Saturday Matinee: Founded

Summary

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History Daily – Saturday Matinee: Founded

Date: November 8, 2025
Host: Tori Phantom
Guest: Gwenna LaLand
(Primary episode featured: "Founded," from Airwave Media)

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Episode Overview

This episode of "History Daily" features a special matinee selection from the podcast "Founded," focused on the complexities of revolutionary-era America leading up to the Stamp Act crisis. Hosts Tori Phantom and Gwenna LaLand dive into the tangled motivations, rivalries, and the everyday lives of the people who sparked the American Revolution, emphasizing the messy, often-overlooked details behind the iconic moments. With humor and insight, they break down how debates over representation, unfair taxes, and British indifference laid the groundwork for colonial resistance.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene: Revolutionary Boston

• Tori Phantom recounts her Boston visit with "History That Doesn't Suck" host Greg Jackson, explaining how the city's layered past highlights the complexities and contradictions of the American Revolution.
• "The American Revolution was complicated, a messy affair filled with hot tempers, strong opinions, clever diplomacy, and eventually violence." (00:46, Tori Phantom)

2. Quiz-Style Introduction to the Founding Drama

• Tori quizzes Gwenna ("Samuel Adams") on “founding father beef,” taxes, and the roots of colonial anger:
  • Who clashed with Lt. Gov. Thomas Hutchinson? Sam Adams and James Otis Jr. (03:21)
  • Why the new taxes? Britain's war debt, especially after fighting France.
  • Why colonial outrage? The abrupt shift from "salutary neglect" (hands-off British policy) to direct taxation and enforcement.
  • "They were promised to not actually be taxed by the Crown, only taxed by themselves." (04:59, James Otis Jr.)

3. Bill of Rights Origins Game

• Playful references are made to the historical context and content of the First, Third, and Fifth Amendments, connecting colonial grievances directly to later constitutional protections.
  • “The Bill of Rights is a trauma response.” (14:23, Samuel Adams)

4. Stamp Act: Laws, Loopholes, and Outrage

• Deep dive into the 1765 Stamp Act and its 55 clauses, taxing everything from newspapers to playing cards, with a draconian approach to enforcement.
  • "If a document was printed in a foreign language, it would be taxed at twice the rate." (12:07, Samuel Adams)
  • Trials for violators would be in Crown-controlled courts, bypassing colonial juries — fueling fears of arbitrary British justice.
  • "Their rights to a trial with a jury of their peers was being taken." (14:01, Samuel Adams)

5. Representation, "Virtual" and Real

• Discussion of "virtual representation" (Parliament’s claim to represent all British subjects, even colonists) and why colonists weren’t buying it.
  • "Virtual representation is my favorite word now." (08:19, James Otis Jr.)
  • "The point of a representative democracy is that different regions... will always have disparate needs." (08:37, James Otis Jr.)

6. Colonial and British Mindsets: Mutual Disdain

• Explores the British view that colonies existed for the mother country’s benefit, and the colonists’ increasing frustration.
  • “The British in the colonies didn’t have great opinions of each other.” (17:15, Samuel Adams)
  • Ridicule of the idea that colonial MPs would bring “witch-burning” hysteria to Parliament.

7. Samuel Adams’ Organizing Genius

• How Samuel Adams leveraged media, organized boycotts (like the “homespun” movement, wearing non-British wool), and deftly built a coalition against the Stamp Act.
  • “He had a scheme, and he had 17 newspapers to write in.” (30:00, Samuel Adams)
  • Early acts of protest like boycotting British black garments for mourning and refusing to eat lamb so the colonies could grow more wool.

8. The Stamp Act Congress & Colonial Unity

• The mechanics behind the call for a Colonial (Stamp Act) Congress—the first step toward intercolonial cooperation.
  • Samuel Adams orchestrates the House’s invitation to other colonies; initial refusals give way to broader unity after stirring speeches, notably from South Carolina’s John Rutledge (42:09 - 42:34).
  • “Nine colonies RSVP ‘yes’… They did not want independency—they just wanted what they had before.” (43:03, Samuel Adams)

9. Patrick Henry’s (Legendary) Stand in Virginia

• Recounts (with due skepticism) the dramatic, possibly apocryphal moment when Henry likens George III to Caesar and is shouted down for “treason,” cementing his legend and fanning revolutionary fire.
  • “Caesar had his Brutus, Charles the First, his Cromwell, and King George iii…” (49:27, Samuel Adams)
  • “According to legend… the elder burgesses told Patrick to be silent and sit down. And Patrick, he did not do that.” (49:27, Samuel Adams)

10. Foreshadowing and the Unpredictability of History

• The hosts reflect on how unity seemed impossible—until it happened—and the unpredictability of historical outcomes.
  • “Looking back, it seems inevitable, but as they were living it, they didn’t know what was coming next.” (40:05, Samuel Adams)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On British Justification for Taxation:
  “Why did the British want to tax the colonists?”
  “Because they had a lot of debt and they fought many wars just because France existed.” (04:34, James Otis Jr.)

• On “Virtual Representation”:
  “Members of Parliament represented no one in particular, but everyone in general…” (08:25, Samuel Adams)

• On Legal Loopholes:
  “If it’s a paper, it needs a stampy-do. All right, just wow.” (12:01, James Otis Jr.)

