Churchill’s My Early Life, Part Two

Summary

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Hillsdale Dialogues — "Churchill’s My Early Life, Part Two"

Date: March 17, 2025
Participants: Hugh Hewitt (Host), Dr. Larry P. Arnn (President, Hillsdale College)

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Episode Overview

The second installment in a multi-week series examining Winston Churchill’s autobiography, My Early Life, this episode continues to follow Churchill’s formative years as recounted in his vivid 1930 memoir. Host Hugh Hewitt and Dr. Arnn delve into Churchill’s military adventures, his thoughts on empire and luck, and the social mores of late Victorian and Edwardian Britain. The discussion foregrounds Churchill’s role in the colonial wars, the unique society he inhabited, and the character traits emerging in his youth.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Historical Table: The Boer Wars and Imperial Context

[01:12–05:55]

• Churchill’s Early Adventures:
  Dr. Arnn outlines Churchill’s participation in four major conflicts prior to WWI: Cuba, the Indian Northwest Frontier, Sudan, and South Africa—each shaping his early worldview and writing career.
• Battle of Majuba Hill and British Prestige:
  • Hewitt: The British defeat at Majuba Hill (1881) is described as a major stain on imperial honor. “The Brits didn’t lose, much less to a young 19-year-old farm boy.” [03:05]
  • Dr. Arnn: The British had a habit “to always win the last battle,” but the Boers proved a persistent challenge.
• South African (Boer) Wars:
  The Boers are praised for their guerrilla tactics and horsemanship, likened to the “Comanches” for their mobility and marksmanship. [05:55]

  “He calls them the greatest horseback fighters ever that they can shoot and ride. I’m thinking the Comanches.” — Hewitt, [05:55]

2. Churchill’s Dramatic War Stories

[06:12–09:36]

• Armored Train Incident (Preview): Dr. Arnn relates the famous episode of Churchill’s escape from an armored train ambush, praising his initiative under fire—though the hosts note the book's narrative hasn’t reached this episode yet.

  “He records that it was like being in front of an iron target in a target range, people shooting at him ... and he walks around and looks and he studies the situation...” — Dr. Arnn, [08:07]

  • Famous Churchill line to wounded civilian engineer:

    “Buck up, man. In war, no one is ever wounded twice in the same battle. And you are going to get a medal.” [08:45]

3. The Jameson Raid, Cecil Rhodes, and Pre-War Politics

[09:36–17:21]

• Churchill’s Social Sphere:
  Story of an awkward dinner featuring Churchill, John Morley (a “Little Englander” and Cabinet member), and Sir John Willoughby (fresh from the bungled Jameson Raid). The complexity of British imperial politics and society is highlighted.

  “But blood had been shed. And that makes a different tale.” — Hewitt quoting Churchill, [15:26]

  • Dr. Arnn contextualizes Cecil Rhodes as a “tremendous human being ... out there, you know, building the British Empire” and the raid as symptomatic of the chaotic nature of imperial expansion. [14:02]
• Society and Manners:
  The hosts marvel at the rigid etiquette of the day, noting that powerful men could share a table and refuse to speak.

  “It’s a weird society from which Churchill emerges … Pre World War I Britain is different from post World War I Britain in many significant ways.” — Hewitt, [16:57]

  • On British manners:

    “The British would be very good at chopping each other up politely if that’s what they wanted to do.” — Dr. Arnn, [17:21]

4. Churchill and the British Aristocracy

[17:51–20:33]

• Manners, Gender, and Hierarchy:
  Discussion of the British royal family, the accuracy of portrayals in the TV series The Crown, and Churchill’s respectful conduct toward women and superiors.

  “Churchill was very courteous to women ... He was not risqué. He was not discourteous, except in the parliamentary way, to important people.” — Dr. Arnn, [19:14]

• Churchill as a Boss:
  Churchill’s secretaries reportedly adored him despite his brusqueness during stressful times.

  “We’re all toads under the Harrow.” — Churchill’s phrase when comforting a crying secretary, as related by Dr. Arnn, [21:42]

  • Anecdote of Churchill’s distraction-prone budgerigar bird in his home office.

5. Reflections on Leadership and Relationships in WWII

[22:10–24:53]

• Masters and Commanders:
  Comparisons drawn from Andrew Roberts’ account of Churchill’s relationships with American and British generals.
• Alan Brooke's Disappointment:
  Dr. Arnn explains how rivalry and disappointment played out in Britain’s top brass, influenced by the rise of American power.

6. Churchill’s Voyage to India: Benefits of Long, Slow Travel

[24:53–26:57]

• Long Voyages as Intellectual Retreat:
  Churchill made use of sea voyages for study and writing, surrounded by boxes of books and papers.

  “The long voyages were thinking times ... And he was an immensely productive man all his life.” — Dr. Arnn, [25:33]

• Early Life in India:
  Churchill (stationed in Bangalore) found much of idle colonial life stifling, seeking out “relief” through war, polo, and self-education.

