Hugh Hewitt (5:05)

The Austria that is the easy way into the fact that Hitler is a son of, according to Churchill, obscure Austrian customs official who dreamed of being a great artist. He was rejected from the Academy of Art in Vienna. He suffered physical privations and bred a harsh, though concealed resentment that the world had denied him success. And that by an honorable inversion, interesting phrase, he cherished all the more. An abnormal sense of racial loyalty and a fervent and mystic admiration for Germany and the German people. Four years with a Bavarian regiment on the Western Front will do that to you. Four years is a long time to be in the trenches, Dr. Arne.

Dr. Larry Arne (5:50)

Yeah, and he won the Bronze Star, Iron Cross, third class. And that's, you know, good medal. And he was gassed toward the end of the war and he was laid up in a hospital. And when he got out of the hospital, Germany had surrendered. When he went into the hospital, the German army was advancing in 1918. And they made their biggest advance in 1914 and 1918 at the very beginning and the very end of the war. And then the German army collapsed. I mean, much of it mutinied and they couldn't go anymore. Right. And that's because the cost of advancing under the war conditions at that time was incredibly high. And the toll it took on them was unbelievable. And the Germans have been very brave and very good fighters in all their wars. And so he, He, Hitler is. And Hitler found his happiness. The first time he was happy was in the army. He liked the army. And he had been a misfit, you know, for some. Some period of time before the First World War. Hitler was a street bum and he was a failed artist. And he had a very high opinion of himself. The word is he had a. You know, it. His father was somewhat absent and somewhat drunken. His mother was a doting mother. And he developed a very high opinion of himself. And so therefore, if I'm not getting ahead, it's because people are bad. Somebody did it. One of his brokers for his paintings, he, Hitler was. You can find, by the way, you can look at his paintings, they're not very good. You make a note, getting ready for this hue, that Hitler may have envied Churchill's ability to write. Yeah, I don't know whether he did it. I don't know whether he did or not, but if, if he knew anything about Churchill's paintings, he would have envied. Envied Churchill's ability to paint because Churchill was a good painter and Hitler was not very good. And one of his brokers, he would do touristy pictures of scenes in Berlin. And one of his brokers was a Jewish man, and Hitler thought that guy was ripping him off, that he never got the money, that these were deserved. And, you know, they're being sold on the street, you know, walking around town in Berlin tourist areas. But Hitler thought they were genius and. And then when he didn't get into art school, he thought, they've underestimated him.

Hugh Hewitt (8:39)

Well, church he did what the lonely and pent with him in himself, the little soldier pondered and speculated upon the possible causes of the catastrophe, the collapse that happened when he was in the hospital, running with the loss. He heard the stories of the exploiters of the Nordic world, the Jews. His patriotic anger fused with the envy of the rich and successful into one overpowering hate. And that hate is of the Jews. And I did not know that that comes out on page two of Mein Kampf until I read Churchill. Churchill is very clear eyed about Hitler. I found it interesting. He devoted an entire chapter to him, I guess assuming that people would not remember, people like me would not know or remember how this all came about. It's a, it's a testament to indifference to rising chaos.

Dr. Larry Arne (9:31)

Well, Hitler, Hitler, as I said, was, you know, part of a wider movement than the National Socialist Party, which was anti Semitic and socialist in nature and wanted to recover the glory of the Volk. That was, that was sort of a currency of parts of German politics, big parts.

Hugh Hewitt (9:55)

Pause Right there, Dr. Arnold. I'll be right back. America. Don't go anywhere except over to Hillsdale. Edu on this very dark week when we're talking about another dark time, the 30s. It's a very dark week in the United States and there's no better place to talk about what happened in the past and how people emerge from it stronger and better for it than talking about Churchill and in the 1930s with Dr. Larry Arne. Many of you know Charlie Kirk was a great admirer of Dr. Arne and a friend to Hillsdale as Hillsdale was indeed a friend to Charlie. We'll continue on with the Hillsdale Dialogue right after this. Don't go anywhere except to Hillsdale. Edu. I'm Hugh Hewitt. Stay tuned.

