Hillsdale Dialogues
Episode: Churchill’s The Second World War, Part Seven
Date: September 29, 2025
Host: Hugh Hewitt
Guest: Dr. Larry P. Arnn, President, Hillsdale College
Topic: Churchill’s The Gathering Storm – Chapter entitled “The Darkening Scene, 1934”

Episode Overview

In this episode, Hugh Hewitt and Dr. Larry Arnn continue their in-depth discussion of Winston Churchill’s The Gathering Storm, the first volume of Churchill’s multi-part history of World War II. This installment explores the turbulent events of 1934—marked by Hitler’s aggressive ambitions, the shifting allegiances of Mussolini's Italy, the growing threat of aerial warfare, the vulnerabilities of Britain and France, and what these lessons portend for contemporary international politics. As always, Dr. Arnn brings Churchill’s incisive writing into conversation with both historical facts and present-day analogies.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Hitler’s Unsubtle Ambitions & Early Aggression

Timestamps: [00:32]–[03:13]

• Churchill’s Foresight: The episode opens with Churchill’s warning that Hitler was never secretive about his plans; Mein Kampf plainly states the aim of uniting German Austria with the Reich.

  • Quote: “Hitler is being as unsubtle as possible and Great Britain has got its head in the sand.” — Hugh Hewitt [00:59]

• The Anschluss & Czechoslovakia: Dr. Arnn details the Nazi-engineered union with Austria—agitation, assassination, and a staged vote brought Austria into Hitler’s fold, thereby flanking Czechoslovakia.

2. Mussolini’s Italy: From Suspicion to Complicity

Timestamps: [02:35]–[08:19]

• Mussolini’s Early Reluctance: At first suspicious of Hitler and closer to Austria and Hungary, Mussolini ultimately aligned with Hitler due to weakness and geopolitical calculation.

  • Quote: “In the end Mussolini was weak… Hitler was just bolder and stronger.” — Dr. Larry Arnn [03:13]

• Italy’s Imperial Ambitions: Mussolini aspired to recreate a Roman-style empire, leading to adventures in Abyssinia (Ethiopia), and resulting League of Nations sanctions—sanctions which Churchill described as “willing to strike but afraid to wound.”

  • Quote: “The sanctions exempted the one thing Italy could not do without at this time, which was oil. ...Willing to strike but afraid to wound.” — Dr. Larry Arnn paraphrasing Churchill [07:17]

• Estrangement & Consequences: Toothless sanctions pushed Italy into Hitler’s camp, shifting Mediterranean power balances.

3. Churchill’s Warnings: Rearmament & Air Power

Timestamps: [08:19]–[10:49]

• Insight on Air Power: Churchill foresaw the profound change in warfare due to airplanes, warning Britain to build up its air force and prepare its industry.

  • Quote: “We need a serious superiority over Germany in airplanes... We've never been in a position where Britain is subject to immediate attack... The airplane is, from that point of view, a disastrous invention.” — Dr. Larry Arnn [09:26]

• Contemporary Parallel: Hewitt draws a line from Churchill’s warnings to today’s defense needs—emphasizing the call to “build more airplanes.”

  • Memorable Moment: “Always a good idea. Build more airplanes. Say it means more B21s, more F35. Build more airplane.” — Hugh Hewitt [10:49]

4. Strategic Parallels: 1935 Britain vs. 2025 America

Timestamps: [12:48]–[15:58]

• Rising Powers & Deterrence: Hewitt compares modern China’s military and technological buildup (hypersonic missiles, naval strength) to Britain’s “late awakening” in the 1930s.

  • Quote: “America in 2025 is not unlike Great Britain in 1935. Waking up to the fact that there is no abroad. And I don't know that we've got a Churchill around…” — Hugh Hewitt [13:46]

• Asymmetric Costs: Dr. Arnn discusses how modern drones and cheap missiles threaten expensive platforms like aircraft carriers—much as the airplane changed war in the 1930s.

5. The Night of the Long Knives & Modern Dictatorship

Timestamps: [16:28]–[18:44]

• Hitler’s Ruthlessness: Hewitt is astonished at the scale of violence during the Night of the Long Knives—thousands killed to consolidate Hitler’s grip.

  • Quote: “He took out everyone... and he is absolutely shameless in saying he is Germany and Germany is him.” — Hugh Hewitt [16:46]

• Modern Resonance: Dr. Arnn draws analogies between Hitler’s one-man rule and modern autocrats like Xi and Putin, who have shown similar ruthlessness.

6. French Weakness, Assassination, and Appeasement

Timestamps: [19:31]–[24:27]

• Unexpected Assassinations: Discussion of the little-known 1934 Marseilles assassination, which brought the appeaser Laval to power in France.

