Churchill’s The Second World War, Part Ten

Summary

Hillsdale Dialogues: Churchill’s The Second World War, Part Ten

Podcast: Hillsdale Dialogues
Hosts: Dr. Larry Arnn (President, Hillsdale College), Hugh Hewitt
Date: November 10, 2025
Main Theme:
A deep discussion of key events in the late 1930s as chronicled by Winston Churchill in "The Second World War," particularly the Spanish Civil War, British non-intervention, the Abdication Crisis of Edward VIII, and the broader implications for the troubling drift toward World War II.

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Hugh Hewitt and Dr. Larry Arnn delve into Churchill’s reflections on the period leading up to World War II—focusing on the Spanish Civil War, Britain’s foreign policy traditions, the divisive Abdication Crisis of King Edward VIII, and how these shaped Churchill’s position and the fate of Europe. They also frame these historical moments in the context of today’s challenges in leadership and governance.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Current Events & Their Historical Resonance

• The episode begins with a brief discussion of American political turbulence and recent elections, followed by observations about Tucker Carlson’s controversial interview and the importance of challenging dangerous ideas directly (00:31–03:22).
• Quote: “Stalin and Hitler are in a very brisk competition with Mao for worst people of the 20th century.”
  — Hugh Hewitt (02:24)
• Dr. Arnn reflects on how fascism and extremism were engaged in Churchill’s Britain—a segue to Churchill’s dealings with homegrown fascists like Oswald Mosley.
  Quote: “Oswald was confined to quarters...there’s a system called rule...They could arrest people for subverting the war effort.”
  — Dr. Larry Arnn (03:37–03:51)
• Analyses of current American polarization, likening today’s partisan divides to the sharper cleavages of 1930s Europe (05:15–07:47).

2. Britain’s Foreign Policy Tradition (07:47–10:31)

• Churchill’s summary of 400 years of British foreign policy: always opposing the dominant continental power (e.g., against Spain, France, Germany).
• Dr. Arnn applies Churchill’s logic to America’s global role today, warning against over-extension and stressing alliance management for national benefit.
  • Quote: “If you look for some efficient friends who will be durable and can contribute...then you might be able to run your foreign policy more successfully and cheaply.”
    — Dr. Larry Arnn (09:28)
  • Relevance to the US and the growing challenge from China.
• Both hosts stress that the purpose of national security is individual liberty, not imperial ambition.

3. The Spanish Civil War & British Neutrality (12:49–16:51)

• In-depth explanation of Britain’s choice not to intervene in Spain, despite Hitler and Stalin’s involvement via proxies.
  • Britain and Churchill both remained neutral, partly from overload and because both Hitler and Stalin were seen as repugnant forces.
  • Notably, Franco, although aided by Hitler, stayed neutral in WWII—a strategic boon for Britain.
  • George Orwell’s role as a disillusioned anti-fascist is briefly mentioned.
  • Quote: “Franco was not really a Nazi...it becomes a terrible frustration to Hitler that Franco remained neutral and didn’t help him.”
    — Dr. Larry Arnn (13:50)
  • The confusion and danger of forming alliances in such a volatile environment is emphasized.

4. The Abdication Crisis of Edward VIII (17:29–25:40)

• Background: King Edward VIII abdicated to marry Wallis Simpson, an American divorcee—a scandal that rocked Britain in 1936.
• Churchill supported Edward, mistakenly judging both the public mood and Edward’s character, which damaged his political capital at a crucial time.
  • Quote: “Churchill just got completely outmaneuvered and made, in my opinion, gross mistakes here...he trusted Edward. Edward turned out to be...a Nazi sympathizer later.”
    — Dr. Larry Arnn (18:03)
• Edward’s later actions in Europe (associating with Nazi agents) and Churchill’s stern rebuke as Prime Minister, including the episode where Churchill ordered Edward to his post as Governor of the Bahamas, are recounted.
  • Notable Moment: Churchill’s letter to Edward invoking military discipline and summoning him to a post—showcasing Churchill’s firm leadership (21:56).

