Hillsdale Dialogues: Churchill’s My Early Life, Part Four
Podcast: Hillsdale Dialogues
Host: Hugh Hewitt
Guest: Dr. Larry P. Arnn, President of Hillsdale College
Air Date: March 31, 2025
Episode Overview
This episode continues a multi-part discussion of Winston Churchill’s memoir, My Early Life. Host Hugh Hewitt and Dr. Larry Arnn delve into Churchill’s early military exploits, especially on the Indian frontier, and reflect on how the experiences shaped his character, ambitions, and philosophy of leadership. The conversation then draws parallels between Churchill’s era and contemporary geopolitical challenges, with frequent asides about education, military service, and the ongoing mission of Hillsdale College.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
Churchill’s Early Military Adventures and the Spirit of Youth
[01:10 – 04:17]
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Churchill’s Adventurism:
Churchill is described as being relentlessly drawn to conflict—immediately seeking participation in the Malakand Field Force campaign upon hearing of it, mirroring the unquenchable thirst for action among ambitious young officers."Wherever there's a war, is where he wants to go."
—Hugh Hewitt [01:42] -
Motivation for Action:
Dr. Arnn explains that young officers like Churchill saw glory, promotion, and preparation for political life in exposure to battle."If you’re a young soldier, you want to get into the action, if you want to get promoted and especially if you want to go into politics, you want to get your name in the paper. And so he did that by walking up and down exposed to gunfire..."
—Dr. Larry Arnn [02:17] -
Modern Parallels:
Dr. Arnn notes that the adventurous spirit is still alive in students today, referencing Hillsdale graduates eager to work for alumnus Erik Prince.
Hillsdale’s Distinctive Education & Military Preparation
[04:39 – 07:51]
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Hillsdale’s Approach:
Students at Hillsdale share a rigorous common curriculum centered on the humanities and sciences, with the intent of instilling discipline and love for great works."Most people do it out of duty in the beginning, and that’s a very good thing to do. ...but at some point it becomes a compulsion, and then you’re on your way and then you can learn anything after that."
—Dr. Larry Arnn [05:05] -
Military Service:
The college actively supports students interested in the armed forces through its unique, self-funded military training program."We graduate about 350 a year and there might be 10 to 20 going to the military... we don’t take the ROTC stuff because it carries the federal strings."
—Dr. Larry Arnn [06:17] -
Upcoming War Memorial:
Plans are underway for a new war memorial on campus for commissioning ceremonies.
On Producing Historical Media & Civic Education
[08:46 – 10:27]
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Documentary Project:
Hillsdale is working on a feature film series about the Declaration of Independence and America’s founding, blending scholarly narration with dramatization."It’ll be a 10 part series. It’ll start on Memorial Day and end on the 4th of July. And it’ll be about the Declaration of Independence and the founding of the country."
—Dr. Larry Arnn [09:00] -
Broad Vision:
The importance of presenting history with depth, moving beyond quick overviews like John Adams, and focusing on the complexities of the founding.
Reflections on Teaching, Objective Patriotism, and Churchill’s Reporting
[12:58 – 15:41]
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Notable Teaching Philosophy:
Dr. Arnn praises his colleague Prof. Bill McClay’s phrase—"I am objective but not neutral about my country."
—Bill McClay, quoted by Hugh Hewitt [13:18] -
Hiring Teachers:
Dr. Arnn shares a humorous anecdote about only hiring on the ‘family plan’, illustrating his personalized approach. -
Churchill As a Soldier-Writer:
Churchill served as both participant and chronicler, getting recognition—including from the Prince of Wales—for his vivid, sometimes controversial depictions of campaigns and superiors."...he’s highly paid for columns about battles in which he's taking part. And darned if he doesn’t talk about the generals and he’s the second lieutenant. ...Well, he does it quite a lot."
—Dr. Larry Arnn [24:14]
War on the Indian Frontier: Parallels to Modern Conflict
[15:42 – 27:18]
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Extreme Violence & Codes of Honor:
Hewitt and Arnn discuss the intensity of tribal warfare on the frontier, and Churchill’s observations regarding local honor codes and brutality. -
Policy Dilemmas:
The British struggled with three main strategies in Afghanistan:- “Butcher and bolt”: punitive raids (Churchill’s approach)
- Holding the mountain passes
- The "forward policy": occupying territory across the border.
