Episode Summary

Podcast: Hillsdale College Podcast Network Superfeed
Episode: C.S. Lewis on Christianity: Good and Evil
Date: November 26, 2025
Host(s): Jeremiah Regan, Juan Davalos
Guest: Dr. Michael Ward (Visiting Fellow, Hillsdale College; Faculty, University of Oxford)

Overview

This episode marks the first in a series on "C.S. Lewis on Christianity," centering on Lewis’s foundational views about good and evil. Dr. Michael Ward leads an in-depth exploration of Lewis’s stance on objective moral reality, as presented especially in The Abolition of Man. The discussion provides biographical context, philosophical grounding, and practical application, arguing that recognizing objective value is not only essential for morality but for humanity itself.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Introduction and Personal Reflections on the Course

• Hosts: Jeremiah Regan introduces Juan Davalos, who reflects on his involvement in producing the course and his admiration for C.S. Lewis’s clarity and relevance.
  • “I watched this course 11 times because I was working on this course when I worked in production, and every time that I watched it, I learned something new.” (Juan Davalos, 00:12)
  • They highlight Lewis’s The Abolition of Man and the crucial question: Is beauty and morality objective or subjective?

2. Framing the Question: Subjective vs. Objective Values

• Discussion of Lewis's Core Illustration:
  • From The Abolition of Man, the "sublime waterfall" example sets up whether beauty is inherent or solely perception.
    • “Is the beauty of that waterfall in the waterfall itself—that is, is beauty objective—or is it something that is just perception?” (Juan Davalos, 00:33)
  • The hosts emphasize how this debate spills into questions about truth, goodness, and the standards of morality.
    • “Are the standards outside of human creation, or are the standards made by humans? That’s really the question.” (Jeremiah Regan, 02:13)

3. Biographical Sketch of C.S. Lewis (03:26–09:30)

• Dr. Michael Ward provides background:
  • Lewis lived through major societal upheavals but focused his intellectual energy on timeless spiritual and philosophical questions.
  • Raised in a Protestant, Anglican family; his early religious experiences were intense and sincere but led to intellectual and emotional struggles.
  • Lewis’s early loss of faith was influenced by exposure to non-Christian mythologies and doubts about Christianity’s unique truth claims.
    • “He wasn’t so much troubled by the claims of the validity of Christianity. He was troubled by the claim that every other tradition was entirely false. That was what perplexed him.” (Dr. Michael Ward, ~08:30)

4. Lewis as Academic, Philosopher, and Ethicist (09:31–12:38)

• Lewis’s academic career began with philosophy, particularly the nature of goodness, before turning to literary studies.
• “We oversimplify Lewis if we think of him just as an English literary critic, or just a writer of children’s fiction, or just a Christian apologist. He was also a philosopher, ethicist...” (Dr. Michael Ward, 11:40)

5. Main Lecture: Good and Evil – Lewis’s Three Central Theses (12:39–38:00)

I. Moral Value is Objective

• Lewis argues that morality is like mathematics—found, not made; axiomatic and fundamental.
  • “If you try to say that, for instance, causing innocent people to suffer is good or that lying and stealing are good, you’re not showing moral initiative… you’re showing that you’re morally blind...” (Dr. Michael Ward, 13:53)
  • Notable Quote:
    • “I believe that the primary moral principles on which all others depend are rationally perceived...” (Lewis, quoted by Dr. Ward, 16:00)

II. Moral Value is Universally Recognized

• Drawing from The Abolition of Man, Lewis asserts that all cultures and philosophies share these foundational moral truths, which he terms the Tao.
  • “He chooses this term as his summary term for the basic principles of good and evil, not because he has any special interest in Confucius and Chinese philosophy, but to remind his readers that what he’s talking about isn’t confined to Christianity, isn’t confined to the West.” (Dr. Michael Ward, 21:36)
• Lewis’s survey of world traditions (Babylonian, Hindu, Jewish, Christian, etc.) demonstrates consensus on the objectivity of value—though not on all particulars.
• Critique of subjectivism: attempts to deny objective value ultimately undercut themselves.
  • “They want their statement to be taken seriously. But if what they're saying is true, it can't be taken seriously because it cuts its own throat.” (Dr. Michael Ward, 27:52)

III. Moral Value Must Be Practiced

• Morality is not only a matter of knowledge—it is lived reality.
  • “One of the most important lines in The Abolition of Man comes when Lewis describes the Dao as the concrete reality in which to participate is to be truly human.” (Dr. Michael Ward, 30:35)
• Virtue requires action, not just theory—like exercising a muscle.
• Participation in objective morality shapes character and identity.
  • “You can’t just think about it. You’ve got to do it… a good philosopher may know about the Dao, but a good person knows it from within.” (Dr. Michael Ward, 32:05)
• Lewis acknowledges both subjectivity and objectivity in moral life:
  • Notable Narnia Quote:
    • “What you see and hear depends a great deal on where you’re standing. It also depends on what sort of person you are.” (Dr. Michael Ward, referencing Lewis, 36:10)

6. Connection to Christian Theology (36:55–37:40)

• Though the lecture is rooted in philosophical reasoning, Lewis aligns these concepts with Christian teachings—God’s image in man as the basis for moral responsibility.
• The question of redemption after moral failure sets up the following lecture: “Christ and Conversion.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the risk of abandoning objectivity:
  • “If we give up on that universal recognition, we’re on a short road to prison, to madness, to tyranny, to slavery.” (Dr. Michael Ward, 35:57)
• On power and democracy:
  • “A democracy only tells you where the power is located, it doesn’t tell you how the power will be used. And if power is considered the only valuable thing rather than a way of helping to bring about the value of goodness, well, who has the power becomes the all important issue, might becomes right, and ethical questions evaporate...” (Dr. Michael Ward, 25:09)
• Animal Farm reference:
  • “There was no question now what had happened to the faces of the pigs. The creatures looked from pig to man and from man to pig and from pig to man again. But already it was impossible to say which was which.” (Lewis, quoted by Dr. Ward, 26:40)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:12–00:36 – Juan Davalos’s personal connection to the Lewis course
• 00:37–02:37 – Introduction of the question of objective vs. subjective value
• 03:26–09:30 – Dr. Ward’s biographical sketch of C.S. Lewis
• 09:31–12:38 – Lewis’s formation as academic, philosopher, and ethicist
• 12:39–20:00 – Moral value as objective: philosophical foundations
• 20:00–30:35 – Universal recognition of moral objectivity and the "Dao"
• 30:36–36:10 – Practicing morality; virtue as lived participation in the Dao
• 36:55–37:40 – Link to Christian theology and set-up for next lecture

Conclusion

Dr. Michael Ward’s inaugural lecture in this series demonstrates that C.S. Lewis considered good and evil to be real, objective, and discoverable by reason. The commitment to objective value—inherited across civilizations and critical for true humanity—is not only a philosophical or religious assertion but the necessary ground for moral action and character formation. The philosophical themes addressed dovetail with Christian doctrine without depending on it, setting the stage for the next episode’s exploration of Lewis’s journey to faith and the meaning of conversion.

Next Up: The story of Lewis’s return to Christianity—Christ and Conversion.