Podcast Summary: "Dick Cheney’s Ruinous Legacy"

History As It Happens – November 7, 2025
Host: Martin Di Caro
Guest: Jeremy Suri, Professor of History and Public Affairs, University of Texas at Austin

Episode Overview

This episode of History As It Happens dives deep into the political legacy of Dick Cheney, focusing on his influence over American executive power, foreign policy, and the unintended consequences that helped pave the way for Donald Trump’s presidency. Through a conversation with historian Jeremy Suri, host Martin Di Caro scrutinizes Cheney’s transformation of the vice presidency, his role in the Iraq War, advocacy for the “unitary executive,” and ongoing impacts on U.S. democracy and global leadership.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Cheney’s Early Political Career

• Origins in the Republican Party: Entered politics during the Ford administration and rose through the ranks.
  • “His political career starts in the late 1960s... He goes to Washington on a fellowship ... and then he never left Washington.” – Jeremy Suri [13:04]
  • Saw the Republican party transform from the Ford era into the Reagan era.
• Conservative Credentials:
  • Wyoming background influenced his small-government, low-tax views.
  • Consistent support for Reagan-era policies: “He was a believer in small government...low taxation...strong national defense...” – Suri [14:32]
  • Voting record reflected mainstream 1980s conservatism but no major legislative achievements.
• Rise to Power: Recognized as a shrewd negotiator and party leader, despite lacking a large constituency: “He was the lone member of Congress from Wyoming...to get reelected in Wyoming...this is a state of what, 500,000 people.” – Di Caro/Suri [16:39–17:10]

Reinventing the Vice Presidency Under George W. Bush

• Unprecedented Influence: Cheney transformed the Vice Presidency into a central policy role.
  • “He made the Vice President more of a day to day policy player...often...the last person the President talked to before he made a decision.” – Suri [17:59]
  • Acted as policy gatekeeper, especially on national security.
  • Compared to Henry Kissinger in his behind-the-scenes influence [18:57].
• Comparison Across Administrations: Less influential as Secretary of Defense under George H.W. Bush, but pivotal in George W.'s presidency.

Architect of Expanding Executive Power (Unitary Executive)

• Roots in Watergate and Iran-Contra:
  • Early disillusionment with Congressional oversight: “Part of it grew out of a long-standing frustration...of working for presidents who were constrained by Congress, constrained by bureaucracy, constrained by public opinion.” – Suri [23:53]
  • Cheney believed in restoring and expanding executive authority, especially after what he saw as post-Watergate and Vietnam-era overcorrections.
  • The Iran-Contra scandal solidified Cheney’s view that the presidency should have near-exclusive national security authority [13:13, 39:12, 40:38].
• War on Terror as a Crucible:
  • Used 9/11 as a justification to implement his unitary executive philosophy: “No one since the end of the Cold War does more to expand presidential power before Trump than Dick Cheney.” – Suri [25:13]
• Direct Impact on Trump: Cheney’s expansion of presidential power laid the groundwork for Trump’s more authoritarian use of the executive [25:13, 41:58].

The Iraq War & Misleading the Public

• Decision Making and Rhetoric:
  • Cheney publicly and forcefully asserted—contrary to intelligence doubts—that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction [06:12].
    • “Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction.” – Cheney [06:12]
  • Promoted the myth of an Iraq–al Qaeda connection and claimed U.S. troops would be “welcomed as liberators,” a statement that became infamous [07:32, 29:35].
• Retrospective Contradictions: Contrasted warnings from earlier in his career (1994), where Cheney described a post-Saddam Iraq as a “quagmire” [07:58].
• Enabling Torture & Rendition:
  • Key driver behind U.S. torture policy and extraordinary rendition.
    • “He urged the President...to permit the rendition and torturous interrogation of enemy captives in CIA prisons abroad.” – Di Caro, quoting Melvin Leffler [22:22]
    • “You have said that you do not believe that waterboarding, for example, was torture.” – CBS Face the Nation [09:05]
• “Missionary” Lying vs. Reckless Authority:
  • Suri: Cheney believed so deeply in Saddam's threat that he saw misleading the public as justified by a "larger truth" [28:31].
  • “They believed...it was okay to cut corners...because the larger truth was what was important for them. And that’s the kind of lying that it was.” – Suri [28:31]

Lasting Domestic and Global Consequences

• Enduring Policy Structures:
  • Surveillance, Authorization for Use of Military Force (AUMF), and executive prerogatives remain largely untouched, even by subsequent Democratic administrations [34:43].
• Iraq’s Ongoing Struggles:
  • U.S. invasion failed to establish a stable, democratic Iraq; persistent corruption, Iranian influence, and violence remain [35:44].
  • “Iraq was not transformed, and I think till the day he died, Cheney still believed that he did the right thing there, that it worked.” – Di Caro [35:50]
• Absence of Accountability:
  • Despite reputational damage for Bush and Cheney, there has been little true accountability for the war and its aftermath [32:01–33:29].
  • “There are still people at Guantanamo as we speak...kinds of surveillance...being used that come out of the Patriot act and the AUMF.” – Suri [33:30]