Timestamps for Abdication Crisis Segment

• Edward VIII’s relationship with Wallis Simpson: 17:29–18:07
• Churchill’s miscalculation and loyalty to Edward: 18:07–20:41
• Churchill’s later letter to the Duke of Windsor: 20:41–22:16
• Social, religious, and political reasons for abdication: 22:16–23:33

5. The Importance of Monarchy, Tradition, and Symbolism (27:42–32:34)

• Dr. Arnn explains the enduring traditions of the British monarchy—how ceremonies like “kissing hands” and the “Black Rod” in Parliament connect the nation with its history.
• Israel’s lack of such traditions is discussed, highlighting the potential stabilizing power of constitutional rituals.
  • Quote: “The abolition of the monarchy in Britain would be devastating to Britain. And it’s not impossible.”
    — Dr. Larry Arnn (32:10)

6. Churchill’s Low Point and the Missed Opportunity to Stop Hitler (32:34–36:59)

• After the abdication crisis, Churchill’s influence dropped to “zero,” crippling his efforts to rally Britain to action against Hitler’s provocations.
  • Quote: “My influence had fallen to zero. It takes a certain statesmanlike quality to be able to assess yourself that candidly...”
    — Hugh Hewitt (32:34)
• 1935 as the year of missed opportunity—when the Allies could have resisted Hitler with relative ease; by the time action was seriously considered, the situation had drastically worsened.
• Dr. Arnn stresses that revisionists blaming Churchill for failing to stop the war are simply ignorant of chronology: Churchill was sidelined when he was most needed.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Engaging Extremists:

• “Nothing wrong with talking with them, but you ought to fight them.”
  — Dr. Larry Arnn (02:36)

On Foreign Policy:

• “If you go trying to settle the whole world and dominate the whole world, you’ll spend endless money and never get it done.”
  — Dr. Larry Arnn (09:20)

On Political Symbolism:

• “Their job was to be a family now...If they reign but don’t rule, then they are a symbol. And they’re not an unimportant symbol.”
  — Dr. Larry Arnn (23:56)

On Churchill’s Self-awareness:

• “My influence had fallen to zero.”
  — Winston Churchill (as quoted by Hugh Hewitt, 32:34)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Opening & Current Affairs: 00:31–07:47
• British Foreign Policy Tradition: 07:47–12:29
• Spanish Civil War: 12:49–16:51
• Abdication Crisis & Churchill’s Mistake: 17:29–25:40
• Parliamentary & Monarchical Tradition: 27:42–32:34
• Churchill’s Political Eclipse & Missed Opportunity: 32:34–36:59

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Conclusion

This episode provides an insightful window into the interplay between personal loyalty, statesmanship, and national destiny through Churchill’s dilemmas and decisions. It underscores the role of tradition, the dangers of appeasement, and the tragic costs of political miscalculation on the brink of war—all woven together in the lively, erudite banter that is a hallmark of the Hillsdale Dialogues.

Next Episode Teaser:
Dr. Arnn and Hugh Hewitt promise to explore how Churchill rebuilt his stature and eventually spearheaded Britain’s rearmament and resistance to Hitler, highlighting his unlikely alliances and relentless dedication to national readiness.

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[For a full archive of episodes, visit hillsdale.edu or hughforhillsdale.com.]

Transcript

[Scott Bertram]

Every week Hillsdale College president Larry Arne joins Hugh Hewitt to discuss great books, great men and great ideas. This is Hillsdale Dialogues, part of the Hillsdale College Podcast Network. More episodes at podcast Hillsdale. Edu or wherever you find your audio.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Morning Glory and Evening Grace America. I'm Hugh Hewitt. That music means the Hillsdale Dialogue, the last broadcast hour of the week with usually and certainly this week. Dr. Larry Arn, President of Hillsdale College, all things Hillsdale at hillsdale. Edu. All of our prior Hillsdale Dialogues are [e-mail] you can also find them by going directly to the college's website at hillsdale.edu. Dr. Arne we are deep into volume one of Winston Churchill Second World War series and today we're going to cover the Spanish Civil War, 1936-39 and the Abdication Crisis at Chapter 12. The loaded pause for those who are following along with their own copies. But before we do that, I didn't want to dance on by the fact that Republicans got thumped on Tuesday night. And Dr. Kevin Roberts of the Heritage foundation gave a fine speech at Hillsdale a couple of nights earlier. Let's do Dr. Roberts first. I think his speech was much better than his video and I think it was well received from what I could see. How did the students like it?

