History As It Happens — "Party of Reagan"
Host: Martin Di Caro
Guest: Max Boot
Date: November 28, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode of History As It Happens critically examines the modern Republican party's inheritance of "Reaganism"—the politics, persona, and legacy of President Ronald Reagan. Host Martin Di Caro and historian Max Boot—author of Reagan: His Life and Legend—explore how Reagan’s various legacies have shaped, and sometimes contradicted, the conservative movement, especially as it has careened from Reagan’s brand of optimism and pragmatism to the populist, grievance-driven politics associated with Donald Trump.

Together, they discuss the mythologizing of Reagan, the gatekeeping of extremism on the right, how policy and rhetoric shifted under Reagan, the through line from Reagan to Trump (and divergences), and the impact of conservative judicial strategies, economic inequality, and populism in American politics. The conversation places Reaganism as both origin and foil for today’s right-wing politics, delving into history’s paradoxes and the present’s crises.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Collapse of Gatekeeping and the Rise of Trumpism

(12:13–15:22)

• Max Boot situates recent far-right controversies—like Tucker Carlson’s interview with white supremacist Nick Fuentes—as outgrowths of long-contested elements within the American right.
• Boot traces a direct line from the presence of extremist groups (John Birch Society, QAnon, militia movement) to the mainstreaming of these ideas due to Trump’s ascent, noting the role of social media and diminished content moderation in amplifying hate and conspiracy.
• Quote:
  • "It's been a constant struggle to kind of keep down the white nationalists, the xenophobes, the conspiracy mongers... but I think the attempt to keep them out of the mainstream of the Republican party collapsed in 2016." (Max Boot, 12:50)

Reagan’s Contradictions: Inclusion, Bigotry, Pragmatism

(16:17–18:36)

• Boot details Reagan’s complex legacy: openly pro-immigrant, anti-antisemitism, but also willing to use coded racist appeals and oppose civil rights advancements when politically expedient.
• While Reagan was lauded for personal stances—quitting a country club that excluded Jews, saving Holocaust footage to counter denial—he also opposed landmark civil rights legislation and took ambivalent stances on issues like apartheid.
• Gatekeeping on the right under figures like William F. Buckley Jr. (expelling anti-Semites, John Birchers) existed but was selective and often coexisted with other exclusionary elements.
• Quote:
  • "[Reagan] was very much pro immigrant... very much opposed to anti Semitism... On the other hand, throughout his career, he catered to white bigotry." (Max Boot, 16:17)

Conspiracism and the Conservative Mainstream

(18:36–21:18)

• Di Caro and Boot note that conspiratorial thinking hasn't just emerged, but has been mainstreamed, referencing Glenn Beck’s Fox News show and its large audience long before Trump.
• Boot observes that cancel culture is ineffective in today’s world, as ousted broadcasters like Tucker Carlson and Glenn Beck can reach vast audiences online regardless.
• Trump, they argue, employs strategic "wink and nod" conspiracy-mongering, referencing “globalists” and targeting George Soros—following patterns long associated with anti-Semitic canards.

What Is Reaganism? Myths vs. Reality

(22:11–24:54)

• Boot emphasizes Reagan’s difference between campaign rhetoric and governing pragmatism—succeeding by avoiding extreme ideology, even as his party drifted further right.
• The idea that Republican dominance resulted less from abstract beliefs in small government or robust foreign policy and more from opposition to civil rights and successful southern realignment.
• Quote:
  • "When you think about Reaganism, it's kind of old fashioned American conservatism that reviled the federal government but promoted a strong defense... There were a lot of elements that were not so wonderful about the old style conservatism because frankly, it made common cause with a lot of white people who didn't like civil rights laws." (Max Boot, 22:11)

The Legacy of Courts, Inequality, and the Social State

(25:13–29:25)

• Di Caro and Boot discuss Reagan’s enduring impact on the judiciary, politicizing appointments and contributing to the overturning of Roe v. Wade.
• Tax cuts and burgeoning deficits under Reagan had lasting consequences—making future expansions of the welfare state much harder and contributing to rising income inequality.
• Boot points out that while deindustrialization and globalization have many causes, the Reagan era’s economic policies were a major inflection point for the widening separation of incomes.
• Quote:
  • "If you look at trend lines of income inequality in America, they really begin to diverge in the early 1980s... And it has the same impact, which is to empower populism of both the left and the right." (Max Boot, 28:37)

Comparing Reagan and Trump on Government

(29:48–34:23)

• Di Caro and Boot contrast Reagan’s critique of government—mostly rhetorical, sometimes administrative—against Trump’s outright attacks and efforts to dismantle agencies.
• Boot observes that Reagan created or expanded institutions like the National Endowment for Democracy, rather than obliterating them; Trump, in contrast, has sought to destroy agencies ranging from USAID to PBS.
• Both guests agree that Reagan’s rhetoric launched an enduring era of suspicion toward government, but Trump’s actions and rhetoric represent a historic escalation.
• Quote:
  • "Reagan was constantly reviling the federal government as if it was being run by somebody else, as if he weren't actually the guy in charge." (Max Boot, 33:47)

Social Conservatives, Populism, and the Party’s Evolution

(34:23–36:56)