• On British Attitudes:
  “What do you even have to be mad about? We gave you virtual representation. In theory.” (10:17, Samuel Adams)

• On Political Organizing:
  “He wanted to bring his idea for a continental Congress back to light… knew pamphlets and newspapers were the key.” (30:24, Samuel Adams)

• On Colonial Disunity:
  “No two colonies think alike. There is no uniformity of measures. The bundle of sticks thus separated will be easily broken.” (38:02, Samuel Adams quoting Hutchinson)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:46 – Episode theme: The messiness of the American Revolution
• 03:21 – Founding father “pop quiz” – Biographies and rivalries
• 04:59 – Reasons for outrage: British debt and betrayal
• 08:19 – “Virtual representation” debate
• 12:01 – Stamp Act’s paperwork extremity and double tax
• 14:01 – Colonists' rights eroded under the Stamp Act
• 17:15 – British and colonial mutual disdain
• 30:00 – Samuel Adams’ organizing, media, and boycotts
• 38:02 – Hutchinson’s “bundle of sticks” and colonial disunity
• 41:15–43:03 – South Carolina answers the call: Toward the Stamp Act Congress
• 49:27 – Patrick Henry’s legendary speech and aftermath

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Tone & Style

• Lighthearted and playful, with running quizzes and historical jokes (“stampy-do,” “rabble rousing ruffians”).
• Conversational, focused on stories behind the textbook facts, and attentive to connecting historical grievances with modern constitutional rights.
• Uses contemporary analogies ("That's Netflix going, hey, how about $2.99 a month… but we can change the price at any point without notifying you") for accessibility.

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Conclusion

This episode of "History Daily" (via “Founded”) brings energetic clarity to the real, complicated story of early colonial resistance, illustrating how confusion, outrage, and seemingly small actions snowballed into a collective push for rights—a process neither swift nor inevitable. By interrogating myths, highlighting lesser-known actors, and exposing the personal dramas of figures like Samuel Adams, James Otis Jr., and Patrick Henry, the show enriches our understanding of the messy birth of American independence, all while keeping the mood lively and relatable.

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Memorable Closing Quote:
“We don’t see history repeat itself, but we continue to hear the echoes.”
(50:41, Samuel Adams/Tori Phantom)

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Transcript

[Tori Phantom]

There are more ways than ever to listen to History Daily ad free. Listen with Wondry plus in the Wondery app as a member of Noiser plus at noiser.com or in Apple Podcasts. Or you can get all of History Daily plus other fantastic history [e-mail] Recently I was in Boston hanging out with my friend and fellow history podcaster Professor Greg Jackson from History that Doesn't Suck. And he's really a great person to visit Boston with because that city is steeped in revolutionary history like t is in Boston Harbor. I've never really been to Boston before. Technically I have set foot in the city before, but not like this, and it was rewarding to see the places where my country was born. But in my conversations with Greg, one thing kept becoming clear to me. The American Revolution was complicated, a messy affair filled with hot tempers, strong opinions, clever diplomacy, and eventually violence. On today's Saturday matinee, we're bringing you an episode from the podcast Founded that digs into this complexity to explore why things happened the way they did through the understanding of the people who were there on all sides of the fight that began long before the shot heard round the world rang out. I hope you enjoy. While you're listening, be sure to search for and follow Found it. We put a link in the show notes to make it easy for you.

[Samuel Adams]

Foreign.

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[James Otis Jr.]

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[Samuel Adams]

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[James Otis Jr.]

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[Samuel Adams]

Find out [e-mail] sparkcashplus termsupply hello and welcome to founded an Airwave Media podcast where we find the stories you missed in history Class. Cause the tea was hot before they dumped it into the harbor. Hi, I'm Tori Phantom, and joining me today is someone who might secretly speak Latin. Gwenna Laland.

[James Otis Jr.]

ETU Brute.

[Samuel Adams]

What? I don't speak Latin. Neither do I. The secret is out.

[James Otis Jr.]

Do I get a pop quiz?

[Samuel Adams]

Obviously. First question. Which founding fathers had mega beef with the lieutenant governor of Massachusetts Bay Colony, Thomas Hutchinson?

[James Otis Jr.]

Yes.

[Samuel Adams]

Okay, but, like, give me two Sam Adams and.

[James Otis Jr.]

And another one of them.

[Samuel Adams]

Lightning.

[James Otis Jr.]

Mostly same. Adams. James Otis Jr Yes, I like that.

[Samuel Adams]

That was what I got to use to jog your memory, Lightning boy.

[James Otis Jr.]

Listen, if it's working for me, maybe it's working for everyone else.

[Samuel Adams]

That's. That's true. Okay, what tax was secretly slipped into the Sugar Act?

[James Otis Jr.]

Stamp.

[Samuel Adams]

Yes. Stamp Act. And what offer did George Grenville make in bad faith to the colonists about said Stamp Act?

[James Otis Jr.]

Hey, if you want to go fund me your own taxes, that'd be cool. You can just tell me, like, how you're going to go fund me that. But also, no, you can't.

[Samuel Adams]

Yeah, he really loves stamps. Why did the British want to tax the colonists?

[James Otis Jr.]

Because they had a lot of debt and they fought many wars just because France existed.

[Samuel Adams]

Yeah. And. Yeah, they. They were really upset about that. They were like.

[James Otis Jr.]

No, they just really did not like that France has ever existed.

[Samuel Adams]

Yeah. So they ended up with boatloads of debt and they needed to offset that. Yep. Yeah. Why were the colonists mad about it? Last question.

[James Otis Jr.]

It's because. Salutatory neglect. They were promised to not actually be taxed by the Crown, only taxed by themselves.

[Samuel Adams]

Yeah, they basically were hands off the Crown was hands off with the colonies for well over a century. And then suddenly they're like. But actually. And on today's edition of. How well do you know the Bill of Rights?

[James Otis Jr.]

Well, better than I used to.

[Samuel Adams]

That's true. Yeah, same. Do you know what the Fifth Amendment is about?

[James Otis Jr.]

That one is the right to remain silent. That's the one where I cannot be compelled to indict. Not indict myself. That's the wrong word. I cannot be compelled to tell on myself.

[Samuel Adams]

Yes. And that's double jeopardy. And that is the due process. Right. And then the First Amendment, of course.

[James Otis Jr.]

