Podcast Summary

Episode Overview

Podcast: Hillsdale College Podcast Network Superfeed
Episode: Linda McMahon – Ending Washington’s Grip on Education
Guests: Dr. Larry Arnn (President, Hillsdale College), Linda McMahon (U.S. Secretary of Education)
Date: September 11, 2025

In this episode, Dr. Larry Arnn converses with Linda McMahon, the current Secretary of Education, about her ambitious efforts to radically transform the Department of Education: reducing its size, transferring control back to states, strengthening local and parental involvement, and returning to educational basics. The conversation delves into the reasoning and details behind these reforms, current debates (like DEI and transgender policy), the value of school choice, and what McMahon envisions for the future of American schools.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Linda McMahon’s Mission: Decentralizing Education

• Reduction in Department Size:
  McMahon has reduced the Department of Education’s workforce by about half and consolidated buildings, aiming to return more control of education to individual states.
  (03:06)

  “...even with the reduction, which is about half...we closed a lot of the buildings...” — Linda McMahon (04:28)

• Staff Reaction:
  Despite downsizing, McMahon reports high morale among remaining staff, who are enthusiastic participants in the transition.
  (04:28)

2. The Role (and Limitations) of the Department of Education

• Clarification of What DOE Does:
  McMahon emphasizes that the Department doesn’t control curriculum, hire teachers, or select textbooks. Its main functions are grant oversight and fund disbursement from Congress. (05:49)

  “It does not control any curriculum in the states. It doesn’t hire teachers, it doesn’t buy books.” — Linda McMahon (05:49)

• Transition to State Control:
  Current efforts include a nationwide tour to identify best (and worst) practices at schools, aiming to empower states and parents. (06:40)

3. Why Past Reforms Failed and the Return to Basics

• Assessment of ‘No Child Left Behind’ & Common Core:
  Despite good intentions, federal standards failed to boost achievement. McMahon argues for a “return to basics”—notably, the science of reading and phonics as seen in successful states like Mississippi and Louisiana. (08:24)

  “What we have found, what really does work is getting back to basics. The science of reading has been so proven now...” — Linda McMahon (08:24)

• Student Proficiency Concerns:
  McMahon cites poor NAEP scores despite trillions spent:

  “Since the department was established, we’ve spent over $3 trillion and our scores have come down...” — Linda McMahon (07:19)

4. Parental Power and Local Advocacy

• McMahon champions parents as children’s best advocates and stresses that education succeeds when closest to the child. (14:12)

  “Who is better to be their advocate in Washington? That person, you or some bureaucrat like me that’s sitting in D.C.?” — Linda McMahon (14:12)

• She describes parental activism, especially mothers at local school boards, as the most potent force for positive change. (15:04)

  “There is no more powerful force than...moms... when they are standing up and they are for their children...” — Linda McMahon (15:04)

5. Handling Controversies: DEI and Transgender Policies

• McMahon discusses actions against counties for handling of transgender policy, emphasizing “common sense practicality” and parental rights. (15:34) – (20:31)

  “Just this past week, I had in my office several parents... telling me about things that had happened... their children traumatized...” — Linda McMahon (15:34)

• She opposes secretive counseling for minors without parental knowledge and expresses concern about children making irreversible decisions too young. (18:00)

6. Special Needs and IDEA Funding

• Commitment to ensuring continuity of IDEA (Individuals with Disabilities Education Act) funding, even as responsibilities may transfer between agencies. (21:45)

  “There’s a rightful place for the IDEA funds... Haven’t quite decided that yet... But again, as I say, our job was just to funnel the money through and that money will continue to come...” — Linda McMahon (21:56)

7. DEI, Equity, Inclusion, and Local Power

• McMahon differentiates between providing equal opportunity and imposing divisive ideologies from Washington. (24:50)

  “There are many ways to handle diversity... other than to have it mandated and taught that one side is an oppressor and the other side is the oppressed.” — Linda McMahon (25:11)

8. Competitive Federal Grants, Block Grants, and School Choice

• Efforts to shift federal grants to state discretion, letting governors and state superintendents decide on priorities rather than top-down mandates. (27:06)
• Strong support for school choice: allowing families to leave failing or unsafe schools, with public money following the student to alternative schools, including charters. (28:32) – (33:00)

