The Road to the American Revolution, Part Six

Summary

---

Hillsdale Dialogues Podcast

Episode: The Road to the American Revolution, Part Six

Date: October 7, 2025
Guests: Hugh Hewitt (host), Dr. Matt Spalding (Dean, Graduate School of Statesmanship, Hillsdale College, D.C.), brief remarks from Scott Bertram

---

Episode Overview

This episode continues the Hillsdale Dialogues’ in-depth exploration of the march toward the American Revolution, focusing on the pivotal period after the Battle of Bunker Hill (June 1775) and leading up to the spring of 1776. Dr. Matt Spalding and Hugh Hewitt discuss Washington’s military and moral leadership, organizational challenges facing the Continental Army, Congress’s complex political maneuvering, and the momentous shift from hopes for reconciliation to a state of open rebellion. The episode also includes insights into the philosophical interplay between the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, and a preview of Dr. Spalding’s forthcoming book, The Making of the American Mind.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dr. Matt Spalding’s New Book: The Making of the American Mind

• Overview and intent

  • Spalding describes the book as a detailed commentary on the Declaration of Independence, guiding readers paragraph by paragraph, and sometimes word by word, through its meaning and historical context (03:08).
  • “It’s really intended to get us into and to know the Declaration in some depth as to its own meaning and history.”
    — Matt Spalding (03:08)
  • The book aims to help Americans understand and appreciate the philosophical and historical underpinnings of the nation, echoing Lincoln's view that the Declaration is central to American identity.

• Book cover

  • The cover features a unique 19th-century French painting depicting debates over the Declaration, now part of the White House collection (02:20).

---

2. The Declaration vs. The Constitution: Foundational Insights

• Philosophical relationship

  • Spalding argues that the Declaration and Constitution are “two sides of a coin” (05:11), fundamentally connected, though not interchangeable.
  • The Declaration serves as the philosophical preamble to the legal framework of the Constitution.
  • “You need to put them together to get a true original understanding of the Founders’ intentions.”
    — Matt Spalding (06:43)
  • Debate discussed: Some legalists relegate the Declaration to a lesser role, but Spalding urges that both documents are complementary.

• Practical connections

  • Many constitutional grievances echo the complaints in the Declaration.
  • The Declaration informs, but does not override, the Constitution’s text.
  • “A lot in the Declaration can flow directly into the Constitution,” e.g., concepts of consent, legislative authority, and rights (07:35).

---

3. Washington’s Appointment and the State of the Army

• Washington’s experience

  • Washington’s prior military service in the French and Indian War made him the only serious choice for commander-in-chief (11:17).
  • He signaled his readiness by wearing his military uniform to the Continental Congress.

• Chronology of command

  • Congress formed the Continental Army before Bunker Hill; Washington was appointed commander shortly after the battle:

    • Army created: June 14, 1775
    • Washington selected: June 15
    • Bunker Hill: June 17
    • Commission received: June 19
    • Washington leaves for Boston: June 23
    • Assumes command: July 3 (13:43)

  • “He receives his commission on the 19th… rushes on June 23rd to get to Boston because that’s now an active military theater.”
    — Matt Spalding (13:43)

• State of the army

  • Washington inherited a “rabble”—a loose association of militias, mostly from Massachusetts, lacking discipline, supplies, or centralized command.
  • Transforming these militias into a functional army was a monumental challenge:
    • “They’re militia, which means they’re just showing up. Each company has its own leader... Massachusetts militia in particular, Washington writes in some of his letters, they don’t like to take leadership from nobody. They’re extremely independent.” (16:08)

---

4. Geopolitical & Logistical Challenges in Boston

• Boston geography

  • 18th-century Boston was effectively an island, connected to the mainland only by the Boston Neck.
  • High ground positions (Bunker/Breed’s Hill to the north, Dorchester Heights to the south) held strategic value (16:08).

• Army reorganization and hardships

  • Washington faced rampant disorder: lax discipline, lack of logistics, and poor sanitation.
  • “He just needed to get sanitation and he needed gunpowder, and he had to stop dueling. He had to stop people firing their guns close to the camp. It was a mob, sort of in Cambridge.”
    — Hugh Hewitt (21:54)
  • Washington initiated the creation of a professional officer corps, moving away from militias simply electing their officers.

