History As It Happens: "Is It Genocide?" – Detailed Summary

Episode Release Date: December 3, 2024
Host: Martin Di Caro
Guest: Omer Bartov, Professor of Holocaust and Genocide Studies at Brown University

Introduction: Unpacking Accusations of Genocide

In the episode titled "Is It Genocide?" hosted by Martin Di Caro, the discussion centers around the International Criminal Court's (ICC) controversial arrest warrants issued for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, former Defense Minister Yoav Gallant, and Hamas military chief. The charges leveled against them pertain to war crimes and crimes against humanity, sparking intense debates over whether these actions constitute genocide. The episode delves into historical contexts, legal definitions, and personal insights to explore this grave accusation.

ICC's Arrest Warrants: War Crimes or Genocide?

At [00:00], Martin Di Caro introduces the main topic: the ICC's decision to issue arrest warrants for Netanyahu and Gallant, accusing them of crimes against humanity. Omer Bartov elaborates at [00:11], explaining that the charges involve war crimes and the intentional starvation of civilians as a method of warfare ("Karim Khan: Starvation of civilians as a method of warfare..." [00:19]).

The ICC prosecutor, Karim Khan, emphasizes that while Israel has the right to defend its population, it must comply with international humanitarian laws ([04:49]). Netanyahu vehemently rejects these charges, labeling the ICC's actions as antisemitic and likening the situation to the false Dreyfus trial ([05:11]).

Omer Bartov ([06:53]) critically assesses the ICC's charges, noting that the court focused on "the most easily provable" aspects, such as the denial of food and medicine to Palestinians, rather than more contentious issues like indiscriminate bombing. He suggests that the ICC avoided labeling the actions as genocide due to the higher burden of proof required under the UN Convention.

Defining Genocide: Legal and Historical Perspectives

The episode delves into the stringent legal definition of genocide as outlined by the UN Convention of 1948. At [05:45], Di Caro questions whether the term "genocide" is applicable in the context of Gaza, given its historical association with the Nazi extermination of Jews during World War II. Omer Bartov argues that while the current ICC charges do not explicitly use the term genocide, the actions described align with the UN's definition, including the intent to destroy a national, ethnical, racial, or religious group in whole or in part ([11:38]).

Bartov ([17:09]) contends that Israel's actions in Gaza—such as the systematic killing of civilians, destruction of infrastructure, and making the region uninhabitable—meet the criteria for genocide under the existing legal framework. He emphasizes that the intent behind these actions is to eliminate the Palestinian population as a distinct group, rather than merely committing war crimes.

Historical Context: The 1956 Suez Crisis and Moshe Dayan's Legacy

To provide historical context, the episode recounts the 1956 Suez Crisis, where Israel, allied with Great Britain and France, attacked Egypt and captured the Sinai Peninsula in less than a week ([02:00]). General Moshe Dayan, a key military leader, delivered a speech expressing both a commitment to defending Israel and an understanding of Palestinian grievances ([02:26], [24:35]).

Omer Bartov highlights the duality in Dayan's speech—acknowledging the Palestinians' loss of land while simultaneously advocating for perpetual military vigilance ([24:35]). This historical perspective serves to illustrate the longstanding tensions and deep-seated attitudes that continue to influence the current conflict.

Contemporary Statements: Incitement to Genocide

The conversation moves to recent statements by Israeli officials that have been perceived as incitements towards genocide. For instance, defense minister declaring Hamas fighters as "human animals" and Netanyahu referencing the biblical call to exterminate Amalek's men and women ([46:49]). Bartov argues that such rhetoric dehumanizes Palestinians and paves the way for their systematic destruction, fitting the mold of genocidal intent ([47:58]).

He emphasizes that these statements are not isolated but come from individuals in positions of executive authority, thereby legitimizing and encouraging military actions against Palestinians ([46:49]). This rhetoric fosters a culture where treating Palestinians as non-human becomes acceptable, aligning with historical patterns observed in other genocidal regimes.

Personal Insights: Interactions with Israeli Soldiers

Omer Bartov shares his personal experiences interacting with Israeli soldiers during his visit to Israel. These soldiers, many of whom have served in Gaza, exhibit a mix of rage, vengeance, and denial regarding their actions. At [34:28], Bartov describes how these soldiers vehemently reject any notion of committing war crimes, asserting, "We are not murderers."

This denial is juxtaposed with their acknowledgment of the systematic destruction wrought upon Gaza, revealing a deep cognitive dissonance. Bartov fears that such ideologies are breeding a new generation of political soldiers who believe in the necessity of brutalizing their own society in the pursuit of security ([36:34], [39:27]).

Comparisons to Historical Genocides: Wehrmacht and Beyond

Drawing parallels to his research on Nazi Germany, Bartov reflects on the conditioning of soldiers to dehumanize their enemies, which facilitates atrocities. He recounts his attempt to warn Israeli Defense Minister Yitzhak Rabin about his findings on the Wehrmacht's role in the Holocaust, only to receive a curt dismissal ([42:10]).

This comparison underscores the dangerous trajectory of desensitization and dehumanization in military conduct, echoing past genocides where such conditioning led to widespread atrocities. Bartov warns that without intervention, Israel may follow a similar path toward authoritarianism and systemic oppression ([49:57]).

The Path Forward: Risks of Authoritarianism and Apartheid

In the final segments, Bartov articulates his concerns about Israel's future. He warns that continued policies of oppression and dehumanization could lead to Israel transforming into an apartheid state, further isolating itself internationally and eroding its democratic foundations ([50:45]).

He foresees a bleak future where Israel's economy deteriorates, political freedoms are curtailed, and the country becomes an authoritarian regime. This trajectory, he argues, could persist for decades, ultimately leading to self-destruction as the cycle of violence and repression continues unchecked ([52:45]).

Conclusion: A Call for Reflection and Change

The episode concludes with a somber reflection on the cyclical nature of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Omer Bartov emphasizes the urgent need for both sides to recognize each other's humanity and seek sustainable peace. Without such recognition and a shift away from dehumanizing rhetoric, the region remains trapped in a cycle of violence that threatens the very existence of both peoples.

Martin Di Caro wraps up by highlighting the importance of historical perspective in understanding and addressing current events, reinforcing the podcast's mission to illuminate how the past shapes the present ([53:26]).

Notable Quotes:

• Karim Khan (ICC Prosecutor) [04:49]: "Israel, like all states, has the right to defend its population. It has every right to ensure the return of hostages that have been criminally and callously taken. Those rights, however, do not absolve Israel of its obligations to comply with international humanitarian law."

• Benjamin Netanyahu [00:28]: "We issue millions of text messages, phone call leaflets to the citizens of Gaza to get them out of harm's way, while the Hamas terrorists do everything in their power to keep them in harm's way."

• Omer Bartov [11:38]: "I think there's sufficient Evidence to show that Israeli leaders had shown intent, had implemented that intent, and have systematically used policies and used military actions to implement the genocide or campaign in Gaza."

• Omer Bartov [39:27]: "They appear to be potentially the future political soldiers of another kind of regime in Israel that is right now potentially in the making. These are people who really believe in what they do. They are not just hired goons. They really are determined to create a better world. And as they're doing it, they're destroying their own country."

Final Thoughts

This episode of "History As It Happens" serves as a profound exploration of the accusations of genocide against Israeli leaders, intertwining historical analysis with contemporary events. Through Omer Bartov's expert insights, listeners gain a deeper understanding of the complexities surrounding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and the dire implications of unchecked military aggression and dehumanizing rhetoric.

For those seeking to comprehend the intricate dynamics of historical events shaping today's world, this episode offers a compelling and critical perspective.