History As It Happens – Episode: On Virtue

Release Date: February 18, 2025
Host: Martin Di Caro
Guest: Joseph Ellis, Pulitzer Prize-Winning Historian

Introduction

In the episode titled "On Virtue," Martin Di Caro engages in a profound dialogue with esteemed historian Joseph Ellis, exploring the concept of virtue from the 18th-century American founding to its implications in contemporary politics. The conversation delves into the erosion of civic virtue, the challenges posed by modern governance under the Trump administration, and the enduring lessons from America's revolutionary past.

The Trump Administration and Executive Orders

Diving into the current political landscape, Di Caro and Ellis critically assess President Donald Trump’s extensive use of executive orders. Di Caro references Trump’s aggressive agenda, highlighting his attempts to dismantle the federal bureaucracy and reshape government operations.

Donald Trump (00:01:53): "In order to make America great and glorious again. I am tonight announcing my candidacy for President of the United States."

Ellis explains how Trump’s actions align with the Project 2025 blueprint, aiming to destroy the administrative state. He underscores the alarming pace and breadth of executive orders that seek to eviscerate the federal workforce and reshape governmental policies, often at odds with Trump’s campaign promises.

Constitutional Crisis and Separation of Powers

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the potential constitutional crisis triggered by the President’s overreach. Di Caro introduces historical parallels, drawing comparisons to President Nixon’s constitutional challenges during Watergate.

Joseph Ellis (08:55): "The Trump agenda... is very much following the agenda of Project 2025... establishing executive power at a level that violates the core values of the American founding."

Ellis emphasizes that current Supreme Court decisions have inadvertently placed the President above the law, a departure from the Constitution’s design of separation of powers. This shift, he argues, threatens the foundational principles of republican governance.

Civic Virtue in the 18th Century vs. Modern America

Transitioning to historical perspectives, Ellis introduces his upcoming book, Our Great Contradiction, which examines the triumphs and tragic failures of the American founders, particularly their inability to abolish slavery and achieve just relations with Native Americans.

Joseph Ellis (06:46): "Our Great Contradiction, the tragic side of the American Founding, that is, while we win independence... there's a failure to end slavery... and a failure to reach a just accommodation with the Native Americans."

Ellis contrasts the elitist concept of civic virtue held by the founders—with its emphasis on disinterestedness and public virtue—against the current political climate, where self-interest and partisanship often overshadow the common good.

Erosion of Republican Virtue and Popular Opinion

The conversation further explores how the decline in civic education and the entrenchment of misinformation have undermined republican virtues. Ellis laments that modern Americans, plagued by cynicism and mistrust, are increasingly vulnerable to leaders who exploit these weaknesses.

Joseph Ellis (12:04): "There are several things in the Constitution... that say that any act by the President that is imperial or akin to George III is illegal."

He critiques the Republican Party’s alignment with Trump, suggesting that this association has alienated a significant portion of the electorate, thereby weakening the party’s foundational support and adherence to constitutional norms.

Historical Lessons and Modern Implications

Ellis draws poignant lessons from the founding generation’s emphasis on virtue, illustrating how leaders like John Adams exemplified integrity by prioritizing the public interest over personal ambition.

Joseph Ellis (21:11): "All the people who are voting for all of these unqualified candidates... are behaving without virtue because they are saying, I better do this or otherwise Trump's going to primary me."

This historical lens serves as a cautionary tale for contemporary governance, where the lack of virtuous leadership can lead to political instability and constitutional dilemmas.

The Role of Education and Civic Engagement

A critical point raised is the failure of the educational system to instill a robust understanding of American history and civic responsibility. Ellis highlights that the current electorate, with limited educational attainment, is more susceptible to misinformation and demagogic leadership.

Joseph Ellis (22:06): "The voting electorate is perhaps the most uneducated electorate in the Western world... vulnerable to all kinds of misinformation."

He advocates for mandatory national service as a means to foster civic virtue and public engagement, suggesting that such initiatives could rejuvenate a sense of responsibility and community among citizens.

Enduring Fragility of the Republic

Discussing the fragility of the American republic, Ellis reflects on historical fears that a large republic could not sustain itself without a foundation of civic virtue.

Martin Di Caro (19:19): "Republics... were very fragile polities, extremely liable to corruption."

He warns that without the ethical commitment of its leaders and citizens, the republic is susceptible to corruption and authoritarian tendencies, drawing parallels to the Trumpian approach to governance.

Impacts of Misinformation and Modern Media

Towards the episode's conclusion, Di Caro touches upon the dangers of misinformation, exemplified by figures like Elon Musk, who propagate falsehoods on influential platforms, thereby undermining public trust in factual discourse.

Martin Di Caro (33:43): "He just recklessly spreads lies to millions of people in an instant."

Ellis agrees, noting that the internet and social media have transformed truth into a transactional commodity, complicating efforts to maintain informational integrity.

Conclusion

Wrapping up, Di Caro and Ellis underscore the urgent need to revitalize civic virtue and educate the electorate to preserve the American republic. They reflect on the lessons from the founding generation, urging contemporary society to uphold the ethical standards that once bound the fledgling nation together.

Joseph Ellis (26:02): "The current members of the court believe that they're above the law and therefore the President should be, too."

As America approaches its 250th anniversary of independence, the episode serves as a call to action for citizens and leaders alike to recommit to the principles of virtue and public service that are essential for the nation's enduring success.

Key Takeaways

• Executive Overreach: The Trump administration's extensive use of executive orders challenges the constitutional balance of powers, risking a constitutional crisis.

• Civic Virtue Decline: There is a notable erosion of civic virtue in modern American politics, contrasting sharply with the 18th-century emphasis on disinterested public service.

• Educational Failures: The lack of robust civic education contributes to voter vulnerability and susceptibility to misinformation.

• Historical Parallels: Lessons from the founding generation highlight the importance of ethical leadership and citizen engagement in sustaining a republic.

• Modern Challenges: The rise of misinformation and authoritarian tendencies poses significant threats to the integrity and functionality of American governance.

Notable Quotes

• Donald Trump (01:12): "We have been through together, we stand on the verge of the four greatest years in American history. You watch. It's going to be so good, it's going to be so much fun."

• Joseph Ellis (08:55): "The Trump agenda... is very much following the agenda of Project 2025... establishing executive power at a level that violates the core values of the American founding."

• Joseph Ellis (21:11): "All the people who are voting for all of these unqualified candidates... are behaving without virtue because they are saying, I better do this or otherwise Trump's going to primary me."

• Joseph Ellis (26:02): "The current members of the court believe that they're above the law and therefore the President should be, too."

Final Thoughts

"On Virtue" offers a compelling exploration of America's historical values and their relevance in today's political climate. Through insightful analysis and engaging dialogue, Martin Di Caro and Joseph Ellis illuminate the critical need for a resurgence of civic virtue to navigate the challenges facing the modern republic.

For more in-depth discussions and historical analyses, subscribe to Martin Di Caro’s newsletter @historyasithappens.com, and stay tuned for upcoming episodes, including a three-part series on the Russo-Ukrainian War.