7. The Colonial Experience in India

[29:50–34:52]

• Military Hierarchy and Luxury:
  Descriptions of the privileges even junior British cavalry officers enjoyed:

  "Every cavalry subaltern ... gets a butler, a dressing boy, and a groom ... Princes could live no better than we.” — Churchill, as recounted by Hewitt [31:39]

• Churchill’s Restlessness:
  • India as a place of ease and authority, but Churchill was “impatient” and craved challenge and significance.
• Social Status and Reception:
  Churchill’s arrival in India was noticed but not glamorous; he was of a well-connected family but not yet truly prominent in his own right.

8. Financial Straits and the Realities of Empire

[35:10–36:59]

• Polo on Credit:
  Churchill and his fellow officers purchased horses by borrowing at exorbitant monthly interest rates—“They only charged 2%, a month.” [35:10]
  • Hewitt notes Churchill’s flair in writing and self-mockery:

    “He knew it was to be written, not to be read, and he knew he wanted to…” [35:25]

9. Character Formation and the Luck of Life

[36:59–39:52]

• Restless Ambition:
  Dr. Arnn notes Churchill’s emerging “impatience” with comfort and desire for action—traits shaping his later life.
• Luck and Adaptation:
  Anecdote involving Churchill’s dislocated shoulder: it forced him to use a pistol instead of a saber in battle, perhaps saving his life at Omdurman.

  “Life is a whole and luck is a whole, and no part of them can be separated from the rest.” — Churchill, p.102 (quoted at [38:38])

  • Dr. Arnn connects Churchill’s belief in “luck” with Aristotle’s notion that “people with a lot of purposes have more luck than people who have few.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Early Military Writers:

  “He’s probably the most popular author. … And he’s just a kid, you know, and he’s pining about strategy and generals and the rights and wrongs of the war.” — Dr. Arnn [07:35]

• On British Social Protocol:

  “You can get along with anyone in the aristocracy, unless one of them is charged with murder, in which case you can’t be nice to him.” — Hewitt, paraphrasing Churchill [15:26]

• On Luck:

  “Life is a whole and luck is a whole, and no part of them can be separated from the rest.” — Churchill (quoted), [38:38]
  “People with a lot of purposes have more luck than people who have few.” — Dr. Arnn, adapting Aristotle, [39:52]

• On Restlessness:

  “He is not fit to settle into a life of ease and authority. Yes, he’s impatient. He’s impatient with that.” — Dr. Arnn [36:59]

• On Churchill’s Conduct:

  “Churchill was very courteous to women and he was, what would you call it, he was not risqué. … if it’s a person to be respected, he would argue with them with respect.” — Dr. Arnn [19:14]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Churchill’s Early Military Service & the Boers: [02:25–06:12]
• Armored Train Incident Preview: [06:12–09:32]
• Jameson Raid, Morley and Rhodes: [09:36–17:21]
• British Manners & Churchill’s Social Skills: [17:51–20:33]
• WWII Leaders, Diaries, and Legacy: [22:10–24:53]
• Long Sea Voyages and Self-Improvement: [24:53–26:57]
• Life for a Cavalry Officer in India: [29:50–34:52]
• Financial Realities (Polo & Loans): [35:10–36:59]
• Luck, Fate, and Omdurman: [38:08–39:52]

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Overall Tone & Style

The dialogue is lively, scholarly, and affectionate toward its subject, with both participants relishing the anecdotal richness of Churchill’s memoir. Dr. Arnn provides context and scholarly insight, while Hugh Hewitt keeps the pace brisk and accessible, often referring to “Steelers fans” as a stand-in for listeners who may not know all the historical details.

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Final Thoughts

This episode sets the tone for a deeper examination of Churchill’s early life, connecting colorful anecdotes with broader themes of character, ambition, empire, and luck. The conversation is accessible but rich in reference, inviting listeners to read My Early Life alongside the hosts as they continue to draw lessons relevant to leadership, adversity, and the shaping of 20th-century lions.

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Recommended: Start reading or rereading Churchill’s My Early Life for full engagement with upcoming episodes!

Transcript

[Hillsdale College Announcer]

Read along with Hugh and Dr. Arne and enjoy Winston Churchill's My Early Life on a deeper level. Purchase your very own copy of My Early Life at the Hillsdale College Bookstore. Just visit Hillsdale. Edu Radio Learn about the fascinating first 30 years in the life of one of the most provocative and compelling leaders of the 20th century, Winston Churchill, in My Early Life. Hillsdale Hillsdale Edu Radio that's Hillsdale. Edu Radio to buy your copy of My Early Life.

