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- [00:05]
Announcer
Every week, Hillsdale College president Larry Arne joins Hugh Hewitt to discuss great books, great men and great ideas. This is Hillsdale Dialogues, part of the Hillsdale College Podcast Network. More episodes at Podcast Hillsdale. Edu or wherever you find your audio.
- [00:30]
Hugh Hewitt
Morning Gloria and Evening Grace America. That music means it's time for the Hillsdale Dialogue, the last radio hour of the week. And that means Dr. Larry Arn is back with us from Hillsdale College. Dr. Arne, of course, is the president of Hillsdale. All things Hillsdale can be found@hillsdale.edu and all of our dialogues are found@hughforhillsdale.com we will turn to Winston Churchill's My Early Life, which is a rip roaring good read of a book, next week. But since Dr. Arne has been away for a couple of weeks, I wanted to welcome him back by covering recent events. By the way, Dr. Arne, Wilford Maclay is just a gem. I'll bet you you have to fight students to get them to take your class and not his.
- [01:13]
Dr. Larry Arne
Yeah, but I have power. Yeah, no, he's a show pony. He's really great. He wrote this. He's made many great achievements in his life, but one of them is after 30 years or 40 years of friends of ours talking about how we need a good textbook on American history. Darned if he didn't up and write one. And it's just, it's called Land of Hope. And it's just tremendous.
- [01:40]
Hugh Hewitt
That's what we spent our time last week talking about. And to the extent I am able, I'm going to try and persuade every teacher in America that this is the right objective, but not neutral. That's his phrase, objective. He's not neutral about his country, but he's very objective about how he got here. And I think he handles pretty much everything, including complex things like the Compromise of 1850 with wit, wisdom, and the succinct ability to lay out the key facts.
- [02:12]
Dr. Larry Arne
Yeah, it's a tremendous, the quality of the book is, first of all, it's a kind of thing, right. Something you should read if you don't know much about it, if you want to know more. And so what it provides is a guide to further study, but also a great grasp of the structure of American history and the issues in it and the major things that happened. So it's just awesome.
- [02:37]
Hugh Hewitt
I'll make one more comment on that and then move back to current events. I told Professor Maclay the law, constitutional law, is now increasingly a function of history and tradition in America. And of course, my Law students are products of American education. Some of them know a little. A lot of them don't know anything. So they have to read Dr. Maclay while they're reading Marbury v. Madison, write through yesterday's decisions. You know, you can't do anything now unless you're able to anchor it into history and tradition because the Scalia approach and the Thomas approach have triumphed in large part. And a lot of lawyers in America are wandering around wondering what the heck they missed in law school because they don't teach it in law school.
- [03:18]
Dr. Larry Arne
Yeah, you know, there's a we're in the second term and the seniors are getting ready to leave. And so we're having capstone course. And one of the things that's interesting to them is they have to put together the story of what they've learned, which is, you know, everything into a structure. And so, you know, you can't understand the Constitution without understanding its structure and its story. And both are riveting stories and we don't study them much anymore.
- [03:45]
Hugh Hewitt
All right, let me move on to catch up on the event. Since you've been gone for three weeks in our sympathies on the loss of your sister, you've experienced sudden loss. So have I. David Allen White passed away a couple weeks ago. Another friend of mine who I mentioned, Brian, the bankrupt Maine, died suddenly. It's just part of life, but it's not easy to deal with.
- [04:04]
Dr. Larry Arne
No, my sister died among her children and happy and she lived a great life and we miss her. And you know, she came to California with me when I went on the great adventure of going to graduate school instead of law school. And she met her husband, one of my best friends, that way. And so our stories are intertwined.
- [04:27]
Hugh Hewitt
I didn't know that. I hope your brother in law is grieving. You know, everybody's got to grieve. But you can grieve with your family. It's a lot easier to do.
- [04:37]
Dr. Larry Arne
Doctor, she was grieving him.
- [04:40]
Hugh Hewitt
Oh, really?
- [04:41]
Dr. Larry Arne
He was grieving? Yeah, she was grieving him.
