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- [00:05]
Podcast Announcer
Every week, Hillsdale College president Larry Arne joins Hugh Hewitt to discuss great books, great men, and great ideas. This is Hillsdale Dialogues, part of the Hillsdale College Podcast network. More episodes at Podcast Hillsdale. Edu or wherever you find your audio.
- [00:32]
Hugh Hewitt
Morning Glory and Evening Grace America. I'm Hugh Hewitt. That music means, of course, it's time for the Hillsdale Dialogue. Last broadcast hour of the week on the Salem News Channel, the Salem Radio Network, all of our wonderful affiliates. I can't go anywhere, literally anywhere, without anyone talking to me about Larry Arne and the Hilltale Dialogues. So thank you all for listening and endorsing the idea that, you know, once in a while, you want to hear a serious conversation with a serious person. And that includes Dr. Larry on President of Hillsdale College. Next week's a special week. Don't miss it. It's commencement week. We're going to talk about commencements the week thereafter. We're coming back to Churchill, but this week we got too much news to do. Dr. Arn, I know you're done with your school year, and so I hope you're relaxing and planning on a wonderful vacation. And, you know, are you going to Alaska or. They got down south to the. To the islands. Where are you headed?
- [01:23]
Larry Arne
Well, I'm working. We have a college cruise early next month that's going to Norway. But, you know, I lead a cursed life, as do you, everybody at the college except we, who sort of manage the college. There's a vast sigh of relief, and I do that for about two days, and then I start remembering, oh, yeah, we gotta finish the year and get ready for next year.
- [01:50]
Hugh Hewitt
So when Dr. Arn does a college cruise, that's the hardest work that he does because I've seen it. And he cannot walk down the hallway. He cannot walk down the hallway without having to talking about Socrates and Aristotle. So it's really not a normal experience, is it? It's not normal.
- [02:10]
Larry Arne
It's fun. I like, you know, we've done 22 or three cruises. You've been on one of them or two of them. I've never been on a cruise except under those circumstances and probably will never go. But, you know, it is. It is work, but it's good work. And that's, you know, it's an unusual experience.
- [02:33]
Hugh Hewitt
And Mrs. Arne makes it all come together for you because she does protect you as fetching Mrs. Hewitt. Protects me from talking too much endlessly. 24 7. Well, let's do the news this week, next week, commencements, and the week thereafter. We'll go back to Churchill. I want to begin with your assessment of the big summit last week. It ended this week between President Trump and General Secretary Xi in China. We've had a lot of summits. This one was a big one, though. We don't have any takeaways really. What did you think of it?
- [03:06]
Larry Arne
Well, it's monumental. There's more than one way to think about what's going on in the world right now. And the enemies of the current administration say we don't have a plan. We're just stumbling around being aggressive. Some intelligent people I know think this, and I'd rather think it. We're in a competition with China. We're stronger than China. We have a bigger economy than China. It is growing about as fast as China's. Now they have a rapidly declining population replacing it with robots. Above all, they're a despotism. They get 70% of their oil from abroad. And the two prime places have been Venezuela and Iran. And darned if we don't have something going on in both those places that adjust things. So it could be that there's something strategic here, and I hope so, and price. So we don't know how the Iran war is going to finish. We don't know how it's going to affect the midterms. And that's, I would bet some money that Iran is playing for the midterms. Delay, delay, delay. Keep the gas prices up. Maybe they'll be successful at that. But it could be that what's behind all this is a strategy to diminish China's threat to us.
- [04:28]
Hugh Hewitt
Over a year ago, you and I talked about Churchill and Gallipoli. That's two years ago now. And so Churchill always had his eye on the narrowest waters. Where were the narrowest waters? The straits control everything. Well, we're concerned right now with Hormuz and the Red Sea, but China depends upon the state of Malacca more than anything else. And we got that one in a pincer movement. So they can't really be, they can't really be indifferent to Iran closing down the strait, can they?
