Hillsdale Dialogues — "The Constitutional Crisis in Minneapolis"

Podcast: Hillsdale Dialogues
Host: Hugh Hewitt
Guest: Dr. Larry P. Arnn, President of Hillsdale College
Release Date: February 2, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode of the Hillsdale Dialogues features host Hugh Hewitt and Hillsdale College President Dr. Larry Arnn discussing global and national political crises, with a particular focus on recent turmoil in Minneapolis—described as a "constitutional crisis." The discussion moves from international affairs (notably Iran, Greenland, and China) to American constitutional principles, before deeply examining the unprecedented challenges posed by state actions in Minnesota, immigration policy, and the constitutional theory of nullification. The tone is thoughtful, occasionally indignant, and often historical, foregrounding both classical reasoning and contemporary urgency.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. International Overview: Iran's Massacre and the Modern Surveillance State

[00:30–10:15]

• Hewitt opens by likening the massacre in Iran to historic atrocities:
  • "The largest massacre since Babi Yar in 1941..." (00:30)
• Dr. Arnn contextualizes the regime’s brutality and suppression, comparing it to totalitarian regimes:
  • "There's apparently a great pent up energy for reform and they use brutal techniques to suppress it ... it's a terrorist regime..." (01:23)
• The evolution from ancient to modern tyranny:
  • Dr. Arnn distinguishes Iran’s theocratic regime: scientific surveillance, religious claims to absolute authority, and modern totalitarian tools:
    • "Modern tyranny has a twist ... scientific surveillance ... that's why we invented the name totalitarianism. They can watch everything now..." (04:09)
    • "Add in this pernicious understanding of the relation between religion and politics and you get comprehensive despotism." (05:35)
• U.S. response—President’s ambiguous approach:
  • Discussing why ambiguity is a strategic tool and recounting Trump’s surprising moves in Venezuela as a template for possible action on Iran.
    • "He's a negotiator ... leaves a lot of ambiguity ... these guys in Iran have got to be worried." (06:48)
• Restraint vs. regime change:
  • Dr. Arnn argues the aim is to "constrain" adversaries, not fix or transform them:
    • "He doesn't want to rule them ... he wants them to behave themselves ... he uses tools that place them in a bind and constrain their actions." (09:20)

2. The Geopolitics of Greenland

[12:58–18:17]

• Greenland’s strategic significance:
  • Hewitt prompts the history of submarine warfare and the geography's importance.
    • Dr. Arnn: "Greenland is strategically important ... every time there's ... in modern conditions more important ... our route to Europe and Europe's route to us." (13:49)
  • U.S. seeking permanent military and legal rights:
    • "One thing he's asking for is that they become permanent ... that we have a kind of semi sovereignty." (14:54)
• China as the primary global competitor:
  • Forward-deployed defense systems are seen as crucial against Chinese expansion and hypersonic threats.

3. Hemispheric Defense and the Secretary of State

[18:17–19:11]

• Marco Rubio as Secretary of State receives praise:
  • "It is a remarkable record he's got in one year in that job. He's very talented man." (18:31)
  • Emphasizes Cuban-American vigilance, especially regarding Cuba's proximity and China's ambitions.

4. U.S. Allies and Western Liberalism at Risk

[22:44–27:53]

• Distress with Canadian and European leadership:
  • Hewitt denounces a speech by Canada’s PM Carney in Davos, which equates the U.S. with China as global hegemons.
    • "He lumped us in as a hegemon with China ... I guess he's forgotten the Uyghurs. He's forgotten Hong Kong..." (22:44)
  • Dr. Arnn laments European and Canadian shifts toward illiberalism:
    • "Trump has adjusted the terms of trade ... and he's also pressing them about freedom. And they don't like it." (23:32)
• European Union’s attenuated democracy and China envy:
  • "They're an international class, those rulers in Brussels ... they censor what people say ... not entirely different from the way China is governed." (24:50)
• Belt and Road Initiative in Hungary:
  • Dr. Arnn recounts a Hungarian government official’s rationale for engaging with China’s economic initiatives:
    • "We have attracted the Belt and Road to Budapest ... Poland hasn't and they won't share the benefits." (26:19)

5. The Constitutional Crisis in Minneapolis

[27:53–37:49]

a) Social Strain and Violence

[27:53–30:36]

• Major Somali immigration to Minnesota, local upheaval:
  • Hewitt: "There was a massive infusion over the last 15 years into Minnesota of about 60 to 75,000 Somalians..." (27:53)
  • Dr. Arnn notes demographic, social, and cultural shifts, plus the organizational efforts behind protests and opposition to enforcement.
    • "There's an enormous organization behind this ... it does seem to be very well coordinated and organized." (30:36)

b) Breakdown of Federal-State Cooperation

[30:37–34:07]

