Hillsdale Dialogues
Episode: America After Charlie Kirk
Date: October 13, 2025
Host: Hugh Hewitt
Guest: Dr. Larry P. Arnn, President of Hillsdale College
Overview
This episode of the Hillsdale Dialogues is a reflective conversation between Hugh Hewitt and Dr. Larry Arnn following the death of conservative activist Charlie Kirk. Dr. Arnn shares his personal memories of Kirk, discusses the future of Turning Point USA (TPUSA), explores the impact of Christian revival on American life, and provides historical insight into the current geopolitical moment, especially concerning Israel and Islamic political reform.
Discussion Breakdown
1. Remembering Charlie Kirk: Personal Reflections and Legacy
[00:01–09:49]
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Origins of Their Relationship:
Dr. Arnn met Charlie Kirk at age 19, initially unsure if Kirk’s fame was merited. Arnn challenged him with difficult questions, prompting Kirk to pursue deeper education, including Hillsdale’s online courses."I met Charlie when he was 19 and 19 year olds are my specialty...he was becoming famous and I wondered if he deserved it. So I asked him some hard questions and he couldn't answer them. And he said, what do I do?"
— Dr. Larry Arnn [00:43] -
Kirk’s Commitment to Learning:
Inspired by a story about Lincoln studying Euclid, Kirk rigorously engaged with Hillsdale’s online offerings, texting Dr. Arnn certificates for over 31 completed courses."He would take them and pass the exam and text me to my cell phone, holding his certificate."
— Dr. Arnn [01:39] -
Memorial Service and Its Atmosphere:
Dr. Arnn delivered the eulogy by request of Kirk’s widow Erica; he describes the event as a blend of memorial, Christian revival, and conservative political gathering, attended by 70,000 people."...combination memorial service revival, Christian revival and conservative political revival. And all those features work together somehow."
— Dr. Arnn [03:18]"I liked the speakers best who talked about Charlie...Marco Rubio was very good."
— Dr. Arnn [04:31] -
Memorable Anecdotes:
Arnn notes Kirk’s respect for him as a teacher, and tells how Kirk took detailed journal notes on Hillsdale courses, especially on Aristotle."Charlie not only took the course, he wrote out notes at night into a journal for a lot of things, including that. And so what a lovely man. And I loved him. And, and he treated me like his teacher."
— Dr. Arnn [03:46] -
The 'List' of Remarkable Young People:
Arnn carries in his mind a list of outstanding young people. Kirk was on it, and other members have reached out after learning about the tribute, but Arnn refuses to rank them."There are two who are on the list. And they both called me more than once to urge me to say that Charlie was the best of all my students. And I said, I'm not going to do that."
— Dr. Arnn [07:25]
2. The Future of Turning Point USA After Charlie Kirk
[11:56–15:14]
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Post-Kirk Optimism:
Immediately following Kirk’s death, TPUSA’s membership doubled; Arnn predicts the organization will grow, powered by Christian faith and commitment to its founding mission."It's going to be bigger and it's going to have a lot of steam. And the people there are believers in Jesus for the most part, almost all. And in the mission of Turning Point. So they'll attack it with energy. Charlie was a singular man. And so they'll miss that."
— Dr. Arnn [12:41] -
The Need for Seriousness and Revival:
Arnn acknowledges Kirk’s labor and seriousness, admiring Kirk’s ability to reason and dialogue even amidst political prominence."...he would go and do what he was doing at the moment of his assassination, which was to sit down with people and reason and give them a fair chance and reason back with them. And that's very powerful. And you have to be a serious man to be able to do that."
— Dr. Arnn [14:15]- Arnn sees American revival—both religious and civic—as necessary and potentially underway, with TPUSA as a contributor.
3. Christian Revival and Its Political Implications
[15:14–24:34]
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Christianity and Freedom:
Arnn connects American revivalism to the preservation of liberty, observing how America’s Christian heritage promotes religious freedom."Judaism... claims to be one God for everybody and to be a blessing for everybody. The covenant with Abraham—this will be a blessing to all the people on the face of the Earth... Jesus comes along and he does something still unprecedented. He claims to be the savior of all, the maker of all, the cause of all. And then he says, my kingdom is not of this world.... So there you go. You're going to have one ruler and savior for all mankind, but you're going to have separate polities. And if you're going to have that, then there has to be freedom of religion."