Mark Levin (10:39)

Hello America. I'm thrilled, thrilled to announce my new 10 part podcast series, Liberty and Learning with Mark Levin and Larry Arn.

Dr. Larry Arne (10:48)

Join.

Mark Levin (10:48)

Join me and my dear friend Dr. Larry Arne, President of Hillsdale College, as we dive deep into the founding principles of our great nation. In these challenging times, understanding our history and the ideals of self government is more crucial than ever. We'll explore the core of America's current crises, the changes in our government and what it means for our lives and liberties. From education to borders, citizenship to the separation of powers, we'll cover it all. Tune into Liberty and Learning with Mark Levin and Larry Arn of Hillsdale College. So subscribe now and join us on this wonderful journey to rediscover the principles that made America the freest, most prosperous nation in history. Don't miss it.

Scott Bertram (11:26)

Listen right now to Liberty and Learning with Mark Levin and Larry Arn at Podcast Hillsdale. Edu. That's Podcast Hillsdale Edu or wherever you find your audio. Hey there, it's Scott Bertram, host of the Radio Free Hillsdale Hour on this week's. In this week's episode, we talk with Max Primorak, senior research fellow at the Heritage Foundation. He was on campus for a CCA lecture. We'll discuss with him the history of US Foreign aid and how the Trump administration is charting a different path. And it's nearly the end of the summer, but still time to look out for those invasive species in your yard. Christopher Heckel from Hillsdale's biology department tells us what to look out for and what can be done about those invasive plants. All that this week on the radio Free Hillsdale Hour. Find it at podcast hillsdale. Edu or wherever you get your audio, including YouTube.

Hugh Hewitt (12:36)

Welcome back, America. I'm Hugh Hewitt. The Hillsdale dialogue rolls along even in this week of tragedy. And we are looking Dr. Larry Arn, President of Hillsdale College, and I back at the 1930s and what Winston Churchill wrote in his memoirs of those years about the rise of Hitler, the real fascist Hitler.

Dr. Larry Arne (12:55)

Two things. He came to power partly because he was very ruthless. And what I mean by that was in the beginning, he didn't have the force to kill a lot of people. He got that through getting control of the state. But he had built an army and had an alliance with a guy named Eric Rohm who had, who was the head of the Stormtrooper, the Brown Shirts, they were called, and they were an electoral force. Right. There were troops sort of organized, quasi military units campaigning and beating up Jews and also communists in the street. And some of the Communist Party had parallel forces. There's a lot of violence in the streets in the, you know, after 1927, 8, 9, there were five elections, if I remember the number correctly. And Hitler never won any of them, although he did get a plurality several times. And the one just before he got power, his plurality fell a bit over the one before. People were saying it peaked, but the army was important again. And a minister named von Papen, who Hitler had at least two meetings with Hindenburg. And Hindenburg was the president of the Weimar Republic of Germany. And he'd been the war hero of the First World War. He and Ludendorff were the most successful generals. And so and there's a very good biography of him written long ago called the Wooden Titan. There are people who think that Ludendorff and Falkenhorn were better generals than hidden Hindenburg. But Hindenburg was there and the big victories, especially on the against the Russians. And so he came out with a lot of glory. And he's an old school German general statesman now. And Hitler had a meeting with him where he was going to ask Hitler to become the chancellor of Germany. And remember, this guy 10 or 15 years before had been a street bum maybe 20 years before. I mean, his early rhetoric was polished around Fires in or you know, barrels. 50, 50 gallon barrels where hobos would be warming themselves and he'd be ranting at them about the oppressive classes that have undermined Germany and got us out here living in the cold. And now the next thing you know, he has a good, good war record and I hasten to say, not a great war record, but a good one. And he's trusted by the army and he gets gassed and he comes out and he starts building a party and he gets some support from the army. And that's the parallel, by the way, to this munitions building illegally counter. The counter to the Treaty of Versailles that Germany was embarked on before Hitler got any power. Yeah, Hitler, Hitler is. They. They launched a. A coup, pooch they call it.

