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- [00:02]
Podcast Host
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- [00:52]
Narrator/Announcer
To celebrate 250 years of freedom, Hillsdale College's Matthew Spalding along with professors From Hillsdale in D.C. sit down with Larry O' Connor of WMAL to discuss the truths that make this country great. This is Hillsdale on the Hill.
- [01:15]
Larry O'Connor
We are pleased as always to be joined by Dr. Matthew Spaulding. He of course, from Hillsdale D.C. where he shapes minds full of mush into future leaders. Here, the Hillsdale way. I borrowed a little from Rush Limbaugh, Dr. Spalding, but I did without you mind. Thanks for joining us.
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Dr. Matthew Spalding
As always, nicely said.
- [01:35]
Larry O'Connor
Listen, we've been having this year long conversation here on a regular basis about America 250 and so last week was the big Kahuna. We had the fireworks. July 4th has passed us story over, right? That's it. We declared independence and everyone walks away. It's done, right?
- [01:51]
Dr. Matthew Spalding
Right. Well, this is always one of the hard things in teaching this era and especially from a civic citizen's point of view. You know, a lot of times we think, well, there was nothing was going on. All of a sudden Jefferson wrote the Declaration and then there was a little war in between. And then all of a sudden James Madison came along and with a bunch of other guys wrote the Constitution. Whereas it's much, you know, that didn't happen that way. Indeed, it was a close fought thing. I mean, you know, if we didn't mention it before, I'll mention it here. When those guys signed the Declaration of Independence, it was literally their death warrant. They after the, after they sign it, once the war starts moving, they're all hunted. Many of their children are captured. Some of them are captured and shot. In one case, a signer from New York named Lewis, he wasn't home, but they went to his home. Calvary went to his home and his wife was there. So they, they had a gunboat. She refused to surrender. So a gunboat in Long island harbor opened fire on her until she surrendered and she was imprisoned. So this is not exactly just an armchair intellectual exercise that in hindsight we know played out. This is an Exciting story. But what was accomplished in the midst of all that was extremely important. And recall, this declaration declared independence, but it also announced a nation, which meant, among other things, it triggered a war, which quickly became a worldwide war. Once the French get involved and reshaped, obviously our history, but really much of all of world history, when you think about it, this is a very important moment. And it's not just July 4th.
- [03:31]
Larry O'Connor
Yeah, it's funny, I always sort of get amused by the British Embassy and various newspapers in England when we celebrate July 4th. They always jokingly say, happy Treason Day. Colonialists, that sort of thing. But in reality, let's transport ourselves. 250 years ago this week, the week after the signing of the Declaration, walking the streets of London, what was the buzz like there? What was their reaction?
- [03:58]
Dr. Matthew Spalding
Well, so the document is signed on July 4th, and that afternoon, John Adams was ordered by the Continental Congress to take it around the block, literally, to a guy named Dunlop, an Irish immigrant who had a print shop. And that night, meaning literally overnight, all night on July 4th, they printed about 200 copies of what are called the Dunlop broadsides. That's the broadside that, among other things, you see currently hanging in the President's office, the Oval Office. There are very few copies around. You've got one, hold onto it. They're worth many, many millions of dollars. But the British also got one of those copies surreptitiously, we don't know how. They probably caught it in transport somewhere. They put it on a package ship and sent it immediately to England, and it didn't get there until August 10th.
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Larry O'Connor
Oh, okay, so it wouldn't have been now. It would have been in a couple of weeks.
- [04:54]
Dr. Matthew Spalding
Well, basically, there was no Internet, there was no email, there was no telegraph. There was nothing. But to your point, right. The King has already declared them to be rebels before things get moving. He's already refused to read the Ollie Branch petition. So they all know this is moving towards war very rapidly. So the declaration was kind of potential in the air. But it does, you know, when it gets there, when it arrives, it's, you know, if you think of it on a ship on its way over there now. Well, obviously the British commanders in the North American columns, they know about it. They know it means war. They sent it back to England. And let's put it this way, they were not happy. And indeed, there's actually no evidence the King of England actually saw it or read it, probably didn't, because he'd already decided war was going to be the outcome. And they couldn't officially recognize it, because if they did so that would be to recognize these colonies as a nation. So, Larry, you'll appreciate this. They did what any good political leader would do when he can't put his fingerprints on it. They hired a hack. A hack political writer named John Lind wrote a response to the Declaration events on behalf of the Parliament, which was. It's an attack on the. On the Declaration. You can look it up. It's a long pamphlet, mostly going after the grievances because that was the attack on the King. So they saw it for what it was. But the overarching thing is they knew it meant for sure war. And the Americans are now. The British already decided on war. The Americans have now accepted war by declaring independence. So it really did seal the deal.