[Podcast Narrator]

Every week Hillsdale College President Larry Arne joins Hugh Hewitt to discuss great books, great men and great ideas. This is Hillsdale Dialogues, Part 1 of the Hillsdale College Podcast Network. More episodes at podcast hillsdale. Edu or wherever you find your audio.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Morning Glory and Evening Grace America. I'm Hugh hewitt, joined by Dr. Larry Arn, President of Hillsdale College. All things Hillsdale are collected at hueforhillsdale.com, the Hillsdale Dialogues. All Things Hillsdale at Hillsdale. Eduardo this is week two of our walk through Winston Churchill's great memoir written in 1930 called My Early Life. He was 54 at the time. World War I was behind him. A lot was behind him. A lot was ahead of him, of course. But I want to go back. Dr. Orr and I missed last week setting up the Battle of Majuba Hill. And the Battle of Majuba Hill is referred to again and again because Lord Salisbury, who we did talk about last week, who is mentioned again and again in My Early Life, is depicted by Winston Churchill as keeping his table clear to settle accounts with the Khalifa and with Majuba's victors in the first Boer War. So let's talk a little bit about the first Boer War and a little bit about Khalifa. Although we covered the River War already. Let's go back and set the table for the Steelers fans who forgot or the people who listen in the morning and have now just come to us in the afternoon.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

So Churchill fought in Cuba, and then he fought he went off to India and he went up and fought on the Afghan border, and then he went back to England and then he went down to the Sudan, wormed his way in there. That's where they fought the Mahdi of Allah. And then his last war before he went into Parliament was he went down and fought in South Africa. So there's four wars and he would eventually fight in the First World War to make a fifth. And so, yeah, the South African war was a mess and it did not go well. And Churchill could see that.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Well, there are two. The first Boer War and then the Second, the first Boer War, the Brits get run out. I'd never read about Majuba Hill of 1881 where the Boers just killed everybody and took a hundred. And it was a stain on the British Empire cause the Brits didn't lose, much less to a young 19 year old farm boy.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

Yeah, well their rule, you know, from something like from the American Revolution until now actually is the British always managed to win the last battle. And so they got, you know, the Boers and the British. The Boers had been in south. Have been in South Africa at that time. They'd been in for 300 years and the British had been there for a very long time and they had gotten on. And you know the story of the British Empire is that it got formalized over time. It wasn't a plan exactly, but the British were going out all over the world and they were making settlements and the British East India Company was making settlements. That's how they got India. So South Africa developed like that too. And Cecil Rhodes was a very important figure, late 19th century because he wanted to formalize all that stuff and had something to do with tensions rising between the Boers, the Dutch settlers to South Africa and the British. And they had a fight and that left a wound on the British which broke out again in 1900. Is that the year?

[Hugh Hewitt]

I think it's around there. The Jameson Raiders are a little bit before. But we'll come back to that next segment.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

1898. And, and, and so they have. So Churchill is involved in the second war. And when the second war started, Churchill was a journalist. He would eventually join up again to the South African Light Horse. Did you mention that in your list because he was a member of that?

[Hugh Hewitt]

No, I listed the British Army.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And well the Brit that was a unit of the British Army.

[Hugh Hewitt]

I did not mention that. South African, South African Light Horse. Yeah, I mentioned that last week.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

Yeah, yeah. And he was, he goes down there and they're fighting the Moers again. And the mowers are very tough and they fight. Guerrilla tactics, they called it that. And they have a big land. It's sort of like the American Revolution except our land is more varied and bigger and they live on the land and they're very hard to corral and they're mobile. They fight from horseback a lot.

[Hugh Hewitt]

He calls them the greatest horseback fighters ever that they can shoot and ride. And I'm thinking the Comanches. That book you told me to read.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Hugh Hewitt]

I'm thinking that the Boers on the Comanches would have been paired off pretty well.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

Yeah, that's right. And the British had a terrible time with them and beat them, finally. But the war. So, you know, the most vivid war story about Churchill, my favorite is earlyish in the South African war, not long after he gets there. He's down there to be a journalist. Remember, Churchill is making princely sums for the time, and his articles are about all of these wars, except he couldn't write about Cuba. They're very widely read. He's probably the most popular author. And then he. All his early books about these wars are bestsellers, and. And he's just a kid, you know, and he's pining about strategy and generals and the rights and wrongs of the war. And from a distance, sort of, you know, he's on the British side, but he recognizes merit in the. In the Boers. And so he's down there, and he's got a reputation. And there's a man named Haldane who knows his reputation, has seen him fight and likes him, and says, come on this train. We're going to get on an armored train and go out to a station and scout. And then the tracks only go one way, and there's no way to turn the train around. So then we're going to back up, all the way back. And Churchill has been on the armored train before, and he doesn't like it very much and doesn't think it's even a very good idea, and, you know, because it's vulnerable. Right. You do know where it's going to go in this case, you know, both directions. And so they go out and get to this place where they're going, and they stop, and then they get back on the train and they're coming back, and they go into a little valley with some rocky hills on either side. And the Boers have some light artillery and rifles, a lot of them, and they're up in the hills behind the rocks and. And they pile rocks up on the track and they shoot at the train. And then the engineer gets going really fast and backs into a pile of rocks and derail some of the cars at the back. And so now they're stuck. And eventually they would lose about 13 people to death, and I think 60 casualties. And they're in fire from above, from protected positions, and they're behind in this metal train, but they don't have anywhere to go. And Churchill, darn if he didn't get out of the thing and walk around and look, he records that in this book. He records that it was like being in front of an iron target in a target range, people shooting at him. And he walks around and looks and he studies the situation. He comes back and he opens the door and he says, we can get this thing loose. Come with me. And so he conscripts a bunch of them. Some of them were killed. And they go to work to. Mostly they use the engine. The engineer is a civilian, is wounded, and Churchill says to him, buck up, man. In war, no one is ever wounded twice in the same battle. And you are going to get a medal. The engineer didn't run away.

