we can learn today. How do you make judgments about this grave thing of war, which are just as grave and more sudden and intense than the grave things that arise in politics all the time? How do you think about whether Donald Trump made a good deal going down to Venezuela? Well, it depends in part on how it works it out, works out the manner of thinking about it. The pattern is set in many places. But this book is very great and you can see how you have to think about things like this. How do you make the judgments? And the judgments depend on the circumstances. There's no universal rule for making them. But this shows you how to look at the circumstances and how to think about them.

[Hugh Hewitt]

It's a revelation on many levels about his energy, his capacity and his prudence. I'll jump ahead and we'll come back to this again next week, but I want to the point you made about Churchill being a warmonger. He spent all of the 30s warning Britain, trying to get Britain to rearm to prevent war. And in next week, we'll cover where he writes, he's invited to war cabinet after Hitler invades Poland and Chamberlain is obliged to ask him to take over and he asks him to take the Admiralty. We'll come to that next week. But Churchill writes, I had not held public office for nearly 11 years when the war began. I had therefore, no responsibility for the past or for any want of preparation now apparent. On the contrary, I had for the last six or seven years been a continual prophet of evils which had now in larger measure come to pass. So not only is he not a warmonger, he. He's got nothing to do with the start of World War II. He tried to stop it. And you and I make this point again and again because there is about now an attempt to paint Churchill as a villain, as indifferent to war, as someone who could have prevented this. And he was not in a position to do any of that at all. He was out, way out in the cold.

[Dr. Larry Arnn]

Yeah, he was a Conservative, the member of the oldest and largest political party in Britain. It's the oldest party in the world, but the largest in Britain at that time. And the alternative was the Socialist Party, with which he didn't have good relations, and they were of no help. And so he was a romp in the ruling party and they had no requirement to listen to him, except one, and that was he was very good at rallying public opinion because he was an eloquent man and a brilliant writer, eloquent in speech and writing. And he built the following with sort of his own two hands, his mouth. And he built pressure throughout the 30s on the government to rearm itself and get ready in order, first to deter the war, but second to win it if you got to fight it. And that had an effect. It didn't have enough effect to prevent the war, but it had an effect that they could survive it by the skin of their teeth, which they did.

[Hugh Hewitt]

In these two chapters we're doing today, chapters 19, Prague, Albania and the Polish guarantee. In chapter 20, the Soviet enigma, he records that Neville Chamberlain, who was the Prime Minister before him, kept trying personal diplomacy. Chamberlain and Lord Halifax, the Foreign Secretary, flew to Italy to meet with Mussolini and his foreign minister, Count Schiano, I believe. In January of 1939, nine months before the invasion of Poland, Mussolini writes in his diary, just this comment is, these men are not made of the same stuff as Francis Drake and all the other magnificent adventurers who created the empire. They are all the tired sons of a long line of rich men. Can the same be said of a lot of America today, Dr. Arne?

[Dr. Larry Arnn]

Sure. Not all of it. I think that we still have. If you compare us to, you know, the big comparisons are two obvious ones. Europe, we certainly got a lot more energy than they've got. And China, do we have more energy than Chinese? I think that's the test for the time. Is our innovation and adventuresomeness going to prove to be a match for a country three times our population that is very disciplined and very intelligent and very, you know, innovative in their way? And so that's the test, right? I think it's true. Churchill later says, you know, I think this characteristic, this characterization by Mussolini is probably more true of Stanley Baldwin than it was of Neville Chamberlain. Because Churchill writes later in this book that Neville Chamberlain proved to have a lot of steel in him. And that's in when it begins. That's in this chapter that we're reading right now.

[Hugh Hewitt]

It's on page 309. Don't go run. Find page 309 if you can, but don't go anywhere. I'm going to be right back with Dr. Arne. It's the second Hills Tale dialogue of 2026. Want to remind everyone who's new to the program with our new affiliates everywhere. The dialogues began last broadcast hour of every week in in January of 2013. So there are a whole bunch of Hillsdale dialogues and they are on everything from Homer to Last week's dialogue was on the current events of 2026. If you want to find them, go to hughforhillsdale.com h u g h f o r hillsdale.com if you want to find all things Hillsdale include sign up for Imprimis, the monthly Speech Digest, which is absolutely free. All the online courses. That's all at Hillsdale. Edu as our application for those of you who are in your senior year or junior year starting to think about your college education, Hillsdale Edu. If you just want to continue your own education, head over to Hillsdale. Edu and stay tuned to the CU Hewlett Show.

