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- [00:00]
A
No more. Welcome to the White and Blue Podcast. I'm Doug Goodenough and my co Host is Colleen McGinnis. We are here to tell the interesting stories of Hillsdale College alumni, or more accurately, help them share their own stories. Here's a little bit about today's guest. Margaret Handel, from the class of 2017, graduated with a degree in economics. However, she was not looking for a 9 to 5 job. Hearing about the US Merchant Marines while at Hillsdale, she decided to continue her education, graduating from the Great Lakes Maritime Academy and becoming an officer in the Merchant Marines. Now her job entails traveling the Great Lakes. Margaret, thank you for joining us today.
- [01:01]
B
It's lovely to be here.
- [01:03]
C
All right, Margaret, I've known you a long time now, since you were in college.
- [01:07]
B
That's right.
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C
And it's been such a joy to watch you as a student. You were involved in lots of things. You were in the honors program. You're highly academic. You were. You're a lovely lady. This is an audio podcast, so you cannot see us, but she's just a fabulous presence. And then you, as an economics major and a liberal arts grad, you decided to join, go get a. Become a sailor, become a mariner, and go to the Merchant Marine Academy. Yes. And so what was that. What was that thought process like? Like when you were making that decision, which is an unusual one, as you know, for Hillsdale grads.
- [01:51]
B
Yeah. So I was in my senior year of school. I knew I loved economics, but I wasn't sure if graduate school was the correct path. And all of my professors were very candid with me. They'd known me for years. We had very good conversations about the future. And they all sat me down and took me very gently by the shoulder and said, do not go to graduate school unless you have a very specific vision for the next five years and quarter million dollars of your life. And I didn't. I was like, oh, you know, I don't know if academia is the correct next step. And in a conversation with a friend, just a classmate in school, he was telling me about how he was planning to join the Marine Corps, but he said, oh, I was interested in the Merchant Marine Academy for a minute. And I was like, what's the Merchant Marine? What does that mean? You know? And he goes, oh, it's civilian sailors in the American commercial fleet. You can go to an academy and become an officer and sail boats for a living. And I was like, I was like, oh, I think I should do that. Wait a minute. I think that actually I didn't know that was a thing you could do. That is incredible. And I looked into it, I researched it, and the spark that had never been there for graduate school was there for, for this. So I prayed about it for a couple weeks. I talked to all my friends, and then I called my very long suffering and patient and supportive parents and I said, hi, I don't think I want to get a PhD. Can I have another college education, please, to be a sailor? And they were on board, so to speak. They were very supportive. And I went to the Great Lakes Maritime Academy in Traverse City, Michigan, immediately following my graduation from Hillsdale College.
- [03:37]
A
So why the water? Is that something you grew up around when you were younger or, you know.
- [03:44]
C
Yeah. I mean, were your parents surprised when you said that?
- [03:47]
B
So I didn't grow up around the water. I grew up in the only county in the state of Minnesota without a lake. So without a natural lake, I should say. So, no. The answer is no. I did not grow up on the water. I didn't have close friends or family that worked in the merchant marine. But when I was younger, I. Walk with me for a minute. I grew up in the era of those big epic films, you know, the Lord of the Rings, Pirates of the Caribbean, Narnia, Harry Potter, the Avengers. Right. These huge epic stories. And my favorite stories were the Pirates of the Caribbean movies. And when I was 13, those were coming out and the only wish of my 13 year old heart was to be Elizabeth Swan, the pirate king. And then, you know, I grew up and quite rightly realize that you have to go about adult life in a different way from the movies. But that sense of adventure, the sense of, you know, something very enchanting to be found in the sea was always sort of in the back of my imagination. And so when I learned that, wait a minute, you can translate that childish fantasy into a very adult professional career, that was a very big green flag for me. And yeah, my parents were, they were, they took a minute to sort of wrap their heads around the new life path that their only daughter had decided to take. But ultimately, you know, my mother was an officer in the military, so she was very like, she comprehended what this was very quickly. My dad took a minute because this was never really the path he, he had envisioned for his little girl, you know, but we went up, we toured the academy, we spoke to some other people who had kind of pursued this path. And both of my parents pretty quickly were like, okay, this is what we're doing now. We're supportive, we're on board. And they have always been supportive. Sometimes they'll ask questions, you know, they'll be like, oh, you sure you want to do that? Okay, you don't have to.
- [05:51]
C
We'll, you know.