[Hugh Hewitt]

I haven't gotten that chapter yet. We'll have to retell that story down the road. I do want to.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

Oh, so we're not there yet.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Okay, we're not there yet. But we'll tell that story at length.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

This is the best war story in the book.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Okay, we will come. That will be in, I think, week four. Let's go back at this point and talk about the Jameson Raiders. It's on page 98 of my edition, which is the William Manchester prefaced edition. Now, I did not read the Manchester Forward because of the advice of your colleague Dr. O' Toole and Alan Bloom's translation of the Republic. He said, read the forward last in a book always so you can make your own impression. I think that's very good advice. I didn't read the Manchester thing, so I'm in chapter eight, chapter seven. It's called Hounslaw. H O U N S L A W And okay, dinner. He's been invited to dinner by his mother, Jenny. She's not there. She's late and invited. Not Churchill's fault. John Morley, who is a very senior Member of Parliament, and Sir John Willoughby, who is on bail awaiting trial for his part in the Jameson raid. So we have to explain Cecil Rhodes, the Jameson raid, and why that wouldn't be a good idea to invite John Morley and Sir John Willoughby to the same dinner. And how Churchill gets through that. Dr. Arne, do you remember it?

[Dr. Larry Arne]

Yeah. Well, so Morley is a great man. Churchill wrote a lovely essay about him and great contemporaries. And he was what they called in the Liberal Party a little Englander. He eventually resigned from the Cabinet on the outbreak of the First World War because he supported the war, but he didn't want to be part of it. And he worked like a man for four years to avoid the outbreak of the war, trying to find a way to get along with Germany.

[Hugh Hewitt]

But it stopped right there. I'll be right back. The Hillsdale Dialogue continues all things Hillsdale at Hillsdale. Edu. I'm Hugh Hewitt. Come right back.

[Mark Levin]

Hello America. I'm thrilled, thrilled to announce my new 10 part podcast series, Liberty and Learning with Mark Levin and Larry Arne. Join me and my dear friend Dr. Larry Arne, President of Hillsdale College, as we dive deep into the founding principles, principles of our great nation. In these challenging times, understanding our history and the ideals of self government is more crucial than ever. We'll explore the core of America's current crises, the changes in our government and what it means for our lives and liberties. From education to borders, citizenship to the separation of powers, we'll cover it all. Tune in to Liberty and Learning with Mark Levin and Larry Arne of Hillsdale College. So subscribe now and join us on this wonderful journey to to rediscover the principles that made America the freest, most prosperous nation in history. Don't miss it.

[Podcast Narrator]

Listen right now to Liberty and Learning with Mark Levin and Larry Arn at Podcast Hillsdale. Edu. That's Podcast Hillsdale. Edu or wherever you find your audio. Hey there, it's Scott Bertram, host of the Radio Free Hillsdale Hour. Anniversaries play a key role in this week's episode. We start with Mark Mark Moyer, William P. Harris, Chair of Military History at Hillsdale College. We discuss the legacy and the lessons learned from the Vietnam War 50 years after the fall of Saigon. Meanwhile, the Great Gatsby turns 100 this year. Benedict Whelan from our English department joins us to discuss the themes in that book. And Julianne Hillock, founding principal at Pozho Academy in New Mexico, talks to us about the unique challenges of running a school in a remote part of the country, plus being honored by the Hillsdale College Alumni Association. All that this week on the Radio Free Hillsdale Hour. Find it at podcast Hillsdale. Edu or wherever you get your audio.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

Foreign.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Welcome back, America. I'm Hugh Hewitt with Dr. Larry Ahn, all things Hillsdale at Hillsdale. Edu. You were saying, Dr. Arne, Cecil Rhodes.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

Was a tremendous human being, by the way, and he's out there, you know, building the British empire and, you know, a lot of charity for the people who lived in the, you know, mostly in undeveloped countries for the people who lived in those places. He meant well by them, but he wanted Britain to grow and civilize the world. And so they get down there and, and they conduct a raid to, you know, and it gets them in deep water with the Boers. Now the see, I'm forgetting what, what what happened?

