Hillsdale Dialogues: Churchill’s The Second World War, Part Eight

Date: October 20, 2025
Hosts: Hugh Hewitt & Dr. Larry P. Arnn (President, Hillsdale College)
Book Discussed: The Gathering Storm (Volume 1 of Churchill’s WWII history—focus on Chapters 7-9)

Brief Overview

This episode explores Winston Churchill’s prophetic warnings about air power, democratic pacifism, and military unpreparedness in pre-WWII Britain, as well as the diplomatic, political, and technological context of the 1930s. Dr. Larry Arnn and Hugh Hewitt draw poignant parallels between Churchill’s era and today’s military and political realities, with keen insights on the nature of leadership, foresight, and the perils of appeasement.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Air Power and the Changing Face of Warfare

Timestamps: [00:30]-[04:23]

• Churchill’s Early Understanding: Churchill saw early on the revolutionary threat that aircraft posed to Britain’s security, especially as naval supremacy became negated by air power.

  • “What’s the worst technological threat ever invented to Britain? ... the military airplane, because Britain had its navy, and that was its key to its whole regime ... this all of a sudden shows up and negates that.” – Dr. Larry Arnn [01:40]

• Modern Parallels: Dr. Arnn links this to current threats from drones and hypersonic missiles, highlighting the vulnerability of modern aircraft carriers to small, inexpensive threats.

• Dual Nature of Air Power: While public concern focused on bombings of civilian populations, leadership failed to anticipate the vulnerability of naval assets.

2. The Weakness of Democratic Response & Rise of Tyranny

Timestamps: [04:23]-[14:41]

• Political Inertia & Pacifism: British leaders were slow and often reluctant to respond to German rearmament. The “passionate desire for peace” among the public made it perilous for any politician to advocate military buildup.

  • “It seemed to threaten with political extinction any party or politician who dared to take any other line ... much better to be turned out of office than to imperil the life of the nation.” – (Churchill, quoted by Hugh Hewitt) [10:29]

• Policy Failures: Democratic leaders like Baldwin and Attlee denied or minimized the threat, leading to delays in rearmament and emboldening Hitler.

• Comparison to Modern Era: Hewitt draws parallels: “We demanded ... a ‘peace dividend,’ and we disarmed. China got started. And so when you mention that, it's like reading the front pages today.” [10:29]

3. The Role and Shortcomings of British Leadership

Timestamps: [13:34]-[18:34]

• Stanley Baldwin: Despite his skill as a political operator and apparent good intentions, Baldwin consistently misread the German threat and prioritized pacifism.

  • “He was very artful ... a sublime political maneuver ... in some major sense, a good man ... but very lethal because he understood Churchill.” – Dr. Arnn [14:41]

• Suppressing Dissent & Churchill's Persistence: While sometimes suppressing information, Baldwin also involved Churchill in key scientific defense committees — preparatory steps for possible crisis.

• Personalities and Rivalries: Churchill's relationships with contemporaries like Eden, Chamberlain, Sam Hoare, and Baldwin shaped prewar politics, with moments of tension and eventual reconciliation.

4. The Italian Abyssinia Crisis: Parallels to Today

Timestamps: [19:38]-[23:59]

• Anthony Eden: Attractive and dynamic, Eden is discussed as a transitional figure who straddled appeaser and realist camps. Later, he would succeed Churchill but with less success.

• League of Nations’ Failures: The crisis over Italian ambitions in Abyssinia (Ethiopia) is compared to the incoherent Western response to today’s conflicts.

  • “If we oppose them, are we going to drive them into the hands of Hitler? Which is in the end, by the way, what happened.” – Dr. Arnn [21:52]

• Diplomatic Bumbling: Efforts to contain Italy through sanctions were half-hearted and ineffective – analogous to present-day diplomatic paralysis.

• French Diplomat Laval: Dismissed as ineffective and servile, serving as a warning about weak leadership.

5. Arms Limitations, German Rearmament & Demographics

Timestamps: [26:15]-[32:03]

• Naval Treaties Backfire: The Anglo-German Naval Agreement essentially allowed Germany to maximize its shipbuilding, including construction of super-battleships like the Bismarck.

  • “They thought ... Germany is agreeing they will never have more than one third the warships ... What they didn’t see is that this would ... permit Germany to build all the ships that had the capacity to build.” – Dr. Arnn [27:30]

• Demographics as Destiny: “Wars are fought by babies who are born 16 to 21 years before they begin … Demographics is everything in European war and no one is paying attention to the demographics except Churchill.” – Hugh Hewitt [28:29]

  • Germany’s growing population and military age cohort favored future aggression.

• German National Character & Suffering: Churchill believed Germans were “serious, brave, loyal, obedient ... at your throat or at your feet.” (Dr. Arnn [30:34])

6. Churchill’s Encounters and Warnings

Timestamps: [32:03]-[33:27]

• Ribbentrop’s Ultimatum: As ambassador, Ribbentrop threatened Churchill with “friendship or war.” Churchill refused to be intimidated.

  • “Do not underestimate the British people. We don’t look like much, but don’t underestimate ...” – Paraphrased by Hewitt [32:49]

• The Bulldog Anecdote: Allegedly, Churchill compared the British to a bulldog that “can breathe without letting go.” Dr. Arnn notes this colorful line is likely legendary but apt.

7. Silver Lining: Radar and Technological Preparation

Timestamps: [33:27]-[36:47]

• Radar’s Role: Despite many failings, Britain’s investment in radar gave it a crucial edge in the coming war. The Germans suspected Britain’s preparation but failed to confirm it.

  • “Churchill and the British got a lot done ... The Germans were a bit ahead ... but the British got it deployed.” – Dr. Arnn [34:26]

• Personal Connection: Dr. Arnn shares that his mother-in-law worked as a “plotter,” tracking planes via radar on big maps—a crucial job for the defense of Britain.

• Cultural Reference: The actor Rex Harrison (My Fair Lady) commanded one radar plotting installation during the war.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The military airplane ... negates [Britain's] navy. And nobody knows until the middle of the Second World War how well it negated it, but very well it turned out.” – Dr. Larry Arnn [01:55]
• “It is much better for parties or politicians to be turned out of office than to imperil the life of the nation.” – Churchill, quoted by Hugh Hewitt [10:29]
• “We're being governed by pygmies now in Britain and France.” – Dr. Larry Arnn [27:06]
• Churchill to Ribbentrop: “Do not underestimate the British people.” – Recounted by Hewitt [32:49]
• On radar and fate: “They didn’t do enough and they didn’t do it early enough. But they did a lot.” – Dr. Larry Arnn [34:36]

Important Segments (with Timestamps)

• [00:30]-[04:23]: The revolution of air power and Churchill’s foresight
• [10:29]-[12:05]: The paralyzing effect of pacifist sentiment on democratic politics
• [13:34]-[16:57]: Leadership deficiencies and the Baldwin-Churchill dynamic
• [19:38]-[23:56]: Diplomatic confusion over Italy and Abyssinia; lessons for today
• [26:15]-[28:29]: The dangers of arms agreements and German naval expansion
• [28:29]-[32:03]: Demographics and the German advantage leading up to WWII
• [33:27]-[36:47]: The radar advantage and personal stories of wartime preparation

Conclusion

This episode vividly demonstrates how the failures and choices of the 1930s shaped the course of world history, with striking lessons for modern military and political leaders. Dr. Arnn’s expertise and Hewitt’s probing questions bring Churchill’s warnings—and their relevance for today—into sharp relief, making this a must-listen for anyone interested in the intersection of history, strategy, and public leadership.