---

5. Washington’s Strategic Vision & Fabian Tactics

• A pragmatic approach

  • Despite his aggressiveness and desire to directly confront the British, Washington recognized the need for restraint and persistence.
  • Fabian tactics—named after the Roman general Fabius—became the hallmark of Washington’s long war strategy:
    • “He knows he can’t win… so he basically, through a battle of maneuver, refuses to give open war, open battle to them, but essentially fights a lot of things around.”
      — Matt Spalding (26:30)

• Necessity of artillery and the quest for cannons

  • The Americans lacked cannons to threaten British positions, especially at Dorchester Heights.
  • In a remarkable feat, Henry Knox transported captured cannon from Fort Ticonderoga (NY) to Boston—59 pieces, totaling 60 tons—over 300 miles in midwinter.
  • “It’s just an amazing story based on the sheer need, because you can’t put cannons on Dorchester height, you can’t threaten the British. If you can’t threaten the British, you can’t get them out of Boston. If you can’t get out of Boston, you can’t win the war.”
    — Matt Spalding (29:46)

---

6. Continental Congress: Between War and Reconciliation

• The Olive Branch Petition

  • Congress sent the Olive Branch Petition in a final attempt at reconciliation (June–July 1775), even as it officially recognized the army and sent Washington to Boston.
  • John Dickinson remained a leading moderate, clinging to hopes of peace.

• British obstinance and escalation

  • King George III refused even to receive the petition; in August 1775, he issued a proclamation of rebellion.
  • Parliament’s Prohibitory Act (late 1775) authorized British forces to treat American ships and sailors as enemy combatants, effectively declaring war (34:16).
  • Hiring of Hessian mercenaries — German soldiers known for their severe tactics — “really turns the events. Once those things become known by the Continental Congress, they slowly start to get out, Washington receiving intelligence over the fall into the spring of 76. That changes the whole situation.”
    — Matt Spalding (36:02)

• No path back to compromise

  • The British actions, especially the Prohibitory Act and hiring of mercenaries, convinced even moderates that reconciliation was impossible (35:26).
  • “In December of 1775, there’s no going back because they’ve begun to seize American citizens, make them go to work on British ships, destroy American businesses and basically declare war on us.”
    — Hugh Hewitt (35:26)
  • “The only British ‘negotiators’ they sent over were the Hessians.”
    — Matt Spalding (36:02)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “My driving idea is that, like Augustine said a long time ago, you can’t really love something unless you know it. We need to know the Declaration.”
  — Matt Spalding (03:08)
• “The Declaration is what the ancients used to call the preambles of the law … the thing that puts the marker down, that lays the philosophical grounding of the law. And then the Constitution is the law, the highest law in the land.”
  — Matt Spalding (05:52)
• “There are two people in Maine who saved the Union on two different occasions: Henry Knox by getting the cannon from Fort Ticonderoga to Dorchester Heights, and then Joshua Chamberlain… on Little Round Top. … Henry Knox’s home is a place of pilgrimage in Maine.”
  — Hugh Hewitt (29:10)
• “The combination of things and then the fact that George III negotiated first with Russia and then goes to the German states to send over 30 or 40,000 Hessians … really turns the events.”
  — Matt Spalding (36:02)
• “He [Washington] really has a commanding presence.”
  — Matt Spalding (20:50)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:08] – Spalding explains the purpose and structure of The Making of the American Mind
• [05:11 - 07:35] – Debate over the philosophical and legal relationship of the Declaration and Constitution
• [11:17 - 13:43] – George Washington’s military credentials and appointment as commander-in-chief
• [16:08] – Challenges of uniting the militia and the transformation into a standing army
• [20:08 - 22:29] – Washington’s arrival and the logistical/moral trials of creating an army from scratch
• [26:30] – What are Fabian tactics, and why did Washington adopt them?
• [29:46] – Henry Knox’s transport of Ticonderoga cannon to Boston
• [34:16] – Prohibitory Act and its consequences for American attitudes
• [36:02] – British hiring of Hessian troops as a tipping point to war

---

Tone & Language

• The episode maintains a collegial, scholarly tone with an undercurrent of narrative momentum as the hosts “march” toward the Declaration.
• Historical details and anecdotes are woven throughout, often highlighting the “improbability” and “remarkable” nature of the Revolution’s early days.
• The podcast is both accessible to non-specialists and rigorous in its citation of events and sources.

---

Summary Takeaway

This episode offers a sweeping yet granular look at the fraught and formative year between Bunker Hill and the Declaration of Independence. The hosts reveal the immense difficulties facing the fledgling American cause—from disorder and resource scarcity to British intransigence and evolving military strategy—while also underscoring the interplay between the nation's founding documents. Listeners are left with a deeper appreciation for Washington’s leadership and the intertwined philosophical and practical roots of the American experiment as portrayed in Dr. Spalding’s upcoming book.

---

For further episodes or resources: Visit Podcast.Hillsdale.edu or HughForHillsdale.com.