• Di Caro introduces the rise of the religious right and culture warriors via Reagan's electoral coalition, though Reagan personally kept some distance.
• They discuss Pat Buchanan's role: as a forerunner to Trump, Buchanan's once-marginal populist/nationalist ideas have since become ascendant, effectively supplanting the “Reagan-Bush” flavor of mainstream conservatism.
• Quote:
  • "In many ways, Trump has taken the Buchanan message much in the way that Reagan took the Barry Goldwater message... what you've seen in many ways is the mainstreaming of Buchananism." (Max Boot, 35:46)

Populism: Rhetoric vs. Governance

(38:13–40:28)

• Boot recalls that Reagan, like other Republican presidents, used populist rhetoric but governed pragmatically, often disappointing the far right.
• Trump, by contrast, blurs any distinction between extremist rhetoric and governing style, fostering a loyal, grievance-driven following at the expense of broader appeal.
• Quote:
  • "Trump is in some ways the first Republican president where there is no gap between rhetoric and action... His whole political success has been based on mobilizing the base and saying screw you literally to everybody else." (Max Boot, 39:25)

Ideology, Law, and Corruption: Comparing Reagan, Nixon, and Trump

(41:26–43:21)

• Boot admits Iran-Contra was a serious violation, but argues the motivation was (misguided) public interest; unlike Nixon or Trump, Reagan was not personally corrupt or vindictive.
• Trump’s pursuit of personal enrichment and vendetta politics, Boot says, sets him apart from Reagan’s fundamentally different temperament and ethical standards.
• Quote:
  • "[Iran-Contra] was done in a public spirited way, or at least with a desire to help the country, whereas it would have never occurred to Reagan to order the Justice Department to go and indict his political adversaries." (Max Boot, 41:26)

Foreign Policy: Ideals vs. Instincts

(44:16–46:24)

• Reagan, despite changing tactics, maintained consistent ideals (democracy, alliance-building), while Trump is erratic, feuding with allies and cozying to dictators.
• Boot describes Trump’s foreign policy as “a weird mix of pacifism and militarism,” lacking any real doctrine or coherence, unlike Reagan’s steady anti-communism and eventual pragmatism with Gorbachev.
• Quote:
  • "It's a weird mix of pacifism and militarism that you see in the Trump administration. It almost defies the description. It's certainly not a coherent foreign policy philosophy. It's really just Trump doing whatever he feels like doing that particular day." (Max Boot, 45:43)

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• "When you admit bigotry and hatred in one form into your coalition, it's very hard to keep it out in other forms."
  — Max Boot (13:54)
• "So you had some gatekeeping, but you also had some noxious elements that were still very much part of the coalition. And now in the age of social media, the gatekeeping has basically collapsed."
  — Max Boot (17:49)
• "There's actually no way to really cancel anybody anymore because they always have a platform on social media."
  — Max Boot (19:46)
• "I used to think that the strength of the Republican party electorally was due to their small government philosophy... but in hindsight, I would have to say a lot of their success was simply in being more hostile to civil rights legislation electorally."
  — Max Boot (23:10)
• "He stoked the fires of populism with his rhetoric, but actually acted in a very mainstream fashion that probably had more in common with Dwight D. Eisenhower than it does with Donald Trump." — Max Boot (39:20)
• "With Reagan, the populist message didn't really go that far because he appointed Beltway insiders... and was really concerned about making deals with Tip O'Neill and governing in a responsible and successful fashion." — Max Boot (38:26)
• "He is the first president in my lifetime who makes no attempt to reach out to anybody, who doesn't already agree with him, who makes no attempt to win over Democrats or political opponents, in fact, just reviles them." — Max Boot (40:09)
• "It would have never occurred to Reagan to order the Justice Department to go and indict his political adversaries. I mean, this is a very different ethos from what you saw in the Reagan administration."
  — Max Boot (41:42)

Important Timestamps

• 12:13–15:22 — On gatekeeping, Trump, and white nationalism
• 16:17–18:36 — Reagan’s complicated stances on inclusion and bigotry
• 22:11–24:54 — Defining “Reaganism,” civil rights, and Southern strategy
• 25:13–28:37 — Courts, tax cuts, and the inequality legacy
• 29:48–34:23 — Attacking the government: Reagan vs. Trump
• 35:46–36:56 — Pat Buchanan as precursor to Trump
• 38:13–40:28 — Populism in rhetoric vs. governance
• 41:26–43:21 — Comparing Reagan, Nixon, and Trump on law and corruption
• 44:16–46:24 — Foreign policy: Reagan’s ideals vs. Trump’s incoherence

Conclusions

• Reaganism, as remembered, is often a myth: The reality was a pragmatic, sometimes contradictory blend of conservative principles and political compromise, overshadowed by both genuine and selective nostalgia in the age of Trump.
• The divide between Reagan and Trump is stark: Reagan’s optimism, pragmatism, and willingness to work across the aisle are fundamentally at odds with Trump’s divisiveness, personalism, and all-consuming base politics.
• Yet, some through lines are undeniable: The anti-government turn, strategic opposition to civil rights as a political driver, and the politicization of the judiciary began under or were at least capitalized on by Reagan, even if the outcomes have grown more extreme under Trump.
• The current conservative crisis is many decades in the making: Media change, eroded institutional gatekeeping, evolving coalitions, and economic shifts have all contributed, with Reagan as both an origin and a break point.

This episode is essential listening for anyone seeking to understand how Ronald Reagan’s longer shadow still looms over—and sometimes haunts—conservative politics, especially amid the turmoil, contradictions, and radicalization of the Trump era.