[Hugh Hewitt]

Well, the Jameson people got caught. Some of them got killed. And those that didn't get killed, Cecil Rhodes disowns them, even though he's probably behind it. And they're trying to go back and take over the gold area because they discovered gold after the first Boer War. And all of a sudden, Cecil Rhodes want the gold, as does Britain. So the Jameson raiders trot in. I think it's to present day Rhodesia or present day Zimbabwe, which had become Rhodesia after it was South Africa and after it was the Boer Empire. And they get slaughtered. These cavalrymen don't do anything. The Boers know they're coming, they shoot them up. And the Brits get their own people back, including Sir John Willoughby. So Sir John Willoughby is arrested. They all go to jail for two years, by the way. They've killed a bunch of people. They've invaded a country, they started a war, but they got two years. But Sir John Willoughby gets invited to dinner and.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

Yeah, yeah.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Then Churchill, his mom's not there, Lady Jenny. And Morley walks in, and the line, which stuck with me, which I wrote down, but blood had been shed. And that makes a different tale. He's talking about, you can get along with anyone in the aristocracy, unless one of them is charged with murder, in which case you can't be nice to him.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

See, the government. That's right. So thank you for helping. I've forgotten the government disavowed this raid and knew nothing of it. And a lot of things happened like that in the Empire. You know, Lord Clive was not who, you know, more or less conquered India for Queen Victoria. He was not sent to do that. He was not even a military man. Just. There was a lot of strife, and he ended up being good at war and diplomacy. And so Jameson is following in those footsteps. Right? And Jameson was in the employ of Cecil Rhodes, and he had 700 horsemen. And so they marched to try to take a place in South Africa that was of strategic importance. And they got completely routed and all of them captured. And so that's a sensation, right, all over the Empire. And so here's young Winston Churchill at dinner with John Morley. Very important man, very greatly respected, who would hate this kind of thing. And one of the guys on trial, convicted, I guess.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Do you remember? They sat. They would not address each other for the entire dinner. So it's a very small table and they would not talk. I mean, it's a weird society from which Churchill emerges. We are repeatedly reminded in my early life that Pre World War I Britain is different from post World War I Britain in many insignificant ways.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

Yeah, well, manners, you know, they have different manners than us. And I always say about my wife, different and more. And so it's really, it's really, you know, because the British would be very good at chopping each other up politely if that's what they wanted to do. But John Morley was a particularly, what we call it, upright guy with a kind of, he was ascetic and so one could see him sitting there in disapproval.

[Hugh Hewitt]

You remind me of a story you've told before, but again, it was in the morning, so I'd like you to retell it in the afternoon. Why you didn't like the Queen or the Crown because it shows Margaret Thatcher at Balmoral not being comfortable. And you of course, dispute that completely.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

Yeah, also Churchill, it shows Churchill and the Queen arguing in ways that there's no record of them arguing. And the truth is Churchill and the Queen adored each other and the record of that is very rich. And, you know, Churchill presided over, he was Prime Minister over her coronation and organized that. And she put his plaque and tried to, tried to make him a duke and put his plaque in Westminster Abbey. So, yeah, I don't, that's not.

[Hugh Hewitt]

And they tried to make Margaret Thatcher look like a middle class hick and that the royals treated her poorly. But in fact, I think you've said to me before, they never treated anyone poorly and they knew how to deal with everyone because they'd been doing it for hundreds of years.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

Yeah, that's right. They didn't. That's just not how that works. And you know, so that, that, about that thing, I don't, you know, I, I never liked that series. And I noticed, you know, I, I'm a trial to my wife.

[Hugh Hewitt]

I know that.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

But you know, if it's something odd about something I know a lot about and I don't like it, it's hard for me to be courteous. And so I complained of it and she decided not to watch it. And I felt bad about that and I said, well, you should watch it, I'll sit through it. She said, no, I'm not going to make you do that. But she did try to watch it when I was on the road when I was away and she turned against it too. Oh, she, you know, yeah, it gets, it's, it's pretty bad. And it's, you know, not the proper respect. Now here's the thing about Churchill to understand. Churchill was very courteous to women and he was, what would you call it? He was not Risque. He was not discourteous, except in the parliamentary way, to important people. He conducted himself with. Like if, if, if you were talking to Winston Churchill and he mentioned your wife, he would say, and you remember, you have presented your wife to me. So Churchill is very capable of being unpunctual and he's very capable of arguing with anybody. But if it's a person to be respected, he would argue with them with respect.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Can I add, though, about women, he is occasionally quite abrupt with his secretarial staff because he's got a war to run. Is that fair?