Transcript

[Scott Bertram]

Every week, Hillsdale College President Larry Arne joins Hugh Hewitt to discuss great books, great men and great ideas. This is Hillsdale Dialogues, part of the Hillsdale College Podcast Network. More episodes at Podcast Hillsdale. Edu or wherever you find your audio.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Morning, Lauren, Evening Grace America. I'm Hugh Hewitt. I have no additional updates on the shutdown. So Morning Gloria and Evening Grace, and I hope you enjoy your weekend. But you know what that music means. It means that it is time for the Hillsdale Dialogue this week with Dr. Matt Spalding, who is the head of the Graduate School on Statesmanship at Hillsdale College's Kirby campus inside of Washington, D.C. and I also found out this week that he's the author of the forthcoming book the Making of the American Mine. Now this could not be more timely given we're about to have our 250th birthday party on July 4th, and that Dean Spaulding and I have been doing a series on 1775 and 1776. But Matthew, you didn't tell me about the Making of the American Mine. It doesn't come out for a month or so, but people can pre order it. How long you been at work on this?

[Matt Spalding]

It's what's based on my teaching, which goes back several decades. You can imagine that. But it's probably been about a year or so. Our facility has been closed. We're doing renovations. So this has been my work project. But it's been going on and I've alluded to it kind of in some of our talks that I was working on some writing. But yeah, no, it's ready to go out December 2nd. You've. I've finalized the galleys and we're looking forward to it. So it's right.

[Hugh Hewitt]

It just arrived on my doorstep yesterday. So I haven't caught up on anything other than the fact that it's got beautiful cover art. This is a reader's copy, by the way. America, but you can order the Making of the American Mind. It's the perfect Christmas gift for any history nerd out there and basically for everyone who's going to be celebrating on July 4th. And Matt, I don't know what this artwork is, but it's a gorgeous representation of of the constitutional debates. But it's not the ordinary one, is it?

[Matt Spalding]

No, it's actually unusual and that's why I picked is by a French artist in the 19th century and he painted it. He's an immigrant and it got into the hands of someone who is actually brought it back to the United States. It now hangs in the White House. It was a gift to the White House in the Kennedy administration. But it's originally a drawing and a painting of them actually debating the Declaration of Independence and independence itself.

[Hugh Hewitt]

It's a beautiful. It's a great choice. Can I get you. Before we plunge into the aftermath of the Battle of Bunker Hill, where we left off, can I get you just to tell me a little bit about what the making of the American mind is going to lead me to conclude? I think I know, but what's the author?

[Matt Spalding]

Well, so the book is laid out very. It's straightforward. There's a long prologue describing the actual creation of the Declaration. Events, debates, what's going on in the Continental Congress, editing, writing, and then it's largely a commentary, going through the Declaration paragraph by paragraph, sometimes line by line, in particular words, what does it mean? Where did it come from? What did they intend by that? So it's really intended to get us into and to know the Declaration in some depth as to its own meaning and history, based on the assumption. My driving idea is that, like Augustine said a long time ago, you can't really love something unless you know it. We need to know the Declaration. That's the central. The central idea, as Lincoln said of the. Of America. But it's done in a way. It's narrative. It's a lot of history stories trying to write it for a general audience to come to understand this document which we're celebrating next July 4th.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Now, Dean Spaulding, last month I had two occasions to sit down with Justice Amy Coney Barrett, and I don't know if the justice is listening right now. Some of the justices do, because it's the right hour when they're leaving the court and they're going home. And both times. Her book, Loosening the Law, is a fabulous originalist book about how originalism works, in her view, but it doesn't talk much at all about the Declaration. So on both occasions, I brought up the Apple of Gold, which is the Declaration of Independence protected by the frame of silver, which is the Constitution. Abraham Lincoln borrowed that phrasing from Psalm, and she and I have a little bit different view on the centrality of the Declaration to understanding the Constitution. I'll leave it to you, if you're ever interested, to find out what her view is. But what's your view about when, when the Justices sit down to find original intent behind the actual Constitution? What is your view of the play of the Declaration in that process?

[Matt Spalding]

Yeah, no, that's. That's a great question. The short answer is think of two sides of a coin. You can't have one without the other. So I think they're necessarily connected. I think it's a little more, shall we say, complicated in the sense that the Declaration doesn't give you specific constitutional te, so how you use it and what it means in looking at particular constitutional questions is another question. But having said that, it is clearly, clearly by intention, throughout the Convention, throughout the writings, throughout the early court cases, throughout the writings of the Founders, it's clearly the philosophical grounding of the whole Constitution. You can't get to equal due process unless you understand what it means to be created equal and be equal by nature. So the two things are necessarily connected, but they're not, as some say, it's direct. And so there's an easy pushback against that. So I think the debate doesn't quite get it right. The Declaration is what the ancients used to call the preambles of the law, the thing that puts the marker down, that lays the philosophical grounding of the law and then the Constitution is the law, the highest law in the land. And you really need to put them together to get a true original understanding of the Founders intentions. So I think the more kind of pragmatic legalists, I think, set aside the Declaration, which I think is a mistake. But on the other hand, you can't make the Declaration take the place of the Constitution. You really do need to use have them both. Madison family said that in America we have two compacts, the Declaration and the Constitution, and you need them both.