Hugh Hewitt (16:22)

And it's got gearing in it. Hess, Rosenberg, Rome, who you mentioned and we'll come back to. And Ludendorff. I didn't know until I read the Gathering Storm that Ludendorff, this great general from World War I is part of the beer hall push, what is it, 1926, I think. And they throw Hitler in jail for four years and they let him out after 14 because you've got the Brown Shirts and he's got popular people behind him. But the whole country's a mess.

Dr. Larry Arne (16:49)

Oh yeah, it's a mess and it's getting worse. And, and he. When Ludendor, when Hindenburg first offered him the Chancellorship, he laid down a condition that Hindenburg rejected. The condition was there will be an Enabling act and a plebiscite to the people and it will permit me to suspend the constitution and do what needs doing and I won't take the job without that. And you have to support that. And the first time Hindenburg turned him down. And remember, Hitler is surrounded by people. His movement is full of people who turn out to be very violent people. And he was a violent person. He killed many of the. He killed Eric Rom, for example. And then there are contestants he has on the left and the right that are also violent. And so he goes back disappointed. And both Alan Bullock and if I remember correctly, Ian Kershaw say that he had an amazing nerve to do that. And then they have another election or two and then he's asked back and this time he makes one compromise. He says the plebiscite, the measure that's placed before the whole German public, will not touch the powers of the president. And Hindenburg was very foolish to think that that was valuable, but he accepted it and he made him Chancellor and the army and Papen and Others thought, if we bring him inside, we can control it. And, you know, for a long time, there are a lot of forces around Hitler that restrict, you know, he can't just do whatever he wants. He does get a law passed by the German people that we can suspend the constitution and we can do what we want, but that's not the same thing as doing it.

Hugh Hewitt (18:53)

And we should mention, one of the reasons the German people are torn apart is that the mark has been destroyed by the Weimar Republic. This weak, bad constitution and the reparation scheme with America and the loan, it had destroyed the middle class. There was no middle class left in Germany. There were aristocrats and there were bums, and nobody was much happy with anything. So that when the beer hall push occurs and Hitler goes away, he's in jail just long enough to write Mein Kampf. Now, I've never read Mein Kampf. Have you?

Dr. Larry Arne (19:32)

Yeah.

Hugh Hewitt (19:34)

I've never had. Because Churchill says the new Koran of faith and war. Turgid, verbose, shapeless, but pregnant with its message. Man is a fighting machine. The Jewish race, owing to its universality, is of necessity pacifist and internationalist. Only brute force can ensure the survival of the race. The race must fight a race that rests, must rust and perish. That's like third grade level writing. That's why I thought in my notes to you, he must have envied Churchill the ability to write. Yes, the ability to paint, but that's just not very good.

Dr. Larry Arne (20:13)

Well, Hitler was. He was three things. He was not very good. He was very good and he was very wicked, all those things, because there were some things he was really good at and. And, you know, he wouldn't have emerged from all that. It wasn't just chance. It was partly chance, but. And you know, every great career is full of things like that, the chance parts. But he, you know, had force and he was very relentless.

Hugh Hewitt (20:43)

