The American Imagination: Fables, Freedom, and the Nation’s Story

Summary

---

Podcast Summary:

The American Imagination: Fables, Freedom, and the Nation’s Story
Hillsdale College Podcast Network Superfeed
Host: Hillsdale College (Interviewer: Larry O'Connor)
Guest: Dr. Matthew Meehan, Associate Dean & Associate Professor, Van Andel Graduate School of Government
Date: May 14, 2026

---

Episode Overview

In celebration of America's 250th anniversary (the "semiquincentennial"), this episode explores how stories, imagination, and rhetoric have shaped the nation’s history, values, and sense of freedom. Dr. Matthew Meehan discusses his new book, The American Book of Fables, a family-friendly, richly-illustrated work designed to rekindle the patriotic imagination that inspired the founders and educate new generations about the nation’s founding virtues, stories, and principles.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The American Book of Fables: Purpose & Structure

• Book Overview:
  • A large, heirloom-style book with sections for “littles, middles, and bigs” (children, young adults, adults).
  • Combines nursery rhymes, classic and new fables (including regional American fables), and excerpts from primary sources (letters, stories) tied to the Declaration of Independence and the spirit of America (02:08–03:26).
• Educational Intent:
  • Intended to serve American families as a resource for learning and appreciating the nation's story and principles across ages.
  • "I wrote a family book so the child can grow up with the book, but also a parent and an adult or a young, you know, a high school or a middle school reader can get a lot out of this." – Dr. Meehan (03:26)

---

2. Restoring the "American Imagination"

• Historical Approach to Education:
  • The founding generation relied on fables, stories, and the liberal arts to educate children before the advent of a nationwide public school system (04:42–05:24, 05:24–06:59).
• Role of Imagination:
  • Cites Seneca, whom Washington admired:
    • "Seneca says this about the imagination, that it's like a pantry and it helps you cook every decision. The ingredients are your imagination." – Dr. Meehan (05:42)
  • The founders’ robust imaginative resources—wisdom, wit, rhetorical skill—enabled them to make wise and courageous choices.
• Modern Deficit:
  • "...we're feeding ourselves some pretty thin gruel today. And at most we get something pretty or cute or funny, but it's not witty and it's not wise..." – Dr. Meehan (06:29)
  • Meehan aims to restore this depth and substance to modern American self-understanding.

---

3. Individualism, Wit, and Self-Government

• The Founder’s Vision:
  • Emphasizes the uniquely American fusion of individual initiative and the common good.
  • "They understood that individual virtue was the kind of stuff of heroes, but it's also the stuff of a common, free people..." – Dr. Meehan (07:48)
  • Self-reliance doesn’t preclude serving the community; indeed, individuals who are independent, thoughtful, and moral serve others best.
• Democratic ‘Wit’:
  • Describes the imagery atop the U.S. House of Representatives:
    • "...on the pediment of the House of Representatives, the apotheosis of democracy... the lady democracy is protecting a little child. And that child is the genius of democracy, which is the fancy Latin word for wit..." (08:20)
    • Preserving the people's wit and resourcefulness is vital to republican self-government.

---

4. Imagination, Rhetoric, and American Persuasion

• Persuasion vs. Force:
  • The founders’ challenge: convince the colonists not only that independence was right but possible—and that freedom could work (09:21–10:19).
  • "...the only options are either words or swords. Either you convinced your neighbor to join you, or it's the jackboot. Right. It's either force and fear, or it's persuasion and friendship." – Dr. Meehan (10:41)
• Rhetoric as a Liberal Art:
  • Mastering rhetoric and persuasion was central to America's creation and ought to be restored as a central educational ideal (13:17).
  • "The arts of liberty, or the liberal arts... the summation of that was actually rhetoric, because rhetoric was the ability to talk about all the arts and sciences such that you can organize life together."

---

5. The Best Writers of the Founding Era

• Jefferson, Adams, Paine:
  • "Jefferson was a beautiful writer. But I think the wittier and wiser writer is probably John Adams..." – Dr. Meehan (11:43)
  • John Quincy Adams was the first rhetoric professor in America, demonstrating the lasting significance of rhetorical skills among the founders (12:45).
  • Thomas Paine cited as a master of connecting with common people and inspiring broad public sentiment (12:45).

