Hillsdale Dialogues: Churchill’s The Second World War, Part Five
Hosts: Hugh Hewitt, Dr. Larry P. Arnn (President, Hillsdale College)
Date: September 15, 2025
Episode Overview
In this episode, Hugh Hewitt and Dr. Larry Arnn continue their exploration of Winston Churchill’s "The Second World War," focusing on the rise of Adolf Hitler as detailed in Churchill’s first volume, "The Gathering Storm." They examine Hitler’s personal trajectory, the collapse of the Weimar Republic, the interplay of German politics and economics, and Churchill’s unique analysis of these fateful years. Throughout, the conversation draws lessons for both the historical moment and contemporary parallels.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Churchill’s Chapter on Hitler — A Biographical Pause
- The episode’s central theme is Churchill’s deep dive into Hitler’s background, motives, and how he rose from obscurity to power.
- Churchill’s focus: Despite often being cursory in the early years, Churchill devotes an entire chapter simply titled "Hitler" to examine the man’s origins and psychology.
- Hewitt’s reflection: Hugh admits he’s never read a biography of Hitler or "Mein Kampf," attributing this to a “caution” ingrained in Catholic education and general disinterest in such evil men.
“All I know is the wreckage that Stalin and Lenin and Hitler and Mao left.” (01:25, Hewitt)
2. Biographies of Hitler: Bullock vs. Kershaw
- Dr. Arnn has read two key Hitler biographies:
- Alan Bullock’s Hitler: A Study in Tyranny (noted for insight on Hitler’s retreat from public speeches after 1943).
- Ian Kershaw’s three-volume biography (praised for its comprehensive context and detail).
- Kershaw’s Context: Shows that Hitler’s rise was enabled by a climate of Weimar extremism, German national humiliation, and pride seeking restoration.
“There were a lot of things going on like what Hitler was doing in Germany... The Weimar Republic was failing, it didn't work. The Germans were smarting from their defeat...” (03:33, Arnn)
3. Hitler’s Early Life and the German Psyche
- Churchill (as quoted by Hewitt) underscores Hitler’s humble origins, failed ambition at art, and the cultivation of deep resentment and racial loyalty:
“A son of... an obscure Austrian customs official who dreamed of being a great artist…suffered physical privations and bred a harsh, though concealed resentment that the world had denied him success...” (05:13, Hewitt, quoting Churchill)
- Arnn: Hitler was happiest in the army during WWI; before that, he was a misfit and failed artist with an aggrieved sense that others (often Jews) impeded his greatness.
4. The Beer Hall Putsch and Hitler’s Imprisonment
- Hitler’s failed coup (the Beer Hall Putsch) involved notable figures like Göring, Hess, Rome, and unexpectedly, World War I General Ludendorff.
- Hitler served a relatively brief jail sentence, during which he wrote Mein Kampf.
“They throw Hitler in jail for four years and they let him out after 14 because you’ve got the Brown Shirts and he’s got popular people behind him. But the whole country’s a mess.” (16:30, Hewitt)
5. The Collapse of Weimar and Hitler’s Political Strategy
- The Weimar Republic was beset by hyperinflation, reparation burdens, and social destruction, leading to the death of the middle class and rampant social unrest—fertile ground for both communism and National Socialism.
- Hitler’s initial refusal of the Chancellorship pending full constitutional powers (Enabling Act) is highlighted as an early power play.
- Arnn: Hitler required suspension of the constitution, turning down Chancellorship until given dictatorial powers; Hindenburg ultimately acquiesced under political pressure.
“He laid down a condition that Hindenburg rejected...the measure... will permit me to suspend the constitution and do what needs doing and I won't take the job without that.” (16:49, Arnn)
6. Mein Kampf: Nature and Messaging
- Churchill described Mein Kampf as:
“...the new Koran of faith and war. Turgid, verbose, shapeless, but pregnant with its message. Man is a fighting machine...” (19:34, Hewitt, quoting Churchill)
- Both hosts agree on the poor literary quality and dangerous clarity of Hitler’s intentions.
