A (4:13)

Exactly. I was going to say a whole generation of people has grown up now with no living memory of Saddam Huss. You know, wounds do heal. I'm talking metaphorically here. Societies heal after time passes. Maybe not entirely. Some traumas never fully go away. I was wondering, is Iraq still riven by sectarianism?

B (4:32)

Well, yes, but not as much. I mean, one question I always ask people when I visit Iraq is how many cross sectarian marriages have happened this year in your network of friends? And they'll always say, oh, yeah, you know, Sunnis and Shia are marrying each other left and right. It's actually not that uncommon. It's not unheard of for that to happen, but it also depends what part of the country you're in. We thought the sectarian system and sectarianism was long gone in a sense, before the rise of isis. But ISIS was able to take advantage of Sunni grievances and Anbar and in Mosul, and they were able to take control of a huge part of the country because sectarianism can't just be buried. And if you see what's going on in Syria, I imagine that for some Sunnis in Iraq, they must be looking at a Sunni in charge of Syria and thinking, gosh, why can't it be here as well? And they must take some inspiration from that. Whether that translates into violence, who knows. I certainly know that the Shia leaders in Baghdad are not thrilled about the rise of the new leader in Damascus, Al Shada. So even though they're trying to have normal relations, so it's not as apparent in day to day interactions, but I think it still exists.

A (5:41)

And one of my recent episodes was titled Dick Cheney's Ruinous Legacy.

B (5:46)

The read we get on the people.

A (5:48)

Of Iraq is there's no question about what they want.

B (5:50)

Get rid of Saddam Hussein and they will welcome as liberators the United States.

A (5:54)

From my perspective, I'm not an Iraqi. He was a disaster, what he stood for. But as you said, if you're a Kurd with a autonomous quasi state, you're probably not thinking about Dick Cheney the same way I am here in my comfortable studio in Washington. You know, my next question goes from sectarianism into federalism. If you were to take a map of sectarian Iraq and overlay the federal system that was created in the Constitution from, What was it, 2005?

B (6:22)

Well, basically the 30,000 foot of it is that you have the KRG, the Kurdistan Regional Government. So that's this quasi state, it's part of federal Iraq, it's not independent. But you know, you have to cross a border to get into it. You have to cross a border to get out of it. And it feels like a different country. If you didn't tell someone it was part of Iraq, they would think it's a completely different country. And that's this semi autonomous self governing system that the Kurds have. There's two main factions of Kurds that have strongholds in different parts of the krg. Then there's the rest of Iraq, let's just call it Arab Iraq. So you have the Sunni strongholds in Anbar Province, that's where the famous Fallujah is. And in the north you have Mosul. And then you have the Shia south. I mean, the majority of the country is still Shia. And that the Shia part of the country really begins in Baghdad and extends all the way to the south to Basra. So it's quite expansive. Of course you have these coalition politics like you have in any parliamentary system and they form blocks and they make alliances. And so you'll have Sunni parties make alliances with stronger Shia alliances. And Kurds choose which Shia alliances to partner with as well. So basically you have the smaller minority political blocks where factions will choose which Shias they want to back. And within the Shia political landscape you have right now you have the coordination framework. That's the current prime minister's framework. It's like a big umbrella group of Shia parties. The coordination framework is sort of unified, but not really within that. There's factions that are very close to Iran and there's factions that are a little bit more moderate, like Sudani himself. Some of them have their own militias. And then the next biggest group, which I have to mention is the Saudi Arists. So the followers of Muqtada Al Sar. Although Moqtada Al Sadr in recent years has, has not been very political. But he used to be.

A (8:17)

Yeah. His grouping boycotted the elections. Why was that?

B (8:21)

Well, there's many different theories. He feels that changes in how elections are determined in certain constitutional rules in Iraq were unfair. There's also people who think that he's just playing the long game. He is from a clerical family, although he has an almost cult like following, it dirties his hands a little bit to be so involved in the day to day politics. And he might think that he has more long term power stepping back and trying to do things behind the scenes or just waiting out the dysfunction than contesting in the political landscape, especially one that Iran backed. Shia militias have a lot of power.

A (9:00)

Sure. He became a household name Muqtada Al Sadr during the worst of the insurgency. So what about isis, which has been driven underground, what is left of it? Did it have any influence on the alcohol of the election?

B (9:14)

No, I don't think ISIS is a huge factor anymore. They're a factor in terms of the US Iraq relationship. I think they're in the back of the mind of Iraqi leaders. They're not completely down and out. These cells pop out here and there. I think Iraq's leadership really looks at them like it's almost like the country has cancer, but it's in remission. You don't really have to worry about it. But you got to go for your checkup and make sure that it's not metastasizing because once it does, it's too late.

A (9:42)

So as mentioned, the Iraqi constitution was set up to create a federal system. It would not have a strong central government in the election. Prime Minister Mohammed Al Sudani. His political bloc won the Most seats, about 45 or 46 out of about 300 some odd seats in the parliament. What was different about his campaign this time around compared to 2021 when he was elevated to power by pro Iran parties and militias?

B (10:10)

The two big differences this time is some of those pro Iran factions, you know, those factions within his own coalition don't necessarily want to see him be prime minister again. That's one factor. The second factor is he was really especially internationally, but even in Iraq, he was an unknown the first time around. Now he's a known face. One thing that was unique about Suidani is he was the only or he was the first post Saddam Iraqi leader who hadn't spent the Saddam years To.

A (10:38)

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