Hillsdale Dialogues: Churchill’s The Second World War, Part Ten

Podcast: Hillsdale Dialogues
Hosts: Dr. Larry Arnn (President, Hillsdale College), Hugh Hewitt
Date: November 10, 2025
Main Theme:
A deep discussion of key events in the late 1930s as chronicled by Winston Churchill in "The Second World War," particularly the Spanish Civil War, British non-intervention, the Abdication Crisis of Edward VIII, and the broader implications for the troubling drift toward World War II.

Episode Overview

In this episode, Hugh Hewitt and Dr. Larry Arnn delve into Churchill’s reflections on the period leading up to World War II—focusing on the Spanish Civil War, Britain’s foreign policy traditions, the divisive Abdication Crisis of King Edward VIII, and how these shaped Churchill’s position and the fate of Europe. They also frame these historical moments in the context of today’s challenges in leadership and governance.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Current Events & Their Historical Resonance

• The episode begins with a brief discussion of American political turbulence and recent elections, followed by observations about Tucker Carlson’s controversial interview and the importance of challenging dangerous ideas directly (00:31–03:22).
• Quote: “Stalin and Hitler are in a very brisk competition with Mao for worst people of the 20th century.”
  — Hugh Hewitt (02:24)
• Dr. Arnn reflects on how fascism and extremism were engaged in Churchill’s Britain—a segue to Churchill’s dealings with homegrown fascists like Oswald Mosley.
  Quote: “Oswald was confined to quarters...there’s a system called rule...They could arrest people for subverting the war effort.”
  — Dr. Larry Arnn (03:37–03:51)
• Analyses of current American polarization, likening today’s partisan divides to the sharper cleavages of 1930s Europe (05:15–07:47).

2. Britain’s Foreign Policy Tradition (07:47–10:31)

• Churchill’s summary of 400 years of British foreign policy: always opposing the dominant continental power (e.g., against Spain, France, Germany).
• Dr. Arnn applies Churchill’s logic to America’s global role today, warning against over-extension and stressing alliance management for national benefit.
  • Quote: “If you look for some efficient friends who will be durable and can contribute...then you might be able to run your foreign policy more successfully and cheaply.”
    — Dr. Larry Arnn (09:28)
  • Relevance to the US and the growing challenge from China.
• Both hosts stress that the purpose of national security is individual liberty, not imperial ambition.

3. The Spanish Civil War & British Neutrality (12:49–16:51)

• In-depth explanation of Britain’s choice not to intervene in Spain, despite Hitler and Stalin’s involvement via proxies.
  • Britain and Churchill both remained neutral, partly from overload and because both Hitler and Stalin were seen as repugnant forces.
  • Notably, Franco, although aided by Hitler, stayed neutral in WWII—a strategic boon for Britain.
  • George Orwell’s role as a disillusioned anti-fascist is briefly mentioned.
  • Quote: “Franco was not really a Nazi...it becomes a terrible frustration to Hitler that Franco remained neutral and didn’t help him.”
    — Dr. Larry Arnn (13:50)
  • The confusion and danger of forming alliances in such a volatile environment is emphasized.

4. The Abdication Crisis of Edward VIII (17:29–25:40)

• Background: King Edward VIII abdicated to marry Wallis Simpson, an American divorcee—a scandal that rocked Britain in 1936.
• Churchill supported Edward, mistakenly judging both the public mood and Edward’s character, which damaged his political capital at a crucial time.
  • Quote: “Churchill just got completely outmaneuvered and made, in my opinion, gross mistakes here...he trusted Edward. Edward turned out to be...a Nazi sympathizer later.”
    — Dr. Larry Arnn (18:03)
• Edward’s later actions in Europe (associating with Nazi agents) and Churchill’s stern rebuke as Prime Minister, including the episode where Churchill ordered Edward to his post as Governor of the Bahamas, are recounted.
  • Notable Moment: Churchill’s letter to Edward invoking military discipline and summoning him to a post—showcasing Churchill’s firm leadership (21:56).

Timestamps for Abdication Crisis Segment

• Edward VIII’s relationship with Wallis Simpson: 17:29–18:07
• Churchill’s miscalculation and loyalty to Edward: 18:07–20:41
• Churchill’s later letter to the Duke of Windsor: 20:41–22:16
• Social, religious, and political reasons for abdication: 22:16–23:33

5. The Importance of Monarchy, Tradition, and Symbolism (27:42–32:34)

• Dr. Arnn explains the enduring traditions of the British monarchy—how ceremonies like “kissing hands” and the “Black Rod” in Parliament connect the nation with its history.
• Israel’s lack of such traditions is discussed, highlighting the potential stabilizing power of constitutional rituals.
  • Quote: “The abolition of the monarchy in Britain would be devastating to Britain. And it’s not impossible.”
    — Dr. Larry Arnn (32:10)

6. Churchill’s Low Point and the Missed Opportunity to Stop Hitler (32:34–36:59)

• After the abdication crisis, Churchill’s influence dropped to “zero,” crippling his efforts to rally Britain to action against Hitler’s provocations.
  • Quote: “My influence had fallen to zero. It takes a certain statesmanlike quality to be able to assess yourself that candidly...”
    — Hugh Hewitt (32:34)
• 1935 as the year of missed opportunity—when the Allies could have resisted Hitler with relative ease; by the time action was seriously considered, the situation had drastically worsened.
• Dr. Arnn stresses that revisionists blaming Churchill for failing to stop the war are simply ignorant of chronology: Churchill was sidelined when he was most needed.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Engaging Extremists:

• “Nothing wrong with talking with them, but you ought to fight them.”
  — Dr. Larry Arnn (02:36)

On Foreign Policy:

• “If you go trying to settle the whole world and dominate the whole world, you’ll spend endless money and never get it done.”
  — Dr. Larry Arnn (09:20)

On Political Symbolism:

• “Their job was to be a family now...If they reign but don’t rule, then they are a symbol. And they’re not an unimportant symbol.”
  — Dr. Larry Arnn (23:56)

On Churchill’s Self-awareness:

• “My influence had fallen to zero.”
  — Winston Churchill (as quoted by Hugh Hewitt, 32:34)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Opening & Current Affairs: 00:31–07:47
• British Foreign Policy Tradition: 07:47–12:29
• Spanish Civil War: 12:49–16:51
• Abdication Crisis & Churchill’s Mistake: 17:29–25:40
• Parliamentary & Monarchical Tradition: 27:42–32:34
• Churchill’s Political Eclipse & Missed Opportunity: 32:34–36:59

Conclusion

This episode provides an insightful window into the interplay between personal loyalty, statesmanship, and national destiny through Churchill’s dilemmas and decisions. It underscores the role of tradition, the dangers of appeasement, and the tragic costs of political miscalculation on the brink of war—all woven together in the lively, erudite banter that is a hallmark of the Hillsdale Dialogues.

Next Episode Teaser:
Dr. Arnn and Hugh Hewitt promise to explore how Churchill rebuilt his stature and eventually spearheaded Britain’s rearmament and resistance to Hitler, highlighting his unlikely alliances and relentless dedication to national readiness.

[For a full archive of episodes, visit hillsdale.edu or hughforhillsdale.com.]