Relentless was what defined Churchill. It's also what defined Dr. Arns and my friend Charlie Kirk. Relentless. They both achieved greatness in their own ways. Charlie cut down way too young. I'll be right back with Dr. Orn to continue our conversation about Winston Churchill on this week's Hillsdale Dialogue. Stay tuned. Welcome back, America. I'm Hugh Hewitt. The Hillsdale Dialogue is underway with Dr. Larry Arne. We're continuing our working through the Hillsdale Dialogues. We're not going to stop. We're not going to pause. Charlie Kirk was a great fan of the Hillsdale Dialogues. We talked about them often and he learned a lot from them. Because Dr. Arne and his colleagues at Hillsdale have a lot to teach everyone. Right now. We're learning about the interwar period and especially one person, the Field Marshal von Hindenburg. He had some people. We'll come back to Rome, but I want to talk for a moment about Hindenburg. When I was reading the Gathering Storm, I thought of Hindenburg as sort of like Biden in the last year of his presidency. President Biden, lumbering slow, with a deep attachment to the memory of fdr. Hindenburg has a deep attachment to the Kaiser who's exiled in where? The Netherlands? Someplace like that. And he doesn't, he doesn't really like Hitler. But there's this guy, General Kurt von Schleecker, that's a new name to me, who intrigued with Rohm, who was working with Hitler. He would be shot on the same night that Rohm was shot, the night of long nights. We'll come to that. Churchill Riley observes, both he and Rohm were shot at Hitler's order three years later. They certainly simplified the political situation and also that of survivors. But anyway, meanwhile, the economic blizzard smote Germany. In her turn, Hitler joins forces with business elites against the Communists. And the Catholic centrist Bruning did not get the help he needed from the Allies. And again, I'm thinking about post Russia, post Soviet Union Russia, when we had a drunk Yeltsin followed by a KGB colonel, we weren't really paying attention to a country that was disorganized. And when you're disorganized, the ruthless rise.

Dr. Larry Arne (22:58)

Yeah, it, you know, we, we, you know, great statesmen are rare. And one element of that is knowing something about the past. And that will help you estimate nations and their ways. And, you know, I think that we, and you know, we can be forgiven, right? We did. Because you got to remember, we've made a lot of mistakes, in my opinion, and very expensive mistakes that we can't afford. And we're weaker because of those mistakes. But it's also true that we didn't set out to dominate Iran, Iraq. We set out to help it be free. And that's better, right? And so it wasn't wickedness on the scale that we're talking about now. And, and you know, Germany made some terrible mistakes, and they, those mistakes had some moral wickedness in them even in the First World War. And so we're, we're studying the repercussions of all that. And that opened the way for some guy like Adolf Hitler to rise, and then darned if he didn't. And then we, you know, we did and see what was our, what was the Western wickedness in the, in the 1930s. If they had done some timely things, they could have stopped the Second World War, Churchill argues. And remember, when you're writing about history, you don't know what would have happened if something had not happened, because the something did not happen. But Churchill's argument, and this is a contemporaneous argument, that is, he's arguing it consistently from 1931 onward, if we get strength and take the steps to deter Germany and also redress, you know, you wanted to welcome Germany into the nations. And I have friends who know more about it than I do who follow the history of our relations with Russia after the fall of the Soviet Union and think that we made some mistakes like that, that we should have been more generous with them. But we can forgive ourselves for that, I think, in part because, God help us, they had threatened us for, well, for 45 years.

Hugh Hewitt (25:28)

And the idea that they were in chaos was not unpleasant, given that they were opening up, the dissidents were leaving, people could emigrate. The KGB files were open for a while. There was an appearance of progress that was quickly smashed and divided very, very quickly. As it turns out, you look backwards now. The spring of the Russian calendar, political calendar, did not last very long at all. Yeltsin gave way to Putin. Putin has never really left power since then. All things Hillsdale are found at hillsdale.edu. don't go anywhere. I'll come back with Dr. R and we'll continue our conversation. All things Hilltail at hilltail. Edu. All of our prior conversations about Winston Churchill and his World War II memoirs are found@hughforhillsdale.com Stay tuned.

Scott Bertram (26:24)

Hey there, it's Scott Bertram, host of the Radio Free Hillsdale Hour. On this week's episode, we talk with Max Primorak, senior research fellow at the Heritage Foundation. He was on campus for a CCA lecture. One discuss with him the history of US Foreign aid and how the Trump administration is charting a different path. And it's nearly the end of the summer, but still time to look out for those invasive species in your yard. Christopher Heckel from Hillsdale's biology department tells us what to look out for and what can be done about those invasive plants. All that this week on the Radio Free Hillsdale Hour. Find it@podcast hillsdale.edu edu or wherever you get your audio, including YouTube. This show is a part of the Hillsdale College Podcast Network. If you like what you hear, please subscribe to your favorite. You'll get brand new episodes of all your favorite shows sent right to your device. And you'll help us know that you're out there listening. Never miss another episode by going to podcast Hillsdale. Edu Subscribe. That's Podcast Hillsdale. Edu subscribe or click the Follow or subscribe button on Apple podcasts, Spotify or YouTube.

