History As It Happens

Episode: "TR to Trump: America and Venezuela"

Host: Martin Di Caro
Guest: Dr. Alexander Aviña (Associate Professor of Latin American History, Arizona State University)
Date: October 3, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode explores the historical roots and contemporary expression of U.S. interventionism in Latin America, focusing on the Trump administration’s push for regime change in Venezuela. Host Martin Di Caro speaks with historian Dr. Alexander Aviña to examine how current policies fit within the centuries-long tradition of American actions in the Western Hemisphere—from the Monroe Doctrine and Theodore Roosevelt’s “Big Stick” policies to Cold War interventions and the present-day rhetoric framing Venezuela as a national security threat. The discussion sets recent events in rich historical context, connecting past practices with today’s justifications and strategies.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Pattern of U.S. Interventionism

• Continuity, Not Exception:
  Di Caro and Aviña discuss how the Trump administration’s aggressive stance toward Venezuela is not a break but a continuation of U.S. interventionist tradition in Latin America.
  • Quote:
    • "This falls into a larger historical pattern... The United States has never been isolationist at all when it comes to this hemisphere."
      —Martin Di Caro [12:01]
• A Perpetual Myth:
  Aviña challenges the myth of American “isolationism,” especially from the Latin American perspective.
  • Quote:
    • “This isolationism, I think we need to get beyond. We need to acknowledge it for what it is. It’s a myth that serves a particular political purpose, past and present, but as an actually existing thing, it’s ludicrous.”
      —Alexander Aviña [12:29]

2. Venezuela as a Microcosm

• Recent Developments:
  The Trump administration’s military buildup and open support for the Venezuelan opposition represent a new phase, yet repeat familiar themes—sanctions, recognition of coup governments, and more.
  • Quote:
    • “Almost every single strategy that we’ve seen in this longer U.S. imperial history against its American neighbors, we’ve seen in Venezuela from the early 2000s up until today...”
      —Alexander Aviña [02:57]
• War on Drugs as Justification:
  The publicly stated reason for intervention is narcotics interdiction, echoing the 1989 invasion of Panama.
  • Quote:
    • “We’ve recently begun using the supreme power of the United States military to destroy Venezuela terrorists and trafficking networks led by Nicolas Maduro.”
      —Donald Trump [06:09, 51:44]

3. Historical Precedents

• Monroe Doctrine and Roosevelt Corollary:
  The foundations of U.S. dominance in the region are traced to early 19th and 20th century doctrines that justified intervention to keep out European powers and control Latin American states.
  • Quote:
    • “The Monroe Doctrine gets promulgated by President James Monroe... America should belong to the Americans. European powers stay out.”
      —Alexander Aviña [15:19]
    • “Theodore Roosevelt... issued this corollary which essentially made the United States an international police force within the Americas...”
      —Alexander Aviña [29:24]
• Role of Business Interests:
  Economic motivations intertwined with interventions, aiming to protect U.S. investments and market access.
  • Quote:
    • “He says, look, we did this for New York City banks, gangster capitalism.”
      —Alexander Aviña, paraphrasing Smedley Butler [15:19]

4. From Cold War to Present: Changing Justifications

• Ideology and ‘National Security’:
  Post-WWII interventions often cited anti-communist and security concerns—Guatemala, Cuba, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Grenada.
  • Quote:
    • “What the US has always valued most from its Latin American and Caribbean neighbors is some form of stability that then allows for the normal operation of capitalism... Democracy is a justification that is made to sound good and to pacify domestic constituencies in the US. But it’s never really been about democracy.”
      —Alexander Aviña [33:52]
• Domestic Political Drivers:
  The connection between foreign interventions and U.S. domestic political needs—demonstrating strength, uniting political constituencies, and satisfying local interest groups (notably the South Florida Cuban and Venezuelan exile communities).
  • Quote:
    • “This is an exercise of American power against a much weaker opponent. For domestic purposes, I think to fulfill certain political constituencies, to make the Trump administration look powerful domestically.”
      —Alexander Aviña [19:40]

5. Destabilizing Effects and Unintended Consequences

• Refugee and Migration Flows:
  U.S. sanctions and pressure have contributed to economic collapse and mass emigration from Venezuela.
  • Quote:
    • “Venezuela has already lost maybe one-sixth of its population through migration and refugee flows as a consequence of the economic sanctions that Trump intensified during his first administration.”
      —Alexander Aviña [49:15]
• Blowback and Escalation Risks:
  Intervention risks generating anti-U.S. sentiment, migration crises, and unintended regional instability—even the possibility of expanding strikes to other countries (Mexico).
  • Quote:
    • “A potential U.S. military strike on Venezuela is going to generate the very evils that the Trump administration sees as explanations for its existence and its politics.”
      —Alexander Aviña [50:48]