---

6. Book Design & Artistic Purpose

• Intentional Design:
  • The illustrations (by a "realist impressionist" rooted in classical tradition), the typeface, and the layout were all designed for beauty and to serve as a true keepsake (14:36–15:47).
  • "He did 13 gorgeous oils, one for each chapter, but then he did dozens of watercolors that are absolutely stunning. And then tons of pen and inks. And we kind of had a lot of pen and inks because we. It's almost like an image of the Declaration of Independence becoming America..." – Dr. Meehan (15:10)
• Mirroring American History:
  • The unfolding visual style is meant to echo America’s historical development: from scribbled idea to flourishing culture and nation.

---

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Imagination as Pantry:

  • “The imagination, that it’s like a pantry and it helps you cook every decision. The ingredients are your imagination...” – Dr. Meehan, 05:42

• On American Wit and Self-Government:

  • “Protect the witty nature of men to shift for themselves. We start businesses, we start schools, we find a spouse, we raise a family. Like we do stuff. And that is actually a kind of habit that you have to do where you don’t wait around for someone else to provide for you. You know how to shift for yourself.” – Dr. Meehan, 08:20

• On Persuasion and Friendship:

  • “The only options are either words or swords. Either you convinced your neighbor to join you, or it’s the jackboot. Right. It’s either force and fear, or it’s persuasion and friendship.” – Dr. Meehan, 10:41

• On Book Design:

  • “...first a scribble on a piece of paper, then it starts to take color and then it expands into these, the gorgeous panorama of the American people and the American history. And it’s such a beautiful thing. We wanted to sort of have a kind of mirror of that unfolding of American history in the actual art itself.” – Dr. Meehan, 15:10

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:08] Introduction of The American Book of Fables and its structure
• [05:24] Meehan describes his research into the educational philosophy of the founders
• [05:42] Seneca’s influence on Washington and the centrality of imagination
• [07:48] The interplay between individual virtue and communal benefit in America
• [08:20] Discussion of the genius of democracy and the protection of wit
• [10:41] The founders’ use of rhetoric and persuasion
• [11:43] Meehan names John Adams as the most rhetorically powerful founder
• [13:17] The cultural literacy and rhetorical skills of everyday Americans
• [14:36] Intentions behind the art and physical beauty of Meehan’s book

---

Conclusion

This episode offers a rich exploration of how fables, imaginative education, and the art of rhetoric not only underpin America’s founding but remain vital to its future. Dr. Meehan’s American Book of Fables is presented as both a celebration of the nation’s 250th anniversary and a tool to revive the wit, virtue, and creativity necessary for self-government and the pursuit of happiness in each new generation.

---

Transcript

[A]

This show is a part of the Hillsdale College Podcast Network. If you like what you hear, please subscribe to your favorite. You'll get brand new episodes of all your favorite shows sent right to your device and you'll help us know that you're out there listening. Never miss another episode by going to Podcast Hillsdale. Edu subscribe. That's Podcast Hillsdale. Edu subscribe or click the Follow or Subscribe button on Apple podcasts, Spotify or YouTube.

[B]

To celebrate 250 years of freedom, Hillsdale College's Matthew Spalding, along with professors From Hillsdale in D.C. sit down with Larry O' Connor of WMAL to discuss the truths that make this country great. This is Hillsdale on the Hill.

[C]

As you know, we're celebrating America's 250th anniversary this year. It's the something centennial. It's hard to pronounce, it's just, it's 250. Can we just call it America 250? And part of that celebration is every couple of weeks we're connecting with our friends at Hillsdale College, specifically Hillsdale College's Washington D.C. campus. That's where the Van Andel Graduate School of Government is located and it's where they offer a part time MA in Government for all young professionals. You really need to look at this. It will advance your career and it will advance your love and appreciation for our founders and our nation. And we continue that conversation today with Dr. Matthew Meehan, Associate Dean and Associate professor of Government at the aforementioned Van Andel Graduate School of Government and and by the way, author, your book comes out next week. Dr. Means, thanks for joining us this morning and tell us about your book cause I think it sort of fits in with our conversation today.