[Dr. Larry Arne]

They liked it fine. You know, we're not 24 hours wrapped up in public affairs around here. So there's some of them knew about the mess mass comes from. Tucker Carlson did an interview with a really crazy guy named Nick Fuentes and he got a lot of flack for that. My own view about that interview is Nick Fuentes is an open admirer of Stalin and Hitler. So if you're going to interview the guy, you should read to him from the Gulag archipelago about Stalin and from man's search for meaning. It's an Auschwitz diary about Hitler. And then you should ask him is that what you're for? Because apparently Tucker didn't do that. Anyway, Kevin didn't want Tucker.

[Hugh Hewitt]

And we should all agree we you and I and everyone that I know at Hillsdale think Stalin and Hitler are in a very brisk competition with Mao for worst people of the 20th century.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

Yep, that's it. And you know, these guys are hideous, right? And apparently, you know, some this Nick Fuente has got a big following and apparently a lot of them's young men and they and the reason to talk to the guys because you can talk to anybody but you should be trying to teach those young men something better and if that's what his audience is. And so there's nothing wrong with talking with them, but you ought to fight them. So anyway, and Kevin is. Kevin is. Kevin is a man of good principle and opinion and good character, and everything will be fine. But there's a lot of crazy stuff going on in America right now.

[Hugh Hewitt]

There are. You know, I was wondering, what did Churchill do with the fascist in the United Kingdom, Lord Oswald, whatever his last name was, did he engage with him or did he shun him?

[Dr. Larry Arne]

He engaged with them. Oswald was a man of some prominence, had some government experience, and Churchill arrested some of those guys when the war broke out.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Right.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

Oswald was confined to quarters. But, yeah, there's a system called rule, I think it was called. And they could arrest people for subverting the war effort. And in 1943, after the battle of Alamein, when the war began to ease, Churchill immediately called for the suspension of that thing. He was the first to do it. And he got a lot of resistance in the House of Commons and got it done. But a funny story. Martin Gilbert, sir. Martin Gilbert, the church biographer, a Jew, ended up riding on a train with Oswald mostly in much later life.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Yeah.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

And found him a very pleasant man, but he was a kook and he was a Nazi. And, you know, Nazi is not a good thing to be.

[Hugh Hewitt]

We will get more into what Churchill thought of Nazis before he came to power today and next week. But. But let me quickly also get you to comment on the thumping in New Jersey and Virginia, which are blue states, and Manhattan and the four boroughs besides, which is deep blue. I'm not panicking. I'm not alone. I would like to have won New Jersey. I had my hopes up a little bit because Ciarelli is very, very fine man, a good candidate. But I'm not surprised the thumping took place, are you?

[Dr. Larry Arne]

No, no. It. I mean, the country is dividing. You know, the both of the blue states have been redistricting themselves to favor their party for a long time, and the Republicans are doing it now, too. And the effect of this is going to be that they're going to be more divided from each other and the country's splitting up in politically and political inclination. And the blue states are, you know, they are. Seem to be confirmed in their blueness, at least for now. And it's too bad. One had hopes. I think that winsome Sears lady who got beat running in Virginia is an inspiring story and a good woman. I'd love to see her win. You wrote to me that it makes Youngkin look really great. Youngkin is a really great politician. I bet he's got a future of some kind. I hope so.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Yeah. I did want to point out that Byron York came up with the one statistic that I thought most interesting. In the city of New York, those with no high school degree voted 49 to 40% Cuomo over Mondame. Those with just a high school degree voted 47 to 39% for Cuomo over Mondami. Those who had some College preferred Cuomo 48 to 40%. Those with an associate's degree preferred Cuomo 48 to 45%. But those with bachelor's and especially advanced degrees preferred Cuomo to Mamdani by 57 to 37%. So Mamdani won with the so called educated elite. I am shocked. Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

That's just. I didn't know it was that dramatic. Also, I didn't know there were that many of them in New York. Makes me fear for the Republic.