- [04:59]
Larry Arne
No, I don't think so. Now they're, you know, if you want to look on the bad side of the legislature, they just produce much more than we do, manufacture much more than we do. And there are enormous steps being taken all over America, not just by the president and his administration, to beef that back up. You know, and I'm very fond of saying that in a competition with the despotism, there's an asset that we have that it's very difficult for them to match, however much they spy on us, however hard they try. And right now that asset has names. The names are Elon Musk and Palmer Luckey and Alex Karp and, and Peter Thiel. And what these guys are is geniuses at making things. They love to do that. I read in passing this week that the Defense Department just signed a big contract with Palantir, which is no Andarel, which is a former lucky company to make, and that's from the Lord of the Rings, to make cheaper drones. And you know, he's pretty good. And so, and they invent stuff. And you know, if you, if you look at. I read a long article about war the other day, Paul Ray, the Rahe Ray who's been on your show, who's one of our guys, very good. He said he sends me the most interesting articles. And the article is by a former chairman of the Joint Chiefs. And it says that war is going to be much more fluid than it's ever been and that weapons are going to be adapted near the battlefield on a daily basis. And it reminded me of reading about Elon Musk's unboxed manufacturing process, which is a system of parallel assembly lines making. Each one makes about a quarter of the car and they all move at speed and one slows down, it doesn't slow down the others, and they snap together at the end. And they're self contained. Each one of them is possible, so the connections are fewer. And it takes. In Detroit, it takes 65 seconds, I read, to make a car. And Elon is making them at 31 seconds and he's trying to get it down to five seconds a car off the assembly line every five seconds. And so I think that, you know, the world is speeding up and that's dangerous, but we should have some assets in regard to that. We should be able to adapt because we're decentralized in our ways, not as much as we used to be, which I regret, but still, effectively we're that.
- [07:54]
Hugh Hewitt
I want to pause for a moment on the Barracuda because I interviewed Senator Collins yesterday, she's Chairwoman of Appropriations, and they've approved a big, big dollop of money to the Department of Defense. War that went to Palantir, to Anduril. And Andrew said, we're just going to make the missiles and then we're going to sell them to you. The Barracuda. And it's a cruise missile and it's a little bit slower and a little bit smaller, but it's a whole lot less expensive. And we're going to build 1000 a year for you. And this is a complete reversal the way we've ever done it with the Pentagon. The first time ever that we're going to do this on scale, which is people are going to venture capitalize munitions and then try and sell them to the Pentagon. It makes a world of sense to me. What's it make? It. Does it make sense to you?
- [08:43]
Larry Arne
No, that's the basic premise of Anduril. And that is. He didn't, you know, the way the cycle works, you have to step back a little bit. In the 60s and 50s, the most innovative stuff for military was invented by the Pentagon with contractors. But they led. They were led. We used to always talk about offshoots to the private economy into the. Into the offshoots from the military and the space program into the private economy.
- [09:19]
Hugh Hewitt
Correct.
- [09:19]
Larry Arne
And that's innovative. Yeah. Well, I used to go to conferences at the Naval Postgraduate School every year run by a guy named Andy Marshall, who was the longest service.
- [09:28]
Hugh Hewitt
Oh, really? You knew Andy Marshall?
- [09:32]
Larry Arne
Well, for a long time, yeah.
- [09:34]
Hugh Hewitt
Oh, he was the big brain of the Pentagon. The big brain.
- [09:38]
Larry Arne
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And what those conferences were about were about how much the present has changed and how much the future is likely to change. And one of the key points was we now read in the paper about the inventions that are going to dominate war. And we hadn't thought of them yet, you see. And so this thing where you got the, like, what was a computer in 1960? It was something that filled up a room. And you remember when we're old now, so we can remember things like this. And it's not that long ago Cray made the fastest computer in the world. And we were always worried if somebody else was catching up. Now it's lots of little computers. Even a data center is thousands of little computers. And so everything's decentralized. You know, it's one reason we should decentralize our government.