[Narrator]

Classical music is one of the greatest achievements of Western civilization. It took 2,000 years and the work of the greatest philosophical, scientific, political and religious minds to properly tune the piano and make great music possible. But classical music can be intimidating. In Hillsdale College's new free online course, the History of Classical Chopin Through Gershwin, you'll learn how to appreciate humanity's greatest musical accomplishments in the history of classical music. Concert pianist and Hillsdale College Distinguished Fellow Hyperion Knight explains how music has developed and what distinguishes the greatest musical achievements of Western civilization. To enroll today and secure your spot in this completely free online course, visit hillsdale.edu network. That's hillsdale Eduardo Network.

[Bill Gray]

Hi there, it's Bill Gray from Hillsdale College. Before you skip ahead, can I ask you a question or two? If you could teach 50 million Americans one thing, what would it be? Would you teach our great American story that this nation is unique, founded on self government and individual liberty? Maybe you would teach the truth about free enterprise, how hard work and opportunity allow anyone to rise. Or would you teach the gospel and the Christian faith that helps us live good and meaningful lives? At Hillsdale College, we're doing exactly that, teaching the best that's been taught and said through our free online courses. K12 programs Imprimis podcasts and more. We reach and teach millions every year with the principles of liberty that make America free. And with your help, we can reach even more. Your tax deductible gift today will help us teach millions more people to pursue truth and defend liberty. Just text the word give to 7 1844. You'll get a secure link to make your donation in seconds. That's give to 718 44. Thank you for standing with us. Now back to the show.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Welcome back, America. I'm Hugh Hewitt. The Hillsdale dialogue is underway. All of them are collected@hughforhillsdale. As I said at the end of the last segment, we've been doing these since 2013, but we've been in Churchill's World War II memoirs for about a year now, so maybe we set the stage a little bit. Let me give the audience the historical background. The Munich agreement is late 1938, and Hitler breaches it in March of 1939 and invades the rest of Czechoslovakia. And Poland jumps as Hungary on the remnants of poor Czechoslovakia. And Chamberlain, Chamberlain doesn't really acquit himself well on March 17th of 1939, but then he guarantees Poland March 31st. And Churchill writes, if Hitler failed to understandif Chamberlain failed to understand Hitler. Hitler completely underrated the nature of the British prime minister. He did not realize that Neville Chamberlain had a very hard core and that he did not like being cheated. That's what you're referring to, correct?

[Dr. Larry Arnn]

The steps are a little complex, but not too bad. The munich agreements of October 3rd and 4th of 1938 basically guaranteed the integrity of the remaining parts of Czechoslovakia. Germany got some borderlands that turned out to be strategically very important. And so there's a guarantee now. And when Hitler breached the agreement in March, so November, December, January, February, March, five months later, shortly after that, within days, Slovakia, which is today separate from the Czech Republic, declared itself a separate nation. And Chamberlain then took the view that that relieved Britain of its obligation to guarantee the integrity of the country. And so it looked like he wasn't going to act. And then Churchill writes in this chapter about a speech, big speech that Chamberlain is going to give in Birmingham, the second biggest city in England and the home country of the Chamberlains. And so it's going to be a very important speech. And Churchill is dreading the speech because he thinks that Chamberlain is going to say, have I not been clever? I've kept us out of all this. You know, we would have been fighting for Czechoslovakia if we, we hadn't made my deal. And Chamberlain does not do that he surprises Churchill. Churchill writes suddenly as by an explosion, his faith and all that had followed them from his actions and his arguments were shattered. Chamberlain was a new man and that's why he gave the guarantee to Poland, which was a very impractical thing to do compared to giving a guarantee to Czechoslovakia, which was a much stronger country and nearer and possible to reach maybe and cooperate with in a war with Germany. And they had a big military industry in those. And the border that they gave up when they gave territory to Germany was heavily fortified and concerned the bulk of the Czech arms industry. So he let a more valuable thing and more easily, very difficult to defend, but a more easily defensible thing go away. And then he gave a guarantee to a harder thing. And that can only be explained by an amazing stiffening of resolve in Chamberlain.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Now, before we cheated, before we move on to what happens with the Polish guarantee, on page 310 of this, Churchill summarizes appeasement. I sent you the clip. I don't know if you kept it handy, if you wanted to read it because this is just amazing. Summary statement of appeasement. Do you have that handy nearby?