[Hugh Hewitt]

They're also in D.C. in large numbers. That's why Virginia went blue.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, in, in, you know, these driving Ubers in D.C. and it's kind of good for them, actually, because the one. I have met several who are like that and they sort of have a very strong sense of reality. So. But I. In New York, apparently not. It's an interesting thing. You know, for a long time, if you lived up in New York or Massachusetts and you moved down to Florida, you went because the weather was better and that made Florida bluer. But that doesn't seem to be the reason anymore. Now they're going because they can't bear them.

[Hugh Hewitt]

1% of New York City, 1% pays 48% of the income taxes. And that 1% is going to get smaller in a hurry. Let me go to the reading ahead. On page 186 to 90, Churchill summarizes Great Britain's historical position. For 400 years, he writes, the foreign policy of England had been opposed to the strongest, most aggressive, most dominating power on the continent, and particularly the Low Countries, falling into the hands of such a power. And he brings up the Armada in Philip ii, Louis XIV versus his wonderful ancestor Marlborough, and William II opposing Napoleon and opposing the Kaiser. And he says we should do it again. He just marched into the Rhineland, but people were starting to pay attention when the abdication came along.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

So first of all, that foreign policy. I was just talking to a very interesting man named Chris Ford, who's doing a study for the Defense Department. He's very smart. He's a professor in Missouri and he was asked me to speculate about future China, future America, what they'll be like and what their relations will be. And I told him I didn't know anything about the future, but I knew something about the past. And I think, and I read him this, this statement that Churchill made to the a bunch of members of the Conservative members of the Parliament about the nature of British foreign policy. And it's a fair description of the nature of our foreign policy. You just think the purpose of the government of the United States is the protection of rights of its people, then foreign policy is a tool for that, and it should be run with that directly in mind as much as possible. And if you go trying to settle the whole world and dominate the whole world, you'll spend endless money and never get it done. If you look for some efficient friends who will be durable and can contribute and are located in places that matter, then you might be able to run your foreign policy more successfully and cheaply. And things like that are going to become more important to us because China's got a bigger navy than we have and is involved in the greatest military buildup in human history, as the Germans were in these very years that we're talking about. And adjusted for inflation, the Chinese one is bigger than what the Germans did. So, yeah, we've got to think about how to do it efficiently and, you know, not do more of it than we have to do, because the real purpose is so people can be happy at home, make a living and live their lives and raise their families. And I think sometimes we've been guilty of forgetting that.

[Hugh Hewitt]

And that is indeed the case. We have been guilty of forgetting that. Don't go anywhere except to hillsdale edu hugh for hillsdale.com I'll be right back with Dr. Arne after this.

[Podcast Announcer]

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[Scott Bertram]

Hey there, it's Scott Bertram, host of the Radio Free Hillsdale Hour. On this week's program, we talk with Susan Crabtree. She's senior White House and national political correspondent for Real Clear Politics. Her new book is Fool's the Radicals Come Con Artists and Traitors who killed the California dream and now threaten us all. More on Gavin Newsom, Kamala Harris and many more. And Jeremiah Regan, executive director of online learning here at Hillsdale previews the brand new online course documentary Colonial America. All that this week on the radio Free Hillsdale Hour. Find it at podcast Hillsdale. Edu or wherever you get your audio.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Welcome back, America. I'm Hugh Hewitt. Hillsdale dialogue underway. All things hillsdalesdale. Edu all the [e-mail] Dr. We went to break. You were talking about the ultimate purposes of the government, so that national security is a servant of the population that you are securing.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

Yeah. And that's only because everything is and that is effect included in the category everything. The government of the United States has a reason for being, and it's stated in its founding document. And it should do that. It should pursue that reason. That's what it's for.

[Hugh Hewitt]

All right, let me turn then to something that I have never quite studied at length, which is the Spanish Civil War, which runs from 1936 to 1939. And I think I have four quick maps that Harley might be able to throw up there if he got the pictures. It shows that there are two parties. There's 1936. The pink is Franco's people, though he hasn't consolidated. Then move along, Harley, to 1937, then 1938 and then 1939. And guess what? Franco wins. The Brits don't get involved in this, Dr. Arne. Why not? And why, by the way, does France stand aside when Stalin is helping the communists, or they called themselves Republicans, but they're communists and Hitler is helping Franco and the Falange. Why does Britain stand off from that?