Hugh Hewitt (27:58)

Welcome back, America. I'm Hugh Hewitt. I don't often DO counterfactuals with Dr. Larry Arn on the Hillsdale Dialogue all things hillsdalesdale. Edu. But today I'm going to on the counterfactual the stuff history. We get to know what happened. We don't get to know what would have happened. I was thinking about Trump ordering Operation Midnight Hammer and smoting IRAN and in 12 days, Israel. And then with the United States delivering the coup de grace, they stopped Iran in the way that Churchill often says the allies ought to have stopped Germany between 25 and 35. And we just. The allies didn't do it. We did it. I don't know that Trump gets any credit for doing it, but he did it.

Dr. Larry Arne (28:47)

Yeah. And you know, of course we don't. I agree that what he did was a good thing and important. We won't know for years if it was decisive. You know, where does Iranian power come from? They have some scientists, they have a very strong class of mullahs running the place and they have adherents and they have the support of Russia and China and so they can build back up and it cost Russia. And, you know, Russia and China both make money while they help them. They're sort of rather better at that than we are. And so they will probably build back up. And so that means we haven't settled those questions yet. And who knows if they'll ever get settled. So we won't really fully know. Right. For a time. But I agree that it was a good thing to do and made the situation more favorable.

Hugh Hewitt (29:40)

And one thing Trump keeps saying is something that Churchill said at the end of this chapter. So ended when he's talking about Bruning falling. So ended the last government in post war Germany, which might have led the German people into the enjoyment of a stable, civilized constitution and opened peaceful channels of intercourse with their neighbors. I don't want to put words in Donald Trump's mouth, but it seems to me that's all he ever wants from anyone. Let's get the peaceful channels of intercourse with our neighbors going.

Dr. Larry Arne (30:14)

Yeah, and you take care of your country and we'll take care of ours. And we, you know, and we can both live great lives and, and that, you know, I. I can tell you that Churchill's record, that's what he was for all his life. And he thought, you know, because, you know, another thing is if you know a lot about war is Churchill did, you know, if you fight Germany, it's going to be very costly, or China or Russia, those are very powerful nations. And there'll be a lot of psyching. Dr. Strangelove. We'll get our hair must.

Hugh Hewitt (31:10)

If Anyone hasn't seen Dr. Strangelove, I think that's George C. Scott saying that, isn't it? Tops? 10, 20 million, tops.

Dr. Larry Arne (31:20)

Yeah, yeah.

Hugh Hewitt (31:21)

Depending on which way the wind blows.

Dr. Larry Arne (31:24)

Yeah. George C. Scott is better in Patton, but He's wonderful in Dr. Strangelove.

Hugh Hewitt (31:30)

I want to finish this hour by saying Churchill was very concerned with the world his entire life. From the time he goes off to India, through the Afghanistan adventures, through Africa, Cuba, back into Parliament. He's always concerned with the world. Your young men and women at Hillsdale, are they. Are they interested in the world?

Dr. Larry Arne (31:53)

Yeah, in the right way? You know, some of them are. You know, there's always several who want to, you know, do foreign policy and travel the world. But to be interested in the world, especially if you're 18 years old, but at any age, you need to figure it out. You need to figure out how it works. You need to figure out what the big things are. Right. Like, before you can go and figure out, you know, how you're going to work to influence the world, you should first learn what it is and you know it. At this breakfast this morning, you know, it turns out I know quite a bit about Winston Churchill, and I knew more than the others there at. In the British Embassy, including His Majesty's ambassador. Yeah. Well, he's very. I liked him. Right.

Hugh Hewitt (32:46)

He's kind of what he deft.