- [10:34]
Hugh Hewitt
Amen to that. I'll be right back with Dr. Larry Arnold. All things Hillsdale, by the way, are at Hillsdale. Edu. All the dialogue's@hueforhillsdale.com and the President was talking about Iran yesterday. I'm gonna talk about Iran with President Aaron right after this. They tend,
- [10:53]
Podcast Announcer
you know, the Robertson family from the hit TV show Duck Dynasty. Now Hillsdale College offers you the unique opportunity to learn alongside the Robertsons as they dive deep into Hillsdale's online course, the Genesis Story, every Friday on the Unashamed podcast, the Robertsons will share their insights and perspectives. Learning from Hillsdale professor of English Justin Jackson. Take a trip down south to Louisiana for this one of a kind learning experience we call Unashamed Academy. Visit unashamedforhillsdale.com and enroll today. That's Unashamed. F O R hillsdale.com to experience the genesis story alongside the Robertsons. Hey there, it's Scott Bertram, host of the Radio Free Hillsdiggle Hour. On this week's program, we welcome back Heather McDonald from the Manhattan Institute, commercial contributing editor at City Journal. Her book When Race Trumps Merit is now out in a new paperback version with a new preface by Heather McDonald. We'll talk about that and efforts by the Trump administration to curb DEI programs in this, his second term. Plus, Richard Samuelson from Hillsdale in D.C. he's back, too. As we walk up to America 250 this week discussing Thomas Paine's common sense and Abigail Adams and her request of John to remember the ladies. All that this week on the Radio Free Hillsdale Hour. Find it at podcast Hillsdale. Edu or wherever you get your audio.
- [12:48]
Hugh Hewitt
Welcome back, America. I get to talk to presidents on this show. Two weeks ago I talked to President Trump and every week I talk to President Arne. President Arne is the president of Hillsdale College. All things Hillsdalesdale. Eduardo President Arndt makes a lot more sense to me because he goes slower with me than President Trump does. But doctor, President Trump said one thing about a half dozen times to me which was neither new nor original, but he's repeated it probably 20 more times since then and a hundred times before then, which is Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon. He's kind of a genius at messaging. He gets one message and he repeats it until everybody in the world hears it. What do you make right now? We've got reports that Iran is refusing to turn over their enriched uranium. And I think he just sits back and says they're not going to get a nuclear weapon. What do you make of this situation?
- [13:42]
Larry Arne
Well, I don't know. Of course it's unknown. But I think we're in a position to get them if we keep the political will together to get them. And the failure of political will, if it happens, will not be happening. I would guess in the heart, heart and mind of Donald Trump. I think if we have to go back at him again, I think it'll be devastating. I think we, you know, we've hurt them really badly. Now we're looking for littler things than we were last thing last time, and we're looking for a bunch of enriched uranium. And I wouldn't be surprised if we can go get it if we need to. I think he wants him. You know, he. And remember this I so messaging. I want to repeat one point this. The war aim here is not, as it has been in the past, to make that country into a democracy. On the argument that we cannot be free until everyone or all the dangerous people are free.
- [14:43]
Hugh Hewitt
Correct.
- [14:44]
Larry Arne
And the reason I don't like an argument, although it's a fond hope, is that it's not possible to do because you can't really do democracy for somebody else. And so that's just like saying we can't be safe. Well, we can't be fully safe, but we can probably be safer if we restrain Iran. And we are doing that and have done that with Venezuela, maybe about to do that with Cuba. And if we, if we do those things at a cost we can afford, then the country will be safer. So it looks like strategy to me.
- [15:19]
Hugh Hewitt
And he also said. He also said to me, they're crazy, they're lunatics. And he repeated that crazy and lunatic line four or five times, again using repetition, the message and that. He never says that about xi. He doesn't say that about Putin, because totalitarians like those two, they don't have a fanatical theology that upholds dying. They have an ideology that's totalitarian, but it likes living. Do you think that's the one disadvantage we have dealing with Iran? They are religious zealots and fanatic. That's very hard to deal with.