  • Quote: “I have never heard about the assassination in Marseille… King Alexander... the leading general in France and the foreign minister of France are all in a car and get blown up…” — Hugh Hewitt [20:49]

• French Army’s Illusions & Decline: Arnn describes France’s shift from overconfidence (pre-WWI) to overcautious defense (pre-WWII), leading to their swift collapse.

  • Quote: “They just got off on the wrong foot, had the wrong idea and they got blasted...” — Dr. Larry Arnn [23:45]

• Churchill vs. Napoleon: Churchill eschewed Napoleonic conquest in favor of British traditions—limited war, naval supremacy, low casualties.

7. Churchill’s Urgency & the Dangers of Weakness

Timestamps: [26:48]–[29:31]

• Churchill’s Strategic Outlook: Churchill called for “timely steps that will keep the worst from happening,” advocating rearmament but not wanting war until it was truly inevitable.

  • Quote: “He never thinks we should have this war now, not until 1938…” — Dr. Larry Arnn [27:00]

• Dictators’ Calculations: Churchill recognized that dictators like Hitler advanced simply because they could, facing only weak resistance.

  • Quote: “He says they're just weak. They won't stand up to me. Do you think G thinks that about us now?” — Hugh Hewitt [28:10]

• Strength vs. Appearance: Arnn emphasizes the need to actually possess strength, not just perform it.

  • Quote: “We should think a little less about appearing strong and a little more—a lot more—about being strong.” — Dr. Larry Arnn [29:33]

8. Tangents on Contemporary U.S. Constitutional Law and Immigration

Timestamps: [30:02]–[36:36]

• Presidential Authority & Supreme Court: Brief detour into legal issues surrounding tariffs, presidential powers, and Trump’s use of older statutes.

• Immigration Policies: Arnn discusses the Alien Enemies Act, contemporary immigration, and enforcement dilemmas, paralleling historical challenges of governance in crisis.

• Quote: “If you actually are trying to deport large numbers of people, it's going to be messy. Which is one of the reasons it was a very clever thing to let them in here in the first place. Hard to get them out.” — Dr. Larry Arnn [36:10]

• Modern Parallels: Hewitt likens recent U.S. leadership (especially under Biden) to the systemic weaknesses and “ineptitude” of 1930s Britain and France.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Mussolini: “In the end Mussolini was weak and he...decided at some point to go along. Italy, by the way, was an ally of Britain and France in the First World War against Germany. But Hitler manages to reverse that also.”
  — Dr. Larry Arnn [03:13]

• On Sanctions: “The sanctions exempted the one thing Italy could not do without at this time, which was oil…willing to strike but afraid to wound.”
  — Paraphrasing Churchill, Dr. Larry Arnn [07:17]

• On Air Power: “We need a serious superiority over Germany in airplanes... We've never been in a position where Britain is subject to immediate attack... The airplane is, from that point of view, a disastrous invention.”
  — Dr. Larry Arnn [09:26]

• On Rising Threats: “America in 2025 is not unlike Great Britain in 1935. Waking up to the fact that there is no abroad.”
  — Hugh Hewitt [13:46]

• On Dictators: “Whoever was…But, yeah, it's…you just got to think like...in countries like that, the one guy…can't be sure that they're not going to use force on you as has been used on them in domestic politics.”
  — Dr. Larry Arnn [17:17]

• On Churchill's Call for Strength: “We should think a little less about appearing strong and a little more—a lot more—about being strong.”
  — Dr. Larry Arnn [29:33]

Important Segment Timestamps

| Time | Segment Description | |----------|------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:32 | Hitler’s aims, Churchill’s warnings, and British denial | | 02:35 | Mussolini, Italy, fascism, and shifting alliances | | 08:19 | The strategic importance of air power and Churchill’s prescience | | 12:48 | Modern parallels: China’s build-up & U.S. vulnerabilities | | 16:28 | Night of the Long Knives; modern dictatorships | | 19:31 | The 1934 Marseilles assassination and resulting French appeasement | | 26:48 | Churchill’s calls for rearmament and lessons for today | | 30:02 | Contemporary U.S. legal and immigration tangents |

Episode Wrap-Up

• Main Takeaway: Churchill’s warnings in 1934 revolved around timely, realistic rearmament, vigilance in the face of clear threats, and the dangers of underestimating ambitious dictators.
• Modern Resonance: The hosts draw frequent parallels to present-day U.S. strategic challenges, highlighting the persistent necessity of both real strength and wise diplomacy.
• Final Thoughts: Both emphasize the value of Churchill’s writing for understanding not only history but also the present—and the future.

For More:

• All prior Churchill dialogues: hughforhillsdale.com
• More Hillsdale Dialogues and information: podcast.hillsdale.edu