[Dr. Larry Arnn]

I.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Do you want to read that? I think. I think it's very important.

[Dr. Larry Arnn]

In this sad tale of wrong judgments formed by well meaning and capable people, we now reach our climax that we should have come to the this pass makes those responsible, however honorable, their motives blameworthy before history look back and see what we had successfully accepted or thrown away. A Germany disarmed by solemn treaty. A Germany rearmed in violation of solemn treaty. Air superiority even air parity cast away. The Rhineland forcibly occupied and the Siegfried line built or building. That's the defense along the German border from attack from the west, from France and the low Countries. The Berlin Rome axis established. Austria devoured and digested by the Reich. Czechoslovakia deserted and ruined by the Munich Pact. Its fortress line in German hands. Its mighty arsenal of Skoda. The Skoda famous Skoda arms. There's Skoda cars being produced today, henceforward making munitions for the German armies. President Roosevelt's effort to stabilize or bring to a head the European situation by the intervention of the United States waved aside with one hand and Soviet Russia's undoubted willingness to join the Western powers and go all links to have Czechoslovakia ignored on the other. So they could have got Russia and they could have saved Czechoslovakia and they let both get away. The services of 35 Czech divisions against the still unripened German army. 35 divisions that Britain had seven or eight divisions cast away when Great Britain could herself supply only 2 to strengthen the front in France. All gone with the wind.

[Hugh Hewitt]

That's a summary. What a damning summary. Wow.

[Dr. Larry Arnn]

Yeah, that's just not, you know, that's, there's a, there are two speeches. This is, this is, it's a little bit, Churchill's a little bit like Rembrandt. Rembrandt. There's some wonderful sketches that Rembrandt did that later became, you know, pencil sketches, really often just a few lines and then later become an element in some master oil. You know, there's a, I once saw an exhibit at the Art Institute that showed how he did this. He was drafting, right. Well, there are two speeches in the 30s, this puts me in mind of. And in one of them, the phrase of four square for drift, adamant for alteration, he describes the, the Baldwin administration. And in another one he says that when he was a boy, his father would take him to the circus and he would go look at the grotesque displays, you know, the two headed man and stuff like that. But there was one, he said that his father, it was so awful that his father would never let him look at it. And he always was curious. And he said, now he's lived into his age and at last he spies across the treasury, across the dispatch table, sitting on the treasury bench, the boneless wonder.

[Hugh Hewitt]

That's very, that's harsh. But it probably got a laugh because parliamentary politics are not for the genteel and it's pretty brass knuckled. And Churchill took his punches and he gave his punches as well. Boneless wonder is one of them. Don't go anywhere. We continue on in Winston Churchill's first volume of his six volume World War II memoir with Dr. Leon, President of Hillsdale College. All things Hillsdale at Hillsdale. Edu. All the prior Dialogues back to 2013. There are hundreds of them on every topic can be found@q for hillsdale.com Stay tuned. Welcome back, America. I left you with the the image of a boneless wonder in your head because Dr. Arn and I were talking about that. Well, now, I don't want to call President Biden a boneless wonder. I believe his infirmity was sad and obvious and is ongoing and he's ill, so I wish him well. And I don't want to compare Trump to Churchill, but I do want to compare energetic administration of the United States to hapless administration of the United States. And I think under President Obama, we had hapless administration in the United States from red lines that were not enforced and the JCPOA and Obamacare to Trump's first term, which was beset by an adversarial Congress and by permanent administrative state that was determined to destroy him. And then we had Biden, which may be the low point of presidential coherence for four years and infirmity, and now followed by Trump. And we're vacillating between boneless wonders and energetic executives. Dr. Arnt, can that keep going on endlessly?