  “They should be able to get out of that particular school and not fail along with the school.” — Linda McMahon (29:07)

9. Innovations, Technology, and Classical Education

• McMahon expresses interest in diverse models, from AI-driven charter schools to classical education focusing on reading, writing, and arithmetic. (33:00) – (37:00)

  “Let’s allow the states to be those laboratories. Let’s let teachers be innovative. Let’s let teachers teach.” — Linda McMahon (34:36)

10. Trades, Workforce Preparation, and Non-College Pathways

• McMahon and Arnn discuss the value of community colleges and trade training, underscoring that not everyone needs a four-year degree. (47:43) – (50:00)

  “They are absolutely working with high schools, training students... when those students graduate, they not only have their diploma, but they have a certificate for a skill for one of the trades...” — Linda McMahon (48:18)

• Advocates for more focus on apprenticeships and workforce readiness as part of public education reforms.

11. Student Loans and Higher Education Reform

• New legislation to cap student loans at reasonable levels, intended to put downward pressure on tuition and encourage alternative paths. (54:54)

  “There are caps now or there will be caps on the amount of loans...which I think is a good thing.” — Linda McMahon (55:03)

12. Overarching Vision and Endgame

• McMahon wants Congress to ultimately vote to return education to the states and reassign functions (like workforce development) to other departments. (45:19)

  “I really do hope that in the end, Congress will vote to return education to the states and to move the different departments that we’re working on into agencies.” — Linda McMahon (45:25)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On shrinking the federal role:
  “You have them on what’s called their final mission, and that’s a pregnant term.” — Larry Arnn (03:52)
• On phonics and reading:
  “Take the sounds that they learn by nature and apply them to the marks on the page and the next thing you know, you get a reader.” — Larry Arnn (10:42)
• On school choice lotteries:
  “When you put the list up on the board...everybody gasps and the ones below and cries and cry. And it shows that in that movie. And I’ve seen it with my own eyes in several schools.” — Larry Arnn (31:14)
• On American bottom-up innovation:
  “The heart of America, isn’t it always bottom up? ...this idea of a national plan about local things is...not native to America, although it’s been around for a hundred years now.” — Larry Arnn (51:36)
• On student loans:
  “1.7 trillion. And growing, growing.” — Larry Arnn (54:59) “...there are caps now...on the amount of loans...which I think is a good thing.” — Linda McMahon (55:03)

Key Timestamps

• 03:06 – Arnn introduces McMahon and highlights her role in DOE reforms.
• 04:28 – McMahon describes department reductions and staff morale.
• 05:49 – What the Department of Education actually does.
• 08:24 – Past reform failures and return to basics.
• 14:12 – Parents as the ultimate educational advocates.
• 15:34 – Handling transgender policy controversies.
• 21:56 – Plans for IDEA funding and special needs.
• 25:11 – Diversity, equity, inclusion, and local control.
• 27:06 – Competitive grants and block-grants at the state level.
• 28:32 – Encouraging school choice and flexible funding.
• 33:00 – Educational innovation: AI vs. classical models.
• 39:30 – Value of parental involvement.
• 47:43 – Emphasis on workforce training and community colleges.
• 54:59 – Discussion on student loans and college costs.
• 59:20 – The “revolution” underway and outgrowing the cookie-cutter college model.

Tone & Language

The conversation is frank, energetic, and focused on practical reforms. Dr. Arnn’s queries are often laced with humor and gentle provocation (“You can actually have it all...”). McMahon is straightforward, at times empathetic and always mission-driven (“I think we have failed our children in this country. For us to be so far down...”). The mood is optimistic, even as both acknowledge deep, long-standing problems.

Takeaways for Non-Listeners

This episode provides an in-depth, sometimes personal look at the federal effort to untangle Washington’s control of American education. McMahon is focused on downsizing the DOE, empowering states and parents, returning to educational fundamentals, and modernizing funding mechanisms to encourage innovation and choice. The conversation addresses contentious contemporary issues head-on while keeping the focus on practical, student-centered solutions and America’s tradition of local governance. McMahon’s reforms are described as revolutionary in both the intent and scope and are being watched closely by educators, parents, and policymakers nationwide.