[Hugh Hewitt]

You know, I don't want to speak for the Justice. Her words are her words and people can look them up if they're interested. My view was there are certain issues on which the Declaration is dispositive, including like when you go down the list of injuries done by King George, they have sent out many officers to eat up our land and kill us with rules. That tells you a lot about administrative law in the reach of the so called administrative state that you don't find in the Constitution. But you sure know what animated the revolutionaries. So it's got to be a part of that conversation.

[Matt Spalding]

Oh no, I completely agree. And I think along those lines, I think there are actually a lot of things we could point to. What do they mean by consent when they talk about legislative consent? A lot of the grievances flow right into the Constitution. Many of the grievances then shape the Bill of Rights. So I think from that point of view, I think you're absolutely correct. There's a lot in the Declaration that can flow directly into the Constitution. I admit it in the sense that I don't think it's correct to immediately jump to and use the Declaration's philosophical understanding of, say, human nature. I think that's informative and very important to interpreting anything in the Constitution. But I think how you do it is not quite necessarily as direct, although there are certain historical things through the Declaration, such as the one you've mentioned or that I was just talking about that I think do give us important context for constitutional text.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Not surprisingly, a scholar of the founding, Dean Spalding, has just agreed with both Justice Barrett and me, so that's a great place to stay. Once again, the book is the Making of the American Mind, and for those of you who can remember, the Closing of the American Mind was a seminal book of almost 50 years ago. I hope the Making of the American Mind is one that goes along with the opening of the American Mind. I'll be right back with Dean Spalding to get back to Bunker Hill and what happened before and after it. Don't go anywhere.

[Podcast Network Announcer]

This show is a part of the Hillsdale College Podcast Network. If you like what you hear, please subscribe to your favorite. You'll get brand new episodes of all your favorite shows sent right to your device and you'll help us know that you're out there listening. Never miss another episode by going to Podcast Hillsdale. Edu subscribe. That's Podcast Hillsdale Edu subscribe or click the Follow or Subscribe button on Apple podcasts, Spotify or YouTube.

[Scott Bertram]

Hey there, it's Scott Bertram, host of the Radio Free Hillsdale Hour. On this week's program, one of our favorite guests, Molly Hemingway joins us, senior journalism fellow here at Hillsdale College, Editor in chief at the Federalist Fox News contributor. We have a wide ranging conversation with her about the recent Comey indictment, revelations in a letter from YouTube to Congressman Jim Jordan and much more. And Dr. Ben Whelan from Hillsdale's English Department is back as we continue to talk about the Great Gatsby in this the 100 year anniversary of its release. All that this week on the Radio Free Hillsdale Hour. Find it at Podcast hillsdale Edu or wherever you get your audio.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Welcome back, America. I'm Hugh Hewitt. Dean Matt Spaulding helms the Graduate School of Statesmanship for Hillsdale College, headquartered in Washington, D.C. at the Kirby Center. Matt, one thing we did not talk about in our series thus far, and I think we should cover it quickly because it involves Washington, is the French and Indian War, which went on from 1754 to 1763. And a guy named Washington was the leader of the Virginia regiment. So when he arrived at the Continental Congress and they appointed him commander in chief, which we're about to get to, he was not without experience in the. In the field of fighting.

[Matt Spalding]

No, I think is absolutely right. You know, the. The. The story we're often told is that they. They weren't sure who appointed as general and Hancock wanted to be the general, which I think is actually. That actually is true. But there really was no serious conversation or serious debate about who it might be. Washington was the only one with serious military experience. He was there at the beginning of the French Union War. He was sent out by the British to challenge a French incursion that led to the opening of that war. He served in that war, and then after that war, he resigned his commission. He couldn't go any further. Higher as a. As a colonial subject. He served under General Braddock and served very honorably. So he had the military experience. He was on all the military committees. The Continental Congress was very vocal, was very strong. And on top of everything else, not to be taken lightly and not to be understood as merely a symbolic gesture. He showed up to the sessions of the Continental Congress in his uniform, which is, say he was deadly serious about what was going on. So he was really was the only one, only one seriously considered for that job.

[Hugh Hewitt]

So when we last spoke, we were talking about Bunker hill, because the 250th anniversary of the Battle of Bunker Hill was June 17th of this year. It happened on June 17th, 1775. And it was bloody and it was ugly. But Washington wasn't there. He was after that battle on June 17, the Congress appointed him commander in chief of the continental army. On June 19th, and he rode up to Cambridge, where the Continental army was kind of reorganizing after the Battle of Bunk Lahirl. And he took command on July 3. What did he take command of? Matt Spalding.