[Dr. Larry Arnn]

Yeah, well, we're. No, it can't. One of my beliefs about American history, about history in general, is especially if you live in a successful country or relatively successful, things don't change till they have to. And, you know, I was thinking when you said Biden might be the worst, I was thinking some bad ones in the 19th century, but it didn't matter as much back then, you know, except for the period of the Civil War, because the government wasn't doing everything. And we have had two shining examples in our lifetime of people who attempted general reforms of the American government back to a decentralized constitutionalism, which is really basically the direction that I favor in American politics. And one of them is Reagan and the other one is Trump. And things are harder now. And Trump has done a lot. He hasn't done all, but he's about the work every day, very hard. And so, you know, whatever there is not to like about him, and there's plenty I don't like about him, I like that. And I think that's the key, I think, and that's one reason why politics are so intense. C.S. lewis writes, you don't know how strong a thing is until you push against it. And this thing that is pushing, that Trump is pushing against is pushing back. And it's hard.

[Hugh Hewitt]

The last thing we have to cover before the actual opening of war and next week is Russia. And we talked about in episode 15, a little bit about Stalin, but some additional points. Churchill is almost effusive in his praise of Molotov, quote, a man of outstanding ability and cold blooded ruthlessness. I have never seen a human being who more perfectly represented the modern conception of a robot. And in the conduct of foreign affairs, Talleyrand and Metternich, great diplomats of the 19th century, would welcome him in their company. And then he adds, it is a tremendous thing, this question of an eastern front. So he's never not. He doesn't like the Soviets at all. He loathes the Soviets. Right. He hates them.

[Dr. Larry Arnn]

Yeah, yeah. Molotov, you know, came to see him and stayed with him in 10 Downing street and Churchill. It was reported to Churchill that in 10 Downing Street, Molotov slept with a pistol under his pencil under his pillow. And Churchill thought that very significant. That just showed what kind of life he lived. Right. And Molotov was a very clever man. And remember, if you take the people who were near Joseph Stalin from the beginning of the revolution until Stalin's death in 1951, if I remember the date correctly, there's one who survived all that, and that's Molotov.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Well, I didn't know that. And he was the only guy.

[Dr. Larry Arnn]

He's a very clever guy. Oh, yeah, very. He lived out his life and didn't do that walk that so many of them did down a hallway in a dungeon, knowing that before they got to the end of it. But at some point, unnamed and never marked, they would be shot in the back of the head.

[Hugh Hewitt]

That's a tough way to go. More on that after the break. Hillsdale Edu for all things Hillsdale. Hue for Hillsdale for all prior Hillsdale dialogue.

[Narrator]

Classical music is one of the greatest achievements of Western civilization. It took 2,000 years and the work of the greatest philosophical, scientific, political and religious minds to properly tune the piano and make great music possible. But classical music can be intimidating. In Hillsdale College's new free online course, the History of Classical Music, Chopin through Gershwin, you'll learn how to appreciate humanity's greatest musical accomplishments in the history of classical music. Concert pianist and Hillsdale College Distinguished fellow Hyperion Knight explains how music has developed and what distinguishes the greatest musical achievements of Western civilization. To enroll today and secure your spot in this completely free online course, visit Hillsdale. Edu Network. That's Hillsdale Edu Network.

[Bill Gray]

Hi there, it's Bill Gray from Hillsdale College. Before you skip ahead, can I ask you a question or two? If you could teach 50 million Americans one thing, what would it be? Would you teach our great American story that this nation is unique, founded on self government and individual liberty? Maybe you would teach the truth about free enterprise, how hard work and opportunity allow anyone to rise. Or would you teach the gospel and the Christian faith that helps us live good and meaningful lives? At Hillsdale College, we're doing exactly that, teaching the best that's been thought and said. Through our free online courses, K12 programs, Imprimis, podcasts and more, we reach and teach millions every year with the principles of liberty that make America free. And with your help, we can reach even more. Your tax deductible gift today will will help us teach millions more people to Pursue truth and defend liberty. Just text the word give to 718 44. You'll get a secure link to make your donation in seconds. That's give to 7, 1844. Thank you for standing with us. Now back to the show.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Welcome back, America. I'm Hugh Hewitt. Left you with another harsh image for the break. Walking down a dark hallway about to be shot in the back of the head. You know, if you, if everyone listening, if you're new to the Hillsdale dialogues, if you'll go back over to HughForHilsdale.com or wherever they're collected, you'll find Dr. Ahn and I talking about a book called Darkness at Noon, which is in his series on totalitarian novels. Are you teaching that this year, Dr. Arne?