[D]

Yeah, it's a kind of a reintroduction of the founding imagination for people. It's called the American Book of Fables. It's a big sort of hardback, giant heirloom coffee table style family book with tons of beautiful illustrations. But it's basically got sections for littles, middles and bigs. And it features Hugh Manatee, a madcap creature. But it also has nursery rhymes for littles, fables from Aesop, but also new ones, all keyed to the American regions. And each of the 13 chapters in honor of the 13 colonies actually has a sentence or a word or a phrase from the Declaration and walks through the Declaration while walking through the country to explain both the principles, the people and the places of the country.

[C]

What a great concept. I love this so much and obviously great for all the homeschool parents out there who really do, they're starved for good pro American patriotic US history materials. It's amazing how hard it is to find good stuff like this. And it also sounds to me like a great maybe late Mother's Day present or early Father's Day present because moms and dads, grandmas and grandpas, godparents, they love reading to little ones. And what better story to read to little ones than the story of America?

[D]

Yeah, it's got this nursery rhymes from Mother Goose from the founding period and the New England Primer, but also new ones that are keyed to the American experience. And it has fables, but it also has a section for Biggs. So there's primary sources, letters from John Adams and Abigail Adams. I write short stories that frankly I think are pretty darn good, like in the sort of American literature. They're very nice. Excellent. You know, I'm a literary trained guy. I'm a best selling author. Like let's go to town for a 250. Nothing's too great, right? But so there's, there's actually lots for the adults too. I wrote a family book so the child can grow up with the book, but also a parent and an adult or a young, you know, a high school or a middle school reader can get a lot out of this. So it's for every part of the family.

[C]

Well, and I'm looking at it right now, Dr. Man, and it is a beautiful book. The illustrations are fantastic. And you're right, this is one of those like a coffee table book or one of those prize books, you know, the books on the bookshelf where you don't actually put it. So just the spine is looking out. You, you flip it around so the COVID is seen. It's like a showcase book in my opinion. It's beautiful.

[D]

I wanted to do that for, for America's 250. I mean we just gotta do it like you can't spare no expense, as they said in Jurassic park, but hopefully with less tragic results this time.

[C]

So it's the, the American Book of Fables. And it's officially due out on the 19th. But everyone knows how this works. You can start pre ordering it now and rack up those orders and those sales. Looks like a collector's item. Dr. Mann. So let me ask you, when you had to research this book, I know you've been focusing. I've heard you use this phrase, the American imagination. This idea of telling stories about our founding that, you know, before we had a public school system. We educated our own children and our own community's children. And it was telling these stories and enlightening the imagination of young people about how incredible America is. That was a big part of our culture. It should be a part of our culture going forward.

[D]

I wound up, in preparation for the book, I studied a lot about how did the founding generation educate their children and how did they sort of store the imagination. So professorial privilege. I'm going to get nerdy for a second.

[C]

But Seneca, we expect no less from you Hillsdale types.

[D]

Thank you. We're incorrigible. Seneca is the great Roman philosopher who was Washington read, memorized and used in his speeches and letters all the time. The Seneca says this about the imagination, that it's like a pantry and it helps you cook every decision. The ingredients are your imagination. And if your ingredients are stale or they're way back in the back, when it's time to make a difficult choice, if you don't have the right ingredients, you will make a bad choice. And so I wanted to see what was in the pantry of the imagination that allowed these founders to cook up this American Republican, make so many smart choices and brave choices, all the things they did in the Revolutionary War. And so I wound up studying all that and realized, oh my goodness, we're feeding ourselves some pretty thin gruel today. And at most we get something pretty or cute or funny, but it's not witty and it's not wise. And that's what I'm trying to re, sort of restore the American imagination so that we have that witty, wise kind of self government, an imagination that can fight for and defend liberty, but also pursue happiness. In that way you hope that someone who's self governing as opposed to a peasant or a subject or a slave, that sort of that free person who's steely eyed and smart, knows how to use every part of the buffalo.