- [04:44]
Hugh Hewitt
That's not. Well, they're together. Let me ask you about your impressions of the speed with which Donald Trump is moving and the appointees he is bringing along with him.
- [04:56]
Dr. Larry Arne
Well, it's both breathtaking and thrilling. It's the thing we have to do. It's not going to be easy. But to start with, we're having a debate now for the first time in my lifetime as the center of public debate about what kind of government should we have because we've got two kinds now. And one kind is the bureaucratic kind, and it makes rules and agencies we can't number, let alone name. And the other is the constitutional kind, which should be decentralized. Most laws should be local and state. And this central kind is not working. There's a breakdown. And I believe this. I believe that just as the American Revolution happened, at the moment it had to happen. Events made it necessary to do something dramatic, either submit to Britain or declare independence. And so the Civil War, the same thing. We either had to extend slavery or we had to restrict it because we were trying to settle the Western lands and people were fighting out there. And so this thing is like that, too, because the country is in very bad financial shape. And we can fix it by conscripting additional resources into the government, understanding that it's already controlling about half, or we can make the government economize. And that's hard duty. And they're doing it.
- [06:20]
Hugh Hewitt
I'm going to talk about Doge and Elon Musk in the next segment. I want to focus on a small thing, but an important thing. This week I wrote a column for Fox News after Wednesday's announcement that the White House press pool would no longer be controlled by the White House Correspondents Association. Now, I provided some context in that column. The press room, the James Brady Press Room, was named as such in 2000 for President Reagan's press secretary who was shot in the head during the assassination attempt. The press room didn't exist until 1970. The White House Correspondence association didn't exist in 1914, and the West Wing, in which the Oval Office and the Press Room are both located, didn't exist until 1904. There is nothing in the Constitution about a White House Press Correspondents Association. There is freedom of the press. But the Guild is upset, Dr. R. They're very upset with Donald Trump. He is shattering Legacy Media's monopoly, and the Guild is upset. I'm thrilled. What do you think?
- [07:25]
Dr. Larry Arne
I think it's funny. First of all, it's a microcosm of the whole debate, right?
- [07:30]
Hugh Hewitt
Yes. Yes, it is.
- [07:34]
Dr. Larry Arne
It either means you can write what you want to, or it means that privileged people decide who gets access. It means one of those two things. And if it means the first thing, the Associated Press is not harmed at all. If it means the second thing, then sure enough, this press agency you're talking about, they have lost what they think is a right, but in fact has been a privilege.
- [07:59]
Hugh Hewitt
That's it. It's a privilege. And they abused it, by the way, because nine out of 10 people in that room are left of center. Almost 99 out of 100 come from legacy media. If they're sitting in the first three rows and they've used it to advance their economic interests and they've lost audience, it's not that they have that. That seat that they succeed. It's that because they succeeded in the past they had that seat, but they're no longer succeeding because they're no longer doing what they used to do.
- [08:32]
Dr. Larry Arne
You know, there are three graduates of Hillsdale College who go to those briefings, and so far as I know, they've not been denied access.
- [08:42]
Hugh Hewitt
They're not complaining either, because they're grown ups. I imagine they know that they earn their reputations by the quality of their work, not the access they enjoy. But for way too long, it's been the access you enjoy that determine the pay scale on which you advance. Dr. Arn, the journalism program at Hillsdale College, I want to give it a shout out. We need more people coming out of John Miller's program and Scott's program because journalists have fallen on hard times.
- [09:12]
Dr. Larry Arne
Yeah, well, there's more opportunity for journalists than there's ever been. And there's lots of jobs. Right. And, you know, our forte is, you know, when it comes to education, direct education is quality more than quantity. And we have, you know, I think the last time I counted, there were eight or 10 Hillsdale graduates working at the Wall Street Journal. They're all over the place. And that's, you know, delicious and great. And they conduct themselves, as a rule, responsibly. They've learned what the standards of truth are and they try to pursue it. That's what journalists are supposed to do.
- [09:49]
Hugh Hewitt
You know, it's very annoying, though. Jack Butler presumes to edit me when I send something in in National Review that. That's very annoying when the youngsters from Hillsdale who were my interns and your students presume to edit me. I mean, do you. Are you annoyed by that? Has that happened yet? Dare they edit you?