- [05:52]
B
But they're very supportive and I love them for it.
- [05:55]
C
That's awesome. Well, Margaret, my favorite movie growing up was the Titanic and I watched it 13 times in the movie theater. 13. So everyone should be pleased that I did not go to the mercenaries.
- [06:11]
B
You would, but you've learned from the film. Doubtless. I'm sure you've taken the lessons you needed to take away from this. Not my point.
- [06:17]
A
Along those lines. You know, when I was a kid, one of the most famous songs of my era was the Edmund Fitzgerald.
- [06:23]
B
A classic. That was classic.
- [06:25]
C
That happened, I think aging himself.
- [06:27]
B
No, and you're. No, you are correct. Because about once a year I put the. I go to. I go walk around a Barnes and Noble bookstore and I put on headphones and I listen to the Edmund Fitzgerald. The wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald on repeat for about an hour. It has happened. It happens to me every year. I have to do it. I know, it's funny. It is such a good song. And. And I worked for the company that managed the Edmund Fitzgerald at the time. Its sister ship, the Arthur M. Anderson, is still sailing. I almost sailed on it. I got diverted to a different vessel at the last minute, but it's still sailing. A lot of those boats from that era are still afloat. I've worked on them. My first ship that I ever worked on was built in and for World War II. Still sailing. Still sailing, working cargo on the Great Lakes. And that was quite an experience for a brand new sailor.
- [07:17]
C
So you kind of cavalierly a little bit said, you know, when you were exploring this as a career, that sure, I'll sail boats for a living. It's not just any boat. I mean, this is a serious endeavor. Can you kind of describe the types of ships that you've. You focus on or sail on regularly?
- [07:36]
B
Absolutely. So I am. I possess an unlimited license, which means the ships I sail are what we call unlimited tonnage. Any size it can be as big as it can be. There are small, there are. There are. I don't want to say lesser licenses, but different licenses for like, you know, 1500 ton, 200 ton, like different tonnages that you can sail. But I have an unlimited license so I can sail any vessel. That translates to big ships. I began my career on the Great Lakes where I sailed large car, bulk cargo vessels that carried iron Ore, limestone, coal, around the Great Lakes region. And those ships could load up to 70,000 tons of raw material, which was really exciting and kind of fun to play with. And then in 2023, I sort of shifted my career to be largely offshore. And so now I sail primarily offshore on the oceans. And those ships can be boxed cargo, containerized cargo ships, cargo ships that take rolling cargo like cars and trucks. They can be also bulk cargo ships that take, you know, iron ore, limestone, minerals, things like that. And those are the ships that I tend to focus on in my career.
- [08:52]
A
Right now you're just transporting cargo. So tell me about what that process is like and what your duties are specifically when on a typical, on a typical trip, absolutely.
- [09:03]
B
So I am a deck officer in my job that looks like being responsible for. I stand watch every day. So I'm on the bridge with a wheelsman, navigating the ship, monitoring our navigation, monitoring our, our radios, you know, tracking, plotting our navigation, being in contact with other vessels. Just manage, driving the boat, basically. Pilot, commanding the ship. Well, I shouldn't say commanding, but, but I am an officer of the watch, you know, getting, helping to get the ship from A to B. And then when I'm relieved by the next officer who comes on watch, I'm often, you know, take some overtime hours to inspect safety equipment, fire safety equipment, you know, rescue safety. I might be in charge of the medical locker, the medical inventory in our hospital. I might be the medical officer for the ship as well. In case anyone has any issues or injuries or ailments, they'll come to me, let me know, we'll handle that. So those are my duties when we're at sea sailing. When you come into port, you tie up the ship and you start loading and unloading cargo. And that would involve, you know, the chief mate of the vessel who's a one level, one or two levels above me right now in my ranking would be responsible for managing the cargo plan, the ballasting, some of those, those procedures. But as a junior mate, I would be assisting with that cargo offload, managing the crews that might come aboard, the longshoremen, you know, working with them, being in conversation with them about the progress, timing, everything. It's a big operation, there's a lot of people involved, a lot of moving parts. So making the biggest thing is safety. As a deck officer, my first responsibility in every situation is to maintain the safety and the integrity of the crew. The well being is, is my top priority all the time. When I'm standing watch, when I'm unloading cargo because we're on very big ships. We're moving very heavy things with very big equipment, and it can be dangerous if you aren't taking your time communicating. Just, you know, that's what we do most of the time as deck officers, is prioritize the safety of the people on the ship.
