The Aeneid and Roman Mythology

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Aeneid and Roman Mythology
Hillsdale College Podcast Network Superfeed
Host: Scott Bertram | Guest: Dr. Eric Hutchinson
Date: May 4, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the figure of Aeneas as depicted in Virgil's Aeneid and his significance in Roman mythology. Host Scott Bertram is joined by Dr. Eric Hutchinson, Associate Professor of Classics and Chair of the Collegiate Scholars Program at Hillsdale College. Together, they discuss Aeneas’ mythological roots, how Roman culture embraced him, themes within the Aeneid that provoke discussion in education, and the contrasts between Greek and Roman heroic ideals.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Who is Aeneas? Origins and Mythological Roots

• Aeneas as a Greek Figure:
  • First appears in Greek mythology, notably in Hesiod’s Theogony and Homer’s Iliad.
  • In the Iliad, he is a key Trojan warrior, appearing 82 times and especially prominent in Books 5 and 20.
    • “He is one of the Trojans, better warriors. He's mentioned, I think, 82 times... particularly features in books 5 and 20 of the Iliad.” (Dr. Hutchinson, 01:08)
• Adoption by Romans:
  • The Romans had limited indigenous myth, so they culturally borrowed and adapted Greek myths, making Aeneas their foundational hero.

2. Aeneas' Transition into a Roman Hero

• Divine Intervention & Survival:
  • Aeneas is saved multiple times by the gods in the Iliad.
  • This signals a divine plan: his survival ensures the continuance of the Trojan line post-war, setting up his later association with Rome.
    • “The fact that the gods intervene on their behalf... is just a sign of their prowess...” (Dr. Hutchinson, 02:14)
• Roman Assimilation:
  • The myth evolves to connect Aeneas to Italy, enabling Romans to claim him as an ancestral figure, a patron hero symbolizing continuity and virtue.

3. Classroom Engagement: Provocative Episodes in the Aeneid

• Events Sparking Discussion:
  • Book 2: The sack of Troy—action-packed and detailed account.
  • Book 4: The tragic romance and ethical debate surrounding Aeneas and Dido.
    • Discussion often revolves around love, duty, and divine command.
    • “Dido seems to think that they're married and Aeneas doesn't. And so that presents, as one can imagine, a rather delicate problem.” (Dr. Hutchinson, 04:53)
  • End of the Poem: Aeneas killing Turnus—debates on mercy, justice, revenge.
    • “At the end of the poem, Turnus submits to him, asks for mercy and is not a threat any longer... in sudden wrath he kills him. So this too is, is something that's really great to discuss with students.” (Dr. Hutchinson, 07:31)

4. Aeneas vs. Other Epic Heroes: Teaching Interest

• Contrasts Highlighted in Education:
  • Aeneas’ sense of duty (pietas) versus Achilles’ or Odysseus’ focus on personal glory/satisfaction.
    • Achilles: Withdraws from battle out of wounded pride, acts from personal motivations.
    • Aeneas: Subordinates personal desires to duty, responsibility towards gods, family, and country.
      • “Aeneas doesn't have the confidence of an Achilles... but he has something that Achilles doesn't really have, which is a sense of duty and responsibility toward others.” (Dr. Hutchinson, 08:33)
• Modern Resonance:
  • Students begin to appreciate Aeneas’s universal predicament—balancing desire and duty—relating it to their own lives.

5. The Core Roman Virtue: Pietas

• Definition and Illustration:
  • Pietas encompasses duties toward gods, country, and family—“dutifulness” as the best translation.
    • “The easiest way to think about pietas is as an overarching concept that involves one's duties toward one's gods, one's country, and one's family.” (Dr. Hutchinson, 10:49)
  • Iconic Scene:
    • Aeneas fleeing Troy, carrying his father (Anchises), guiding his son (Ascanius), and bringing household gods—visual embodiment of pietas.