[C]

And I love the way you put this because if you look at much of academia today who are sort of looking at the world skewed from the left perspective and the political left, they'll say that the big thinkers and the big political imaginations among us today, they're all looking at socialism, they're all looking at social programs and the potential and possibility of what the government can do on behalf of the collective instead of this, this individualism, the individual imagination where maybe our dreams and our aspirations and our vision don't fit in with what the collective demands. That's a very American idea, isn't it? This American founding imagination, you're talking about. These men were brilliant, but they had a vision. They had. They had a vision of our own personal liberties and our personal potential, not of a collective possibility.

[D]

They understood that individual virtue was the kind of stuff of heroes, but it's also the stuff of a common, free people, that everyone is a kind of hero in their own family, in their own town, in their own city, in their own business, their own school. But that part of that is. It's not that it's almost a both. And you don't even have to do the trade off that if you are that kind of individual, independent, thoughtful, moral, clever person, then you're actually going to be able to serve other people much more adeptly. And instead of, instead of basically this kind of everybody knuckle under and let the government tell you how to help other people and your neighbor, you are like, are you kidding me? I know how to do that. I'm actually, I know how to shift for myself. There's, there's a. If I may, on the, on the pediment of the House of Representatives, the apotheosis of democracy, meaning we're going to elevate the people to its highest status ever, because America is now going to be a democratic republic and the people are going to be in charge of the people's house. The lady democracy is protecting a little child. And that child is the genius of democracy, which is the fancy Latin word for wit, that is democratic or republican wit. And the argument is don't stifle the people's wit by making too many laws. Protect the witty nature of men to shift for themselves. We start businesses, we start schools, we find a spouse, we raise a family. Like we do stuff. And that is actually a kind of habit that you have to do where you don't wait around for someone else to provide for you. You know how to shift for yourself.

[C]

I've never heard it put that way, actually, but it makes perfect sense. And it's again, very much an American idea and the American way of looking at things. These founders, they had to communicate to the colonists at the time that this was the way to go. And I recognize the colonists were also driving this. I mean, they weren't just inflicting independence on the colonists. The colonists wanted it, or a good number of them. But they had to sell them. On the idea, number one, it was the right idea. Number two, we can do it. And number three, we're going to be okay on the other end of it, right? Because all anyone on the planet knew was being a subject subject of a monarch, and certainly the subject of King George iii, these American colonists. So what was needed, number one, for the American imagination to envision what was going to be on the other side? And also what did our founders need to articulate and sort of communicate to the colonists about how we can get there? You know what I mean?

[D]

Yeah. I think that probably there's two things that come to mind. I'll take up one now. I think one is they needed an imagination for the power of rhetoric and persuasion and speech. Right. You just have to be good at talking in order to be good at free society. Now, this is here. I'm telling Larry o', Connor, this is dangerous. I'm pumping up the head of a man who talks for a living.

[C]

But keep going.

[D]

Doctor Me. Yeah, that's right. Sing. Sing of Larry. No, but. But there is this kind of. This knowledge of. Of rhetoric and persuasion and clever speech that can give an image of what we ought to do, because the only options are either words or swords. Either you convinced your neighbor to join you, or it's the jackboot. Right. It's either force and fear, or it's persuasion and friendship. And so you actually have to wittily practice the art of friendship, persuasion, and rhetoric. And my book tries to really bring this out for the next generations of Americans.

[C]

I love that. And by the way, your book is also aided with some gorgeous illustrations. I want to get to those illustrations in a minute. The style of the book, it's the kind of thing that people would really treasure having. Well, I want to button up what we were just talking about. You took the perspective of the rhetorical skills and art to sort of paint the picture of the American founding imagination there that our founders had. First of all, would you agree that who was. Who do you think was the best writer and wordsmith of the founders? Everyone says Jefferson. And obviously they all elected Jefferson to write the Declaration. Do you agree?

[D]

Jefferson was a beautiful writer. But. But I think the wittier and wiser writer is probably John Adams. Ah. Just.

[C]

You don't hear that a lot.