[Dr. Larry Arne]

Britain stood off from it because it was, well, for a good reason and a bad reason. The bad reason was it was generally standoffish at a time when it didn't need to be. Churchill stood off from it. He writes in this book, in this chapter that he was neutral. And the reason was we're up to our ears and alligators at this time. The Soviet Union and the communists are on one side and Hitler and the fascists are on the other side. And he didn't. And if you, if you choose one of the sides, you're certainly not going to choose Hitler's side and see Franco. I have to zoom ahead a little bit. Franco was not really a Nazi. And as the war unfolded after he won this war, it becomes a terrible frustration to Hitler that Franco remained neutral and didn't help him. And Hitler expected that he would. And that was a great boon to the Western Allies in the first three years of the war. A lot of it is fought in North Africa and British ships going from Britain had to go past Spain to get down there. And if Spain had been hostile and also hostile in the Mediterranean, where it has access to, that would have been dangerous and bad. So it actually worked out for the west, the anti Hitler forces, that Franco won. But at the time it was a confused and confusing thing and you never know how it's going to play out. And, you know, at the time, Hitler was the obvious enemy and the Soviet Union, in Churchill's mind, was a thing. In most British minds, by the way, was a thing to be hated, feared and hated. So they want to join them and the Soviets are all over that thing, trying to get a Communist. You know that. By the way, George Orwell fought in that war down there and turned against Communism. He was on the Communist side and he turned against it because he was in prison for a time and they kept taking people from cells nearby him and torturing them or shooting them. And he watched that, you know, and he just thought, this is terrible. Right. But. So you didn't only join them. Now they end up being our allies in the Second World War, having been the allies of the Germans first, because they're fighting it out through proxy in Spain. But what is this, a year and a half later they joined with Hitler to carve up Poland. So the reasons that it was hard to figure out was that diplomacy is a very shifty thing, especially on the eve of that big war.

[Hugh Hewitt]

When we finished the Hillsdale cruise together and you went off and did smart things, fetching, Mrs. Hewitt and I took in a play called Operation Mincemeat. True story. The ruse to persuade Hitler that the Allies were going to land in Corsica or Sardinia and not Sicily. And it worked. They used a dead body and they floated it up with false documents in Spain, where pretty much every spy worth his or her salt was for at least a period of the war. So it became the intrigue capital of the World War. Everyone had a spy in Spain.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

Yeah, yeah. Well, you mentioned the education crisis and it's useful to say something about that, because the King of England was Edward viii and he abdicated because he had a relationship going when he eventually married her to an American named Wallis Simpson, who was a divorced woman.

[Hugh Hewitt]

We have a picture of him, Harley, up, if you've got the picture ready, so that people can see they're quite the dashing couple in. What is this 1936. Dr. Erne.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

Yeah, that's right.

[Hugh Hewitt]

And so she is a divorcee. Right?

[Dr. Larry Arne]

That's it. And, you know, he's the head of the Church of England back at a time when that mattered more than us today. And so Churchill was, you know, Churchill knew all the monarchs and they're all the princes royal and princesses royal and most of the aristocracy all his life. And he knew Edward VIII since growing up. And when there's a crisis like that, then the Prime Minister is the advisor and in some ways the controller of what the monarchy does. Edward asked Stanley Baldwin, who was very clever, if he could consult with Churchill. Now, my opinion about all this, because Churchill just got completely outmaneuvered and made, in my opinion, gross mistakes here. And the heart of the mistake was he trusted Edward. Edward turned out to be. This is what reminded me of in Spain. He spent some time in Spain and then quite a lot in France. He turned out to be a Nazi sympathizer later and in the middle of his great campaign, which ultimately succeeded barely, to get Britain to start arming itself and get ready to fight, because if you don't get ready to fight, you're going to have to fight and then you'll lose. Churchill stood up for Edward and it was all cooked by the time he did that. He gave a speech and he records in this book that he could hardly be heard, but it was a complete failure because everybody in the place except Churchill knew better and knew what was going on better than Churchill did. He was only talking to Edward More.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Coming up on that in a moan. America, don't go anywhere. Edward viii, not a good guy. We'll find out how he brought Churchill down to a very low point just when the war might have been averted if Churchill had been able to have more strength at the time of the abdication crisis. We'll talk more about that. All things hillsdalesdale. Edu and all of our dialogues on The World War II memoirs already recorded are [e-mail] Stay tuned. Welcome back, America. We are talking on the Hillsdale Dialogue with Dr. Larry Arn, President of Hillsdale College, about the abdication crisis in Edward VIII. And it doesn't end then, right, Dr. Arndt.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

