Hillsdale Dialogues: Churchill’s The Second World War, Part Four
Podcast Date: September 8, 2025
Host: Hugh Hewitt
Guest: Dr. Larry P. Arnn, President of Hillsdale College
Main Text: Winston Churchill, The Gathering Storm (vol. 1 of Churchill’s WWII memoirs)
Focus: Chapter 4, “Lurking Dangers” and themes from the interwar years
Episode Overview
In this fourth installment on Churchill’s The Second World War, Dr. Larry Arnn and Hugh Hewitt examine the key themes and warnings in “The Gathering Storm,” with special focus on technology’s impact on warfare, Churchill’s insights about Germany after World War I, the role of the League of Nations, and the roots and persistence of anti-Semitism in early-20th-century Europe. The discussion weaves Churchill’s analysis with contemporary geopolitical parallels, rich philosophical digressions, and memorable anecdotes from college life at Hillsdale.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Opening Reflections and Capstone Lectures at Hillsdale
[01:15–05:52]
- Dr. Arnn speaks about the joy and energy of the new academic year at Hillsdale, contrasting the experience of speaking to new freshmen and seasoned seniors.
- The value of the capstone lectures: a reflection on integrating accumulated knowledge and considering life’s ultimate aims.
- Anecdote: Arnn playfully challenges students to define "physics," sparking Socratic discussion and laughter.
- "What is physics? [...] That's the hardest question. So I asked them what physics is." (01:53, Larry Arnn)
- The art of asking "what is it?"—a Socratic method—exemplifies Hillsdale's approach to a liberal education.
2. Theological Reflection: Defining by Negation
[05:52–09:16]
- Hugh Hewitt references Bishop Robert Barron’s concept of “negative theology”—defining by stating what something is not.
- Dr. Arnn connects Aristotle’s definition of God as the “unmoved mover” and references C.S. Lewis’ affection for the medieval cosmological model in The Discarded Image.
- “There’s a wonderful thing in C.S. Lewis where he describes...the ancient and the medieval world there was a model. And this model...it’s God and the prime movers.” (07:38, Larry Arnn)
3. Churchill on the Dangers of Modern War
[12:17–15:37]
- Turning to Chapter 4, “Lurking Dangers,” the hosts examine Churchill’s warning about war as “the potential destroyer of the human race” in the 20th century.
- Arnn traces Churchill’s fears back to the Battle of Omdurman (1898), where technological superiority (machine guns) caused disproportionate devastation.
- “Churchill draws out what he thinks is a moral problem with technological warfare, which is that warfare has always required courage, a virtue. But if it's just technical, how much does it require?” (14:20, Larry Arnn)
4. The Dawn of Atomic Warfare
[15:37–17:31]
- Churchill predicted weapons of mass destruction as early as 1925.
- The UK and US cooperation on the atomic bomb grew out of both European scientific advances and Einstein’s warning to Roosevelt.
- “Einstein said they're working on something and it could be devastating and you need to know about it, you need to do something about it.” (16:42, Larry Arnn)
5. Churchill’s Postwar Generosity Toward Germany
[17:31–19:59]
- Churchill advocated for “the redress of the vanquished” prior to demanding further disarmament from the victors.
- Arnn recounts Churchill’s consistent efforts for generous peace, from the Boer War to World War I’s aftermath—efforts that largely failed due to deep-seated hatred and trauma.
- “He thought it would be better if everybody would get along. And so he was always trying to lay the ground for peace.” (18:19, Larry Arnn)
6. Re-arming Germany and the Failure of Disarmament
[21:59–25:51]
- Discussion of German clandestine rearmament under General von Seeckt, circumventing the Treaty of Versailles.
- “They were building training grounds and weapons, including aviation, which was military. Aviation was forbidden to them.” (22:07, Larry Arnn)
- The complex web of interwar alliances: Soviet help in German rearming, and the fluid, self-serving nature of international relations.
- Parallels drawn to current world affairs, with mention of Chinese military parades and India’s geopolitical balancing act.
