History As It Happens

Episode: Marwan Barghouti and the Crisis of Palestinian Nationalism

Host: Martin Di Caro
Guest: Khaled Elgindy (Senior Fellow, Quincy Institute, former advisor to Palestinian negotiators)
Date: December 19, 2025

Overview

This episode tackles the life, legacy, and political significance of Marwan Barghouti, a Palestinian leader often called the "Palestinian Mandela" and “the world’s most important prisoner.” Currently serving a life sentence in an Israeli prison, Barghouti remains a central figure in the Palestinian national movement, with supporters and detractors on both sides of the Israeli-Palestinian divide. The episode traces Barghouti’s journey from his youth in the West Bank to his present-day status as a symbol of unity and resistance, while also examining the broader crisis of Palestinian nationalism and the possibility of leadership renewal.

Key Discussion Points

1. Barghouti’s Political Legacy and Current Relevance

• Popular Support and Symbolic Power: Barghouti is widely regarded among Palestinians as a living legend, embodying both the suffering and aspirations of his people. He has consistently ranked as the most popular choice for Palestinian leadership in opinion polls, even after decades in prison.

  “He almost has a kind of mythical place in the minds of Palestinians… he occupies this place as a kind of legend.”
  — Khaled Elgindy [14:45]

• Relationships with Israelis: Prior to his arrest, Barghouti was respected by parts of the Israeli elite as a figure capable of negotiating and delivering agreements. He is fluent in Hebrew, has longstanding relationships with Israeli officials, and is viewed by some as a pragmatic interlocutor.

  “Military folks… respect people who can produce results, they can influence outcomes. And I think they saw him as, as that sort of person.”
  — Khaled Elgindy [36:06]

2. Ideology: Not a Pacifist, Not a Terrorist

• Support for Two-State Solution: Barghouti has historically backed a two-state solution and diplomacy, while also championing Palestinian resistance—sometimes violently—against the occupation.

  “He is not a pacifist, but he believes in diplomacy. But he also believes that occasionally violent resistance is warranted, especially when the occupation itself is maintained through violence.”
  — Khaled Elgindy [11:31]

• Controversy Around Conviction: Barghouti’s life sentence, resulting from his alleged organizing of deadly attacks in the Second Intifada, is contentious. Critics of the Israeli justice process point to lack of due process and questionable evidence.

  “The evidence that he was directly involved in organizing attacks on Israeli civilians is pretty scant. His conviction relied on things like secret evidence...”
  — Khaled Elgindy [16:35]

• Barghouti himself has always denied ordering attacks on civilians:

  “I am a peace man. I was trying to do everything for the peace between the two peoples.”
  — Marwan Barghouti (archival audio) [04:34]

3. Formative Years and Early Activism

• Background in the Communist Party: As a teenager under Israeli occupation, Barghouti first aligned with the Communist Party, which had connections to the Israeli Communists and supported some relations with Israel—unlike Fatah or the PFLP.

  “The Communist Party… were generally not opposed to Israel’s existence… they had relationships with the Israeli Communist Party that was also represented in the Israeli Parliament."
  — Khaled Elgindy [25:29]

• Political Awakening and Imprisonment: Arrested at 18, Barghouti endured abuse in Israeli custody—a formative, politicizing experience.

  “He was a voracious reader from what I can gather and he read quite a lot about Israeli politics and society. I don’t know if I would use the word ‘radicalized’. It certainly contributed to his politicization…”
  — Khaled Elgindy [29:19]

4. Role in the Two Intifadas

• First Intifada: Barghouti emerged as a local Fatah leader in a movement that was primarily nonviolent and gained global sympathy.

  “The first intifada was, as Rashid Khalidi explains, was largely nonviolent and for that reason quite effective… All of that was subsumed under this thing called the Intifada. That had nothing to do with violence.”
  — Khaled Elgindy [34:29]

• Second Intifada & Downfall: Acted as a leading figure in the uprising’s escalation from nonviolent resistance to armed struggle. Helped set up Fatah’s military wing, Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, which increasingly targeted both military and, controversially, civilian targets.

  “He openly supported armed resistance against soldiers, against, you know, Israeli military installations. … He supported a lot of the armed actions of the second intifada, including when Palestinian police forces turned their guns on the Israeli army.”
  — Khaled Elgindy [40:18]

• His calculus:

  “I’m not a terrorist, but neither am I a pacifist.”
  — Marwan Barghouti (quoted by Elgindy, original statement) [42:25]

5. Prisoner and Political Absence

• Why Israel Won’t Release Him: For Netanyahu and the political right in Israel, Barghouti’s leadership potential is too dangerous—he could galvanize and unify Palestinians, or credibly negotiate.