[Dr. Larry Arne]

Yeah. But they loved him. And there's this famous, you know, the last one, Jane Portal died lately, and I knew her and they, they all. And even before he became the greatest man in the world, they just adored him. And there's a story once that Elizabeth Layton, I think it was, he was in a hurry and he barked a little and she cried and he touched her hand and said, mind me, we're all toads under the Harrow. So, you know, there's another time, one of the, one of the ladies, he had a, you know, he. Churchill's house was kind of like a zoo. Pigs all over the place outside, birds inside. He had a budget rigger and he would let the budger out and he'd fly around the room when he was doing his dictation and in bed, he started his morning dictation in bed and had breakfast in bed. And this darn bird landed on the woman's thing and started picking at her hair clips and her hair started falling and she's trying to take dictation and she's messing with the thing. And he said, he looked at her and said, don't mess with it. You know, he was distracted. He didn't like that. The bird didn't distract him. She did.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Don't go anywhere except the Hillsdale Edu or Hugh for his. I'll be right back with Dr. Arn on the Hugh Hewitt Show. Welcome back, America. I'm Hugh Hewitt. The Hillsdale dialogue is underway. Hugh for hillsdale.com for all prior dialogues, we're talking about Winston Churchill's My Early Life. That's the book you ought to be reading. Let me move on to the Slow Boat to India. Before that, in fact, I want to mention at the same time, we're reading My Early Life. I'm listening to Masters and Commanders Andrew Roberts version of the relationship between FDR and Marshall and Churchill and Lord Allenbrooke. And an aside in that book is how Churchill and Marshall got Along Winston Churchill and George Marshall were very respectful of each other, even though FDR wasn't respectful of Marshall and Churchill wasn't respectful of Alanbrook. It's kind of an interesting, interesting deal.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

Well, that story is, you know, the Alan Brook. So I will tell you about Martin Gilbert's view of Alan Brooke. Arthur Bryan. Alan Brooke kept a diary. It was illegal to keep a diary. Some of the most important evidence we have is from people who illegally kept.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Many of them kept illegal diaries.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

Oh, yeah, they did. And. And so Arthur Bryant, historian, edited Alan Brooks diary. And Martin Gilbert always believed that he exaggerated the conflict. The conflict was there. I mean, first of all, they're fighting for their lives in a desperate war and they're working all the time and these are very strong people or they couldn't have won that war. So of course they argued, but. And then Alan Brooke had a big reason to be disappointed. Britain held out and they paid a heavier cost in percentage of their ability capacity to win the war. But then when. And. And on D Day and for at least six weeks after, there were more British and imperial soldiers on D Day than there were American. And. And Alan Brooke had been the first British officer from the beginning of the war, from Churchill's taking over and he didn't get the gig that Dwight Eisenhower got. And that was because of the potential of America, not because of what had been done so far.

[Hugh Hewitt]

That's a good reminder.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

And let me. So, yeah, things didn't work out as they might have for Ellen Brook or for Britain.

[Hugh Hewitt]

We'll come back to him because I think we may end up doing the six volumes on World War II just because our country is becoming illiterate about everything. I want to talk to you about the longboat to China and the advantages of long, slow travel. I just finished listening to Brideshead Revisited read by Jeremy Irons and there's a very long sea voyage in that. There's a longer sea voyage for Winston Churchill when he first goes to India. There are advantages to taking 23 days to get somewhere, are there not?

[Dr. Larry Arne]

Yeah, well, if you're. There's a photograph, you know. Is the Queen Mary still in Long Beach Harbor?

[Hugh Hewitt]

I don't think so, because. Oh, yes, it is. Yes, it is.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

In the stateroom where Churchill stayed. If you go in there, there's a photograph of him in that room and there are boxes everywhere, metal rectangular boxes, and he would take 20 boxes of work and some staff. This is later in his life when he was young, he would take books and paper and he would write on those things. And he was an immensely productive man all his life. And it accelerated until he was 80, 80 years old. And so, yeah, that the long voyages were thinking times and India. Churchill was born in India. You said China, but you're talking about him being.

[Hugh Hewitt]

I said India. Yeah, going to Bombay.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

And Churchill. Churchill was bored in India. It was fun. He loved to play polo. You know, if you were a British officer in India, you had a servant and, you know, it was a life of ease and it drove Churchill batty. And so he was relieved by three things. One was every chance he got, he went off and joined a fight somewhere. And, you know, he was in the southern half of India at Bangalore, but the fights were all up on the northern frontier. So he went up there twice. But that's one thing. Polo was another thing. And his polo team won. The All India polo team.

[Hugh Hewitt]

I have to pause right there.