7. The Ruthlessness of Hitler and Street Politics
- Hitler’s alliances (Röhm and the SA/Brownshirts) brought street violence to politics; campaign and street fighting were common against leftists and Jews.
- The political landscape was fragmented and violent, making “ruthless” actors like Hitler powerful.
8. The Dangerous Path of “Good Intentions”
- Churchill’s counterfactual argument: timely and firm Western deterrence and engagement with Germany might have averted WWII.
- Arnn: Churchill always believed in “welcome Germany into the nations” and deterring evil simultaneously. The hosts discuss parallels with missteps in post-Soviet Russia.
9. Lessons for Modern Statecraft
- The dangers of economic and political chaos creating openings for radical leaders.
- The risks of centralization and the wisdom of subsidiarity (localism); Churchill was a “municipalist” aiming for local rather than centralized control, except for national defense.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
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On Hitler’s psychological makeup:
“If I’m not getting ahead, it’s because people are bad. Somebody did it.” — Dr. Larry Arnn (07:12)
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On Mein Kampf:
“That’s like third grade level writing. That’s why I thought in my notes to you, he must have envied Churchill the ability to write.” — Hugh Hewitt (19:34)
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On the importance and cost of deterrence:
“Churchill’s argument...from 1931 onward: if we get strength and take the steps to deter Germany and also redress...You wanted to welcome Germany into the nations.” — Dr. Larry Arnn (24:10)
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On war and statesmanship:
“If you fight Germany, it’s going to be very costly, or China or Russia, those are very powerful nations. And there’ll be a lot of psyching. Dr. Strangelove. We’ll get our hair must.” — Dr. Larry Arnn (30:14)
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Churchill’s persistent world-consciousness:
“Churchill was very concerned with the world his entire life. From the time he goes off to India...he’s always concerned with the world.” — Hugh Hewitt (31:30)
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On decentralization vs. bureaucracy:
“Churchill was always trying to decentralize the government, except for the national things, which are mostly national defense...He wanted the House of Commons to be this debating society where the laws are made instead of a bureaucracy.” — Dr. Larry Arnn (33:20)
Timestamps for Key Segments
- Opening and overview — 00:31
- Biographies of Hitler, Hitler’s early life — 01:47–08:39
- Churchill’s analysis of Hitler’s anti-Semitism — 08:39–09:55
- Hitler’s rise, violence in Weimar streets, Beer Hall Putsch, and politics — 12:55–18:53
- Collapse of the Weimar Republic, economic chaos — 18:53–19:40
- Mein Kampf and Hitler’s messaging — 19:40–20:43
- Parallels to modern history and statecraft, post-Soviet Russia, deterrence — 22:58–25:28
- Counterfactuals and Trump doctrine — 27:58–30:14
- Decentralization, local government, Churchill’s views — 31:30–34:22
The Episode’s Tone
The dialogue is measured, probing, and scholarly, but maintains a conversational warmth. Both hosts show respect for Churchill’s insights and gravity in discussing the catastrophic consequences when democracies fail to guard against extremism. Occasional humor, historical asides, and film references (including Dr. Strangelove) add texture, and the tone is ultimately one of serious reflection, with an aim to connect the past’s lessons to present-day concerns.
Final Thoughts
- The episode offers a clear-eyed look at how economic failure, weak institutions, and unchecked ambition can produce catastrophe.
- Churchill’s “The Gathering Storm” is praised for its prescience and warning, which Hugh and Dr. Arnn see as valuable for today.
- The show closes with a tribute to recently passed colleague Charlie Kirk, connecting the themes of vigilance, leadership, and the rare gift of freedom and stability.
For more, see the entire series—each installment a deepening journey through Churchill’s magisterial history, with insights timely for every generation.