Churchill would later have a lot of relations with Edward all the way to the time of Churchill's death. But in 1941, I think that's the year Churchill got a letter from Edward's brother, now King George vi. He's the man that they made the movie what the King's Speech. He stuttered, he's the father of Elizabeth II and he's a great guy, but he never wanted to be king anyway. George VI rides to Churchill and says, my brother says he's coming back to England from occupied France, where he was hanging out, and Portugal and Spain having coffee with German agents, diplomats mostly. And he says he's going to make a series of speeches. Oh, my gosh. And Churchill writes him a letter which is published in the Churchill biography. It says, after he's abdicated, Edward VIII becomes the Duke of Windsor. That was his title for the rest of his life. Churchill writes, my dear Windsor, I write to remind you that you are a field Marshal in the British army and that you are subject to all the rules of courts martial. You've been appointed Governor General of the Bahamas and have not reported to your post. There will be a British warship waiting for you tomorrow at the port in the town where you are. You will be on it. Winston Churchill.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Yeah, that is, that's. Actually, can we back up one second? Because I've never understood the abdication crisis. I understood that Winston Churchill misjudged the feeling of the house. But why was everyone. I know that the Church of England didn't like divorce, but Henry VIII made the rules when he couldn't get divorced. I thought the rules had changed to allow for divorce by that time. Was it that she was an American, that she was twice divorced? Because they remained married their whole life. They were deeply in love.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

Well, you know, it's in. The difference between the time of Henry VIII and the time of Edward VIII is that Henry VIII was a very powerful man and Edward VIII is a symbol. And what they have to be is a family. And, you know, they are the royal family and they. And so back then they were. They needed to act like a family. And so this was unacceptable to British opinion that a twice divorced American would marry and be the Queen. At one point, Stanley Baldwin explored trying to fashion a morganatic marriage. They called it.

[Hugh Hewitt]

And I can't remember, you've left the Steelers fans behind right there. They're going to think Morgantown in West Virginia. What is a morganatic marriage?

[Dr. Larry Arne]

That's when a Steelers fan marries a bucket.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Well done. Well played, Mr. Bond.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

Neither one of them can read. It's. No. What it means. I don't know where the name comes from. What it means is she would be married to the King, but she would not be the Queen. And Edward dug in his heels about that, as I recall. And so the thing fell apart and he abdicated and my point that I want to make is he was not a good guy, right. Later, Ian Churchill had courts over the house. When Elizabeth ii, the great queen who died few years ago, was coronated 1952, Churchill was prime minister and he arbitrated between members of the family and the Duke of Windsor so he could come back for the deal. And Churchill treated him very cordially, having previously threatened to have him arrested. And so it's their job was to be a family now. And you know, if they reign but don't rule, then they are a symbol. And they're not an unimportant symbol. They're very important symbol. I mean, this stuff with Prince Andrew that's going on lately is grievous to.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Andrew of Windsor, by the way. Now, now Andrew of Windsor no longer Prince Andrew.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

Andrew Windsor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He doesn't have a title anymore and he hadn't behaved himself very well. And so, you know, that's, that hurts, right? And the stuff with Charles and Diana, that hurts, right? That compromises their ability to perform, to do their job, to be the symbol.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Of British sovereignty, to do their duty, in essence. Don't go anywhere, America. We'll continue with Dr. Lehrein, President of Hillsdale College. All things Hillsdale at Hillsdale. Edu. All all the dialogues prior and future @hugh for hillsdale.com Stay tuned.