- [15:57]
Larry Arne
Well, make a distinction from the past, so it's easier. In his last great speech in the House Commons, Churchill gave a speech about hydrogen bombs more powerful than the original atomic bombs, and he was frightened of them. And he invented in that speech the deterrence strategy that we have followed ever since. When the deterrence strategy is if you use them on us, we'll use them on you. He says that that will work, except for a tyrant in the mood of Hitler in his bunker. And that he says, is a blind. This is in 1955. He gives the speech. Right. Well, of Stalin at the Iron curtain speech in 1946. He says Russia is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma. But I think there is a key to the Russian national interest. He said Russian, not Soviet.
- [16:54]
Hugh Hewitt
Right.
- [16:54]
Larry Arne
In other words, he was attributing to Stalin gifts of calculation that might be relied on if you placed the facts in such a condition that he would calculate not to attack he didn't give that to Hitler. Well, I think that you can probably give that to Xi and you cannot give that to the whoever is ruling Iran this morning. I don't know who that is.
- [17:21]
Hugh Hewitt
I agree.
- [17:21]
Larry Arne
So I agree. Yeah. So I think that's the distinction. And I think Trump makes that distinction. I think he's right about it.
- [17:28]
Hugh Hewitt
Let me ask you about a distinction to the free people. Your in laws not only fought Hitler, Mrs. Arn's parents, they endured Hitler's bombings and they endured seven years of war, six years of war. Americans are complaining about gas prices being up $2. They're not as high as Biden, but they're still up. Does the west have the capacity to endure a little bit of pump pain for three to four months in order to bring down a nuclear threat to zero? What do you think?
- [17:59]
Larry Arne
Well, I don't, you know, we will see, right. I mean, we're going to need it. I mean, and, you know, it's one of those choices. The weakness of any human being in any political regime is the difficulty of sacrificing the now for the later. And, you know, this is, all this stuff is doubtful. Will it work? And we, we won't know ever what the world would be like if we hadn't done these things. Right. We don't know what the world would be like if Biden had not become president, because he did. And so it, you know, and the midterms are, you know, they don't look great right now, and history doesn't indicate that they will be. But we don't know the answer to that either right now. And all one can do is his best and make the arguments. I regret three amendments to the Constitution, the 16th, 17th and 22nd. 16th is the income tax, the 17th is the direct election of centers, and the 22nd is term limits for the president. And it's not that I want presidents to serve three terms. I want them in their second term to be able to threaten it because it makes them more formidable, all of any of them. And so you elect the guy, give him a run, right? If you don't like him, vote him out. But the idea that he can't run again is a temptation not to think hard enough about the next election. I'm not accusing Donald Trump of that. In fact, I think he's probably thinking pretty hard about it. But I'm saying that there's that temptation there and it'd be better if it weren't there.
- [19:43]
Hugh Hewitt
Well, I also have to just say you're either for Prohibition or you're against it. So there's one other amendment you didn't like, and I suspect it's the one that prohibited the use of alcohol, not the one that got rid of the prohibition. So I'm just going to add a fourth to your list. Am I right on that? Guess.
- [19:59]
Larry Arne
No. No, they fixed that. Right. So
- [20:04]
Hugh Hewitt
do you regret giving 18 year olds the vote?
- [20:08]
Larry Arne
Yeah, probably. So do I. Yeah. I mean, the argument, you know, 16 year olds now, Right. And the argument that if you're old enough to die in the military, you're old enough to vote is a strong argument. So probably I said, I do think that, I think that, you know, we make we, you know, as a rule, I think, remember, I work for a living with young people and they're a good bunch. Right. I'm very privileged with the ones I work with. But they're young. Right. And one of the ways they get older is they don't become too worldly too fast. Like what, what do you do in this age of social media where they hear every kind of claim? Tell them to read a book. You know, it takes time to read
- [20:57]
Hugh Hewitt
a book, learn what it takes. We'll come back to that very subject. And I'm gonna talk with you about Graham Platner and his online presence. When we return, the candidate for the Democrats in cruel and vicious, sexist and bigoted, and their nominee. Stay tuned.