Dr. Larry Arne (32:50)

But, you know, it's like I surprised him. He. He has a phrase that I had not heard before, but he says that he and Tony Blair, who was a very effective prime minister, and he was very close to him and helped make his regime and his success. He said they were municipalists, and Churchill was always trying to decentralize the government, except for the national things, which are mostly national defense. And so he said. He said that with surprise. Was he a municipalist? I said, oh, yeah, all his life. And he wanted the House of Commons to be this debating society where the laws are made instead of a bureaucracy where the laws are really made. And the House of Commons you know, debates, you know, refuse collection and Birmingham one week and, you know, water supply and Scotland the next. And nobody can be an expert on all those things. And those things don't need to be run from a central place. And, you know, people always say, yeah, but only the federal government has the resources. And I always reply to that, yeah, sure, should they? Because the federal government did. Yeah, the federal government didn't make them, didn't make the resources that's made among the people. Right. Why do they have to be there? And it's not a good place to put them.

Hugh Hewitt (34:22)

Find a new place to put them. Indeed, put some of your resources into Hillsdale. Edu and all the prior Hillsdale dialogue collected @hugh for hillsdale.com welcome back, America. I'm Hugh Hewitt. Sorry for the voice back and forth across the country doesn't make it so good. Dr. Arne, president of Hillsdale College, and I are talking about red states, blue states. This is far afield. But we have two minutes left. The counterargument to that, of course, is California.

Dr. Larry Arne (34:48)

Yeah. Yeah. Well, but if California was left to its own devices, it probably wouldn't be what it is, you know, because it gets, you know, it's, there's, the federal government has, you know, over 60% of the resources that are in government, up from, you know, 24% for most of American history. And so a lot of money goes back there in Washington and gets doled back out to places like California with strings attached. And when it goes to California or Michigan or any state, it looks like free money, you know, and of course, we'll take the money. We don't have to tax our people to get it. You already did that and then. Or borrowed it. Right. Which is about a third of it now. And so it, it, you know, it's a prenatal system because things need to be run, you know, I mean, we just, Hillsdale College just got the highest possible rating given by Forbes for our balance sheet. There are 22 other colleges at that high rating, highest rating. And, and I think we even got a perfect score. I confess I don't pay much attention to it, but I get asked by the college paper and others, how do we do that? And now we say, well, at this time, I gave him a quote from, from Dr. Johnson. It concentrates the mind wonderfully if you know you're going to be hanged in two weeks.

Hugh Hewitt (36:24)

Yep.

Dr. Larry Arne (36:25)

So we take care of our money because it's all we got. Right. And we, it would be a bad.

Hugh Hewitt (36:31)

Thing to run out of it bankruptcy happens very slowly and then all at once. So well done on that. On that note, we will come back next week and talk about the locust years, 1931 and 1935. Don't miss it. In the meantime, all things hillsdale@hillsdale.edu all things hillsdale generally@hillsdale.edu and the dialogues you for hillsdale.com including the previous four of what is now five part series, part six next week. And I want to close this week by just a salute to my friend and colleague, Charlie Kirk. He had thousands of friends. I wasn't a close friend. I've been his colleague for a number of years. And Charlie and I would text and talk. I just want to say to his family, to his friends, to those who are close with him, everybody's heart is broken. They know he was genuinely a man of great joy, of great faith, a great witness for Christ, a great witness for freedom and for liberty. And I think he will join me in prayers for his wife, Erica and their two toddlers and keep him in your thoughts and your prayers as you go about your weekend and at your church. Thank God we live in the United States of America and this is not a routine thing. It's such a horrible thing. It's so tragic because it is so rare. And Charlie Kirk would be, I believe, the first person to tell you, keep working for freedom, keep working for Christ. I'm Hugh Hewitt. Thank you, Adam, Harley and Duane. I'll talk to you on Monday, which is a new week and a new beginning right here on the next Hugh Hewitt Show.

Scott Bertram (38:05)

Thanks for listening to the Hillsdale Dialogues, part of the Hillsdale College Podcast Network. More episodes at Podcast Hillsdale Eduardo, or wherever you find your audio. For more information about Hillsdale College, head to Hillsdale Eduardo.