6. Duty vs. Independence: Student Reactions

• Contemporary Context:
  • Modern culture values independence, yet students now increasingly recognize the pitfalls of excessive individualism—feelings of isolation and loneliness.
  • Aeneas’s ethic of duty is presented as a timely counterbalance.
    • “...it's becoming a bit more intuitive because we've seen some of the results of unrestricted freedom, living for oneself, living primarily for the gratification of one's own desires. And it's resulted in this widespread... loneliness and isolation.” (Dr. Hutchinson, 13:09)

7. Roman Values Reflected in Aeneas

• Ancestral Responsibility:
  • Obligation to the past, tradition (“mos maiorum”), gods, and the larger community are central Roman values seen in Aeneas.
    • “Obligation to one's ancestors in the past was a big Roman, was important to the Romans. Obligation to one's fellows in the present is a crucial concept...” (Dr. Hutchinson, 14:49)

8. Greek vs. Roman Heroes: Enduring Contrasts

• Greek Heroes:
  • Achilles seeks individual glory; Odysseus strives for his own return, often at the cost of his companions.
  • “Consider somebody like Odysseus who leaves from Troy and has a bunch of people with him... But by the time he gets back to Ithaca, he's alone again. So his chief objective is for himself...” (Dr. Hutchinson, 16:19)
• Roman Heroes/Aeneas:
  • Emphasizes solidarity, responsibility for others, and representing his people—a reflection of Roman ethical focus.
    • “Aeneas is, it represents his people in a way that Achilles does not and Odysseus does not.” (Dr. Hutchinson, 17:14)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Aeneas’ Distinctiveness:
  • “Aeneas is a very different kind of hero who often has to subordinate his own desires... The world is not set up for us to just do whatever we want, whenever we want to.” (Dr. Hutchinson, 09:01)
• On Pietas:
  • “He's literally carrying his people's religion and his own family on his back.” (Dr. Hutchinson, 11:28)
• On Modern Relevance:
  • “If [freedom is] not balanced by some corresponding concept of obligation toward others, it quickly becomes a sort of self-defeating and miserable experience.” (Dr. Hutchinson, 13:55)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:08 – Aeneas’ first appearances in Greek myth and The Iliad
• 02:14 – Divine intervention and Aeneas’ survival as mythological precedent for his Roman role
• 04:53 – The Sack of Troy, Dido episode, and debates on Aeneas’ actions
• 08:33 – Contrasts between Aeneas and heroes like Achilles, classroom approaches
• 10:49 – What is Roman pietas? How to teach it effectively
• 13:09 – How students today relate to the balance between duty and individual freedom
• 14:49 – Roman values brought out in the character of Aeneas
• 16:19 – Key differences between Greek and Roman heroic ideals

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Conclusion

Through Dr. Hutchinson’s insights, this episode offers a rich discussion on Aeneas’ journey from Trojan hero to emblematic ancestor of Rome, the central role of pietas, and the enduring contrasts between Greek and Roman values. The conversation provides practical guidance for educators and deepens appreciation of how epic literature reflects—and challenges—views on duty, freedom, and what it means to be heroic.

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Transcript

[Scott Bertram]

Welcome to The Hillsdale College K12 classical education podcast, bringing you insight into classical education and its unique emphasis on human virtue and moral character, responsible citizenship, content, rich curricula and teacher led classrooms. Now your host, Scott Bertram.

Thanks for listening. The Hillsdale College K12 Classical Education Podcast is is part of the Hillsdale College Podcast Network. More episodes at podcast hillsdale.edu or wherever you get your audio. You also can find more information on topics and ideas discussed on this show at our website, k12hillsdale.edu.

[Podcast Host]

We're joined today by Dr. Eric Hutchinson. He's associate professor of Classics and chair of the Collegiate Scholars Program at Hillsdale College. Dr. Hutchinson, thanks for joining us.

[Dr. Eric Hutchinson]

Thanks for having me, Scott.

[Podcast Host]

Dr. Talking today about Aeneas and Roman myth, let's start with the basics. Who is Aeneas? Why does he become such an important figure in Roman myth?

[Dr. Eric Hutchinson]

That's a good question. We tend to associate Aeneas mostly with Rome, primarily through the influence of Virgil's Aeneid. But Aeneas is a figure that actually goes back to Greek mythology. He's mentioned in a very early Greek poem called the Theogony by a poet named Hesiod, and we can come back to that if you want to. But he also plays a pretty prominent role in Homer's Iliad, fighting on the side of the Trojans. So he is one of the Trojans, better warriors. He's mentioned, I think, 82 times by, I think that's the right number, 82 times in the poem as a whole and particularly features in books 5 and 20 of the Iliad. And so again, he's one of the, the chief and best fighters on the Trojan side in the Trojan War.