"Go over there and kill a bunch of them back and that'll deter them somewhat. And then getting ready, you’re going to have to go back again another time."
—Dr. Larry Arnn [21:34] -
Enduring Complexity of Afghanistan:
All foreign powers (Alexander, British, Russians, Americans) have faced the same dilemma: it is a land resistant to centralized control or transformation. -
Churchill on Cost and Honor:
“At any rate, at the end of a fortnight, the valley was a desert and honor was satisfied. That’s a very pregnant paragraph.”
—Hugh Hewitt [18:45]
Linking Churchill’s Lessons to Modern Wars
[25:10 – 29:38]
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The Myth of Exporting Democracy:
The failures in nation-building (Iraq, Afghanistan) are contrasted with the relative success in Germany/Japan post-WWII—owing to total defeat and the clear collapse of previous orders.“It just turns out that democracy is a form of government you cannot do for somebody else.”
—Dr. Larry Arnn [28:07] -
Strategic Prudence:
Churchill’s concept of "strategy" aligns closely with "economy"—pursuing objectives via the least costly means."...what you can learn from Churchill is a blessed discipline called strategy, which is in Churchill, the way he uses the word. It’s frequently a synonym for economy. You’ve got to find the cheapest way to get the job done."
—Dr. Larry Arnn [29:58]
Contemporary Geopolitics: Lessons from Churchill for Today
[30:38 – 33:19]
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Rising China Parallels:
Hewitt draws analogies between Germany’s naval build-up pre-WWI and China’s current maritime ambitions."...history doesn’t repeat, but it rhymes and it sure is rhyming right now."
—Hugh Hewitt [31:15] -
U.S. Strategy:
Dr. Arnn notes that the U.S. should pursue coalitions, leverage global alliances, and avoid imposing ideological imperialism."...we should get the world, you know, because as a rule, countries that dominate other countries are not popular in those countries. And that’s China’s way. ...If we go back to our way, which is we just want people to be free and elect their own government and live the way they want to..."
—Dr. Larry Arnn [32:07]
Optimism, Statesmanship, and Civic Renewal
[36:20 – End]
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The Role of Statesmen:
Hewitt emphasizes the need for leaders who combine principle with prudence, seeing Churchill as the archetype."We have to educate people about Winston Churchill... it's become a pressing need because he is a statesman and we need statesmen."
—Hugh Hewitt [29:20] -
Arnn's Churchillian Optimism:
"Churchill always thought it's going to be a hell of a problem and then we'll win. And I think that's what’s happening right now."
—Dr. Larry Arnn [37:17] -
Checks and Balances, Judicial Restraint:
The conversation turns to constitutional checks, stressing legislative remedies rather than partisan escalation."We don’t need to impeach anyone... We need to lower the volume and up the smarts in this."
—Hugh Hewitt [38:26]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
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On Objective Patriotism:
"I am objective but not neutral about my country."
—Bill McClay (quoted by Hewitt) [13:18] -
On Churchill’s Reluctance to Nation-Build:
"Winston Churchill specifically did not try to do that. As a matter of fact, in his whole life, Winston Churchill never proposed the addition of anything."
—Dr. Larry Arnn [27:49] -
On Enduring Frontiers:
"As they understand civilization, it is very much, yes."
—Dr. Larry Arnn [22:42] -
On Economy in Grand Strategy:
"You’ve got to find the cheapest way to get the job done."
—Dr. Larry Arnn [29:58]
Timestamps for Key Segments
- 01:10 - Introduction to Churchill’s Malakand experience
02:17 - Why young officers seek combat
06:17 - Hillsdale’s military track and independence from ROTC
09:00 - Film project on American founding
13:18 - The importance of objective patriotism in teaching
16:40 - Brutality & codes of honor on the Indian frontier
21:34 - Three British Afghan frontier policies
24:14 - Churchill as both soldier and controversial war correspondent
27:49 - Churchill’s thinking vs. modern nation-building
29:58 - Economy and strategy
31:15 - The analogy between imperial Germany & China
37:17 - Churchillian optimism about America’s future
38:26 - Congressional power vs. judicial overreach
Concluding Thoughts
Dr. Arnn and Hugh Hewitt close with a call for renewed attention to statesmanship, strategic wisdom, and the measured optimism exemplified by Churchill—reminding listeners that, while the world’s challenges echo those of the past, so too do the solutions grounded in prudence, courage, and disciplined strategy.