[Scott Bertram]

Hey there, it's Scott Bertram, host of the Radio Free Hillsdale Hour. On this week's program, we talk with Susan Crabtree. She's senior White House and national political correspondent for Real Clear Politics. Her new book is Fool's the Radicals, Con Artists and Traitors who Killed the California Dream and and Now Threaten Us All. More on Gavin Newsom, Kamala Harris and many more. And Jeremiah Regan, executive director of online learning here at Hillsdale, previews the brand new online course documentary Colonial America. All that this week on the Radio Free Hillsdale Hour. Find it at podcast hillsdale. Edu or wherever you get your audio. You know the Robertson family from the hit TV show Duck Dynasty. Now Hillsdale College offers you the unique opportunity to learn alongside the Robertsons as they dive deep into Hillsdale's online course, the Genesis Story. Every Friday on the Unashamed podcast, the Robertsons will share their insights and perspectives learning from Hillsdale professor of English church Justin Jackson. Take a trip down south to Louisiana for this one of a kind learning experience we call Unashamed Academy. Visit unashamedforhillsdale.com and enroll today. That's Unashamed F O R hillsdale.com to experience the genesis story alongside the Robertsons.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Welcome back, America. I'm Hugh Hewitt. The Hillsdale dialogue is underway. Last broadcast hour of the week, all things Hillsdale. At Hillsdale. Edu, we're talking about the traditions of Great Britain, a great parliamentary democracy, some of which endure.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

Now, I will tell you that there are still forms that exist that change things in Britain, and the two most important ones of which I know are the Prime Minister has to consult with the Queen on a regular basis, goes over to Caesar and the King now tells him what's going on. The King, now the King has to sign the bills to make them law. When a minister is to take a position appointed by the Parliament and in the government senior minister, he has to go to the palace and do what's called kiss hands. That means you report, talk to the King for a minute and he says, and you kiss his hands now, you can do it. He appoints you. He appoints you. Finally, the parliamentary season begins in the August, I think, or September, after being off in the summer. And when they get back together, it begins with the speech from the throne. And in the speech from the throne, this happens in the chamber of the House of Lords. And the forms of it are hallowed as important and developed through hard history. The Queen, the monarch, comes in through a gate on the House of Lords side, enters into a throne room that's behind the chamber. It's big. Of the House of Lords, puts on all the gear. And then when it's getting close to time, agents of the House of Lords go down and walk a long hallway to the other end of the palace of Westminster. The part that's directly under Big Ben is the House of Commons. And they knock on the door with the staff. They don't open the door themselves. And the place where they knock on the door with the staff has now got a big depression in it because they've been doing it for 200, 300 years now, 400 years now. And that traces back to Charles I invading the House of Commons with troops to arrest Oliver Cromwell and others. He didn't get them all. He didn't get any of them, actually. They'd all flown away. They knew he was coming. But, you know, he eventually got his head cut off. And now no agent of the monarch or the aristocracy can enter the chamber of the House of Commons without permission from the House of Commons.

[Hugh Hewitt]

You may be surprised, Dr. Arndt. The book I have most recently read is called a call at 4am by Amit Sehgal, probably Israel's most influential analyst and television journalist. And he's writing about the 14 Prime Ministers of Israel and their biggest decisions. But on page two of his book, he talks about this tradition. He said, this is what stability looks like. What about tradition? And then he recites, he said, the Queen's representative taps on it three times with a black rod topped with a miniature lion. Since 1642, the same black rod has struck the same door every year in the name of the same crown. If you ever ask Siri what. What's tradition, your iPhone might give you a picture of this dent on the door caused by 1,134 knocks, three a year. That's in a book published this year by an Israeli journalist about why Israel's political system is shambles. Isn't that remarkable?

[Dr. Larry Arne]

Isn't that great? I just love that. And then members of the House of Commons go down that long hallway and assemble with the members of the House of Lords. And the queen comes out from behind. From her. The king from the throne room and sits on a throne in front of the House of Lords and reads the government program for the year. And the Prime Minister and the Cabinet write that program. He or she doesn't. The monarch doesn't write it, but they read it. And I once told Martin Gilbert, because I was very taken with these facts. I still am now. You are too, Hugh.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Yes.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

Yeah. And that puts some limit on what they might do. I said to Martin Gilbert, and he looked at me, he said, they can still get a little crazy, can't they? So it's it. But those forms persist. Right. And they're taken seriously. And like the abolition of the monarchy in Britain would be devastating to Britain. And it's not impossible.