That'S freedom of speech, right to assemble, freedom of protest.

[Samuel Adams]

Couple other things. Religion, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, yeah.

[James Otis Jr.]

Just minor things.

[Podcast Advertiser/Host]

It's cool.

[Samuel Adams]

So we're going to keep the first and the Fifth Amendment in mind. Call them out if you hear him being violated. Sound good?

[James Otis Jr.]

Okay.

[Samuel Adams]

So this episode we are going to be exploring what happened when the colonists heard about the Stamp act being passed. After all of this time they are sending petitions, it's being ignored. Then Parliament has all these debates and they're like stamps, it's time for stamps now. Before the Stamp act became law In March of 1765, a pamphlet was published in England. The regulations lately made concerning the colonies and taxes imposed upon them considered. Which is, you know, a little wordy.

[James Otis Jr.]

I swear to God, I'm just going to start titling my books like 18th century pamphlet writers. I saw it.

[Samuel Adams]

Yeah. The whole pamphlet.

[James Otis Jr.]

So many words.

[Samuel Adams]

Right.

[James Otis Jr.]

Like I am confident about the theme of that pamphlet.

[Samuel Adams]

You know what it's about now. Right. And that was written by Thomas Whateley, who is gardener Tom. He was defending George Grenville at his tax plans and huh. Most.

[James Otis Jr.]

I mean he was kind of being paid to do that, but whatever.

[Samuel Adams]

Right. That was like literally his job, so.

[James Otis Jr.]

His job. But you.

[Samuel Adams]

Yeah. And most of the pamphlet was about how great the Sugar act of 1764 was and that it really just meant to make sure that trade was going well, like stopping the smuggling, blah, blah. And it actually provided the numbers that showed how the cost of collecting the duties was four times as much as they were collecting. Like it was costing them more to pay the customs agents than they were getting back in the taxes because the customs agents were being paid off by said smugglers. And then towards the end of the pamphlet, it went on to address Parliament's authority to tax the colonies. And it pointed out how the colonies had virtual representation, just like all the other British subjects that didn't or couldn't vote for representatives, meaning the members of.

[James Otis Jr.]

Virtual representation is my favorite word now.

[Samuel Adams]

Yeah. And it really meant that members of Parliament represented no one in particular, but everyone in general. Like this is the vibe they're going with. And I mean.

[James Otis Jr.]

Yes, but the point of a representative democracy is that different regions of the country will always have disparate needs and concerns. An agricultural community is always going to require different things, assistance, writs, laws, permissions than a more urbanized or industrial area.

[Samuel Adams]

Yeah.

[James Otis Jr.]

That's why we have a representative democracy is because we don't all live the same lives. And yes, we want our representatives to viscerally understand, hey, that industrial sector with their laws is really messing up our groundwater and we're not going to have any corn for the cows.

[Samuel Adams]

Yeah, exactly.

[James Otis Jr.]

That's how a representative democracy works. Just in case anybody was confused. Yeah, I'm sure you weren't.

[Samuel Adams]

The way that it worked in Britain Right. They had like, their three branches there that would work together. Like the King was the third, and then there was the House of Commons and then there was Parliament, which was like the upper house. Well, both the upper house and the House of Commons were part of Parliament, so you get it. Anyway, this pamphlet, it's like we have.

[James Otis Jr.]

Congress with the House and the Senate. They have the Parliament and the House of Commons. House of Commons, Yeah.

[Samuel Adams]

And this pamphlet basically shut down all of the arguments that the colonists made in those petitions they sent that Parliament refused to read.

[James Otis Jr.]

Were those shutdowns more or less to the tune of.

[Samuel Adams]

Yeah. They're basically like, because I said so. Because I said you're not mad?

[James Otis Jr.]

You're not mad because I said so.

[Samuel Adams]

Exactly. What do you even have to be mad about? We gave you virtual representation. In theory.

[James Otis Jr.]

You've got like a whole country and stuff.

[Samuel Adams]

God, come on. We have power. Give me some of your money.

[James Otis Jr.]

Hey, do you have any milk money? My mom didn't send me any milk money. And I'm like, I want to get a chocolate milk at lunch today. Like, same energy.

[Samuel Adams]

Oh, my God. Yes, I understand. You won't have any milk money if you give me yours, but I don't care. Do you remember I always said so? Yes. And then this news of their milk money being taken reaches the colonies, right? So the. The Stamp act is passed in March of 1765, and the news reaches the colonies late April, early May. So about a month month or so. Right. Now, in the Stamp act, there were 55 provisions included in this bill with duties that ranged from 3 pennies to 20 shillings on all common use paper. We're talking diplomas, wills, marriage licenses, playing cards, contracts, deeds, land surveys, newspapers, pamphlets, almanacs, calendars. And there was even a provision to stamp paper they may have forgotten to stamp, quote for every skin or piece of vellum or parchment or sheet or piece of paper on which shall be engrossed, written or printed any register, entry or enrollment of any grant, deed or other instrument whatsoever not herein before charged within the said colonies and plantations a stamp duty of 2 shillings. They were like, listen, we might have forgot some papers. So just in case, figure it out. You know, the paper, if it's a.

[James Otis Jr.]

Paper, it needs a stampy do. All right, just. Wow.

[Samuel Adams]

And if a document was printed in a foreign language, it would be taxed at twice the rate of the documents that were written in the King's language.

[James Otis Jr.]

All right, continue.

[Samuel Adams]

And the Stamp act also gave Parliament the right to change the cost of the stamps or add new taxes in the future for, quote, unquote, further defraying the necessary expenses of defending, protecting, and securing the said colonies and plantations.

[James Otis Jr.]

That is the same. That's Netflix going, hey, how about 2 99amonth? But we can change the price at any point without notifying you or telling you anything at all.

[Samuel Adams]

Just you.

[James Otis Jr.]