- [11:13]
C
You're talking a lot about vocational work and skilled work. And yet I know you to be a lover of learning the liberal arts, Highly successful here academically in a lot of ways, and continuing on in those pursuits now on your own, which not everyone can say that they do, including me. I try, but. And so what. How do you. How are you marrying that. Those two things in your work? And I know that you do from our conversation. So how. How do you do that? And what are. What are your kind of aims and objectives there?
- [11:52]
B
Oh, this is my favorite question and favorite topic to talk about. I think that skilled labor is just in many ways a physical manifestation of the abstract principles of beauty that we love to talk about at Hillsdale. I think that interacting. We've all had, you know, Dr. Arnt's favorite question at the dinner table. What is truth? You know, and freshmen always kind of scramble a bit because you want to have a big. You want to have an answer. You want to have something kind of dramatic and artsy sounding to say. And I think that a. I think that the answer to the question, what is truth? I think the answer is reality. Truth is reality. And it has been so exciting and beautiful to come out of the academic world where you're sort of speaking of forms, you're speaking of abstract ideas, and moving into the world of very concrete, tactile reality, where craftsmanship, skill, attention to safety matters, because you're starting to interact with things that aren't operating with reference to you. The ocean, the weather, other human beings, the ship itself, these things are not curated for you. You must sort of serve their interests in ways that are, you know, demanding and challenging. And so, you know, craftsmanship in work, I think is the natural next step for people who have been given this. This kind of liberal arts education. I think that's. I think it's an outflow. I think it's a symptom. And it can be a little challenging, you know, to move from the world of the primarily academic to the world of the primarily pragmatic and. And tactile, because it's humbling. The ocean, it doesn't care about how you feel. It's not a place that is oriented around you, your. Your needs or wants or Feelings and that can, you know, feel very uncomfortable and humbling. As a human being, we love it when things are oriented around us. But it is very healthy and very exciting and very ennobling to step into worlds that operate without reference to you so that you can learn to speak the language on, on their terms, if that makes sense.
- [14:16]
A
Along those lines, you know, I think I read in an article maybe a few years ago that was done on you, you mentioned the transition from Hillsdale to the Maritime Academy. Tell me about that education. You know, obviously you got the Liberal Arts foundation here at Hillsdale, but tell me about that education at Great Lakes Maritime Academy and how they differed from each other.
- [14:39]
B
Absolutely. I think Hillsdale prepared me for the academy. It was a very intense program that that particular school had a very high, very rigorous GR grading standard. So they asked for a lot from us, which I appreciated because it prepared us for the industry. But here, you know, again, like we said, a lot of reading, a lot of writing, a lot of talking, a lot of thinking there, a lot of more math, more skill based education. You know, you go out on small vessels in the bay and you putter around and you have to learn how to actually do a thing. You know, you're learning to navigate by terrestrial, you're using terrestrial navigation, you're using celestial navigation. You have to learn how to use tools and instruments. You become certified in radar, in ECDIS navigation systems, in radio systems, in satellite systems. And you're expected to know how this stuff works. It's. You touch on engineering. I mean, I'm a deck officer, so I don't, I don't repair or manage the engines of the vessel or. But I use the engines of the vessel. I need to understand, like what can I ask my equipment to do? And so your M.O. it was, you know, it was a, it was stretching me in a new direction to start spending time in a very, you know, again, a very tactile world where you're learning hard skills, you're learning how to do stuff with things. And, and that was again, I think it just paired really, really well with the liberal arts education that I got here. For me, it was the next step.
- [16:16]
C
And I'm sure you were prepared well for that. But what was, I'm sure there were also very hard things that you had to confront and do and challenges. What was the biggest challenge in that time at school there when you were starting this career? What was the biggest thing that you were hit with?
- [16:33]
B
Definitely one of the biggest things that I struggled with was the change in Community and the lack thereof. In some ways. I, you know, was here at school. It was a wonderful experience. I had wonderful friends. And then suddenly I was sort of living in my own apartment in a frozen city in the tundra of northern Michigan, burned out, working extremely hard to, you know, working a couple jobs, working very hard to get this degree done in three years, and just very overwhelmed. That was difficult to figure out how to get through those. Those areas of loneliness that sometimes just happen when you're an adult out in the world. You just sometimes have a lonely season. And I had never properly experienced that before. So that was a bit of a wake up call, a bit of a kind of a. This is something that must be understood and managed and. And community is going to be a thing that must be very intentionally, deliberately cultivated. It's not going to be curated for you anymore. It has to be a choice you're making very intentionally. That having been said, one of the most beautiful parts of both the Maritime academy and the maritime industry is, is the community. You're on a boat in a box with 25 people and that's your community. And it's not exactly curated, but like we were talking about over breakfast earlier, the community on a ship is uniquely beautiful, I think, because you really don't get to choose who you're working with.