6. The Role and Weakness of the Venezuelan Opposition

• Challenges of Opposition Legitimacy:
  Despite U.S. support and international pressure, the opposition has struggled to garner broad domestic backing and risks further delegitimacy if seen as inviting foreign invasion.
  • Quote:
    • “It’s hard for me to imagine...the political opposition that’s calling for a military invasion of their own country...would then be walking with open arms by their country folk...”
      —Alexander Aviña [23:16]
  • On National Unity:
    • “Normal ordinary Venezuelans who don’t like the government...say if the United States is going to come in here guns blazing, we’re going to defend our country.”
      —Martin Di Caro [24:59]

7. Sanctions as Economic Warfare

• Long-Term U.S.-Venezuela Relations:
  Relations were cordial in the Cold War and late 20th century, deteriorating with the election of Chávez and his Bolivarian Revolution—which prioritized social spending and antagonized U.S. business and political interests.
  • Quote:
    • “It’s really with the election of Hugo Chavez at the end of the 90s and early 2000s, when efforts to socially democratize the Venezuelan economic and political system started to lead to frictions...”
      —Alexander Aviña [26:23]

8. Recycling of Rhetoric: Drugs and Terrorism

• Blurring Threats:
  Aviña notes how the ‘war on drugs’ and ‘war on terror’ frameworks have been recycled to justify the latest aggressions, despite a lack of new factual basis (e.g., Venezuela as a source of fentanyl).
  • Quote:
    • “In this post reality world... fentanyl does not come from Venezuela, which is what Rubio and Trump have been saying.”
      —Alexander Aviña [47:26]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On U.S. "Isolationism":
  • “Whenever I hear...US politician[s] talking about isolationism, my first thought is, oh, no, red flag for Latin America, because we know what’s gonna happen next. U.S. aggression toward the region.”
    —Alexander Aviña [12:29]
• On Military Justifications:
  • “Terrorist thug smuggling poisonous drugs into the United States of America. Please be warned that we will blow you out of existence.”
    —Donald Trump [01:49, 51:44]
• On Intervention Rhetoric:
  • “[The] United States has taken a different approach with other countries where drugs were an issue, rather than blowing up boats off the coast...”
    —Martin Di Caro [21:31]
• On the Disconnect Between Justification and Action:
  • “Democracy is a justification... to pacify domestic constituencies... But it’s never really been about democracy.”
    —Alexander Aviña [33:52]
• On Unintended Consequences:
  • “There’s a direct connection between migration flows in the 2010s to what the Reagan administration did to Central America in the 1980s.”
    —Alexander Aviña [43:47]
• On Old Patterns:
  • “…if that invasion is successful, that they would then be walking with open arms by their country folk who know that they just... were calling for the military invasion of their country. Does that make sense?”
    —Alexander Aviña [23:16]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:49–06:47] — Opening framing: Trump’s rhetoric, War on Drugs, direct action against Venezuela
• [10:31–12:29] — U.S. pattern of destabilization, critique of "isolationism"
• [15:19–17:57] — Monroe Doctrine, expansionism, business motivations behind interventionism
• [18:56–20:51] — Trump administration’s argument: drug trafficking, anti-communism, domestic drivers
• [21:31–23:16] — Venezuelan opposition strategy, U.S. support, and potential consequences
• [26:23–27:29] — U.S.-Venezuela diplomatic history: last period of ‘good relations’
• [29:24–32:30] — Roosevelt Corollary; 'civilizing' rhetoric, racism, and masculinity
• [33:52–35:33] — Cold War ideology vs. stated democratic goals
• [35:33–40:18] — Guatemala, the United Fruit Company, capitalism vs. corruption hypotheses
• [43:01–46:30] — Central America in the 1980s, death squads, liberation theology
• [46:34–48:08] — War on drugs, adaptation of intervention logic post-Cold War
• [49:15–50:48] — Consequences of intervention: Venezuela’s economic collapse and regional instability

Conclusion

The episode makes a compelling case that today’s U.S. pressures and actions toward Venezuela are part of a much longer cycle of intervention in Latin America, driven by a mix of economic, political, ideological, and domestic motivations. The justifications may be updated—drugs, terrorism, democracy—but the structures and impacts remain familiar. Dr. Aviña and Martin Di Caro provide an accessible, richly contextualized overview of a potentially transformative crisis, reminding listeners that today’s headlines are rooted in centuries of American policy.

For further reading:

• John Coatsworth, “The United States and Latin America: Beyond the Neoconservative Debate”
• Smedley Butler, War Is a Racket
• Gabriel García Márquez, Nobel Prize speech (1982)