When you pay us that, you. We can change it.

[Samuel Adams]

You agreed to the terms. Terms.

[James Otis Jr.]

You agreed to the terms.

[Samuel Adams]

Yeah.

[James Otis Jr.]

You agree to move over there. You agreed to move over there and do whatever it is y' all do over there.

[Samuel Adams]

Yeah. Now, of course, the cost of the stamps weren't the only thing included in the 55 provisions that made up the Stamp Act. The bill was wrapped up nicely with the list of consequences for violating any of the new stamp rules. Any offenses would be, quote, prosecuted, sued for, and recovered in any court of record or in any court of admiralty in their respective colony or plantation, where the offense shall be committed, or in any court of vice admiralty appointed or to be appointed, which shall have jurisdiction within such colony, plantation, or place. Meaning that if you violated the Stamp act, you would be brought to a court run by the Crown, all while claiming that the colonies had virtual representation.

[James Otis Jr.]

Right.

[Samuel Adams]

So when the colonists got news of the Stamp act and were able to read all 55 provisions, they realized that they were being taxed without representation or consent. Their rights.

[James Otis Jr.]

You had virtual representation.

[Samuel Adams]

Exactly. And their rights to a trial with a jury of their peers was being taken. And that new courts with crown authority and expanded rights were being threatened if they did not comply with the stamps.

[James Otis Jr.]

Hey, hey, hey. We have violated both the first and the fifth amendment in one swoop.

[Samuel Adams]

Yeah. I told you, the Bill of Rights is a trauma response.

[James Otis Jr.]

I mean, keep in mind, when we say they have violated. They did not have these amendments at the time. This is all the stuff that led them to create.

[Samuel Adams]

Exactly.

[James Otis Jr.]

Keep in mind, when we're not. We're not saying they were. They had their rights violated. We see them as having their rights violated at the time. They did not view those as rights. They were inconvenient. They were mad about it, but they didn't. They knew they didn't have those rights guaranteed to them by any document. The founding fathers were the first were among the first to do stuff like that.

[Samuel Adams]

Right. And that's. That's why we play this game. How well do you know the Bill of Rights? Because we are trying to see where these Bill of Rights came from. Why were these specific things so important to these people? And they just keep coming up.

[James Otis Jr.]

It's almost as if they looked around their current circumstances and went, hmm, this is less than ideal and no one should have to live a life like this. We should put forth provisions and protections to make sure that we and our future generations don't have to live under such tyranny.

[Tori Phantom]

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[Samuel Adams]

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[James Otis Jr.]

Do happen from time to time.

[Podcast Advertiser/Host]

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[Tori Phantom]

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[Tori Phantom]

There's something here.

[James Otis Jr.]

Something bad.

[Podcast Advertiser/Host]

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[Samuel Adams]

Yeah, that's basically what they said. So and you might just saying yeah and you might have predicted by this point that the response to the Stamp act was not good, but not good. Somehow unpredictable to the British. But this isn't shocking as the British in the colonies didn't have great opinions of each other. In fact, a whole lot of the people in England thought that the main point of the colonies was to benefit the mother country and that the colonists should just be thankful for anything they get from association with England.

[James Otis Jr.]

And you know what's wild is my history class education taught me the same thing. Like even as an American like the from from the people that eventually settled this country. Like I was taught in school that the colonies were just supposed to be in service. Basically super duper fancy servants across an ocean from their rulers in England like That's. That's how the American Revolution was presented to me while I was in school.

[Samuel Adams]

Yeah. And some folks in England even thought that if New Englanders were actually elected to Parliament, that they would just be building pyres to burn witches outside the halls of Parliament. You got the witch trials weren't that distant in the past. At this point. They're like these. These people are just going to burn witches in Parliament.

[James Otis Jr.]

But they were started by James, one of their own kings.

[Samuel Adams]

I don't think that mattered to them. Huh. Yeah, the. The English didn't understand or care to understand the colonists or the situations that they were dealing with. And on the other side of the ocean, one of the writers of the New York petition that the English didn't read wrote in response to the Stamp act, that the boldness of the minister amazes our people. This single stroke has lost Great Britain the affection of all of her colonies. And then this Maryland lawyer published a pamphlet, the Claim of the Colonies, that pointed out how ridiculous the idea virtual representation was, saying how a tax raised by Parliament in England would affect the people in Parliament who voted for it, the people who elected them, and the people who didn't have a right to vote. Whereas a tax in America from Parliament would only affect the people who imposed it by lowering their tax bill. That's valid. Right, because they're not paying the tax in America. They have to pay less taxes by taxing America. But we are now headed back to Boston, where a certain Lieutenant Governor, Thomas Hutchinson, had recently wrote a letter to a friend in England saying, quote, except a few hotheads in this town, we are all calm and easy and as free from parties as can be expected. Now, Thomas Hutchinson, you know that meme.

[James Otis Jr.]

Where there's the subtle foreshadowing?

[Samuel Adams]

Yeah.

[James Otis Jr.]

Just imagine that right here. Everything's hunky dory, guys.

[Samuel Adams]

Literally. Now, Thomas Hutchinson, he saw how Parliament could and would be offended by all the petitions questioning their authority. From his own history book, quote, every man who is governed by reason saw that if it being parliamentary, power was conceded as matter of right in one instance, it would soon be claimed. In all, basically, he is saying that, yeah, I get that everyone is sending these petitions saying, you don't have the right to tax us, but if they say, fine, we don't have the right to tax you, well, what's next? What are you going to ask for next? Like independence, you know, like, that's. That's the vibe that Thomas Hutchinson is given here.

[James Otis Jr.]

I'm a Tommy, I'm a. Hold your Hand when I say right.

[Samuel Adams]

And all that might lead you to believe that he was actually all for the Stamp act, but he opposed it privately, publicly. He did his duty.