- [21:14]
Podcast Announcer
This show is a part of the Hillsdale College Podcast Network. If you like what you hear, please subscribe to your favorite. You'll get brand new episodes of all your favorite shows sent right to your device and you'll help us know that you're out there listening. Never miss another episode by going to podcast head hillsdale.edu subscribe. That's podcast Hillsdale. Edu subscribe or click the Follow or subscribe button on Apple podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Hey there, it's Scott Bertram, host of the Radio Free Hillsdale Hour. On this week's program, we welcome back Heather McDonald from the Manhattan Institute, contributing editor at Citi Journal. Her book When Race Trumps Merit is now out in a new paperback version with a new preface by Heather McDonald. We'll talk about that and efforts by the Trump administration to curb DEI programs in this his second term. Plus Richard Samuelson from Hillsdale in D.C. he's back, too. As we walk up to America 250 this week discussing Thomas Paine's Common sense and and Abigail Adams and her request of John to remember the ladies. All that this week on the radio Free Hillsdale Hour. Find it at Podcast Hillsdale. Edu or wherever you get your audio.
- [22:55]
Hugh Hewitt
Welcome back, America. I'm Hugh Hewitt. Dr. Larry Orn is my guest. All things Hillsdale are collected at Hillsdale. Edu. They got lots of free courses, including a new one on classical logic and rhetoric. They've got every Hillsdale dialogue that Dr. Arne and I and his colleagues have done for many, many years. Over at HughForHilsdale.com Dr. Arn I was on Fox News yesterday. I was asked to comment on Graham Platner and I held up the Democrat opposition research file, which was done from January to April. It's the most toxic thing I've ever said. Then Janet Mills dropped out and now the Republicans are dropping their oppo and he did not do this as an 18 to 20 year old. He's not merely cruel and verbally abusive and bigoted and homophobic. And now he's sadistic. And that seems to be paying off for him in the fundraising world. You've got El Sayed running up there in Michigan and he's out and out anti Semitic and we got candidates in the Democratic Party who are anti Semitic down in Texas. What in the world is happening to the new Democratic Party?
- [24:06]
Larry Arne
Well, the extremes, you know, they have a voice. Part of, part of it's social media. It's, you know, one thing that strikes me is that I used to go around saying there's only two kinds of people ever got elected president, United States high, previously elected public officials and famous generals. And now Donald Trump, he's still the only exception. But he, you know, that became possible for a lot of reasons. His personal qualities are serious. But you know, the media and social media, the second time especially so these guys, you know, and there's a, there's a, in a divided country, if 10% move some way, that can make a difference. 10% is not a lot. But you know, if the country's 51, 49 or 50, 50, 10% is a huge amount. So they, you know, I mean, right now the Labour Party is collapsing in, in Britain, I'm happy to report, and they got a massive majority in the parliament, but they got 36% of the vote. And so that's a thing, right? There's, there is a part of the population that listens to crazy things and it is on both the left and the right, I think more on the left than the right.
- [25:27]
Hugh Hewitt
And what do you do on campus with your kids? How do you, by kids, I mean your 18 to 22 year old cohort what do you explain to them about speech and discipline in speech and the habit of not being vulgar and the habit of finding humor the way Churchill did through art, not through profanity.