[Podcast Narrator]

On the new episode of the Larry Arn Show, Hillsdale College President Larry P. Arn sits down with pastor, professor and author Kevin DeYoung for a one on one conversation. He saw that you might say reason and revelation coming together in the American founding and that they didn't have to be it and that there was this groundwork. And it's interesting you talk about in the Hillsdale founding documents because Witherspoon gives a famous sermon in May 1776, leading to the independence, and he says that very civil liberty and religious liberty have always stood or fallen together. Listen to this exclusive interview with Kevin DeYoung right now, only available on the Larry Arn Show. Find it on the Hillsdale College Podcast Network at podcast hillsdale.edu also at Apple Podcasts, Spotify and YouTube. And subscribe to receive new episodes delivered right to your device. That's Podcast Hillsdale. Eduardo. Hey there, it's Scott Bertram, host of the Radio Free Hillsdale Hour. Anniversaries play a key role in this week's episode. We start with Mark Moyer, William P. Harris, chair of Military history at Hillsdale College. We discuss the legacy and the lessons learned from the Vietnam War 50 years after the fall of Saigon. Meanwhile, the Great Gatsby turns 100 this year. Benedict Whelan from our English department joins us to discuss the themes in that book. And Julianne Hillock, founding principal at Pozo Academy in New Mexico, talks to us about the unique challenges of running a school in a remote part of the country, plus being honored by the Hillsdale College Alumni Association. All that this week on the Radio Free Hillsdale Hour. Find it at Podcast Hillsdale Edu or wherever you get your audio.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Welcome back, America. I'm Hugh Hewitt with Dr. Larry Arn, President of Hillsdale College. All things Hillsdalesdale. Edu. Just go check out the website or go to hugh4hillsdale.com you'll find lots of serious conversations with a lot of serious people. And now the quote here, he said, we attended the serious purposes in life. This was expressed in one word. Polo.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But and then the other thing was. Do you want to talk about this yet? No, he decided to learn.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Not yet. That's next week. I'll come back to it. Okay, okay, I'll come back to it. First, I want to talk about the life in India when he arrives in Bombay. So let's first talk about Colonel Brabazon, who doesn't go with him to India, but is in charge of the 4th Hussars. And when they. That's his first unit. And Churchill trains under this colonel. He's grown up with this colonel. This colonel is a friend of the family. And this colonel gives them. He can't say the word are. And so he gives him a farewell address. And Churchill says, that famous appendage of the British clown, India. And so the British clown. It's kind of a endearing quality that Churchill will remember people in his life as they are, not as perhaps they want to be remembered.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

Well, these are. Yeah. And you know, Rabizon and Redridge Buller. And there are four or five people who are very important commanders to Churchill, in part because he found them inspiring and in part because they let him do what he wanted to. And, you know, they're the offset against Lord Kitchener who, you know, Churchill had little bit friction with for most of his life. And, and, yeah, and so. And remember, this is Churchill. It's I work with, you know, 19 to 18 to 21 year olds. Right. So Churchill is by now 24. Right. And he's learning everything. Important thing he does, he's doing for the first time. And so meeting a guy like that, having an influence on his career, leading men, he's watching that for the first time. And it made an impression on him.

[Hugh Hewitt]

When he describes living in India, he says, every cavalry subaltern, again, Steelers fans, that means second lieutenant, gets a butler, a dressing boy and a groom, which, quote, formed the foundation of the cavalry subaltern's household. Princes could live no better than we. It's really an extraordinary life to be a colonial in India in the late 1800s. It's extraordinary.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

Yeah, it's interesting. It's always been interesting to me about that, that, you know, it. Why Churchill was impatient in India. He writes, it's in the book. I was sick of India, right? But a person could go out there and live a long life and have plenty and ease and authority and not necessarily that much work to do. India was, you know, for most of the British time was very pacific, right? It, it worked. There weren't that many British people there. India Indians ran India under ultimate British direction. And you know, the poverty there was such that an excellent living to an Indian, while a good living to an Indian was not costly at all to a poor subaltern. So yeah, that lie.

[Hugh Hewitt]

I had a question for you. Would word of his arrival have gone in advance? Because he's invited the ship docks in Bombay. He's invited by the Lord High Governor of whatever to come to dinner. And he has a wonderful dinner. And he says, on the whole, after 48 hours of intensive study, I formed a highly favorable opinion of India. Would they have known that Lord Randolph Churchill's son was coming? And even though Lord Randolph Churchill had gone on the outs, I don't know if he had died yet. I think he had died. But nevertheless, he was from a great family and his uncle was the Duke of Marlborough.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

Yeah, of course. But the other thing is though, that would be, you know, a name on a list of such people. You know, you have to remember that Winston Churchill didn't really become Winston Churchill until 1940. And so he was a connected guy, an important guy, had a little bit of a reputation of his own by now. And so he'd be on a list that would get invited. But on the other hand, he was not a soldier. But take Churchill had a very close friend in Parliament named Hugh Cecil who is one of the Salisbury's. And they are rich and they are, you know, really important. More important than the Duke of Marlborough. And so. So the point is, if he showed up, that'd be a different thing, right? And you got to remember about the aristocracy that it's that there are levels in it and there are levels of money too. Like I've been enjoying because I bought my cyber truck and because Elon Musk is helping to save the world right now. I've been enjoying learning about these tech gazillionaires who in my opinion have figured out a lot about the world that's really interesting and good. The guy named Andreessen, who can quote the Federalist paper Mark.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

And I'm gonna meet that guy. He doesn't know it, and I know it. And I'm gonna be like, Winston Churchill. I'm gonna go meet him. And these guys, you know, these guys are all, you know, they're gazillionaires, right? But they think that Elon Musk is really rich.