Cheney’s Legacy: From Ruinous War to the Road to Trump

• An Enabler of Trump’s Authoritarianism:
  • Suri: “Cheney created an environment that made it easier for Trump to argue for an authoritarian president...enabled the authoritarian impulses of Donald Trump.” [42:38]
• Contrast with Trump:
  • Cheney was “a deep believer in expertise and knowledge,” as opposed to Trump’s “reckless” leadership and disregard for expertise [42:38].
• The Collapse of GOP Norms:
  • Cheney and Liz Cheney ostracized from their party over anti-Trump stances [50:13–50:55].
  • “It would have been crazy to think Dick Cheney would ever vote for a Democrat for president.” – Di Caro [49:19]
  • “It reveals…how radical Trump is or how not conservative he is...He did not believe in creating cults of personality.” – Suri [49:19]
• Cravenness for Power Among Republicans:
  • Rising tolerance for anti-democratic behavior to maintain power, marked by Liz Cheney’s ouster [50:19–51:42].
  • “That’s putting yourself before the nation at a key moment...Republicans will live in ignominy for that.” – Suri [50:55]
• Connection to Ongoing Institutional Crisis:
  • “They had lied about weapons of mass destruction...That empowered Trump’s anti-elitism more than anything else.” – Suri [45:44]
  • Erosion of trust in American institutions, rise of populism, and intensifying executive authority traced to the choices and rhetoric forged in Cheney’s tenure.

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Cheney's Power and the Unitary Executive:
  • “No one since the end of the Cold War does more to expand presidential power before Trump than Dick Cheney.” – Jeremy Suri [25:13]
• On Executing the Iraq War:
  • “Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction...They will welcome as liberators the United States.” – Dick Cheney [06:12, 07:32]
• Cheney on the Dangers of Invading Iraq (1994):
  • “Once you got to Iraq and took it over...then what are you going to put in its place?...It’s a quagmire.” – Dick Cheney [07:58]
• On Post-9/11 Mentality:
  • “He was traumatized by that. And it led him to dig deeper into his frustrations with limits on executive authority...” – Suri [23:53]
• Lies and Larger Truths:
  • “They believed...it was okay to cut corners and even say some things that were not quite true because the larger truth was what was important for them.” – Jeremy Suri [28:31]
• On Accountability and Legacy:
  • “So in some ways, Cheney’s actions produced Barack Obama.” – Jeremy Suri [33:34]
  • “The continued misuse of power is actually what is most striking to me.” – Suri [33:30]
• On Cheney and Trump:
  • “Cheney saw Trump as destroying all of that for corrupt, narcissistic, egotistical purposes. And January 6th was the sort of center of that...” – Suri [49:19]

Key Timestamps

• Origins of Cheney’s Political Philosophy: [13:04–15:19]
• Rise in the Reagan Era: [15:12–16:39]
• Transformation of Vice Presidency: [17:59–18:57]
• Cheney’s Role in the Bush Administration: [20:29–22:22]
• Promotion of Torture, Rendition, and War: [22:22–23:53], [06:12–07:32], [28:31]
• Unitary Executive and Iran Contra Lessons: [13:13], [39:12], [40:38]
• Foundations for Trump’s Authoritarianism: [25:13], [42:38]
• GOP and Institutional Consequences: [50:13–51:42]
• Lasting Consequences of Iraq War: [35:44–36:00]
• Split in Conservative Movement: [43:56–45:44]

Flow & Tone

The discussion is direct, historically rigorous, and unsparing in its critique, yet careful to contextualize Cheney as a product of his times and ideologies. Suri, as a historian, provides analytical distance while Di Caro interrogates legacy and accountability in candid, sometimes passionate terms. The overall tone is reflective, critical, and urgent about the stakes for American democracy.

Summary

This episode positions Dick Cheney as a defining architect of modern American executive power and foreign interventionism. By reshaping the vice presidency, driving the U.S. into Iraq under false pretenses, and institutionalizing practices like torture, Cheney left a controversial, deeply influential legacy. His belief in maximal presidential power and frequent willingness to bypass norms or even mislead the public, the show argues, directly enabled the emergence of a more authoritarian executive branch—culminating in the Trump presidency. Despite late-career condemnation of Trump and the January 6 attack, Cheney’s legacy persists in expanded presidential authority and fractured institutional trust, with ongoing consequences for both America and the world.