- [25:50]
Larry Arne
Yeah, well, that's a big thing, right? So first of all, what do we do? Everything we do is to help them become serious human beings. That means morally and intellectually serious. And serious people learn and think before they act. And so that's the whole curriculum. I mean, the liberal arts curriculum from the time of Socrates aims for that. That's what Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics is about. Lately we notice, you know, I had a big meeting with a bunch of kids, you know, because they were asking questions about Israel because they, you know, hear on the Internet that it's illegitimate and that, you know, and it was a very interesting conversation. It was a very good conversation. But, you know, I happen to know quite a lot about the founding of modern Israel, and I know some things about the origins of the Jewish faith which are, you know, the first step in the formation of Western civilization. The covenant with Abraham. At a time when religion was tribal and familial and clannish. God says, I will be your God and you will be my people, and this will be a blessing to all the peoples on the face of the earth. That's like an earthquake in a time when there wasn't anything like that, right? And that's 1500, 2000 years before Socrates. So I told him that, and that was, you know, that's interesting. And then I happen to know the steps in the founding of modern Israel and what, Lebanon and Syria and Kuwait. I'm naming them Saudi Arabia. I can count them on my fingers. Iran and Jordan were all founded in the same set of international movements that produced the state of Israel. So one of them is illegitimate. They all are. And so they were carved out of the Ottoman Empire in exchange for a promise that if you will fight for us, Britain and France, then we will give you states out of the Ottoman Empire, which will collapse, had long been collapsing, but now will collapse because they joined the Germans. So that's how those things came to be. Well, I told them all that, right? And I said, you know, you got to read a book before you make up your mind about stuff like this, and it'll take a year.
- [28:06]
Hugh Hewitt
And I hope they pick the piece to end all P, which is about our friend Churchill having the deciding vote on those maps. Don't go anywhere, America. I'll explain that on the other side. And a couple other things with Dr. Larry Orange accept the Hillsdale EDU or Q for hillsdale.com. stay with me. Welcome back, America. I'm Drew Hewitt. Dr. Arnold, I want to pick up on that last segment. I mentioned a book, a Peace to End the Peace to End All Peace. It was a story of the aftermath of World War I when Churchill took over the Colonial Office, settled the Irish Civil War and then went to find the ruins of the Ottoman Empire and drew the lines. And I can't remember the name of the Lady Edith something who was the mastermind, who worked with him. But did those kids know that Churchill was the mapmaker?
- [29:10]
Larry Arne
No, but remember, remember what one's education is like. First of all, when you get old like us, you know a lot and you know more about what you don't know than you used to when you're young. Like I said at one point in passing that the first Zionists in the late 19th century in Europe were not particularly religious people. And Israel is a very religious country now. But then the young man said, okay, then what's a Jew if they're not particularly religious? And I said that's such a great question because, you know, Christian Christianity is a religion of belief. If you believe you're a Christian, if you're not, you don't. And I said, so great question. I said, but what the Jews are, is a people. And they've been somehow kept themselves together for what is it now? It's call it 1500, you know, I
- [30:07]
Hugh Hewitt
was going to say 3500 to 4000 years. Yeah, yeah.
- [30:11]
Larry Arne
And they are a people, which means, by the way, that they are related, like a family and they are united by traditions and customs that have proved very resilient through every kind of change in the ancient city. Like if a city is destroyed, they destroy the temple and they sell the, they kill the men and sell the women and children into slavery and the city was no more. And that's not what happened to the Jews. You know, some of the, some of the greatest of the psalms are written in captivity. And you know, some of the greatest stories in the Old Testament is stories of their return after captivity. Nehemiah, Ezra and Nehemiah. Right. So they've always been what God calls a stiff neck people and they've held together. And you know, one of the reasons Hitler hated them was they laid claim to, you know, he didn't like Christians either. They laid claim to a God who was above him. He didn't like that. But he also didn't like them that they had some kind of international identity. Right. In other words, in whatever country you are, you can be a Jew by sort of family reasons and tradition reasons. In whatever country are you are, you can be a Christian. Indeed, if you read the New Testament, you'll find out that religious freedom is the fundamental freedom because Jesus doesn't set up a kingdom. So whatever kingdom you're in has got to leave you alone. And the acts of disobedience, there's a lot in the New Testament about you have to obey the law, but every time there's an in cling, in the Book of Acts, there's an act of disobedience, it's always because they tell the disciples, stop talking about this stuff. And they say, we won't got to. We are right and we must. You see. So the point is monotheism is perforce transnational and tyrants don't like it. Right. Because they don't like people having claims of authority outside them. And that's the problem. Right.