[Matt Spalding]

Right, right. Well, part of things to remember here and part of learning this history and thinking about and studying is to think for a moment just how these dynamics were going on as we speak simultaneously, not only within the colonies, but within colonies in Europe. Take six weeks to get word back and forth, and even in the colonies. So when you mention Bunker Hill, for instance, Bunker Hill occurs on the 17th between the Continental Congress, creates the army on the 14th, and that's the army that had existed around Boston.

[Hugh Hewitt]

No, I didn't know that.

[Matt Spalding]

Washington is chosen on the 15th, Bunker Hill occurs. He receives his commission on the 19th. So part of it is just get into the notion there are these dynamic things going on that are happening simultaneously. This is real politics, real strategic moves happening simultaneously. He leaves on the 23rd. There's a great ceremony when he leaves, or there's a great moment when he leaves as he's leaving the Continental Congress that night they receive the first word of what will turn out to be the battle of Bunker Hill. And he rushes on June 23rd to get to Boston because that's now an active military theater. We have to understand that lexing Concord got them to start thinking about defense. Bunker Hill. As soon as Bunker. It became clear what had happened at Bunker Hill. The British in force had sought out to destroy that, that whole militia. That really put them on a war footing. So Washington is rushing to the front of what is a war. And he gets there. He takes command at the beginning of July and goes about rebuilding the army, preparing its defenses, reorganizing it. Remember, it's all, it's a bunch of militiamen from various, mostly Massachusetts, but other Connecticut and other people are starting to show up. How do you turn that into an army? They're creating a siege line essentially around Boston. Well, Boston is occupied by the primt military power in the world. Its ships are in the harbor. I mean, this really is a no win situation in many ways. Yet he's received a commission and been instructed by the Continental Congress to go and defend this potential country which has not yet created, announced independence to defend them against this army.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Gene Spalding I want people to, to understand Boston is a very unusual geographic. It has the Charles River. Cambridge is on one side, Boston's on the other side. Got a big harbor, but it's really a series of hills and bowls and valleys and the, the Continentals, the militias from Vermont and from Massachusetts and from New Hampshire and from wherever they wanted to show up after shots fired, April 15, Patriots Day, Lexington Congress people begin to show up and I think Israel Putnam's up there. I don't really remember, but they're rather leaderless, aren't they?

[Matt Spalding]

Yeah, they essentially are. They have some local leaders. But the more important thing is, and this gets into a larger conversation about the militia versus a standing army. Remember, we're Republican government. We don't like standing armies. But it turns out, yeah, armies are actually kind of necessary. Sometimes they're militia, which means they're just showing up, they're there. Each company has its own leader. There aren't even, you know, so it's very completely disorganized. And Massachusetts militia in particular, Washington writes in some of his letters, they don't like to take leadership from nobody. They're very, extremely independent. They have that. That independent American spirit. So it's, it's sometimes overlooked, but the notion of turning that militia in 1775 into an army which by. Once you get past 1776 and get into 77, 78, when they're actually maneuvering, well, by the time you get into the spring of 77, once you crossing the Delaware and going and attacking Princeton, Washington starts to have a military which can actually do maneuvers and do the things that a guerrilla force, an organized guerrilla force would be necessary to defeat the British army. But there's a long period in which he essentially has nothing. He's reorganizing this rabble, as the British called them, into a force. And it's virtually not impossible, as we know. But they have no supplies, they have no leaders, they have no weapons, especially no cannons, which is going to be a very important part of our story here going to the fall. And they're surrounding these British in Boston. The other thing, Hugh, I'd point out, is go look at a map of what Boston looked like in 1776. The city of Boston is geographically different today than it was in 76. In 1776, Boston is an island in the harbor of Boston, the city, and it's only connected to the mainland by a very narrow Boston Neck on the southwestern side of the city. And otherwise it's surrounded by harbor. There are heights in Boston. And the strategic difficulty for Boston is that there's a high point on the north which is where Bunker and Breeds Hill is, which was the first battle. And just looking ahead here, the other height is on the southern kind of southwestern side, below where the neck connects to the mainland. It's called the Dorchester Heights. That's the other high ground. And that high ground not only threatens Boston, but also the harbor of Boston, which means the British ships.