- [10:06]
Dr. Larry Arne
Yes. Yesterday, Michael Lucchese at the Federalist. No, at Law and Liberty, a graduate edited me. And I thought, who are you?
- [10:17]
Hugh Hewitt
That's what I know. We should. The revolution is coming. There's a counter revolution coming. Don't go anywhere, America. Dr. Arnold will be right back. We're talking about Doge and Elon Musk right after this on the U. Hewitt Show. The Hillsdale dialogue underway. All things Hillsdale at Hillsdale.
- [10:31]
Announcer
Eduardo.
- [10:33]
Eduardo
Hillsdale College is a small Christian classical liberal arts college that operates independently of government funding, and we want you or your son or daughter to apply. At Hillsdale, students grow in heart and mind by studying timeless truths in a supportive community dedicated to the highest things. Hillsdale College costs significantly less than other nationally ranked private liberal arts colleges and receives regular recognition for as a best value. And nearly all students receive financial aid. Our robust core curriculum, vibrant student life and 8 to 1 student to faculty ratio make for an education like no other. For more information or to fill out an application, visit Hillsdale eduinfo. That's Hillsdale. Edu Info.
- [11:30]
Announcer
Hey there, it's Scott Bertram, host of the Radio Free Hillsdale Hour. Anniversaries play a key role in this week's episode. We start with Mark Moyer, William P. Harris, chair of Military History at Hillsdale College. We discuss the legacy and the lessons learned from the Vietnam War 50 years after the fall of Saigon. Meanwhile, the Great Gatsby turns 100 this year. Benedict Whalen from our English department joins us to discuss the themes in that book. And Julianne Hillock, founding principal at hojo Academy in New Mexico, talks to us about the unique challenges of running a school in a remote part of the country, plus being honored by the Hillsdale College Alumni Association. All that this week on the Radio Free Hillsdale Hour. Find it at podcast Hillsdale. Edu or wherever you get your audio.
- [12:39]
Hugh Hewitt
Welcome back, America. I'm Hugh Hewitt. The hilltale dialogue is underway. Next week we're getting into My Early Life, Winston Churchill's rollicking great memoir that Dr. Arne thought we ought to do. So do not miss next I think it's going to be six episodes in order to do it justice. So episode one will be next week. Dr. Arn is with me this week. All things Hillsdale at Hillsdale. Edu. All of our dialogue, including Last week's with Dr. Maclay, are collected at HughForHillsdale.com as well as the video courses. Other links you can sign up for imprimis. You can donate to Hillsdale. You can get an application if you wish to be a Hillsdale. And Dr. Arnt, Elon, Musk and Doge. I want to preface this by saying many of our friends on the right are exercised about this because he holds no formal title and they, like most of the country, are used to the administrative state and I'm a product of it. After I got to know you and after I went to law school, I ended up working in the administrative state. I ran the Office of Personnel Management for a while. I was its general counsel for a Couple of years. Then its deputy director and acting director. It's a nightmare. The administrative state is a nightmare. It's bigger than anyone could possibly understand. So Elon Musk has gone in like Jason and the Argonauts, to deal with the hydra, and the hydra fight back, and the hydra's got allies. What do you make about this?
- [14:06]
Dr. Larry Arne
It's wonderful. Elon Musk is. Is a special government employee, which is a status in the civil service. There are rules governing it. I think you can work for 130 full days a year. You don't get paid. The days don't have to be consecutive. It can be renewed. And he's been appointed by the President of the United States, which the president has complete power to do. And, you know, Donald Trump, he prides himself on running the most transparent administration. They are. Trump himself talks about it all the time. And, you know, Elon, maybe his recent worst outrage, there's one every day, was he sent an email to the federal employees saying, summarize for us five things you accomplished last week. And they're just outraged to be asked to do that. And many of them are rebelling. And, you know, why should we have to give a list to somebody? And, you know, that's just wowie.