— Dr. Arnn [17:42] -
The Danger of Political Religion:
Discussion of Islam, with Arnn emphasizing the need for political reform within Islam to allow for freedom of religion and avoid despotism."...political reform of Islam would be to understand that you don't get to govern. In other words, understand the natural law principle of freedom of religion, separation of church and state."
— Dr. Arnn [20:44] -
Defining the American Solution:
Hewitt addresses claims of "Christian nationalism." Arnn refutes such accusations, arguing Christian tenets necessitate voluntary faith and freedom."If you understand Christianity, you understand that in a strict sense Christian nationalism is impossible because Jesus Kingdom is not of this world."
— Dr. Arnn [23:58]"The principle of freedom of religion is also a Christian principle because you have to volunteer to go to heaven."
— Dr. Arnn [24:22]
4. Israel: Security, Leadership, and the Lessons of History
[24:34–37:04]
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Netanyahu and Israeli Preparedness:
Arnn assesses Netanyahu as "one of the few living people big enough to do that job," acknowledging failures of preparedness but praising Israeli resolve and ingenuity since October 7."They weren't ready and so he has some responsibility for that. But they have since then been amazingly, first of all brave and imaginative and they have done wonders and there's still many wonders left to do."
— Dr. Arnn [25:09] -
The Nature of Threats to Israel:
Arnn and Hewitt discuss the persistent dangers faced by Israel and the challenge of imperfect intelligence and ever-evolving threats."Nobody saw that coming. Now we're all ready for that, right? We got all kinds of things in in place. And that means next time it'll be something else."
— Dr. Arnn [30:48] -
Trump’s Relationship with Israel:
Dr. Arnn agrees that Donald Trump has been the "best president ever for Israel," but notes Harry Truman’s support at the nation’s founding."Hard to think of him doing any better. You know, Harry Truman wasn't bad."
— Dr. Arnn [32:09] -
On Optimism and Endurance:
Both remain cautiously optimistic about hostage negotiations and regional security, but Arnn warns that the elimination of Hamas does not ensure lasting peace, given the depth of wickedness in leadership and the unpredictable future."The future, though imminent, is obscure... Who knows Hamas, the leadership and who knows how many of them are still alive, by the way, but they're very wicked. You know, they sponsored rape and pillage and took videos of it... So if they can work wickedness, they will."
— Dr. Arnn [34:11] -
Trump’s Political Underestimation:
Hewitt and Arnn agree that Trump has often been underestimated, and that this has played to his political strengths."It's also a wonderful thing to be underestimated. And if he isn't the most underestimated president ever, ... I think that applies to Donald Trump as well."
— Hugh Hewitt [35:59]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
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On Kirk’s curiosity and drive:
"He was a super young man."
— Dr. Larry Arnn [04:41] -
On Christian revival:
"...now there seems to be some Christian revival underway in America. And I think that's a wholly good thing. And I also think that Christians need to understand that that doesn’t give them being a Christian doesn't give them the title to govern anyone else except in the name of a moral law..."
— Dr. Larry Arnn [22:30] -
On preparedness and historical surprises:
"We will not repeat the mistakes of the past. We will make new mistakes."
— Dr. Larry Arnn quoting Churchill [29:30] -
On the unpredictability of the future:
"The future, though imminent, is obscure."
— Dr. Larry Arnn [34:11]
Key Timestamps
| Time | Segment/Event | |------------|--------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:01 | Introduction; Arnn’s eulogy for Charlie Kirk | | 03:18 | Memorial as Christian and political revival | | 05:35 | Speaking to 70,000 people—personal scale reflections | | 06:50 | Arnn’s list of remarkable young people | | 11:56 | TPUSA after Kirk’s assassination - Arnn’s predictions | | 15:44 | Christian revival, roots, and implications on American life | | 17:42 | Comparative religion and freedom of religion | | 20:44 | Political reform of Islam discussed | | 23:58 | Addressing “Christian nationalism” accusations | | 25:09 | Arnn on Netanyahu and Israeli resilience | | 32:09 | Trump’s and Truman’s support for Israel | | 34:11 | Outlook for peace in Gaza, the enduring nature of threats | | 35:59 | Underestimating Trump—impact on politics |
Conclusion
This episode honors the intellectual and personal legacy of Charlie Kirk while tackling pressing issues of American political life and international affairs. Dr. Arnn and Hewitt engage deeply with questions of leadership, the role of faith in public life, historical lessons from Israel, and the enduring unpredictability of world affairs, all delivered with characteristic Hillsdale gravitas and a focus on the enduring value of serious thought and moral conviction.