[D]

No, but he really. The letters to Novanglas are some of the most rhetorically genius things that slowly. He's called the. Right. The. The Atlas Right of Independence. Right. He's. He's this incredible fulcrum upon which they turned a lot of minds. And Jefferson came in beautifully with the Declaration of Independence, and he deserves full credit for setting that up. Although my colleague, Matthew Spalding, I know you've had on the program, his book actually shows that Jefferson wrote A little less than we think. And it was actually everyone writing together, including Adams, writing together and editing it such that Jefferson even complained that they ruined parts of it. But so. But I think Jefferson's beautiful, but for a kind of American imagination and rhetoric. I would give John Adams and then his son, John Quincy Adams was the first professor of rhetoric in the history of America at the College of Philadelphia.

[C]

The career of John Quincy Adams cannot be overstated. What that man was able to accomplish and all of the great things that he did. I would also say, I mean, Thomas Paine was a pretty damn good writer in terms of hitting that populist nerve and speaking to the everyman. And you had Washington celebrating common sense, but then you had your factory worker and dude working in the fields reading common sense. That takes real rhetorical skill to be able to have every kind of education level and every kind of class get inspired by what you've written about our independence.

[D]

Yeah, I try to include a lot of sort of folk knowledge, folk hero, folk history and what you find. And I include some of this in different fun ways in the big section letters of just normal people. They were extremely literate. They were very clever and witty because they had gotten this kind of American imaginative education. And, you know, we used to think, and I think we will think again as the education reform continues apace, that the arts of liberty, or the liberal arts, as we call them, or the arts of liberty, that the summation of that was actually rhetoric, because rhetoric was the ability to talk about all the arts and sciences such that you can organize life together. And I think that's something we have to get back to.

[C]

No, I don't disagree. This book, by the way, the American Book of Fables. People of my generation will remember how influential Bill Bennett's Book of Virtue was. Everybody bought it, everyone had it. Everyone used it with their kids, grandkids. That's what this book is. The American Book of Fables and like book of virtues. Dr. Meehan, the art here, not just the grand, sweeping, beautiful full color works of art, but also the typeface, the layout of the book. This was really intentional to make this book so beautiful and such a keepsake. Talk to me about your intentions there and why this was such a big important part of this endeavor.

[D]

Like I said before, for the semi quincentennial for America's 250th semi quincentennial. There you go. You got it.

[C]

Yeah, there it is.

[D]

Semi quincentennial, you have to go big or go home. It's just got to be beautiful. The country deserves the most beautiful book possible. So my illustrator and I, who are dear friends, and this is our third book together, he's a realist impressionist trained in the Boston School and can trace his lineage all the way back to the workshop in Florence where Rayfield worked. Literally the. So this is a very beautiful classical, but also modern. It's like a mix of modern. It's called realist, impressionist style. He did 13 gorgeous oils, one for each chapter, but then he did dozens of watercolors that are absolutely stunning. And then tons of pen and inks. And we kind of had a lot of pen and inks because we. It's almost like an image of the Declaration of Independence becoming America in that first a scribble on a piece of paper, then it starts to take color and then it expands into these, the gorgeous panorama of the American people and the American history. And it's such a beautiful thing. We wanted to sort of have a kind of mirror of that unfolding of American history in the actual art itself. And it came off beautifully well.

[C]

And as you said, for the Littles, the middles and the Bigs, there really is something for everything here. And by the way, usually the bigs, you know, teens and twenties, they love going back and reading the Littles stuff too. It's incredibly. I know I do. What an achievement this is. Congratulations to you again. The book is the American Book of Fables. It's available next week, the 19th. That's when it'll ship. But go ahead and order it now. Pre order it. Great present. And by the way, get it as Fourth of July presents. Independence Day presents. I know we don't give each other presents on Independence Day, but why not start that this year? Especially this year. And then you can make a habit of reading out of this book with your children, with your grandchildren from this point forward. Congratulations on this achievement. You do Hillsdale proud, that's for sure.

[D]

Thank you, Larry.

[C]

You bet. It's Dr. Matthew Meehan. And thank you for joining us, doctor for our regular conversation here celebrating America's 250, we're really proud at WMAL to partner with Hillsdale on this. Thank you so much and thanks for continuing your great work at Hillsdale.

[B]

Thanks for listening to Hillsdale on the Hill, presented by Hillsdale College. To learn more about the Van Andel Graduate School of Government and Hillsdale's work in our Nation's capital, visit D.C. hillsdale. Edu. That's D.C. hillsdale. Eduardo.