[James Otis Jr.]

You know, publicly, you got to tow the party light. You can't be out there running against the party. They didn't really have parties the way we perceive them, but.

[Samuel Adams]

Yeah, but they kind of did.

[Podcast Advertiser/Host]

They kind of.

[Samuel Adams]

They kind of had more like factions. Yeah, yeah. And around the time that the Stamp act was passed, before the news arrived, he penned another letter to another friend where he basically said, we're similar to the men we disagree with, although we don't pursue any measure that appears to us to be against the public good, even if we see things through a bias lens without realizing because of some prejudice or other at times. But perhaps that's also the case for some on the opposite side to us on public affairs. This should keep us from arguing all the time when we realize that measures are being taken in the contrary to what we think is right, even if we might be mistaken, taken. But some men only act in self interest. Quote, a bad man of an enterprising genius can always serve himself at the expense of the public. He will never fail doing it unless he finds the temporary advantage will be more than balanced by his particular share of the damage that will accrue to the public. And then Hutchinson went on to complain about how he was being treated in the public. And he said that, you know, I feel.

[James Otis Jr.]

I feel I might have an orange for a snack today. I just feeling it.

[Samuel Adams]

Yeah, yeah.

[James Otis Jr.]

What did Thomas Hutchison say while complaining that the people might perceive him as a bad man and treat him accordingly because he was saying the things that the bad men were saying.

[Samuel Adams]

Yeah. So he said that he never gave anyone any reason to think that he had secret knowledge about the Stamp Act. Now, this was. This letter was sent before the news arrived. Right. But he goes on to say that his words were twisted when he said, quote, by such a time, we might expect news from England of great importance, referring to the resolutions, not some private intelligence. But he said as soon as he heard this rumor about himself, he declared everywhere that he knew nothing more than what was already publicly known. However, the rumor had already spread far beyond his reach. Speaking of Samuel Adams, he was still hard at work.

[James Otis Jr.]

So basically, Thomas Hutchison was just like, it's a witch hunt.

[Samuel Adams]

Yeah, yeah, he's going to go build a pyre outside of Parliament anyway. Public opinion across the colonies had started to shift anyway because of Samuel Adams response to the Sugar act legislation was Being drawn up denouncing the stamps. Town meetings were full of people speaking out against it, and ministers were even speaking out against the stamps from the pulpit. But Samuel was only just getting started.

[James Otis Jr.]

I mean, he didn't have anything better to do. He wasn't holding down a job. So.

[Samuel Adams]

Right. He was just deferring his tax payments every six months. That's all he really had to do.

[James Otis Jr.]

Several million dollars owed to the Crown. That was actually owed to the Crown like it was the.

[Samuel Adams]

Yeah, yeah. And when the news of the stamp act arrived, he held a meeting of tradesmen and merchants where he said that England saw them as rivals, not part, and that Britain would be able to completely control the American economy if their tax measures were successful. And the merchants and tradesmen agreed to continue with the non importation agreements. Now, these boycotts of British goods actually went to great lengths. People even stopped wearing black clothes during mourning periods as these garments were manufactured in England. And they also agreed to stop eating lamb during the year so they could increase the growth and manufacture of wool to promote the homespun movement so they could make their own clothing, which wasn't authorized by the crown, by the way. Like all their raw materials, they would have to send them to England and then England would send the manufactured stuff back, which is part of this salutary neglect because that is what the colonies were used from.

[James Otis Jr.]

That's how it was made. Yeah. And it wasn't the same being taxed.

[Samuel Adams]

Yeah, yeah. And they didn't have the same infrastructure for the manufacturing, so they felt like it was a fair agreement. But now they're like, no, you're not doing what you said you were going to do. So we're going to make our own clothes. Everyone stop eating lamb. Stop it. But Thomas Hutchinson wrote in his book that things like that, like the lamb and the mourning attire, they didn't serve their intended purpose of alarming the merchants in England, but it did unite the people in an unfavorable opinion of parliament. So it still served a purpose. Really?

[James Otis Jr.]

Oh, yeah. No, that's. That's what made them unfavorable was missing their Sunday lamb so they could have black woolen clothes in a couple months. That's what did it, Tommy, you're right.

[Samuel Adams]

Yeah, yeah. He really, he really loved himself.

[James Otis Jr.]

Just nailed it. Just on the nose.

[Samuel Adams]

Yeah.

[James Otis Jr.]

Good job, buddy.

[Samuel Adams]

And after Samuel Adams heard the rumor that Hutchinson's brother in law, Andrew Oliver, a well like council member, might become a stamp collector.

[James Otis Jr.]

The stamping.

[Samuel Adams]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Samuel started a campaign to try to stop Oliver's reelection to said council. And he did such a good job with this campaign that Oliver only won his election by three or four votes. Like, like March. He almost, he almost got him out of the council.

[James Otis Jr.]

If Samuel had had like five more days.

[Samuel Adams]

Yeah, exactly. But of course, Samuel wasn't done. He continued to speak at the town meeting saying, quote, a man's property is the fruit of his industry, and if it may be taken from him under any pretense whatever, at the will of another, he cannot be said to be free. And he continued on to say that the colonies were far from being a big source of Britain's debt and that America received no help from the British that was advantageous to them, and that the Seven Years War was fought for England's benefit, not America's. Quote.

[James Otis Jr.]

Correct? Yes, all of the above. Correct. Like, at no point did the colonies raise their little non represented hand, be like, please sir, can we have some more land that isn't ours in the first place? No, that was England being like, hey, that land seems fertile, rich and full of resources.

[Samuel Adams]

We claim it. Yeah. And Samuel said, quote, did England alone run deeply in debt in conquering the French in America? Did not the colonies bear a great share of the expense of it? And then Samuel pointed out the problem with the British wanting to station 10,000 troops in America. He said, if there's an entire army here, then our self governing days are over. The military answers to the Crown, not us.