[Podcast Host]

So as you mentioned, Aeneas appears first in the Iliad before becoming Rome's hero. How do teachers help students understand that transition from a Trojan warrior to the ancestor of Rome?

[Dr. Eric Hutchinson]

Yeah, at first sight, it seems kind of curious that the major hero of the Romans would not be a Roman. And part of the reason for this is that that the Romans don't really have much in the way of, of native myths in the way that, in the way that the Greeks do or in India or in lots of other cultures around the world. I mean, they must have told stories because I don't know of any human society that doesn't tell stories. But it's curious that we don't have a large body of sort of indigenous Roman myth. And so what they end up doing is borrowing a lot from the Greeks, whom they wanted to emulate culturally in a lot of ways. And in terms of their literature and art and everything. And Aeneas was. Is who. Who early, fairly early became associated with. With Italy through various accounts of. Of. Of what happened in the aftermath of the Trojan War was sort of an ideal, or at least became an ideal figure for the Romans to adopt. One of the things that happens in the Trojan War, in the episodes of the Trojan War that are recounted in Homer's Iliad, is that a couple of different times, Aeneas is rescued via divine intervention. So he's rescued by the gods, he's rescued by Aphrodite, and then when Aphrodite is injured, Apollo sort of finishes off the rescue. He's rescued again later in the poem by Poseidon. And the modern reader might think, oh, this is a sign of weakness. If, you know, if these guys are really heroes, how come they don't just save themselves? But actually in the world of the Iliad, it's sort of the opposite. So the best heroes are already superior to everybody else. And the fact that the gods intervene on their behalf and help them is just a sign of their prowess rather than indicating some kind of diminution of their prowess. Anyway, when he's rescued the second time by poseidon in book 20 of the Iliad, there is this indication that this is by a sort of by divine plan, because he is meant to survive the war and sort of carry on the Trojan line because the house of Priam is going to be, you know, wiped out in the war. And so it's not too big of a leap to go from that. If there's a way to connect him to Italy, as there was just sort of in the mythological tradition anyway. It's not too far of a leap then for the Romans to sort of adopt him as their. As their kind of patron heroes.

[Podcast Host]

So what parts of Aeneas story tend to spark the most curiosity or the most discussion inside the classroom?

[Dr. Eric Hutchinson]

I think usually. Well, I'll give a few in most classes. My sense is, is that classes tend to focus on the first half of the poem, books one through six, which, which includes the. The Wanderings of Aeneas. It includes that. Well, first it includes our most detailed account of the sack of Troy and the Trojan horse. You know, all these famous things are in book two of the Aeneid, and then his wanderings, his arrival in Carthage and his involvement with Dido, the queen of Carthage, her suicide, and then departing and going to the underworld after he has arrived at Italy. The second half of the poem, which is really the war half, is taught much less. But there are things in both parts of the poem that I think do appeal to students. A few of the chief ones are book two, the story of the sack of Troy. It's full of action and it's very fast paced. It's very interesting. It's very fun to read and to talk about. The failed romance between Aeneas and Dido in book four is another one that tends to. That can easily provoke a lot of student discussion, particularly because Dido seems to think that they're married and Aeneas doesn't. And so that presents, as one can imagine, a rather delicate problem. And he, he leaves at the behest of the gods. And as I said a moment ago, Dido kills herself in the aftermath of this. So the question of the ethics that surround that can. Can be very useful for, for discussing all of the related topics with students. You know, what, what would have constituted a marriage between them? Is Aeneas right to leave? What if the gods tell, I mean, if the gods tell him that he has to. What is his responsibility in that situation? Those kinds of things. And the other one that, that can really provoke a lot of good discussion, I think is the very end of the poem where Aeneas kills his adversary Turnus. The war in the second half of the poem kind of turns around. There this woman, Lavinia, who had been betrothed to Turnus before the arrival of Aeneas, but she is to be his bride. And this is going to be the start, sort of the new royal line in Italy. And Turnus, as one can imagine, isn't too interested in that happening. So this leads to a war. And in the course of that war, Turnus kills a young man named Pallas that had been entrusted to Aeneas for sort of, you know, watching over him in the war and everything. And then Turnus puts on his. His armor, his sword belt. At the very end of the poem, there is a sort of duel between Aeneas and Turnus, but Aeneas ends up on the superior side of that. And at the end of the poem, Turnus submits to him, asks for mercy and is not a threat any longer. And Virgil says basically that Aeneas is about to grant it. But then he sees this sword belt that he's wearing that had belonged to Pallas, and in sudden wrath he kills him. So this too is, is something that's really great to discuss with students. You know, is Aeneas right to do that? Is Aeneas right? From, from a sort of Roman ethical point of view, is that okay? Is that permissible? What about, you know, from Our point of view, how do we evaluate that situation? So those are three of the big ones, I think, that are really fun to talk about with students.