- [18:09]
C
Like family.
- [18:10]
B
It's like family.
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C
You get who you get, but it has an end date.
- [18:13]
B
It does have an end date, but you get who you get. And they, like I was saying, they may be real dingbats, they may be better than you in every way. They may be extremely bizarre, they may be people that you disagree with extremely strongly and you have to eat dinner across from them every day. And you have to work with them every day, 8 to 12 hours a day. You're living next to them, you're seeing them everywhere. You don't get to hide. You don't get to isolate yourself or insulate yourself from people you may not otherwise choose to spend time with. And for me personally, that has been exceedingly healthy. That has been part of my. The best moments of my growth as an adult since Hillsdale have been on ships or in the academy with sailors who I may not have otherwise chosen to be with, where our proximity allowed me to get over myself and get over my own weird, you know, inhibitions or whatever and really, truly spend time with other people that have beautiful, incredible characteristics and qualities that I would have missed and would have been. I would have been poorer if they had not been in my life. And that Kind of thing is extremely
- [19:24]
A
special from a demographic standpoint. When you entered the maritime academy, what was the typical student there? Are they similar to you coming out of college looking for this? Are they from a different career path? I mean, how did you fit that demographic? It sound like you may be a little different than their normal recruit.
- [19:45]
B
Yes. So most, most people at most maritime academies are just college coming in at the age of 18 or 19 as a normal call four year college student. We have, there are several maritime academies in the United States. California, Michigan, Maine, a couple in New York, Massachusetts, and then one in Texas. And so most of the kids that are in there are just normal college students. It's a four year program. I was coming in as a slightly older student. And the Great Lakes Maritime Academy has a specific curriculum set up for, for students that have a prior degree so that you can get through their program in three years, which is really nice. But yeah, that was, that was an interesting kind of experience. To go from being a senior with a very solid group of friends and activities and life to suddenly I'm a freshman again. No friends, no activities, no life brand. You know, going right back to square one was humbling and you know, at the, in the end, you know, probably good for me, but it was humbling and I took a while to adjust to that. There were some other students that were also in that same three year program though, and we bonded and are still, some of us are still friends and see each other in the industry. So they were really great people to spend time with. And they were English. I mean, I've met people who were English majors, CBs in the Navy, worked in the. Used to work in a penitentiary. Former morticians, a surprising number of former morticians. You would be surprised. So people really do truly come to this industry from all walks of life and also just as normal college students. So what about the.
- [21:31]
C
I mean, I'm sure you found yourself a minority as a female. And how was that a challenge or how, how did that unravel for you? I guess in that environment we, My
- [21:42]
B
particular class had a surprisingly high number of women in it. The professors were all shocked when we walked in on the first day. They're like, whoa, this is, this is awesome. You know, they were very great. They're very supportive. Not a lot of women in the industry as a whole. About 10% in the American maritime industry are female and about 2% worldwide from what I understand. I have found that to be a minor aspect of this job for me personally. I have not felt like I have suffered discrimination or suffered harassment as a result of being female in a, in this, in this industry. That's not universal. I know many women who have experienced harassment, hazing, bullying. That is largely, that is, that is decreasing as the industry modernizes, as younger people come in and, and have higher ideals for how men and women can work together in the workplace. And that's very exciting and, and I'm excited for the direction the industry is taking. But yeah, my experience has been very good and has been very, very exciting and I hope that I can be an example to other women who are like, oh, you know, I feel called to this, to such and such industry or a blue collar work or the military. But I, I haven't maybe, especially in the conservative world, maybe been given a vision for what that could look like. And I hope that I can offer my example to other women who might be considering this type of thing for themselves.
- [23:10]
A
Okay, I think we'll take a break and be right back with the White and Blue podcast.