[Hugh Hewitt]

We'll be right back to that. Don't go anywhere except at Hillsdale Edu. All things Hillsdale at Hillsdale Edu. Dean Spaulding and I have been doing a number of these shows. They're all collected at hugh for hillsdale.com as we prepare to celebrate our 250th birthday on July 4th in 2026. Sticks. And I'll be right back with Dean Spalding on the Hugh Hewitt Show. Welcome back, America. I'm Hugh Hewitt. The Hillsdale dialogue is underway. All things Hills At Hillsdale. Edu, this is one of those weeks where I'm joined by De Matt Spalding, who leads the graduate school of statesmanship for Hillsdale College. And he is the author of this brand new book, the Making of the American Mind, which will come out in December. You can order it now. And we're trying to get you up to 1776, but we're only. Excuse me, we're only in June and July right now of 1775, when Washington gets up to Cambridge, Massachusetts, which is a pretty long walk into Boston, a pretty good horse ride to get there, as you just described, narrow ways to get from Cambridge to Boston. How does he take command? Does he have orders from the Congress? Do people immediately recognize. Oh, it's George. It's not like they've got X or blue sky or Facebook to tell him that Washington's coming.

[Matt Spalding]

That's true. But keep this in mind. So the colony of Massachusetts, which now is a provincial congress, remember its legislature, has been wiped away by the king's governor. The provincial congress of Massachusetts has sent a request to the Continental Congress to take over the army. So they've actually issued that request. The Continental Congress agrees to that request when they recognize the army and then they appoint a general. So in that sense, he has his commission, he presents his commission and there's a ceremony and he took command. But it gets back to this, this more philosophical problem, if you will. It's not a nation yet. It's not a country.

[Scott Bertram]

It's.

[Matt Spalding]

There isn't an organized command. There's not a unified command. So there's a lot of a combination of military strategy. How do you organize these things? How do you make these militia more prepared to fight the British? But also the political question, he's from Virginia. He's not from Massachusetts. He's not from the state where any of these militiamen are from. And yet they have to essentially follow him. Here's another interesting little tidbit. It's not for another year, maybe a year and a half or so before there actually is an oath. Washington institutes an oath later in the war, early on, but still later in the war, not to himself, but to the United States. But there's no country to be allegiant to. And so this is a large problem. So there's a lot of the great story of Washington is the extent to which he exerts this moral leadership. He really has a commanding presence.

[Hugh Hewitt]

I want to bring in. There is a little bit of your signal, Matt, but I will say this while it regains its strength. The. The two books by Rick Atkinson, the British are Coming in the Fate of the Day, a lot of it are, is devoted to the logistics, because when Washington gets there, he's been in a real army, been in the Royal army, he's been in the British army. And he just needed to get sanitation and he needed gunpowder, and he had to stop dueling. He had to stop people firing their guns close to the camp. It was a. It was a mob, sort of in Cambridge.

[Matt Spalding]

He had to stop them from swimming and bathing in the. In the rivers and ponds. So he cut back on disease. It's. It's. It's an amazing feat. There's virtually no organization, and he knows something about the British organization. He actually also has some books he's reading about how to organize an army. So it's all of the above. It is quite, quite amazing. He also wants to create an officer corps. If you recall, these are all militias, which means each militia elects their own officer. Well, that doesn't work. If you're actually going to fight a war against the British. There's got to be some more organization than that. So it's actually an amazing feat, and almost from the beginning. The other thing I would add is that he gets there in July, July, August. He's looking towards the winter. Well, he wants to attack the British. He wants to. This is a moment, a time between now and July 4th of next year. Washington's quite aggressive. He wants to pick a fight. There's really very little at risk in a certain sense. He wants to get going and move something, but there are virtually no ways to do it. Remember, they're out on Boston island, surrounded by water, protected by British naval ships. So Washington's also looking ahead strategically, planning for not only getting cannons on that Dorchester height, which is a great story involving Henry Knox, but also pushing the Continental Congress to create a navy. Which means he realizes one of the first lessons he has is that a navy will be the key to winning a war against the British, backed by their navy, which, of course, alludes farther ahead, even beyond that, to the fact that we've got to have an ally in the French, because the French are the only other country in the world that has a significant navy at this time.

[Hugh Hewitt]

And at this point, I want to.

[Matt Spalding]

Put in combining all these things together.

[Hugh Hewitt]

I want to put it in a word for Fabian tactics. People will hear that Washington adopted Fabian tactics throughout the long war. It begins in 1775. It's not over until 1782, some argue, 1783. What do you think? How do you define Fabian tactics? Tactics. And that's balding, I guess. There's the music. We'll come back with Fabian tactics right after this. All things Hillsdale, Hillsdale Edu Stay tuned.

[Podcast Network Announcer]

This show is a part of the Hillsdale College Podcast Network. If you like what you hear, please subscribe to your favorite. You'll get brand new episodes of all your favorite shows sent right to your device and you'll help us know that you're out there listening. Never miss another episode by going to Podcast Hillsdale. Edu subscribe. That's Podcast Hillsdale Edu subscribe or click the Follow or subscribe button on Apple podcasts, Spotify or YouTube.