[Podcast Host]

Now some students, certainly not in your classroom, might find Aeneas less exciting than other epic heroes. Are there ways in which teachers perhaps can help them see exactly what makes him so interesting?

[Dr. Eric Hutchinson]

Yeah, I think certainly especially if students have some have some background in, in the Homeric poems, it's pretty easy to draw some contrasts in a way that is fruitful and, and I think beneficial to students. Aeneas doesn't have the confidence of an Achilles or even necessarily the, the prowess of an Achilles, but he has something that Achilles doesn't really have, which is a sense of duty and responsibility toward others, which I think a lot of people do find appealing once they understand what's going on here. Achilles is a very, can be read as a very sort of emo hero. You know, when he doesn't get his way, he withdraws from the fighting and stay. And even when his friends come and ask him to return to the battle and appeal to him on, on, you know, based on their long standing relationship, he says no. And many, many Greeks die as a result of this. And even when he returns to the fighting, it's not because of any sort of newfound loyalty that he feels toward the Greeks as such, but because his best friend Patroclus has been killed. Aeneas is a very different kind of hero who often has to subordinate his own desires, his own wishes, the things that he himself would want in, you know, in an ideal world or if it were entirely up to him. But he's not able to do that. And I think that can be made to make a lot of sense to students. I mean, the world, that is how the world is, that we can't often have our way, that we do have responsibilities toward other people. The world is not set up for us to just do whatever we want, whenever we want to. And I think in that sense there is something very universal about the kind of situation or the kinds of situations in which Aeneas finds himself that can still really speak to a lot of people, even across thousands of years and thousands of miles.

[Podcast Host]

Talking with Dr. Eric Hutchinson, Associate professor of classics here at Hillsdale College, about Aeneas and Roman myth. Now, Aeneas is often described with the Roman virtue pietas. How can teachers explain that concept in a way that students will understand?

[Dr. Eric Hutchinson]

Yes, and that is certainly the chief characteristic of Aeneas. It's mentioned on the very first page of the poem that he's a man famous for his pietas. And that's a word that maybe at initially will. Will seem a little bit foreign to students. Or if they, if they are familiar with that word, they'll probably think of it primarily in religious terms, maybe like going to church or something like that, or something along those lines. Actually, that aspect of it is involved for the Romans, but it's a. It's a bigger concept than that. So the easiest way to think about pietas is as an overarching concept that involves one's duties toward one's gods, one's country, and one's family. So these are kind of the three big areas in. In that in which pietas or piety is. Is manifested. So dutifulness is a good way to. To render that term. And one of the best ways we see it is in the famous scene of. Of Aeneas departing from Troy with their household gods and his father and Kaises on his back and holding the hand of his young son Ascanius as they're going out. I mean, he's, he's literally carrying his. His people's religion and. And his own family on. On his back. And it actually hadn't been initially his desire to escape. He wanted to die fighting in the war like so many of. Of his countrymen had. But he's told that this is his responsibility, that he must do this. So this is one of those times when he has to subordinate his own wishes to. To somebody else or to the will of the gods in. So that he can sort of carry on the Trojan line elsewhere. So his, his country is. Is wrapped up into that as well. So that's a really. If you want to sort of really crystallize for. For people what pietas looks like, I mean, in an image or visually, that's, that's one of the best ways to do it.