- [23:27]
B
You know the Robertson family from the hit TV show Duck Dynasty. Now Hillsdale College offers you the unique opportunity to learn alongside the Robertsons as they dive deep into Hillsdale's online course, the Genesis Story. Every Friday on the Unashamed Podcast, the Robertsons will share their insights and perspectives, learning from Hillsdale professor of English Justin Jackson. Take a trip down south to Louisiana for this one of a kind learning experience we call Unashamed Academy. Visit unashamedforhillsdale.com and enroll today. That's Unashamed. F O R hillsdale.com to experience the genesis story alongside the Robertsons.
- [24:21]
A
Hello, this is Jeremiah Regan, executive director of Hillsdale College Online Learning, and I am the executive producer and one of the screenwriters of Revolutionary America, Hillsdale College's new documentary about the founding, showing in theaters only May 31 through June 2. To find a theater near you or to buy tickets in advance, go to Hillsdale. Eduardo that's Hillsdale Edu Film. Witness the founding of our nation described in vivid detail and with sharp accuracy by Hillsdale professors and guests, including narrator Tom Selleck. Take your friends and your family. Go see Revolutionary America in theaters only May 31st through June 2nd. Buy tickets at hillsdale.edu film. Now it's time for the Hillsdale History Minute, where we bring a slice of Hillsdale College history to the White and Blue Podcast. For today's minute, we look at the Ambler Health and Wellness center, which is one of the oldest buildings on the college's campus. It currently provides medical and mental health services for the college. In the early 1950s, it was renovated and served as the home economics department headquarters. Judge William Ambler, a Hillsdale alumnus and trustee, donated the building to the college in 1919. Welcome back to the White and Blue podcast, where we have 2017 graduate. Margaret Handel is today's guest. Margaret, hopefully you didn't spend too much time in the Ambler house. I know I spent a couple trips there when I was in school, and one is an employee, so it's still there. And actually it's much better than it was when I was a student, so it's been upgraded.
- [26:04]
B
I only went there to get, I believe, a specific kind of vaccine. I went with the honors program to Greece one year for a couple weeks, and I believe I needed a specific vaccine for that, and that's all I did was go get that. So I was. I was very, very lucky to have good health during time here. But they were lovely, lovely people.
- [26:22]
A
Well, we were talking about, you know, your path to being a merchant marine, and you said you, I think, in 2023, took a different path. You're now doing kind of ocean travel, or ocean. Tell me a little bit about that, that new assignment.
- [26:38]
B
Absolutely. So when I had always wanted to sail on the oceans, that was always the impetus. I started off on the Great Lakes in 2020, because it was 2020 and the world was kind of falling apart and they were hiring, so I had the required endorsements and pilotage to sail on the Great Lakes. So I took a job there, sailed for about two and a half years, learned a lot of lessons, earned endorsements I needed. It was a. It was a good experience. But in 2023, I was made aware of a job opportunity with the University of California Maritime Academy in San Francisco, or the Bay Area, I should say. I applied to be one of their training mates for the students for their summer cruise. And that was the first time I ever sailed a vessel offshore. And we sailed the training ship Golden Bear from the Bay Area of California to Cabo San Lucas, Mexico, to Apia in the Samoan Islands, and then we sailed to Hilo in Hawaii, and then we sailed to Oregon, back to the Bay Area of California. And that was my first offshore sailing experience. And I was hooked. It was magical. It was enchanting. And I fell in love with the Pacific. I fell in love with Pacific Islands, and I think I've been chasing that high ever since. So since then, I have worked primarily for government, a government contracting company, and I have spent time in the Pacific on some various vessels in different islands and doing different work as well as here on the east coast. Last summer, I spent my summer working on a government vessel installed in Baltimore. And yeah, so I kind of dipped my toe into that offshore world in 2023 and really haven't looked back. This is definitely where I feel called to work.
- [28:26]
C
What is the type of cargo that you guys are working with?
- [28:30]
B
Government vessels is primarily rolling cargo, so tanks, trucks, okay, you know, that kind of thing. But government vessels do, there's government vessel, there's a lot of them. And that's a whole different podcast. But there are, there, it's, there's, there are government vessels, government owned, civilian operated, which is where, where I am at. I'm not in the military. And shipping is such an exciting industry because anything that you can imagine, there is a, there's a ship for it, you know. And the diversity of opportunity within the industry is one of the most exciting parts for me because I keep finding new cool ships that I want to sail on. I keep finding new types of things that excite me and that are fascinating and I think it will take my entire working life to, to get to them all. And I, that's something that is like very exciting about this, this type of work.