[Scott Bertram]

Hey there, it's Scott Bertram, host of the Radio Free Hillsdale Hour. On this week's program, one of our favorite guests, Molly Hemingway joins us, senior journalism fellow here at Hillsdale College, editor in chief at the Federalist Fox News contributor. We have a wide ranging conversation with her about the recent Comey indictment, revelations in a letter from YouTube to Congressman Jim Jordan and much more. And Dr. Ben Whelan from Hillsdale's English department is back as we continue to talk about the Great Gatsby in this, the 100 year anniversary of its release. All that this week on the Radio Free Hillsdale Hour. Find it at Podcast Hillsdale Edu or wherever you get your audio.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Welcome back, America. I'm Hugh Hewitt. I just asked Dean Spalding on the Hillsdale Dialogue, all things Hillsdale Hillsdale Edu about Fabian tactics. What's that mean? DEAN Spalding?

[Matt Spalding]

It's a reference to Fabius, the great German, excuse me, Roman general who is trying to defend against the invasion of the Huns. And he knows he can't win. So he basically, through a battle of maneuver, refuses to give open war, open battle to them, but essentially fights a lot of things around.

[Hugh Hewitt]

I think it's the Carthaginians, not the Huns. I think it's the Carthaginians, I'm sorry.

[Matt Spalding]

Yeah, Carthaginians, yes.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Hannibal. And he just won't fight Hannibal. He just, he picks his battles and so does Washington. Now we've got about seven minutes and then another three to finish up. We got to march through a lot of stuff. So let's talk about the cannon because you mentioned Dorchester Heights. And then let's get through what the Congress is up to.

[Matt Spalding]

Yeah. So they're kind of these big strategic things going on in the fall of 75. And Washington is very aggressive. He's setting up his war in Boston, the British are extremely aggressive. And it turns out the British are really pushing us towards war. And the Continental Congress is still playing around, wanting, hoping for reconciliation. But looking ahead, one of the things that Washington wants to do is he wants to put cannons on the Dorchester Heights. If he can't go directly to war with the British, if he can't fight them, and he wants to do so. And once the, the Boston harbor freezes, he actually has plans to actually invade over the frozen harbors of Boston to strike the British directly. But the other thing he needs to do to defend himself, but also to threaten the British ships is to put cannons on Dorchester harbor as well. The Americans have no cannons, but they have the year before or earlier that year, excuse me, captured Fort Ticonderoga up in New York, 300 miles away. So Washington dispatches a bookseller in Boston who he's met but thinks very highly of, named Henry Knox, who has studied a little bit about cannons and artillery. He sends him up to Fort Ticonderoga in November, which means November going into the winter, to get the cannons at Fort Ticonderoga. And starting in November, December, he gets back in January, what is often he calls in one of his letters his noble train of artillery. He brings over 300 miles by sled pulled by mules, 59 pieces of cannons, some weighing a couple of tons each totaling 60 tons of cannons back.

[Hugh Hewitt]

You know, my friends up in Maine, my wife has family up there, they said there are two people in Maine who saved the Union on two different occasions. Henry Knox by getting the cannon from Fort Ticonderoga to Dorchester Heights, and then Joshua Chamberlain, who charged at Little Round top on the second day of getting saved. So there are two Mainers who saved the Union, one in 1775 and one in 1863. But Henry Knox's home is a place of pilgrimage in Maine because he did make his living as a bookseller. Big man, right? Enormously large man, Very large.

[Matt Spalding]

I wouldn't say overweight in that. He's a very big, big fellow. I felt sorry for the horse. He would have been on it. But it's also an amazing feat of just the sheer logistical willpower to do that. There are stories about some of these cannons broke through the ice. They're going over ice covered rivers. Sometimes they broke through and they retrieved the cannon. It's just an amazing story based on the sheer need, because you can't put cannons on Dorchester height, you can't threaten the British. If you can't threaten the British, you can't get them out of Boston. If you can't get out of Boston, you can't win the war.

[Hugh Hewitt]

And we don't get there until 1776. They get there. The cannons arrive in.

[Matt Spalding]

In January, in January before that. Yeah.

[Hugh Hewitt]

I want to make sure we get to the Continental Congress and what they've been up to. They tried the olive branch petition, what, of 1775.