[Podcast Host]

I think students today perhaps admire independence, personal freedom more than other things in life. Aeneas, as you mentioned, is driven more by duty. How do students react to seeing that difference?

[Dr. Eric Hutchinson]

I think in a lot of ways, even if there were a time when this was maybe a little bit more alien to students, I think we're actually probably living in a moment when it's becoming a bit more intuitive because we've seen some of the results of unrestricted freedom, living for oneself, living primarily for the gratification of one's own desires. And it's resulted in this widespread sort of phenomenon of loneliness and isolation as kind of the end point of that way of looking at the world. And so I think this is a really nice moment actually for a hero like Aeneas, because the way in which his character is described is in many ways a rebuke to that way of living one's life that I think will be appealing to a lot of people precisely because we've seen the results of loneliness and isolation, as I mentioned. And so I think there can be a kind of almost immediate grasp of why he is the way that he is and why that might be a way of sort of living in the world that makes sense. For as much as freedom is wonderful and we all enjoy its benefits in many ways, if it's not balanced by some corresponding concept of obligation toward others, it quickly becomes a sort of self defeating and miserable experience.

[Podcast Host]

What does Aeneas's story reveal to us about the values the Romans admired most?

[Dr. Eric Hutchinson]

A good question. The Romans felt a sense of responsibility toward the past and toward, toward their ancestors and towards sort of continuing the way of their ancestors. The Latin phrase they use for this is the most mayorum. So the way or the custom of, of the ancestors and Aeneas connects the Romans not only to their own past, but even farther back several centuries to the greatest episode sort of Greek mythological history, which is the, which is the Trojan War. So obligation to one's ancestors in the past was a big Roman, was important to the Romans. Obligation to one's fellows in the present is a crucial concept for the Romans as well. And we see that in Aeneas in the way that he again has to subordinate himself to what is best for others. So, so that's another sort of key Roman value, I guess, that we see in Aeneas. Devotion to the gods and sort of to traditional piety. Those are, I suppose, some of the chief things I would say we see in Aeneas in a way that the Romans kind of see themselves reflected in him.

[Podcast Host]

Final question for Dr. Eric Hutchinson from our classics department here at Hillsdale College, talking about Aeneas and Roman myth. When students begin to compare Greek heroes and Roman heroes, are there some interesting contrasts that tend to emerge?

[Dr. Eric Hutchinson]

The biggest one is one that we touched on previously, the sense of obligation that one owes to others. I mean, I've mentioned Achilles, but actually we can kind of see the difference more broadly in Greek mythology. I mean, consider somebody like Odysseus who leaves from Troy and has a bunch of people with him when the story starts or when his, when his journey starts. But by the time he gets back to Ithaca, he's alone again. So his, his chief objective is for himself to get back to Ithaca. That sense of solidarity, I think with others, with one's fellow citizens is a key emphasis of, of Roman storytelling that very much is of a piece with, with kind of Roman ethics in general that does tend to set them, set a Roman hero like Aeneas apart from his, his counterparts in the Greek world, even, even while he, he shares in many of the similar sort of story patterns that we see. He's a warrior like Achilles is, he's a wanderer like, like Odysseus is. But that sense of, of being a representative, and that's maybe the best way to think about it. Aeneas is, it represents his people in a way that Achilles does not and odysseus does not.

[Podcast Host]

Dr. Eric Hutchinson is associate professor of Classics at Hillsdale College, also chair of the Collegiate Scholars Program, talking today about Aeneas and Roman myth. Dr. Hutchinson, thanks so much for joining us here on the Hillsdale College K12 Classical Education Podcast.

[Dr. Eric Hutchinson]

Thanks for having me.

[Scott Bertram]

I'm Scott Bertram. We invite you to like us on Facebook search for Hillsdale College K12 classical education. You also can follow us on Instagram hillsdalek12. That's hillsdalek12 on Instagram. Thank you for listening to The Hillsdale College K12 classical education podcast, part of the Hillsdale College Podcast Network. More at Podcast Hillsdale. Edu or wherever you get your audio.