- [29:29]
C
What is a typical stint on one of these trips or what would you call it?
- [29:35]
B
Actually, I call it a hitch. A job, a contract stint, A stint. We have all kinds of different language. I, our, so I work through a labor union and our labor union contracts are typically for 120 days. So I typically would go out were, you know, sign a contract for 120 days, about four months and, and you just get into your daily rhythm. You go, you join the vessel, sign on, sign the paperwork and you get to work pretty much right away. And you have, you know, you work between eight to 14 hours a day, mostly on the, you know, eight hours a day minimum. Usually you do an hour or two of overtime as well. Could be up to 12 hours. On a very busy, crazy day, if there's an emergency, if there's a port, if there's need, you can work up to 14 hours. Our work and rest hours are very intentionally set and monitored to prevent fatigue related safety incidents. It's a, it's a marathon, not a sprint because you're working. There are no weekends, there are no holidays, there are no sick days. You're working every single day. So you have to monitor your own energy levels, take, you know, little breaks as you can when you need them and you know, eat well, exercise when possible. And, you know, self care is very important because it's an intense. It's a. It's like an. It's a sprint marathon combo. You're doing something very intense for an amount. A very long time, and then it's over and you get to come home and you're functionally unemployed, which is great.
- [31:07]
C
Until the next.
- [31:08]
B
Until the next hitch. Exactly. Got it.
- [31:11]
A
So what's your most memorable voyage that could either be on the ocean, Great Lakes, anything. Not necessarily Edmund Fitzgerald, but anything that really. Yeah, well, yeah.
- [31:22]
B
Most memorable voyage, I think, in terms of. I think one of my most memorable voyages was in 2024. I was sailing on a government vessel that was part of the. I think it was called the Pacific Defender Mission. I don't remember the specifics, and I don't know if I'm allowed to give them if I did, but we were working with the Navy to bring cargo overseas. And on that trip, we sailed from California to Hawaii to Okinawa. We went, you know, through the Philippines. We went to Singapore and Indonesia and, like, these different. And all over that part of the Pacific, which was very exciting. And that particular vessel had been kind of mothballed previously to this mission. So there were no prior voyage plans? There were. And I was in charge. I was the second mate at the time, so I was in charge of navigation. There were no voyage plans, so I was inventing everything from scratch. This is my first time sailing as second mate as well. So I was really just like, kind of making everything up as I went along and working with the captain. And we got to the places we needed to go at the time we needed to be there. So that was very exciting. But to be able to go to places that I'd never been before. I'd never been to Singapore, I'd never been to, you know, these, you know, the Java Sea, the Celebes Sea, like, sailing past the Philippine Islands was beautiful. Sailing through the. The. The Bungo Suido Inland Sea in Japan or the Bungo Swedo Passage in the Sito Nikai Inland Sea in Japan was breathtaking in kind of a scary way. There was a ton of traffic and fishing traffic. It was very overwhelming. But we had a good team, good bridge team and good engine team on that vessel and getting to see, you know, the sunsets and the stars. We saw volcanoes, we saw water spouts, we saw whales. We saw, you know, miraculous, beautiful things. It was so hot, it was so humid. But it was also, you know, we dodged typhoons, we dodged traffic, we dodged fishing Vessels. We were kind of, you know, running a little bit by the seat of our pants. It was a little bit of a scrambled experience. But to be able to work with people and take a ship through these miraculous waters was such a privilege and so exciting. And I love doing that kind of thing. It really did feel like an adventure. Well, we talked a little bit at
- [33:50]
C
breakfast about lots of things. I had a lot of fun.
- [33:54]
B
Thank you. Me too.
- [33:56]
C
About your faith. And
- [33:59]
B
I thought that that was a
- [34:01]
C
very relevant topic to this work, because I'm sure it's not all this romantic sea life in the shipping industry, but it sounds like you've had opportunity and community to be able to sort of manifest your faith in these environments. And if you kind of want to talk about that a little bit about how you're able to practice and continue your faith in your career.