[Hugh Hewitt]

It will Seagal's opinion that Israel needs more tradition because they are untethered to any particular constitution, written or unwritten, and they make their way. I want to quickly, before this wraps up, get to the fact that Churchill was very aware of the fact, quote, my influence had fallen to zero. It takes a certain statesmanlike quality to be able to assess yourself that candidly, I think.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

Yeah, yeah. And he, you know, and what I think is it would be a much worse thing if Winston Churchill had betrayed a friend who was a good man than standing by somebody he thought was a friend that was a bad man. And that's the kind of mistake that Churchill might make. Stanley Baldwin, not quite so likely to make such a mistake. And it did cost a lot. And this is right in the. So in, you know, if we get the years. Right. Hitler becomes prime chancellor of Germany in January of 1933. He takes the Rhineland and begins to fortify it in 1935. Churchill thinks 1935 was a big year because that was a treaty violation and France by itself could have stopped it with a small part of its army. And Britain refused to help them. They didn't really need British help, but they. And they let him get away with it. Right. So 1935 is a big year because that's when passes the easy opportunity to stop this.

[Hugh Hewitt]

It's hard to believe there was an easy opportunity to stop the war, but Dr. Arnaz Wright will come back and discuss more of that. Welcome back, America. I'm Hugh Hewitt. The Hillsdale dialogue is underway. If you just tuned in, you knew that because of the music, we reserved the opening sequence for the Hillsdale dialogue, the last broadcast hour of every week. All of them are [e-mail] everything Hillsdale, including the application you might want to fill out if you're 17 or 18 or 19 years old right now or if you're a parent, you want to interest your kid in a wonderful, terrific education at Hillsdale. It's all at Hillsdale. Edu, as are all of their free online courses. You can also sign up for Imprimis, the monthly speech digest, which arrives the old fashioned way in your mailbox absolutely free. And if you want to support Hillsdale, the donate button is there they are, I think, what's going to keep the country together long term? Our Hillsdale graduates talking with Dr. Larry Ahren about volume one, the Gathering Storm. And indeed, Dr. Arne, we're getting to the point where Hitler could have been stopped in Germany.

[Dr. Larry Arne]

Very powerful force. This thought. Hitler is reckless and he shouldn't do this. And if he had a setback, he might have been taken out and he would have had to be more. Anyway, Germany would have had to be more cautious. But they let him get away with it and now his prestige grows and then darned if he doesn't up and take over Austria and then Czechoslovakia and then Poland. We'll get to all that. And the point is, when it was easy to do something, they didn't, and eventually we got the greatest war in history. And this abdication thing comes up at a moment when Churchill is getting traction and Stanley Baldwin just completely outmaneuvered him. And Baldwin probably was not even maneuvering. But Baldwin was trying to do the right thing. He tried to save the situation with Edward. He tried to work out a compromise and. And Edward was not a good fellow just was not a good fellow.

[Hugh Hewitt]

And I will put a period on this edition of the Hilltail Dialogues by pointing out to the revisionists out there who are trying to tear down Churchill. Churchill was trying to stop Hitler until the abdication and he continued to stop Hitler and eventually had to stop Hitler as head of England. But he is utterly powerless after this crisis in 1936. He has got zero influence against at the moment when he's most needed. And so the people who want to blame World War II on Churchill, they don't know anything. Can I get an amen from you, Dr. Arndt?

[Dr. Larry Arne]

Amen. And we should start with that point next time because we should describe what Churchill did to rebuild himself and get a rearmament campaign underway.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Deal. And we will be back again next week and we will pick up there with that amen. And what Churchill did to rebuild himself and how crucial it was and how he made partnership with the most unlikely of people, Anthony Eden. Maybe not that unlikely, but I can't think of anyone with an upbringing or a background more different. Thank you, Harley. Thank you, Generalissimo. Thank you, Adam. And of course, thank you, Dr. Arne. Everything Hillsdale can be found at hillsdale.edu. all of our prior dialogues, including the 10 or so about these memoirs, can be found at hueforhilsdale.com or over at hillsdale.edu. thank you for listening. Catch you on Monday on the next Hughes Shop.

[Scott Bertram]

Thanks for listening to the Hillsdale Dialogues, part of the Hillsdale College Podcast network. More episodes at Podcast Hillsdale. Edu or wherever you find your audio. For more information about Hillsdale College, head to Hillsdale. Edu.