[James Otis Jr.]

And plus, where would the food be coming from? Where would the houses they're staying in be coming from? Where would the resources that keep these 10,000 extra people who contribute nothing to the economy but quote, unquote protection?

[Samuel Adams]

It's funny you mentioned where would all of. It's funny you mentioned that because in May of 1765, the Quartering act was passed.

[James Otis Jr.]

This feels familiar. There is an amendment about this one too.

[Samuel Adams]

There is. It's the third one. That was the secret. How well do you know the Bill of Rights? I was. Yeah, yeah. And at this point the colonial opinion was really shifting, right. Because they're sitting there going, why can't we protect ourselves? We have militias. We literally fought alongside you. It like saved you several times during the Seven Years War. They, they were afraid that this was Britain trying to conquer them. Like, why do you, why do we need the regular wild.

[James Otis Jr.]

Because they settled them. But I mean, how, how bad does it have to be that an entire people looks at the government that's supposed to be protecting and working for them and go, ah, we don't trust you.

[Samuel Adams]

Wait, but here's the thing. Samuel had a plan, right? He always had a plan. He had a plan. He had a scheme, and he had 17 newspapers to write in.

[James Otis Jr.]

That's just not a job.

[Samuel Adams]

Yeah, well, you know, not any that he was getting paid for, but he. He stayed working, right? And he had a plan against this British tyranny. He. At this point, we just hear the Stamp act has passed now. The. The quartering act has just gone through. They haven't gotten news of that one yet, but it was passed. He.

[James Otis Jr.]

It's a coming.

[Samuel Adams]

It's coming. He wanted to bring his idea for a continental Congress back to light. And he realized that Massachusetts House invited the other colonial assemblies that they would have to debate over the idea of it and the stamp tax. So they would have to debate coming together, and obviously the stamps, they would be coming together over. Now, here's the thing.

[James Otis Jr.]

This man was like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. They really like to argue with each other, right? So let's let them argue about how they should argue about each other, and then maybe they'll start complaining about the stamps.

[Samuel Adams]

Yeah. And he knew that if they were arguing over this, that pamphlets would be published, newspapers would be published. Like this would have a widespread effect. But here's the thing.

[James Otis Jr.]

It's like, y' all want to be petty? Fine, be petty.

[Samuel Adams]

Yeah. And here's the thing is that colonial assemblies had never debated acts of parliament. They would debate their own acts, their own taxes, their own things, because again, they did have some degree of self governance. Right. But he realized if he could spark the debate, it would have this huge impact. However, Samuel did realize that he had to be careful because he didn't want to risk the governor shutting the government down again. Like, you know, he had done the year prior when Samuel tried to introduce the same idea during the Sugar act with his. Right. So what does Samuel do?

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[James Otis Jr.]

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[Samuel Adams]

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[James Otis Jr.]

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[Samuel Adams]

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[James Otis Jr.]

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[Samuel Adams]

So what does Samuel do? He goes to his bestie, Lightning boy, James Otis Jr. Who is an elected member of the Massachusetts Assembly. Because remember, Samuel is not an elected member. He is just appointed to write all of these things. Like the town is like, yes, you write these things for the elected officials. He is. Like I said, we're not going to.

[James Otis Jr.]

Give you a job or anything. Like, it's not like real real, but like you're better at words than all the rest of us.

[Samuel Adams]

So he's basically like running the government without being in it. He's like, he's the puppeteer. Right. So he recruits his bestie, who is an elected member of the Massachusetts assembly, and peer pressured him into using the authorization he got before the shutdown the year prior with Samuel's instructions. They were approved by the House before the shutdown. They just couldn't do anything with them. Right. Yeah, but Lightning Boy had cold feet. Like, he struggled greatly with his mental health. And he was known for being an extreme pancake. Like, he would flip flop to the far ends of both sides of the argument. And at this point he's kind of like, yeah, but like, if we do, like if, if we do this protest and if we do all of this and we denounce Parliament, but like, what happens then? Samuel's peer pressure got to him though, and he folded like origami. And James Otis Jr. Agreed to make the call for the Stamp Act Congress when the Massachusetts House session began. Continental Congress is kind of illegal. That was at least according to Hutchinson's history book.

[James Otis Jr.]

Well, okay, but I question the source there. Tori Thomas says a lot of things. I, I like, I see how we got there. I see how a Continental Congress. But also these are the same people who had to list out every sort of scrap of paper they could think of and all the synonyms for a scrap of paper to be extra sure that they were going to get the stamp that, that, that make money for the crown. So these people are not. They don't mince words. Yeah, they're very careful about their language. So if it didn't forbid it.

[Samuel Adams]

Yeah, but he did bring an example, and it isn't like an example or A receipt?

[James Otis Jr.]

Because there's a difference, Tori.

[Samuel Adams]

I kind of both. Let. Let me explain.

[James Otis Jr.]

All right.

[Samuel Adams]

So there had never been a convention of committees from colonial assemblies, and there was no authorization from the Crown or in any colonial charter or law that authorized it. Now, there had been.

[James Otis Jr.]

Was there a law that said they couldn't?

[Samuel Adams]

No. But there had been a proposal for a colonial convention, not even in regards to opposing parliament 40 years before, and they had reached out to England about it, who said it was mutinous. So they didn't do it. So it wasn't really like a written law. But. But a lot of things back then weren't exactly written laws like the British Constitution. It was like several documents and ideals. Right. But as we know, this didn't matter to Samuel and his rabble rousing ruffians. It just didn't. He didn't care.

[James Otis Jr.]

No, no, no. Say that three times fast.