- [34:29]
B
Absolutely. I have felt God walking very closely with me throughout this entire thing. For me, this work is a calling. I don't take it as merely a job anymore. It's what I'm sort of meant to do in a way. And I felt very secure in that the entire time. I've never wavered in that, oh, you know, should I be a sailor? Nah, I don't know. That's never really been a question, which has been that security is nice. But we, you know, we talked at breakfast about faith and this concept of what does it look like to. To do work that God delights in? What does that look like? And. And I was, as I told you earlier, we were discussing. Last summer, I was on a boat in Baltimore. I was handed a very overwhelming job. I was. I was kind of the acting chief mate of the vessel, even though I was only the second mate. And I was managing the deck, the unlicensed deck gang of. Of the guys. I was helping, the junior mates. We were. We were just redlined with inspections and audits and inventories. And it was this incredibly chaotic, overwhelming experience for months on end. And everyone worked like there was one of the best crews I've ever worked with. But I was definitely burned out, overwhelmed, kind of, you know, And I took a walk in the city one night to just kind of, like, unwind. And I was listening to a podcast about the Proverbs 31 woman. And the theologians on the podcast were describing this. This, you know, wonderful image that the Lord describes as a woman he delights in. And as they describe the different points of the Proverbs 31 woman, I realized that this description matched what I was doing. The hard work, the Dedication to the well being of the people underneath me. The, you know, the, the benefits that I was creating for the vessel and the people I was working with, this, the care that I was showing for their safety, the quality of work we were putting out, all of those things clicked perfectly with everything that was being described in the scripture. And I was like, wait a minute, I think I'm doing this. I am being the Proverbs 31 woman. And God delights in this. God likes what I'm doing. And I'm so. And this is. Whoa, man. It was just such a wonderful, exciting moment to just be like, wait a minute. In all of the grit and the dust and the sweat and the frustration and the paperwork and the paperwork, and the paperwork and the emails and the difficult phone calls and the difficult choices, there is the delight of God. Oof. And that made me so happy. Honestly, I was just like, wow, this is a beautiful sign that I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. And it was. I feel confident that that attitude and that approach to work is one of the best ministries that we can have as Christians in the world. Because I think that's rare. I think that that sense of divine delight is, I think, I think our communities and our nation are hungry for that. They're hungry for that divine delight. They're hungry for that attention and that care and that joy that I think a person gets to experience when they're really doing their calling, even if it's like sweaty and gritty and boring. And so I think that is something that I have been actively seeking out in my work, trying to sort of do it with excellence and let that be my testimony, my ministry, my presentation of the gospel to those that I work with. Very often I've, you know, I've had people come to me and discuss, you know, matters of. Matters of the Spirit without prompting, without proselytizing because they're, you know, people aren't stupid. People can sense the humanity of people can sense that, that, that divine delight that they're hungry for. And, and it's been such a wonderful opportunity to have conversations with my crewmates in just really special ways.
- [38:41]
C
Yeah, I loved that. We're all called to mission fields and in variety of ways as Christians, for sure.
- [38:48]
A
Yes, absolutely. So you enjoy what you're doing now? What's the ultimate career path? What do you have on the horizon?
- [38:58]
B
Absolutely.
- [38:59]
C
That was sort of a pun, right, Doug?
- [39:01]
B
Nice. Very Pirates of the Caribbean of you. I love that I am currently working on the classes and credentials I need to earn my chief mate license so that I can actually be trained and credentialed to do the job I was doing last summer. That will be another year or two before the classes, endorsements, credentials and exams are all completed and passed and I have my license in hand. And ultimately I would love to be the captain of a vessel that is now the highest, that is the highest rank on the ship. Yes. That is down the road. That is down the road. I would, I would be, you know, I have a kind of a loose goal of, of, of maybe being a captain by the time I'm 40. I'm currently 31 and a half, almost 32. So you know, it's, that's something that is very, that's a very providential thing to become a captain because that's there, there are factors that are out of your hands. But right now my focus is preparing myself to be a chief mate and to serve in that role, role beautifully because it's a big job, it's very challenging, it's very difficult. It requires a lot of you. So that is the medium term focus for me right now. And then honestly too, as many fun, cool endorsements as I can earn, I want to. So I'd love to become, you know, trained in dynamic positioning which is becoming an increasingly prevalent technology in the industry. I would love to. You know, I have my liquid natural gas endorsement. I can sail, I can sail vessels that are liquid natural gas powered, which is cool. I have my Great Lakes pilot age endorsement so I can be a first class Great Lakes pilot. There are all these different little things that you can earn that will grant you access to different elements of the industry. And to me those are really exciting as well.
- [40:54]
C
I'm going to be the basic Hillsdale girl here and say that just really seems like you're rejoicing in the challenge.