- [32:34]
Hugh Hewitt
I'm glad you had that. I'm glad you had that conversation with him. There has recently arisen in D.C. the buzz that Justice Alito is going to retire again. And I have my favorites. One of them is David Strauss, who's a judge up there in the 8th Circuit. And he was one of Trump's original picks. And he's an originalist, originalist Clarence Thomas clerk. And he's always right. Even when he's losing, he's right, he's in dissent, and he's always agreeing pretty much with Trump. And so I think he'll be on a short list. And then you got any particular reason to like. I said, well, he's Jewish. And they say, well, that's affirmative action. I said, no, I like a guy who goes to church every week and is aware of his past. And he had grandparents who survived the Holocaust. And I like the fact that he's both committed to his faith, but he's also committed to the Constitution. And we got to remind people it's perfectly possible to do both again and again and again and again. And so I hope your students walked away with that. We do have to come back to the decline of the Labour Party. So don't go anywhere, America, because there was an earthquake last week in the United Kingdom, a political earthquake, and Dr. Arndt knows more about that than anyone. So stay tuned to the Hillsdale Dialogue. Welcome back, America. I'm Hugh Hewitt, All Things Hillsdale over at hillsdale.edu. hugh for hillsdale.com Dr. Arndt, what happened to labor?
- [33:53]
Larry Arne
They got wiped out well, they're, you know, they're not very good. And these swings, you know, this is a big one, by the way. It, you know, they used to have. See, by the way, I know more about it than anyone except someone who knows a great deal about it, but I know a fair amount about it. They used to have this swingometer, right? And like. And it's. You know, it. All this is measured in seats, popular vote, you know, who gets the most pop. Which. Which individual gets the most popular vote. Not very much is decided in Britain that way. So if the public opinion loses two points, that translates into so many seats in so many swing districts. And so usually small change can make a big difference in majorities in Parliament. And these elections are local elections, councils elections and things like that. This was a big swing. This is a lot of points, right? And so it was just a wipeout. And it was a wipeout in Scotland and Wales especially, which are labor strongholds. England, the biggest of the parts of the United Kingdom are the Tory Conservative strongholds, except now they're weak there and reform is stronger. So the Reform and Tories didn't do great in Scotland or Wales. The Greens did great. A minor party and, you know, there'll be. Scottish Nationalist Party did better. And there'll be a resurrection of the idea of Scotland seceding from the United Kingdom if this continues on this path. That'll be the next thing I predict. And there's talk of it already. So I, you know, I think it's a mess. Right. And the question before the House, you just look at what's most likely is, can Nigel Farage and Reform make a political majority?
- [35:47]
Hugh Hewitt
Because if they do a deal with Badenoch, do you think? Because if those two, if Nigel Farage and Kemi Badenoch, who's the leader of the Tories, can make a deal to divide up the constituencies and not compete against each other. We have less than a minute. Does that happen? Can they agree on that? Because they could win in 2029 if that's the case.
- [36:07]
Larry Arne
Yeah, they might. They've done it before, by the way, and they felt betrayed. The Reform people felt betrayed by it. So there's an obstacle there. But Kimmy Badenoch is very good and, you know, and another. Another resistance, that is the Conservative Party in Britain is. Prides itself on being the oldest political party in the world. And so what a come down to make a deal with reform. And right now, reform's ahead in the pro. In the polls, it would probably mean Nigel Farage would be the Prime Minister.
- [36:40]
Hugh Hewitt
Not really a come down if you understand they're what the Tories ought to have become in their 10 years in government, but didn't because they were led less than brilliant statesman. Dr. Larry Orn thank you. We will talk again next week about commencements near and far, but especially at Hillsdale. And then we're back to Churchill. So don't, don't despair, you Churchill addicts. We'll be back with the memoir of the Second World War and their finest hour in two weeks.
- [37:11]
Podcast Announcer
Thanks for listening to the Hillsdale Dialogues, part of the History Hillsdale College Podcast Network. More episodes at podcast hillsdale. Edu or wherever you find your audio. For more information about Hillsdale College, head to Hillsdale.
- [37:28]
Hugh Hewitt
Eduardo.