  “They want to maintain the narrative that there is no partner on the other side, that there are no credible Palestinian leaders. … I think Marwan’s continued detention is purely political at this stage.”
  — Khaled Elgindy [15:32]

• Comparison with Other Released Prisoners: Israel often cites the case of Yahya Sinwar (a Hamas leader released in a swap who later orchestrated major attacks) as a justification to keep Barghouti incarcerated—a comparison Elgindy rejects as inaccurate, given Barghouti’s track record and views.

  “He’s not someone who I think would go out and plot, you know, the mass killing of Israeli civilians.”
  — Khaled Elgindy [17:24]

• Physical and Public Diminishment: Recent images shared by Israeli far-right minister Itamar Ben Gvir aimed to publicly humiliate a frail, aging Barghouti, signaling Israeli dominance.

  “The images… were really striking in that Marwan Barghouti looked, it was almost unrecognizable…. He looked meek. And I think that was what Ben Gvir was trying to project. … ‘We Israelis can break your spirit.’”
  — Khaled Elgindy [12:48]

6. Crisis of Palestinian Nationalism

• Leadership Vacuum: Palestinians currently lack a unifying, legitimate leader. Mahmoud Abbas remains unpopular, and the PA is in crisis.

  “He [Barghouti] consistently comes out on top of any other candidate as President of the Palestinian Authority or even as head of the PLO. … I think Marwan is the anti Abbas. He’s everything that Mahmoud Abbas is not.”
  — Khaled Elgindy [47:25]

• Potential Role If Released: Barghouti could act as a unifying transitional figure—a “captain” guiding Palestinians through a period of existential crisis, though not necessarily as a long-term ruler.

  “Marwan may not be the savior, but he could be the captain of a ship who can weather the storm over the next few years until the ship can be repaired.”
  — Khaled Elgindy [48:41]

• Prospect of Release: Elgindy argues release is possible only under a radically different Israeli government and significant international (especially American) pressure.

  “I can envision a scenario in which Marwan is released, but it would require a very different Israeli government than the one that exists now…”
  — Khaled Elgindy [44:58]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Security will be achieved by one way, by one way, by peace. And peace will be achieved by the end of the occupation. No peace, no security with occupation."
  — Marwan Barghouti (archival audio) [04:44]

• “Public humiliation. … Ben Gvir’s MO… is to humiliate Palestinians… he sort of reveled in ramping up the pressure… on diminishing their food rations, on diminishing their ability to interact with other prisoners…”
  — Khaled Elgindy [12:48]

• Host: “If you’re under military occupation, what are the acceptable ways to resist? …Terrorism is against civilians… The first Intifada wasn’t like that. It wasn’t known for suicide bombings.”
  — Martin Di Caro [34:03]

• “Marwan, if he’s released and if he’s in a mental state that he’s capable of doing this, then I think he could play that sort of transitional role to help Palestinians weather the current storm and to come out on the other side.”
  — Khaled Elgindy [48:41]

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |-----------------------------------------------------|------------------| | Barghouti’s contemporary status in Palestinian politics | [03:13], [11:31] | | Conviction, trial, and symbolism | [04:28], [06:38] | | Early life under Jordanian & Israeli rule | [18:16], [23:11] | | Communist Party activism | [25:29] | | First Intifada and Fatah leadership | [27:03], [27:33] | | Radicalizing imprisonment | [28:30] | | Relationship with Arafat, Oslo years | [32:12], [35:23] | | Second Intifada: escalation and militancy | [40:18], [42:25] | | Comparison to Hamas and Sinwar | [16:16], [17:24] | | Images from prison, Ben Gvir incident | [12:48] | | Discussion of possible release | [44:58] | | Barghouti as possible transitional leader | [47:25], [48:41] |

Episode Tone & Style

The conversation is deeply analytical, sober, and historical. Martin Di Caro grounds the topic with sharp questions, while Khaled Elgindy offers rich historical context, insider perspectives, and challenges prevailing narratives. The dialogue weaves personal stories and political dynamics together, aiming to fill gaps in understanding about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict through Barghouti’s life.

Conclusion

Barghouti’s fate continues to symbolize the complexities and crises of Palestinian nationalism: the tension between armed and diplomatic resistance, the ongoing fragmentation of Palestinian leadership, and the persistent search for unity and legitimacy. His continued imprisonment signals Israel’s fear—and perhaps recognition—of his potential as a national unifier. The prospects for his release remain slim under current conditions, but his name persists as a beacon, or at least a rallying point, for Palestinians yearning for change.