[Matt Spalding]

Yeah. It's about the same time June, when they do. Last time, we also talked about their argument about taking up arms. They send the olive branch petition, and they also make Washington recognize the army and send Washington off to war. So that all occurs at the same time, which is a. They're still hoping. The Continental Congress is very much hoping for reconciliation. That's the majority is still holding that position. John Dickinson, who's brilliant, very good on the principles of the Revolution, is very cautious and wants to reconcile with the British any opportunity he can. They're willing to recognize a general in an army, but they see it as completely defensive. They don't want a war. And so at this point, in the summer of 75, now going into the fall, is really when you see the turning point, if you will. This is a great historical example of events, British events, decisions in London, Washington's decisions, what's going on in Boston, affecting a legislative discussion in real time. This is what I meant about the information going back and forth. Washington is constantly writing the Continental Congress. The Continental Congress is constantly observing what is going on. And the key thing that happens is that the. The British. The petition gets over to England. The king will not even hear the petition. He does not even accept the petition at all. Doesn't take it up. He's issued a proclamation of rebellion in August. Right. In August. Remember, it takes about six weeks for information to go back and forth. The timing here gets very tricky in many ways. These kind of things start crossing lines and crossing over each other. But about the same time, the king has made his decisions. The king after. Through the whole series of things, after the course of acts, after the various things that have happened after the Boston, after the Tea Party, he's decided the only way to decide this is force. He's pushing his own strong position in Parliament, who's very agreeable with him. So he issues a proclamation of rebellion in October. He will open Parliament from a very important speech from the throne, which is his official announcement. And he essentially says, we are going to destroy the rebellion. They want independence. We shall not allow it. We will destroy it. And he hints, especially reading in hindsight, he hints that there Is an invasion force coming, a massive invasion force being prepared. He also hints at, but doesn't mention he is looking to hire mercenaries.

[Hugh Hewitt]

And that's a. That is a red flag for the colonists. When we come back in our final three minutes, we're going to talk about mercenaries and the Prohibitory act because whatever hope that John Dickinson had or any moderates like Edmund Burke in England are gone by the end of 1775. All things Hillsdale at Hillsdale. Eduardo. Stay tuned. Welcome back, America. I'm Hugh Hewitt. Dean. Matt Spaulding is with me. Dean, when we get back, the next time we'll pick up with the cannon on Dorchester Heights. But I want to get two more things in today, the Prohibitory act and what you just mentioned, the Hessians, because that really sets off, that destroys the opportunity to have any kind of a deal. What's the Prohibitory act and why does it enrage people so?

[Matt Spalding]

The Prohibitory act is an act of Parliament that essentially legislates the King's position, if you will, what the proclamation of rebellion followed by his speech on the throne, essentially say from the throne, as the King, the monarch is. The American colonies are rebelling. They are seeking independence and they are no longer under the protection of the British Navy, British army and the monarchy. They're rebels. And we all have a. We are all authorized and required to destroy the rebellion, arrest the perpetrators and do what is necessary to stop them. The Prohibitory act essentially begins to put that into legislation. In particular, when it comes to the Navy, it outlaws trade with the American colonies and it authorizes any British ship to take any American ship to take and seize that ship and to seize its seamen and the. And to press them into royal service. And it says very clearly in the legislation to treat them as if they were open enemies of England.

[Hugh Hewitt]

That's. And what people should remember about that is In December of 1775, there's no going back because they've begun to seize American citizens, make them go to work on British ships, destroy American businesses and basically declare war on us. Very different from the way Lincoln acted towards the south, which was in rebellion. And we should do that. Dean Spaulding, at some point, compare Lincoln's approach to trying to keep the south in as opposed to George iii. And we have a minute left. He just was going to drive the Americans to surrender. That was his only position. There was no reconciliation.

[Matt Spalding]

That's right. And as Washington famously said in one of his letters, the only the British sent over individuals to negotiate a reconciliation, and they were the Hessians that was there were no negotiators, just the Hessians. So the combination of things and then the fact that George III negotiated first with Russia and then goes to the German states to send over 30 or 40,000 Hessians who are known for their harshness in war, really turns the events. Once those things become known by the Continental Congress, they slowly start to get out washing receiving intelligence over the fall into the spring of 76. That's that changes the whole situation. The British intend to use force, absolute force. The Continental Congress wants reconciliation. They try over and over again. They don't want to go to war. And Washington, who sees this coming, prepares for war.

[Hugh Hewitt]

And we will come back to that in Dorchester Heights when nexting Spalding is back. In the meantime, you want to order this book, the Making of the American Mind. We're still six months away from the Declaration of Independence. We are going to come back in January 1776 the next time Dean Spalding is here. Thank you, Adam. Thank you, Harley. Thank you, Dwayne. And go to Hillsdale. Edu for all things Hillsdale at theheugh for hillsdale.com for all of our prior conversations about our 250th celebration.

[Scott Bertram]

Thanks for listening to the Hillsdale Dialogues, part of the Hillsdale College Podcast Network. More episodes at Podcast hillsdale. Edu or wherever you find your audio. For more information about Hillsdale College, head to Hillsdale.

[Hugh Hewitt]

Eduardo.