- [41:03]
B
Yes, yes, I am. It's, I, I, I like to say that I have an inner border collie and a border collie that is herding sheep is the happiest thing in the world. And when I sort of let that dog off the leash, you know, and I love doing stuff like, I don't know, it's hard to explain, but if I sit at home and try to lead a relaxed and leisurely life, I get very upset and sad very quickly. I, and suddenly I, I look around and I'm reading 10 books and I'm doing artistic projects and I'm repotting house plants and I'm, you know, trying to learn languages and I'm Trying to do stuff, because there is just so much joy and vividness to be found in doing stuff, you know, creating and learning and reading and writing. And that just translates to my work as well. The world is so rich, and I feel like all I want to do is become more conversant with it.
- [42:04]
A
What's your favorite port of call and why?
- [42:07]
B
Ooh, ooh, so many. My favorite port that I've ever really spent time in is I was working on a vessel that spent a lot of time anchored off the coast of Saipan, which is a small island in the Marianas island chain north of Guam. And I think about Saipan all the time. It was a beautiful island, beautiful people. It's an American, I believe, Commonwealth. And I think of the fragrance of the island. I think of the sunsets and the colors and the reefs and the mountains. The history was incredible. And that island is a. Takes up substantial real estate in my imagination. I haven't been able to go back since I got off that ship, but I'm hoping that I can go back next year just for a visit. Yeah, the. The Marianas Islands are very special to me for that reason.
- [42:58]
C
You have a sub stack?
- [42:59]
B
I have a substack.
- [43:00]
C
What's your aim behind that?
- [43:03]
B
First of all, to write more. I think having a public outlet where you have, you know, I think I have like 20 subscribers. It's not deeply. It's not a.
- [43:11]
C
Maybe a lot more now.
- [43:13]
B
Oh, it could be fun. I have two sections of my substack. One of them is for adventure travel, exploration, writing, trying to sort of articulate and make sense of the experience of exploring the world. And that's something that I really love to write about. And then the other section of the substack is for. I call it upper middle working class. And that's to sort of give some space to my first love, which is economics. Because I love economics. I went here to school for it. I also love thinking about human work and labor and the labor ecology of the United States, which is a wonderful and unique place. And so I'm spending some time on that section of the substack. I'm doing some reading about, as I was telling you earlier, about the arts and Crafts movement, about the Industrial Revolution. I'm learning more about labor unions. I'm in one. Don't tell my econ professors
- [44:04]
A
too late.
- [44:05]
B
I know they're going to find out one of these days. But I'm in a labor union and I really like it. I love my labor.
- [44:11]
C
Unless you're a part, you shouldn't say.
- [44:12]
B
I know, I know. It's shocking, shocking, shocking. But it. But being in a labor union, which, of course, we, you know, here at Hillsdale Econ Department, don't exactly endorse them always as the best thing, but being in one has opened my eyes to the. The diversity of different organizations in our labor ecology in the United States. And it's, you know, you need big companies, small companies, labor unions, independent contractors, government. We need it all. They all work together. And I am spending some time exploring that, kind of trying to articulate what I'm learning. And. And also, hopefully very soon, doing some interviews with people that have exciting jobs. And so, yeah, I get to spend some time with both of those things. I'm making no promises about posting regularly, but it has been a wonderful way to just practice my own writing, keep up with that after Hillsdale, because outside of school, unless you are a published writer, a professional writer, it's difficult to keep that practice fresh. And so primarily the substack is for me to keep that part of my brain firing regularly.
- [45:17]
A
Well, hopefully one day we'll be able to call you Captain, correct?
- [45:21]
B
I would one day. I'll let you know.
- [45:24]
A
Well, hopefully not too much longer, like you said. You said you have a goal of 40. I think that's probably. I would guess that would happen a little bit earlier than that.
- [45:33]
B
Well, we'll find out if the Lord wills it, if, you know, if Lord willing, in the creek don't rise, as they say.
- [45:41]
A
Well, thank you so much for being our guest today. Fascinating experience. And if you run into Margaret on the open seas, you know, we got a Hillsdale graduate in charge, so hopefully we're in good hands.
- [45:54]
B
Thank you so much for having me. This is. Is. Oh, this has been lovely. Thank you guys so much for having me.
- [46:00]
C
Thank you.
- [46:00]
A
Thank you. And for Colleen Beginnis, this is Doug Goodnow thanking you for joining us on the White and Blue podcast. And may that spirit long remain.