- [15:09]
Hugh Hewitt
You know, I heard one said employee objecting. I believe it was on MSNBC that she was angry. This was not the right of opm, that she answered to her supervisor, and her supervisor answered to their supervisor, and their supervisor answered to their head of agency or secretary. They apparently have never read the Constitution. Constitution, Article 2. There is one executive branch. Its leader is the president, and the president can do whatever he wants concerning accountability. Now, there are civil service protections. They are in law. Some of them are constitutional. Some of them are not. But the idea that accountability, that answering an email is somehow outside the bounds of it, speaks to actually constitutional literacy. Dr. Wright, I really do think most of the people writing about this have no idea what the unitary executive is.
- [16:06]
Dr. Larry Arne
Yeah, well, the first words are in Article 2. The executive power shall be vested in. That means all of it, Right? That means they don't exercise any authority that doesn't come through the president from the people. And this whole. We're having a debate, I just. I just find it completely delicious. What is an independent agency? I know a guy who was high up in the FBI. He's retired now. He's a good guy. And I talked to him one time, and just at the end, we didn't talk about the FBI, but just in the end, I said, I Hope you're not mixed up in all that mess. And I meant all that political intervention they've done. And he said, I'm just trying to keep the agency independent. And I said, independent of what?
- [16:54]
Hugh Hewitt
Of what?
- [16:54]
Dr. Larry Arne
And he stopped. He's a very good guy. And he said, you know, I don't know if I've ever been asked that question before.
- [17:01]
Hugh Hewitt
Well, you just got to the nabi. The nabi. President Trump put out an executive order last week on so called independent agencies. And I discussed it with Andy McCarthy, who's not a Trump fan, but is a solid conservative and lawyer. And he. And I agree there ain't no such thing. Now, the Congress best lecture I ever heard, which is hard to say, but it was, was the wonderful and remarkable James Q. Wilson, who, in the first lecture I ever heard, educated me on the founding of the Interstate Commerce Commission in the late 19th century. It's gone now. It's been folded in the Department of Transportation. It was about railroads. Now that seems pretty dry, but he made it pretty interesting because he was James Q. Wilson and he was a brilliant man. And, and it turns out that was radical. And once you let one radical thing go forward, a second follows and a third. And we got dozens of them now. And they exist by delegation of Congress, which ought not to be delegating its power. And the President signed it. So they live in this gray area. And what Trump's forcing is a constitutional challenge. That's what he's forcing.
- [18:10]
Dr. Larry Arne
That's right. And ultimately that won't be in the hands of the Supreme Court. That'll be in the hands of the people of the United States, because they can affect everything over time. But you know, look at it this way. These arguments, usually late 19th century, the progressivism. Progressivism was born and beginning to grow. And the Interstate Commerce Commission is one of its first acts. And its argument, you can compare the two arguments precisely in this way. There's a man named James Landis, and he wrote that these permanent civil servants would have guaranteed salaries and could not be dismissed, and therefore they would have no interest contrary to doing their jobs. And that's a claim. Right. And then there's the claim in the 51st Federalist that we need controls on the government because men are not angels and angels do not govern men. So compare those two quotes. Landis is effectively saying that they will be beyond human interest and failing. But are they? Because, I mean, the doge every day is publishing something that's outrageous. You know, 6%, the occupancy rate of federal buildings in and around Washington, D.C. is 6%. They don't go to work and they're outraged that they're demanded to go to work. And you know, that's of whom are they independent and upon whom do they depend?
- [19:42]
Hugh Hewitt
Let me ask you, Dr. Ryan, since you know the framing as well as anyone, do you think that any of the framers, from the most ardent Federalist, Hamilton to the most doctrinaire small government, Democrat, Republican, Jefferson, would any of them recognize the federal city?
- [20:01]
Dr. Larry Arne
No. And you know, so to read the constitutional debates, you know, the Federalist is part of them, an important part of them. And then there's the Antifederalist Papers. And the Antifederalists complained about the Constitution, that it was too much federal control. And the Federalists, you know, who are rhetorically very brilliant, right, they adopted the name Federalist for themselves, although they were for a stronger central government, but they defended it on the ground that it is a government of enumerated powers and every power in it will be dependent upon the will of the great body of the people. It's a quote from the Federalist. And so there's no, I mean this fierce argument about the size of government, nobody like what we've got today.