• MN Governor Waltz's resistance to federal immigration enforcement:
  • "Waltz has not cooperated with the federal authorities ... in which he says the federal government places responsibility for immigration policy in a federal agency. We don't have any authority over it." (30:37)
• The Supremacy Clause reminder:
  • Hewitt: "The old supremacy clause and the commitment of all things immigration to the federal Government exclusively." (31:25)
• Organized resistance to ICE as dangerous precedent:
  • Hewitt: "They are pursuing ICE as though ICE were foreign invaders ... Minnesota's tipped over into chaos and chaos causes casualties." (32:15)
  • Dr. Arnn: "To have the official hostility of the local government makes the situation much more difficult." (32:55)

c) Historical Precedent—Nullification Theory

[34:08–37:49]

• Hewitt asks if local resistance compares to historical episodes.
  • "Have you ever ... remembered where state and local governments opposed the federal government in the exercise of a committed power to the federal government?" (33:20)
• Dr. Arnn draws direct line to 19th-century nullification and Civil Rights resistance:
  • "When was George Wallace in Alabama?" (33:43)
• The doctrine’s (non-)constitutional status:
  • "His claim was ... states could nullify a law by the federal government ... The trouble with that ... it doesn't say that. It says the opposite." (36:35)
  • "Tim Waltz doesn't make a blind bit of sense saying that the states can even resist efforts to enforce the federal law." (37:49)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On modern tyranny:
  "Modern tyranny has a twist ... scientific surveillance ... that's why we invented the name totalitarianism. They can watch everything now."
  —Dr. Larry Arnn [04:09]

• On strategic ambiguity:
  "He's a negotiator ... these guys in Iran have got to be worried, right? What's he going to do? Who knows what he's going to do?"
  —Dr. Larry Arnn [06:48]

• On constraint vs. regime change:
  "He just wants them to behave themselves. He doesn't want to take responsibility for democracy in Iran or anywhere else except the United States."
  —Dr. Larry Arnn [09:20]

• On the shift in alliances:
  "Trump has adjusted the terms of trade ... he's also pressing them about freedom. And they don't like it, Right. They like to control the Internet."
  —Dr. Larry Arnn [23:32]

• On the Belt and Road in Hungary:
  "We have attracted the Belt and Road to Budapest ... Poland hasn't, and they won't share the benefits."
  —Dr. Larry Arnn [26:19]

• On Minnesota's immigration crisis:
  "There's an enormous organization behind this ... it does seem to be very well coordinated and organized."
  —Dr. Larry Arnn [30:36]

• On the supremacy clause:
  "The old supremacy clause and the commitment of all things immigration to the federal Government exclusively."
  —Hugh Hewitt [31:25]

• On nullification doctrine:
  "His claim was it was a constitutional fact that states could nullify a law by the federal government ... The trouble with that ... it doesn't say that. It says the opposite."
  —Dr. Larry Arnn [36:35]

• On the absurdity of local resistance:
  "Tim Waltz doesn't make a blind bit of sense saying that the states can even resist efforts to enforce the federal law."
  —Dr. Larry Arnn [37:49]

Timestamps of Key Segments

• 00:30–10:15 — Iran’s massacre, totalitarianism, and modern surveillance
• 12:58–18:17 — The strategic importance of Greenland
• 22:44–27:53 — Critiques of Canada, the EU, and China as models for western ruling elites
• 27:53–37:49 — Minneapolis: Immigration, social breakdown, federal vs. state power, nullification theory

Episode Tone & Style

• Conversational, historical, and intellectually rigorous
• Dry humor and pointed analogies (e.g., "doesn't make a blind bit of sense")
• Key ideas supported by historical anecdotes and classical references

For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

• The Hillsdale Dialogues episode explores how classic constitutional principles are being tested by real-world crises, both abroad (Iran) and at home (Minneapolis).
• Dr. Arnn argues that Minnesota's local-state resistance to federal law recalls past constitutional crises—and that historical precedent and the Constitution itself provide little support for "nullification."
• International discussions (Iran, Greenland, China) provide context for America's unique position and the gravity of state defiance in Minneapolis.
• The episode warns that coordinated, organized opposition to federal immigration law in Minnesota may mark a true constitutional crisis not seen since the Civil Rights era.

For further exploration, listen to the full episode or review all Hillsdale Dialogues at HughForHillsdale.com or podcast.hillsdale.edu.