[Samuel Adams]

Rabble rousing ruffians. Rabble rousing. I'm done. Moving on now, when we get to the opening of the Massachusetts Assembly. The royal governor, Francis Bernard, opened the session in the spring of 1765 with a speech where he said that Parliament did have the right to tax the colonies and everyone should just agree to stamp everything. But what's interesting is that the House ignored him. Like, usually there would be some sort of response, but they just like sat on their hands. They're like, huh, we hear you. And then James Otis Jr. Executed Samuel's plan. He reminded the House of Samuel's instructions from the previous year and suggested that the Massachusetts House invite the other colonial assemblies to a stamp act Congress. And the measure was passed and the letters were immediately sent out. And then the Governor shut the House down, not to reconvene until September.

[James Otis Jr.]

Shocker. I am so surprised. It's almost like when they find a weapon, they're like, we're not going to keep using this until it stops working.

[Samuel Adams]

Yeah. It didn't matter because Samuel Adams was still appointed at the town meeting to write instructions for the Congress, whereas Francis Bernard sent a letter to London telling them not to worry about the colonies uniting, but that they should increase the number of Crown officials in Massachusetts to help increase his power to offset the growing power of people like Samuel Adams.

[James Otis Jr.]

Well, everything's fine. Everything's cool. Maybe some more police, but everything's fine. It's okay. Could you send some guns? Everything's cool. But, like, also, we're a little bit scared.

[Samuel Adams]

Where's those 10,000 troops?

[James Otis Jr.]

Could you sail faster?

[Samuel Adams]

But Francis really didn't think there was any reason to worry. No one did. Even Thomas Hutchinson, an American born lieutenant governor, said, quote, no two colonies think alike. There is no uniformity of measures. The bundle of sticks thus separated will be easily broken. He called them a bundle of sticks again.

[James Otis Jr.]

19Th century titles and. 19th century. Sorry, not even 19th. 18th century.

[Samuel Adams]

Yeah.

[James Otis Jr.]

18Th century titles and 18th century insults.

[Samuel Adams]

Just. Yeah. And Hutchinson thought that the Stamp act would just execute itself. And he had reason.

[James Otis Jr.]

So basically his, his whole premise was divided. They will fall. Like they are so different. They're so wrapped up in hating each other for being a different colony.

[Samuel Adams]

Yeah.

[James Otis Jr.]

They won't ever accomplish anything while standing in the same room.

[Samuel Adams]

Right. And they literally were so divided. Like, the only thing that they had in common was that Britain was their mother country. Like, they literally, they. They would argue over the borders of their colonies constantly. They were always suing each other like they did not get along. And Hutchinson had every reason to believe that this congress wouldn't happen because he was at that one meeting, the Albany Congress. That. That was the Albany Congress. Yes. It was a meeting of the colonies, but that was approved by the crown because it had convened to try to unite in support of Britain with the Seven Years War impending. And this was in 1754. And what happened? The plan failed. They couldn't get the colonies to unite.

[James Otis Jr.]

Even colonies to even agree.

[Samuel Adams]

Yeah.

[Podcast Advertiser/Host]

Yeah.

[James Otis Jr.]

And I mean, precedent does point back to this isn't going to work. So when I'm making fun of Thomas, like, not knowing. Honestly, honestly, how many times in our own lives have we looked at history and go, oh, that's definitely how it's going. What do you mean it didn't do that?

[Samuel Adams]

Yeah, well, what do you mean? That is the, the tricky part of studying history is when you look back, it all seems like it was inevitable because we know the story that happened. But as they were living it, they didn't know what was going to happen next. They had no idea.

[James Otis Jr.]

Yeah.

[Samuel Adams]

And so they, I mean, Thomas is.

[James Otis Jr.]

Walking around Massachusetts hearing everyone actively hate on Rhode island and Delaware just because they were wrote Delaware stealing the water. Rhode Island's not carrying their share of the. The load and we're having to produce more. So, like, Thomas was well within his rights to go. They can threaten, but it's not going to accomplish anything.

[Samuel Adams]

Exactly. And. And Francis Bernard, he was totally right to think that it wasn't going to happen too. But Francis was too late with his shutdown this time because the invitations were already sent. Yeah. The initial response was a little disappointing for Samuel Adams, though. Because the first ones he heard were New Jersey and New Hampshire declining the RSVP and the governor of Virginia refused to call the House of Burgesses together to even consider the proposal. And Maryland not just.

[James Otis Jr.]

No, we're not even going to think about it.

[Samuel Adams]

We're not even going to discuss. And Maryland's governor was sure that the colonists would just chill out and get over the stamp. So they, they said no. But then a representative in South Carolina made a speech during their debates reminding everyone that every colony faced the same danger of British domination and that they were powerless unless they stood united. And the same dude later recalled that South Carolina was the first to, quote, listen to the call of our northern brethren in their distresses. He said that Massachusetts sounded the trumpet and South Carolina answered the call. And quickly after nine other colonies answered the RSVP by checking yes. And this Congress was to meet later in the year in New York.

[James Otis Jr.]

So who can we. Even if it's not a name we remember in history, what guy basically made this first Continental Congress decide to convene?

[Samuel Adams]

Well, I didn't write his name down because I thought I was using too many names. You see, I was like, if I keep throwing names out every time I mention someone, it's going to get confusing.

[James Otis Jr.]

But that seems like an important guy.

[Samuel Adams]

Hang on. He was a representative from South Carolina. He was Rutledge. There was two of them. I believe it was John. But at this point we know that at least nine colonies have rsvp. Yes. And it's important to note at this point they did not want independency. Also they would use the term independency, not independence. And I think it sounds cute. So I also use that term now.

[James Otis Jr.]

Independency.

[Samuel Adams]

Independency. And what they, what they wanted was what they already had to be self governing British colonies with Parliament only regulating their trade.

[James Otis Jr.]