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Larry O'Connor
Let's get back to that Dunlop broadside. They made all of these copies, sent one to London, or one got surreptitiously sent to London. What about the others? They had to distribute them around the colonies.
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Dr. Matthew Spalding
This raises question, who is the audience for the Declaration of Independence? We oftentimes think, well, it was the European audience and they were especially appealing to the French court. I can tell you the French court wasn't exactly excited about an attack on the monarchy, whether it was in England or France, for that matter. So the other thing we know and, you know, keep this in between.
- [07:12]
Larry O'Connor
Can I pause there for a second? Because this is important to point out that this, the Declaration is not just about our grievance. I mean, a lot of it is our grievances with King George iii. But the fundamental principle is that we, the people are allowed to govern ourselves. That affects every monarch.
- [07:28]
Dr. Matthew Spalding
That's not an attack. It's not outright attack on the monarchy per se, the way, say, Common Sense by Thomas Paine was. But clearly, I mean, you can't read without seeing that it's about all men being created equal. I mean, not exactly good for the sun God of France. So they weren't necessarily happy. But here, and this is very secret, confidential. Don't tell anybody this, Larry, but I'm convinced the next American treasure movie is going to be on this topic. So they sent, right after the Declaration, they sent one of those copies to France to their agent in France. They would transport, take it to the King or the king's men because they wanted support from the French. Well, that copy of the Declaration in a sealed pouch was tossed overboard somewhere in the Atlantic when the ship was boarded by the British. So I'm convinced the next great movie about the Declaration is going to be a submersive movie looking for a lost copy of the Declaration somewhere at the bottom of the sea. But don't tell anybody. I'm going to make millions, so keep it.
- [08:33]
Larry O'Connor
Well, I'll tell you, we had Jon Voight on a couple of months, I think about eight weeks ago, and I asked him the next day. He was tight lipped. But it does seem like there's a script in the works that would be brilliant. What about up and down the colonies, though? What about getting the word out to the Americans?
- [08:48]
Dr. Matthew Spalding
I think the international audience wasn't the primary objective, it was the domestic audience. This is a document declaring that there's going to be a war and rallying the troops. So most of those Dunlop copies go to all the colonies, all the committees of correspondence all over the colonies. But by order, it specifically went to George Washington to be read to the troops and all of his armies. So we just celebrated on July 9th, they got a copy to Washington very quickly. On July 9th, he ordered to be read aloud to his troops. So it's read aloud on July 9th to his troops. And then in great American tradition and fashion, a bunch of his soldiers went down to the park on lower Manhattan and got some ropes and tore down a huge statue of George iii, which did not make George Washington happy. He thought that was a little too revolutionary. He doesn't like that kind of rabble rousing.
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Larry O'Connor
But this is a gentleman's rebellion. We don't do that sort of thing.
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Dr. Matthew Spalding
But he did give permission and allow it to be melted down to make bullets. Musket balls.
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Larry O'Connor
I love that story so much. For the longest time, I thought that was apocryphal. It was just sort of like George Washington chopping down the cherry table. But yeah, when you go to lower Manhattan, they actually have a little plaque there that shows where it happened. It's so cool.
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Dr. Matthew Spalding
Yeah.
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Larry O'Connor
And that means, obviously the war is on. And when we last checked in in New York, that British armada was right there. They're sitting there in the harbor. They were approaching our church.
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Dr. Matthew Spalding
What's so great about this story about the Declaration? We think, oh, it's a document. And they sit around writing it in comfort and in their little safe space in Philadelphia. But all the while, Washington is reporting on the British. And he reports early on, early June that ships have left Halifax, Nova Scotia. And then he reports a little bit later, they're heading south. And then come the end of June, June 29, they're spotted off of Sandy Hook, which is a spit of land in New Jersey, which is right across from the New York harbor. And so on July 2, the same day they pass independence. And this is just one of those coincidences of history which is overwhelmingly fascinating and powerful. The same day they decide independence, which same day they sign their own death warrants. The British Navy is landing troops on Staten island in preparation for another attack which will be a cross strait attack onto Long island formally, which is launching the war.
- [11:21]
Larry O'Connor
We're going to get into what comes next with the military campaign. And also I want to ask Dr. Matthew Spalding of Hillsdale about this report that we discussed last week coming out of the White House about some problems with the Smithsonian and how they're viewing American history. So we'll get to that all coming up next. This is O' Connor Company. Keep it here. And we're continuing on O' Connor Company here, our regular conversation with Dr. Matthew Spalding. By the way, you need to know about Hillsdale's great programs, especially the graduate program in Washington D.C. in government, you will get an education like none other. And I often mention, Dr. Spalding, that Hillsdale Mafia, you get into the Hillsdale family and there are a lot of job opportunities in this town as a good family.