[Dr. Larry Arnn]

I'm teaching Aristotle next term. I'm happy to report.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Oh, dear, those poor students. Someday we'll go to the politics, but not yet. We just finished Plato's Republic last year. So I'm not ready for something that up there. But Darkness is Noon is about that walk. It's about taking that walk and what happens before that walk. And Stalin would just, I guess he would torture them mentally before he executed them. Is that what that walk was?

[Dr. Larry Arnn]

Well, in the book, you know, first of all, it was torture to be, you know, first of all, what's it like to be in the court of a totalitarian tyrant? There's never any rest. There's always fear. If you read the opening chapters of Solzhenitsyn's great novel the First Circle, there's chapter four, if I remember correctly, a high functionary goes to report to Stalin and he's terrified and he does it every week and he never knows if he'll leave under sentence of death. And that's what it's like. Stalin was from Georgia.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Yes.

[Dr. Larry Arnn]

Which is sort of opposite the Crimea. And Stalin built a dacha down there. And we go down there, right. And there'd be these trains laden with riches. And Stalin's children have a childhood memory of people along the way begging for food on the train. And they were wondering, little children, why these people didn't have any food because they were surrounded by the greatest things to eat. Well, one of the reasons the trains were so big was because once Stalin is going to go spend time down there, then everybody else close to Stalin had to go build a dock down there close to him because they couldn't. And then once another one went, then they all had to go because they can't have somebody alone with Stalin for a long period of Time, you're always afraid that somebody is going to undercut you and get you killed and, you know, take your place. And so that's what life is like, right? And that's, you know, the key character in Darkness at Noon is named Rubachoff. In the novel he's actually a stand in for maybe the greatest of those that Stalin executed, a man named Bukharin and Bukharin had to live that life. And you know, one of the reasons he was killed was that by living that life you certify your, what obsequiousness. Not just your obedience, your supine obsequiousness.

[Hugh Hewitt]

What a horrible judgment. We got five minutes. I want to make sure we tell people this. As you read in that part, you read Stalin tried to do a deal with England and France and they rebuffed him. Chamberlain did. And so he does the obvious thing. He gets Molotov to sit down with Ribbentrop, who is Hitler's right hand diplomat, and they come up with the Stalin Hitler non aggression pact, sometime called the Ribbentrop Molotov pact. And it's announced on August 23rd. And that means what, doctor, August 23rd means what to the rest of the world?

[Dr. Larry Arnn]

Is that the atomic bomb?

[Hugh Hewitt]

That's when they announced, that's when they announced the Ribbentrop and Molotov. Oh, that.

[Dr. Larry Arnn]

Oh, I see, you're talking about in that year. Yeah, yeah, that's. Yeah. So Chamberlain. See, here's another point you can sort of divide up. There's a very good doctoral thesis by a man named Steve Marnin about the debate inside the Conservative party in the 30s, in the wilderness years, about what to do about foreign policy. And as a rule in the parliament, the left liked the communists and the right liked or leaned to the Nazis. And Churchill disliked them both alike. And it was rare, not many people were equally against both. Churchill writes they differ in the north, course from the south. Well, the conservatives were reluctant to make an offer to the Soviet Union for the reason they didn't like them. They're communists, right? And they somehow the Nazis seemed a little more right wing, I guess, or something. Well, I don't even guess that's true, although they were National Socialists, see. So Chamberlain sent a man named Strange, a assistant secretary in the foreign ministry, to talk to Joe Stalin. And Hitler sent Ribbentrop, his right hand man in foreign policy, the foreign minister. And so it just was a half measure, right? If you're prepared to talk to him about a deal, try to get the deal done at least to see what it's like. And instead they basically insulted him. And because he was such a low level person when he got there, strange. He was a pretty good guy, by the way. He had to sort of work his way up to get to the people around Stalin. And that meant that Stalin made a deal with Hitler, as Churchill writes in this chapter, both of them knowing that it would not last. Right. And Victor Hansen, by the way, whom I should say has had 10 hours of surgery and looks like he's going to beat his problem.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Oh, that is wonderful news.