We'll keep, we'll start eating lamb again. We'll send you the, the sheep as they are done growing their hair. Like we'll, we'll go back to all of that. We just want to go back to. You're the one trying to move the needle here. And we don't wanna, they literally just.

[Samuel Adams]

Wanted to go back to pre George Grenville times. Like that was it. They were like, we don't, we don't even want this huge amount of change or anything more from you. We just want all. Can we go back to the butt? Gone. Can we just, we just.

[James Otis Jr.]

Can we go back to the butt? Yeah, we want to go back to Lord Butte.

[Samuel Adams]

Can we have him back? Come on, guys, this is.

[James Otis Jr.]

Is.

[Samuel Adams]

This is a little much. But Massachusetts, of course, was not the only colony that was angry. And neither was it just Samuel Adams, who was rousing rebels. Massachusetts just produced like a fifth of the colonial newspapers, and they were able to get news and propaganda out faster and further. But around the same time that Massachusetts sent off its circular letter calling for a Colonial Congress, history was also being made in Virginia. Near the end of their spring session, most of the members of the House of Burgesses had packed up and left town to go back home before the summer heat set in, as they usually did, without doing much or saying much about the Stamp act or their ignored petitions. Because at this point, it was pretty normal for them to be like, well, we tried, guys, it's fine. Let's go home. Shrug. Yeah. Except there was a new member of the House of Burgesses that didn't leave her home, Patrick Henry, who had only been a member of the House of Burgesses for nine days at the time. And he had some things to say. You see, there were, like, 39 members still present in the chamber and several spectators watching, including one Thomas Jefferson. He was in the room where it happened when Patrick Henry. Now I'm gonna. I gotta go listen to that song when we're done here. But he was in the room where it happened when Patrick Henry delivered the Virginia results. However, no one wrote anything down except for a stranger passing through town. And the story was first published in a paper around 500 miles away. And the newspapers, it gets a little messy there.

[James Otis Jr.]

These mofos wrote everything down, but not that literally.

[Samuel Adams]

But this story still lives on as a legend. So the story goes. This random historian in me is screeching.

[James Otis Jr.]

Right now, yeah, we love legends, but we love them better when we can, like, yeah, confirm them.

[Samuel Adams]

Exactly. But the story goes that this random stranger is just wandering about Virginia, as one does when they have nothing better to do, I suppose. And he happens upon the Virginia House of Purchases, and he noticed they're in session, so he popped in to have a listen, because, like, again, what else did they have to do? And the random stranger notes that they're debating this Stamp act thing when a Mr. Patrick Henry stood to speak. And Patrick Henry knew how to give an incredibly impactful speech. He also married his son's fiance, but that's a story for a different day. Anyway, that's a lore drop.

[James Otis Jr.]

So we've got hamsters, we've got geese, and we've got.

[Samuel Adams]

Whatever that is.

[James Otis Jr.]

We got scrubs. Too.

[Samuel Adams]

All right. Yeah. But Patrick Henry, he stands up and he proposes his resolutions. The first two just reviewed things already being said across the colonies, like, we deserve all the rights to Englishmen in England, blah, blah. The third said that the people themselves or those elected by the people are the only ones who can know what taxes the people can handle, the easiest way to raise them, and the people imposing them must also be affected by them because it is the only protection against an overly burdensome tax. Now, the fourth.

[James Otis Jr.]

So when we say we want taxes, we want to tax the rich and the middle class, and. But how taxes work, if they're being fair, is those with the most money pay the most taxes. That's. And we're not saying. We're not taxing anything.

[Samuel Adams]

And the people imposing the taxes should understand the situations of the people they're taxing. So. And they should have been elected by those same people so that it is more fair. But the fourth and final resolve that was approved by the House of Burgesses stated that the oldest and most loyal colony, Virginia, has enjoyed the rights of being governed by such laws, respecting their internal taxes and policy without interruption and with the constant recognition of the Crown, all of which they have not forfeited. And the fifth resolve was not approved. Now, that one said resolved, the General assembly of this colony have the only and exclusive right and power to lay taxes and impositions upon the inhabitants of this colony, and that every attempt to vet such power in any person or persons whatsoever other than the General assembly aforesaid has a manifest tendency to destroy British as well as American freedom. So this one, basically, if we don't.

[James Otis Jr.]

Run our own taxes, we're gonna break everything.

[Samuel Adams]

Yeah. And this. This resolve caused a huge heated debate. And this part's the legend.

[James Otis Jr.]

According to legend.

[Samuel Adams]

Yeah. The elder burgesses told Patrick to be silent and sit down. And Patrick, he did not do that. What he said is, Caesar had his Brutus, Charles the First, his Cromwell, and King George iii, to which he was interrupted by the other burgesses yelling, treason, Traitor. Treason. Except that's just the legend. The real story is the legend. The real story is kind of similar, and the Resolves are the same, but the story gets more complicated and brings us back to Boston and newspapers and I will be sharing. Oh, we're getting there. It might have helped. It might have helped. Start some Ryan's. You'll find out next week on Founded.

[James Otis Jr.]

Oh, you're just. You're just gonna. You're just gonna dangle it there. You'll be like, all right, so here's an urban legend. I know the truth, but I'm not gonna tell you till next week. Bye.

[Samuel Adams]

Yeah, that's literally what I'm doing.

[James Otis Jr.]

So I'm leaving Outro the dang show, Tori.

[Samuel Adams]

Thank you all for listening to Found it. I hope you found something interesting. Drop an email at founded [e-mail] and know what you want to find out next. And remember, we don't see history repeat itself, but we continue to hear the echoes. Founded is a part of the Airwave Media podcast network. Visit airwavemedia.com to listen and subscribe to all their other fine shows like Childproof and Bibliophage and a bunch of other podcasts that don't feature Gwana and I. We'll see you next time. Well, you'll see us.

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[Samuel Adams]

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[James Otis Jr.]

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