- [20:50]
Hugh Hewitt
And that is cannot be repeated often enough. We repeat it a lot here on the Hillsville Dialogue. It's repeated in the course on Progressivism. By the way, at Hillsdale. Edu, there are a lot of great courses on the Constitution on Progressivism and all of the prior Hillsdale dialogues are collected at you for hillsdale.com I'll be right back. We're going to move on to Ukraine and Israel. Stay tuned.
- [21:15]
Announcer
Hey there, it's Scott Bertram, host of the Radio Free Hillsdale Hour. Anniversaries play a key role in this week's episode. We we start with Mark Moyer, William P. Harris, chair of Military History at Hillsdale College. We discuss the legacy and the lessons learned from the Vietnam War 50 years after the fall of Saigon. Meanwhile, the Great Gatsby turns 100 this year. Benedict Whelan from our English department joins us to discuss the themes in that book. And Julianne Hillock, founding principal at Pozo Academy in New Mexico, talks to us about the unique challenges of running a school in a remote part of the country, plus being honored by the Hillsdale College Alumni Association. All that this week on the Radio Free Hillsdale Hour. Find it at podcast hillsdale. Edu or wherever you get your audio.
- [22:14]
Mark Levin
Hello America. I'm thrilled, thrilled to announce my new 10 part podcast series, Liberty and Learning with Mark Levin and Larry Arne. Join me and my dear friend Dr. Larry Arne, President of Hillsdale College, as we dive deep into the founding principles of our great nation. In these challenging times, understanding our history and the ideals of self government is more crucial than ever. We'll explore the core of America's current crises, the changes in our government and what it means for our lives and liberties. From education to borders, citizenship to the separation of powers, we'll cover it all. Tune in to Liberty and Learning with Mark Levin and Larry Arne of Hillsdale College. So subscribe now and join us on this wonderful journey to rediscover the principles that made America the freest, most prosperous nation in history. Don't miss it.
- [23:02]
Announcer
Listen right now to Liberty and Learning with Mark Levin and Larry Arne@podcast.hillsdale.edu. that's podcast, hillsdale.edu, or wherever you find your audio.
- [23:25]
Hugh Hewitt
Welcome back, America. The Hillsdale Dialogue is underway. Hugh for hillsdale.com, all the prior dialogue, everything hillsdale is at hillsdale. Edu. If you want to get involved in the life of the college, start with imprimis, come for imprimis, stay for everything else. Dr. Arn before we move on to Ukraine and Israel in the next segment, I want to ask you a very simple question. The GOP is dominated today by Donald Trump more than the GOP has ever in my lifetime been dominated by a single individual. And I go back to 1968 and vaguely, and I'm aware of 1972, but I don't get to vote till 1976. So let's say from 1976 to this point, and that includes the Reagan years. It's just Trump runs the GOP in a way that the GOP has never been run. Is that A, true, and B, is it good?
- [24:19]
Dr. Larry Arne
Well, Lincoln, my lifetime.
- [24:22]
Hugh Hewitt
Your lifetime, yeah.
- [24:25]
Dr. Larry Arne
Yeah. Well, what Trump has done is showed them away, right? He steered them. He and events, by the way, have steered them onto the ground of a fundamental debate. And everybody's got to choose, and they're choosing. And that's why he's strong. I mean, he's as you know, a reasonably confident man and also not without qualities of assertion. And so there's that, but there's also the fact that he has isolated the thing that we have to figure out and he's working on it, Right. And so they got to choose now. And so, you know, it's not, it's not uniform. It's not a consensus. But the weight of the Republican Party has shifted toward Him. And I believe and argue that the weight of the American people has shifted toward him.