[Dr. Larry Arnn]

It is very wonderful news. He's a very important man. Well, in his book the Second World wars, he points out that Stalin is the only major player in the second greatest of all wars, this war that managed to be an ally of every other major power in the war at one time or another.

[Hugh Hewitt]

So we'll talk a little bit more about that after the break. I do want to add A footnote to VDH, Dr. Victor Davis Hanson, a professor at Hillsdale, a professor at Hoover Institution, friend of this program, and he did make it through surgery. He's been in and out since then, had to go back in intensive care for a while, be back out. So we look forward to having Victor back on the program just as soon as possible. And in the meantime, we'll continue to bring you those bulletins because he makes them available through Dr. Reich, sometimes through Dr. Arne, sometimes he just posts on VDH, the Sword of Pericles, his website. But whatever we learn about VDH that he makes public, we will pass along to you all things Hillsdale collected at hillsdale.edu, including courses about and by Dr. Arn on the Constitution and on totalitarianism, all of that collected at Hillsdale. Edu. Stay tuned. Welcome back, America. I'm Hugh Hewitt. I do want to emphasize Churchill's memoirs are wonderful to talk about with Dr. Larry Ahn, President of Hillsdale College, all things [e-mail]. they are even better to read. And I find myself underlining way too much, taking way too many notes, way too many questions for Dr. Arne. But it's a fabulous book, so relevant to today. So relevant, I think, for as long as people are reading and countries are going to war or coming up to the brink of going to war as we find ourselves this week, you might profit, I know you'll profit actually by reading it for yourself. But in the meantime, we talk about it here on the Hillsdale Dialogue. The chapter wraps up this way. And we'll come back next week and talk about what happens when Germany actually attacks Poland. But it says this, page 354, Churchill. It is a curious fact about British islanders who hate drill and have not been invaded for nearly a thousand years, that as danger comes nearer and grows, they become progressively less nervous when it is imminent, that they are fierce. When it is mortal, they are fearless. These habits have led them into some very narrow escapes. And Churchill gets back from France as the news of the Molotov Ribbentrop Pact comes out. And he calls Inspector Thompson back to Chartwell where he lives. And they take shifts armed, because there are a lot of Nazis in Germany before the war begins. And the quote I love. Thus, nobody would have had a walkover. The Nazis were not smart enough to have one of their spies kill Churchill early on. They missed it. Right?

[Dr. Larry Arnn]

Yeah. Remember, Churchill was a warrior, right? He fought in many battles and he fought well. And I, you know, at the great battle of Omdurman because he'd injured his shoulder. We've told this story. It's in my early life and other places in the River War, Churchill didn't use a saber in the cavalry charge. He used a pistol because he'd hurt his shoulder. And that meant, he said, that it's surprising what happens on a battlefield because if your horse is bleeding or you're bleeding or your reins are cut, everybody runs up and wants to fight you. But if somebody runs up and wants to fight you and you shoot him in the face, not many come. So Churchill was experienced in the use of the pistol that he carried.

[Hugh Hewitt]

A good reminder that Churchill is a warrior about to embark into the cabinet. Next week we will come back and open up the fact that he's not in the government when this happens. He just, in France, goes home because he thinks bad things are about to happen after the Molotov Ribbentrop pact and arms himself and waits. And we'll come back next week and pick up in Part 17, Book 2 of Volume 1 of Churchill's War Memoirs, simply titled War. Thank you, Dr. Larry Arn, President of Hillsdale College. All things Hillsdale are at hillsdale.edu if you want all of the prior episodes in this particular series on the war memoirs of Churchill, we also have done World War I. Everything is collected at hughforhilsdale.com or wherever podcasts are collected under Hugh for under Hillsdale Dialogues.

[Narrator]

Thanks for listening to the Hillsdale Dialogues, part of the Hillsdale College Podcast network. More episodes at Podcast Hillsdale. Edu or wherever you find your audio. For more information about Hillsdale College, head to Hillsdale, Eduard.