[Hugh Hewitt]

And, you know, so talking about wealth Churchill includes in this chapter because they got to buy polo horses and they're, they don't have any money, so they borrow money from the local Indian bankers. And Churchill writes direct quote, they only charged italics, 2%, period, italics, lowercase, a month, period. Now, he uses those italics, and he uses bad capitalization as a he knew it was to be written, not to be read, and he knew he wanted to. They only charged 2%, italics, period, a month, period. So he's giving a lesson there that it's hard to miss. It's funny, but I don't know if anyone's gonna get it. The book is great. My Early Life will continue for, I think, five more weeks on this. So go out and get it.

[Hillsdale College Announcer]

Read along with Hugh and Dr. Arne and enjoy Winston Churchill's My Early Life. On a deeper level, purchase your very own copy of My Early Life at the Hillsdale College Bookstore. Just visit Hillsdale. Edu Radio learn about the fascinating first 30 years in the life of one of the most provocative and compelling leaders of the 20th century, Winston Churchill in My Early Life. Hillsdale. Edu Radio. That's Hillsdale. Edu Radio to buy your copy of My Early Life.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Welcome back, America. Hillsdale dialogue underway, and they're all [e-mail] we're reading my Early Life by Winston Churchill. There's a lot to cover in it.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

Dr. Well, Churchill was, you know, financially embarrassed at various points in his life. Always a really good earner, but, you know, but see, his character is emerging here, by the way, because he is not fit to settle into a life of ease and authority. Yes, he's impatient. He's impatient with that, right? Here's a here's a story from the writing of the Churchill biography. There's a letter in the Churchill archive. We have published it. And it's from an Indian barber who's writing to the great man Winston Churchill decades later. And he writes, I can remember when I used to put the utah kalam water on your face. And so it falls to me to figure out what uticolum water might be. And it's one of my many failures because sometimes the most terrible thing was I would be given an assignment to find something, and I did sometimes find Remarkable things. But then Martin Gilbert would find it after I'd worked on it for a long time. So I never found eau de column water. Martin Gilbert had a realization. Eau de cologne. That's what that was.

[Hugh Hewitt]

All right, let me close this way. It's back on luck. Right. Let me counsel my younger readers to beware of dislocated shoulders, because he dislocates his shoulder upon arriving in India, and people can read about that. But he says at the Battle of Omdurman, he couldn't use his sword, so he had to use his Mauser pistol. Life is a whole and luck is a whole, and no part of them can be separated from the rest. That's on page 102 of my edition. It's the second time he's come round to luck, Dr. Orne. And he's right, because we've read.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

The.

[Hugh Hewitt]

River War with the audience, and he couldn't wield a sword because his shoulder would always pop out. So he. He used a pistol and he survived the last charge of the British cavalry.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

Yeah, well, he. He tells that in a charming way. He tells about that. Right. He says that if your reins are cut or your horse is bleeding or you stumble, everybody rushes up to kill you. But what was happening with Churchill was people would come up to him and he'd shoot him in the face. Yes. And sure enough, people stopped coming. And, you know, and so. That's right. It's just like he, you know, he. Churchill had a high threshold for pain. Right. He played a lot of polo. Great pain and with zeal and vigor, and didn't regret it. And so the point is that thing, you know, Aristotle writes, by the way, that the English expression is that fortune favors the bold. What Aristotle writes is people with a lot of purposes have more luck than people who have few. And so I think that's how Churchill regards it.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Well, this is a grand book. We will return to it next week and we'll be up and we're gonna get to the part that Dr. Arn likes when he goes up to Bangalore and starts to read. So do not miss this. This is a grand book. By the way, Dr. Ahren, thank you for saying we should come here for. I've never read this before. Go get my early life. We got five more weeks of my early life. Don't miss any of it. All Hillsdale dialoguesillsdale. Edu or Hugh for hillsdale dot com. Thank you, Adam. Thank you, Harley. Thank you, Dwayne. Talk to you on Monday on the next Hugh Hewitt Show.

[Podcast Narrator]

Thanks for listening to the Hillsdale Dialogues, part of the Hillsdale College Podcast Network. More episodes at Podcast Hillsdale. Edu or wherever you find your audio. For more information about Hillsdale College, head to Hillsdale.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

Eduardo.