- [25:20]
Hugh Hewitt
Now, the interesting bit of evidence is that for six weeks, we're concluding six weeks, everybody said the House couldn't pass one big beautiful bill because the majority is so narrow they could only lose one member. And in fact, this week, they passed the budget. They lost Thomas Massie of Kentucky. So they passed it with one vote to spare. If they'd lost a second vote, the budget wouldn't have passed. Now it's passed, the House goes to the Senate. It will be reconciled. I think the Senate should just buy it. Nobody thought that was possible. And anybody who says they thought so is lying. Hats off to Speaker Johnson, Leader Scalise and every member. They're acting like a party Dr. Arn, and I've never seen that either.
- [26:05]
Dr. Larry Arne
Yeah, yeah. I'm glad it passed. And I'm also glad for Mr. Massey, who, you know, is a brilliant guy. He's an engineer, he's a little government guy, and he's there to be a conscience. And so I'm glad that they had that one vote spare they needed. And I'm glad that he made the points he made, because it is true. There's too much spending in this bill, and we got to work ourselves out of that. And that's the best that could be done now. And it's good.
- [26:37]
Hugh Hewitt
But, you know, they get, if they do it in one big, beautiful bill, they get a second reconciliation budget process this year. Senator Thune has been on this program, good friends and program, said, let's go with two. Let's do the easy stuff first, get some big wins, and then we'll do the tax bill later. Well, then come back and do a Doge bill later. Now, they can do a lot of cuts later with a simple majority. So they still have that second six shooter in their holster. And I'm probably condemned for using violent imagery, but they get to fire a second round.
- [27:14]
Dr. Larry Arne
It's true. And we should remember this is hard for the Congress. Right, because the Congress has taken up, under the influence of the Progressive Era, a whole new line of work. They don't do what they used to do. Now they're sort of ombudsman, extending what control they can into individual agencies that report to committees. And the truth is the President's supposed to run all that, and they're supposed to legislate, which is simple general laws, few in number, that settle matters of principle and matters of the purse. And so they should go back to that. And maybe they're learning to and I hope so.
- [27:56]
Hugh Hewitt
I think they can go back and shutter the Department of Education. They can go back and shutter the Department of Labor. They can go back and do a lot of things within six months. Now, if they pass the House budget, do you think they'll have the gumption to do so?
- [28:11]
Dr. Larry Arne
I hope so. I've been spending some time on that question of the Department of Education and favor its closing as I resisted its opening back in 79 and it's just such a wrong thing and the case is so clear. I, I looked it up and if Grok3 is to be believed and also chat g I looked it up in three search engines because I don't want to pour over list of bureaucrats. There are 11 million people working in public education and more than half of them are not teachers or teachers.
- [28:47]
Hugh Hewitt
Wow. We'll come back to it. In fact, we got to come back to a lot. Ukraine, Israel and those 11 million people. Stand by America. The Hillsdale dialogue continues. Welcome back, America. I'm Hugh hughes. You had Dr. Larry Arn as my guest. The Hilltail Dialogue underway. Dr. Arne we don't know what's going to happen with Ukraine. We don't know what Israel's going to do with Gaza. But we know on the former Donald Trump has upset a lot of people and on the latter, he said whatever Israel does is fine by me. What do you make of these two major world conflicts that he inherited from a hapless leaderless Biden administration?
- [29:33]
Dr. Larry Arne
Yeah, we so here's an utmost particular that's very hard to judge. There's some people, I read the Daily Telegraph and that's a British paper and my wife is English. And so there you go. I keep up. Some of them, they're divided. Some of them think that Russia is just at the point of collapse if we would keep on a bit. And others of them think that they're stronger than they were before. David Goldman, who's in authority with me, believes that Eric Prince, that I did a podcast one believes that.
- [30:05]
Hugh Hewitt
But Russia is as strong. You mean Russia is stronger than they've ever been?
- [30:09]
Dr. Larry Arne
Yeah. Well, in this war.
- [30:11]
Hugh Hewitt
In this war.