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Dr. Matthew Spalding
We protect each other. So I kind of like being called the mafia because that means I'm a don.
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Larry O'Connor
There you go. We kiss the ring when you see doctors folding around town. And, and so it's a great education, but it's also a great career move. So you're going to get all that information for you at Hillsdale. When we last spoke here, moments ago, the Navy was landing Staten Island. They're looking at Long Island. This is very real now. And is that part of why George Washington, General Washington wanted to read the declaration to the troops for a morale boost. He wanted to let these men know what they're fighting for.
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Dr. Matthew Spalding
Well, let's put this way, if he's, he's literally on the tip of Manhattan island, well, the, you know, the harbor of New York is some, you know, I don't know, three or four nautical miles. It's a pretty big harbor. But if you're looking across the harbor on a clear morning and you see a massive British warship, Those are huge 60 gun warships. With your naked eye you could probably see British ships in the distance. So absolutely he wanted to read that declaration because now after a year of warfare, they have formally declared independence, which now, this is now a cause. So it changed the whole dynamic. They've been preparing for this potential invasion. It's now upon them. They know it's coming. They don't know where. They know exactly what's going to happen. And this then becomes the great battle of Long Island. So this will be in August when we next can talk about we come back, we'll probably be at that point but that formally begins the war. But the British, they're already landing those troops including which was not known until Washington's intelligence it's announced in the Declaration of Independence. And now they're landing to Hessian soldiers hired German mercenaries who are ruthless and they know those guys are there too. So this is not exactly a nice little warm welcome to they're giving the British here and recall how about this? That the British naval invasion of Staten and Long island. This is what we're talking about right now. That Washington is watching before his very eyes. It's the largest naval and land invasion in world history prior to World War II. So think about that for a moment. These guys have just signed a death warrant and they're about to be overwhelmed.
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Larry O'Connor
But before I lose you, Dr. Spalding, I do want to ask about this report. We discussed it quite a bit last week. The White House came out with kind of a scathing analysis of what the Smithsonian Institute's been doing with the museums in Washington D.C. i think tourists, especially international tourists will be surprised to come to Washington, go to the Museum of American History and not hear stuff like this. They hear very different narratives coming out of that museum. Talk to me about this report, what you know about it and why it is important in terms of reorienting the Smithsonian.
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Dr. Matthew Spalding
It's extremely important. First of all, it's a massive report. So it's 140 pages, 150 pages or something. So this is not a light, small little thing. It's a serious report. Tons of stuff in it. But what I find most compelling, which you can't ignore and the key audience here in many ways is the regents of this Smithsonian which is headed up by the Chief justice and the Vice President is one of the regents and some other appointed members of the Senate and the House. They can't ignore this. This is not petty small minded stuff. There's a lot of detail, a lot of little stuff, a lot of shocking little things having to do with every issue you might dislike. But what's overwhelming is this. The put it all together and the accusation here is this amounts to ideological capture and it has a lot of. It's their own internal documents, their planning documents, their annual reports, those kinds of things. And they say it themselves, their purpose here is to kind of reorient history, to reframe it, to change it away from the narrative. There's no story. I don't know if you've been there. I went there recently myself, looking around, it doesn't tell a story at all. There's no narrative. It's not like we're disagreeing about the narrative. They don't tell one. Instead, what they want to do is tell kind of the shocking things around the edges, which, granted, or the bad aspects of American history, which we should teach, by the way. Slavery in particular. But that's all it is.
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Larry O'Connor
That's not the entirety of this.
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Dr. Matthew Spalding
That's all it is. And so there's no story to go with it. There's no context. There's nothing. So they make it very clear the purpose of this is to undermine the American story, to decenter, as they say, the American founders, that narrative and to make it the ground for an activist population. So it really is a crazy radical, and it has to be addressed.
- [16:47]
Larry O'Connor
It is. And the report is the beginning. But now action needs to take place. And Dr. Spalding, I'd love to have you back to talk about what actions need to be taken, but we're up against it. Go to LarryForHillsdale.com to get information about the great graduate program in D.C. and we'll be back on O' Connor and company.
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Narrator/Announcer
Thanks for listening to Hillsdale on the Hill, presented by Hillsdale College. To learn more about the Van Andel Graduate School of Government and Hillsdale's work in our Nation's capital, visit D.C. hillsdale. Edu. That's D.C. hillsdale. Eduardo.