7. The India-China-Russia Dynamic and Lessons for Today
[24:20–30:09]
- Arnn elaborates on India’s critical strategic position today: populous, democratic, and a swing state in the global balance.
- “I think India is terribly important because of two things. They're very populous and they elect their government. And they're growing, they're young, they're having babies.” (24:29, Larry Arnn)
- The dangers of “rose-colored glasses” in diplomacy; Churchill admits to hopeful illusions post-WWI.
- “It is a temptation for everyone...to put on rose colored glasses.” (30:49, Hugh Hewitt)
8. Anti-Semitism in Interwar Germany
[32:27–35:30]
- Discussion of the assassination of Walther Rathenau, prominent German Jew and statesman, by right-wing extremists.
- Churchill’s and Arnn’s analysis: anti-Semitism’s integral role in Nazi ideology; the resilience and achievements of the Jewish people as both a source of admiration and irrational animosity.
- “Hitler was a great believer in the Volk, the folk right and the German folk and the Aryans right and our nation. He was a National Socialist...here's a transnational people, here's the people who were defeated in the ancient world, and yet they have persisted as a singular and distinct people.” (33:21, Larry Arnn)
9. The Foundations of Western Civilization
[35:30–37:06]
- Reflection on Churchill’s and Leo Strauss’ vision of Western civilization as the confluence of Greek philosophy and Jewish monotheism.
- “One is universal philosophy born in Athens, and one is universal monotheism born in Jerusalem…” (35:30, Larry Arnn)
- Discussion of Churchill’s admiration for Jewish resilience and intellectual argumentation.
10. Closing and Preview of Next Episode
[37:06–38:42]
- The episode wraps up with a look ahead: the next discussion will cover Churchill’s chapter on Hitler in The Gathering Storm.
- Hugh Hewitt encourages listeners to read along and revisit previous episodes for deeper understanding.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- "What is physics? [...] That's the hardest question. So I asked them what physics is." (01:53, Larry Arnn)
- “There’s a wonderful thing in C.S. Lewis...I confess that I love the model.” (07:38, Larry Arnn, on cosmology)
- “Churchill draws out what he thinks is a moral problem with technological warfare, which is that warfare has always required courage, a virtue. But if it's just technical, how much does it require?” (14:20, Larry Arnn)
- “I coined the maxim the redress of the vanquished should precede the disarmament of the victors.” (17:31, quoting Churchill)
- “It is a temptation for everyone...to put on rose colored glasses.” (30:49, Hugh Hewitt)
- “One is universal philosophy born in Athens, and one is universal monotheism born in Jerusalem…” (35:30, Larry Arnn)
- “Wherever there are three Jews, there are two prime ministers and one leader of the opposition.” (Paraphrasing Churchill, 36:40, Larry Arnn)
Important Timestamps
- 01:15 – Larry Arnn on college life and teaching capstones
- 05:52 – Negative theology and defining God
- 12:17 – The evolving threat of war in the 20th century
- 15:37 – Churchill's prophecy of WMDs and the origin of the atomic bomb program
- 17:31 – Churchill's maxim about treating the vanquished
- 21:59 – German rearmament and alliances with the Soviet Union
- 24:20 – Relevance of India in current global affairs
- 30:09 – The peril of diplomatic naïveté after WWI
- 32:27 – Anti-Semitism’s roots and resilience of Jewish people
- 35:30 – The West as Athens plus Jerusalem
Tone & Style
The episode blends high seriousness and intellectual depth with lively anecdotes and humor, from college competitions involving a “cyber truck prize” to thoughtful asides about ancient philosophy and current geopolitics. Dr. Arnn’s erudition and Hugh Hewitt’s probing questions create an engaging, accessible window into both Churchill’s world and contemporary relevance.
Suggested Next Listen
Next week: The deep dive continues with Churchill’s chapter on Adolf Hitler.
Catch up: Access previous episodes at HughForHillsdale.com and all things Hillsdale at hillsdale.edu.