- [30:12]
Dr. Larry Arne
And they're, you know, and it's a new kind of war, by the way. Enormous things that are consequential have been discovered in the war, like wars are going to be fought with drones and big heavy weapons are very vulnerable. We have a monopoly or a superiority in those big heavy weapons. But are they worth much anymore? There's tuition in this fight. We've Been paying tuition, too. So what I think is it's implausible to me that Ukraine can win the war completely. And the reasons are Russia has old interests there, from 1760s sometime, when the Crimea became their naval base in the Black Sea. And they have an interest in a land connection to that. And some of that, the most direct one, goes through Ukraine. And there's a lot of Russian speakers between Crimea and Russia proper. The war has been costly for Russia, and they are suffering. Could it have been avoided? I know people who are much better experts than I on this who say that going back to 2014, if we had done different things, that we could have avoided all this. And it's so, it's, you know, it's a mess, and Trump is an inherited mess. I'm not confident that any kind of good deal can be got, but some kind of deal probably could be, and Trump is working for that, trying to get that.
- [31:48]
Hugh Hewitt
I agree. And I also, because we did that long series on World War I, on Winston Churchill's the World Crisis, we have a glimpse of the kind of fighting that's going on and the futility of it. I mean, that's what I'm aware, is that it is futile to throw hundreds of thousands of men over the trenches at each other. It really is just an absolute waste of the most precious thing in the world, which is human life. So I would like it to end, but on terms that do not require the dismemberment of Ukraine proper. And by the way, I always point out, Crimea was given to Ukraine by Khrushchev in 1956. There's a Crimean War in the 19th century, and it was everyone against Russia. And so it's just. You make that point again and again. I like to make that point. That's not true of Ukraine, but it is true of Crimea.
- [32:38]
Dr. Larry Arne
See, Khrushchev gave Ukraine the Crimea at the time when the Soviet Union owned Ukraine.
- [32:44]
Hugh Hewitt
Right.
- [32:45]
Dr. Larry Arne
Did he really give it to him? Yeah. And. And that, you know, that history. Right. And you. You would. And see, we. We have done. We and NATO, the European countries especially, have done this bad thing. We have blustered when we're weak. And that's dangerous.
- [33:04]
Hugh Hewitt
Very.
- [33:04]
Dr. Larry Arne
Right. That's, you know, we make big demands. You know, we. We use the umbrella of NATO, which is a threat that Russians apparently fear as a fail safe. Right, but is it a fail safe?
- [33:17]
Hugh Hewitt
Well, that brings me to the second question. Hamas blustered and in fact, invaded when it turns out that they are weak relative to Israel. And 17 months and a horrible cost to the Israelis and to Gazans who did not want the war, however many they might be. Hezbollah has been crippled to the point of irrelevance. The Syrian dictator is gone, Hamas has destroyed, Gaza's in rubble and Iran is naked. We have a minute. Do you think Israel is going to finish off Hamas?
- [33:48]
Dr. Larry Arne
I hope so. I heard a great talk at one of our conferences lately and the man said, he mentioned a criteria, additional criteria for choosing allies. We need allies, right. They should be capable of patrolling the area in which they are and keep the worst things from happening. That makes Israel a fabulous ally. And I think they're, you know, I, I wish that they had used drilling technology to flood the tunnels. The aforementioned Eric Prince took some oil guys down there and told them how to do it. And we can drill horizontally now for miles. And if we drilled in there and flooded those tunnels with seawater, they would have had to bring the hostages up because that's their asset, which they're milking, by the way. Cruelty and torture to the last ounce. And you know, in other words, there might have been an even more elegant way to go about it than Israel has gone about it. Although the pagers is a heck of a thing.
- [34:44]
Hugh Hewitt
Yeah, the IDF is a learning machine. And what they're learning is going to, I think, put Hamas down for good by the end of next month. We will see. I'll be right back with Dr. Ahn for the final segment of today's Hillsdale Dialogue. Stay tuned. This show is a part of the.
- [35:00]
Announcer
Hillsdale College Podcast Network. If you like what you hear, please subscribe to your favorite.
- [35:07]
Hugh Hewitt
You'll get brand new episodes of all.
- [35:09]
Announcer
Your favorite shows sent right to your device. And you'll help us know that you're out there listening. Never miss another episode by going to podcast hillsdale.edu subscribe.
- [35:24]
Hugh Hewitt
That's podcast Hillsdale.
- [35:26]
Announcer
Edu subscribe or click the Follow or subscribe button on Apple podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Hey there, it's Scott Bertram, host of the Radio Free Hillsdale Hour. Anniversaries play a key role in this week's episode. We start with Mark Moyer, William P. Harris, chair of Military history at Hillsdale College. We discuss the legacy and the lessons learned from the Vietnam War 50 years after the fall of war Civil Saigon. Meanwhile, the Great Gatsby turns 100 this year. Benedict Whelan from our English department joins us to discuss the themes in that book. And Julianne Hillock, founding principal at Hojo Academy in New Mexico, talks to us about the unique challenges of running a school in a remote part of the country, plus being honored by the Hillsdale College Alumni Association. All that this week on the radio, free Hillsdale Hour. Find it at podcast hillsdale. Edu, or wherever you get your audio.
- [36:49]
Hugh Hewitt
Welcome back, America. It's good to have Dr. Arne back. Dr. Larry Arne is president of Hillsdale College, the lantern of the North. All things hillsdalesdale Edu, including application, get involved with the college, take their online courses. All the prior Hillsdale dialogues are collected at hueforhillsdale.com Hillsdale Cruise by the way, we're going off on a cruise beginning in Portugal and ending up in London towards the end of May. And for the first couple of weeks in June, I'm going to be aboard that ship. Go look up Hillsdale cruise. Dr. I wanted to conclude with one big question. Lots of people are giving lots of opinion on Donald Trump. Vice President Vance, what's happening here? What's happening there? I actually resist that because I'm aware that it takes some time to have a good idea of how long it will require to judge an administration. How long do you think until we have meaningful metrics by which to judge Donald Trump Term two?
- [37:43]
Dr. Larry Arne
Well, the midterms is a big event coming up and, you know, our friend Brian Westbury has me worried about the economy and I'm worried about war. I don't predict smooth sailing. I think the hardest things are still before him, but he's doing the right thing. And that itself is revolutionary. You know, Churchill liked to say the Americans will always do the right thing after they've tried everything else. Yeah, we're at the end of everything else now. Now we're trying the right thing. And I think one should be optimistic. If you believe in our country, you believe that these arguments are going to prevail and there's going to be fierce opposition and difficulty from events. And I think they're going to keep at it and do a pretty good job.
- [38:33]
Hugh Hewitt
You know, we mentioned already the hundred day metric is ridiculous. It's made up because FDR had super majorities in both the House and the Senate and a depression. However, Donald Trump's going to have the budget, which nobody thought he was going to have and who knows what else. So he's already kind of beat that, that number.
- [38:52]
Dr. Larry Arne
I mean, he's, he is firing bureaucrats. A year ago, nobody thought that was possible. And you know, come to find out it is. And they there's a guy named Russ Vogt who's the head of the office Management Budget and he's he's a tremendous man, and I suspect that he has figured a lot of this out and he's been thinking about it for years and in touch with the scholarship about it, which has been going on for 50 years now, much of it by friends of mine, some of it by me. And they have just thought a lot of things through and they're very skillful and I hope they keep up.
- [39:29]
Hugh Hewitt
It's rolling out, and by the time we do another Current Events, which will be four weeks from now, probably, we will bring you up to speed on the 100 days of Donald Trump. Dr. Larry Aharon, good to have you back. I remind everyone Hillsdale Dialogues are found@hughforhillsdale.com hughforhillsdale.com and all things hillsdale at hillsdale. Edu. The cruise is at hillsdalecollegecruise.com hillsdalecollegecruise dot com don't think they have many cabins left, but if you want a rollick in good time with smart people, not me, but Dr. Arnold will be there and the people who support the college. I'll be there to be the least cool person in the room and the one who asks all the questions. Don't go anywhere other than Hillsdale College Cruise. Come back on Monday for the next two Hewitt shows.
- [40:21]
Announcer
Thanks for listening to the Hillsdale Dialogues, part of the Hillsdale College Podcast Network. More episode episodes at Podcast Hillsdale. Edu or wherever you find your audio. For more information about Hillsdale College, head to Hillsdale.
- [40:38]
Hugh Hewitt
Eduardo.