History Extra Podcast

Episode: A Short History of Ghost Hunting
Host: David Musgrove
Guest: Ben Machell, author of Chasing the Dark
Date: December 15, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode explores the origins and evolution of ghost hunting and supernatural investigations from the mid-19th century to the present, focusing on how cultural anxieties, technological advances, and changing attitudes have shaped enduring fascination with the paranormal. Host David Musgrove interviews Ben Machell, whose new book, Chasing the Dark, investigates the roots and enduring appeal of ghost stories and examines key figures and cases in the history of ghost hunting.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Hydesville and the Beginning of Modern Ghost Hunting (03:00–06:47)

• Hydesville, New York, 1847–48: The Fox family settles in a reputedly haunted house. Strange knocking sounds begin, and the daughters develop a system to communicate with the presumed spirit, later dubbed “Mr. Split Foot,” believed to be the ghost of a murdered peddler.
• Discovery: Human remains are found buried in the cellar, stoking public interest.
• Significance:
  • Ben Machell: “What makes this sort of distinct from a lot of the historical ghost stories … is that it's about the living people. It's about the gifts and talents of the Fox sisters.” (06:24)
  • The incident established the medium as a central figure, shifting focus from ghosts themselves to people who can bridge the world of the living and the dead.

2. Spiritualism’s Cultural and Religious Context (07:42–12:23)

• Spiritualism spread rapidly from America to Britain and Europe in the 19th century, not as a strict “creed” but as a movement accommodating many ideas—an openness to the possible permeability between life and an afterlife.
• Tension with Science and Religion:
  • The era’s technological advancements intensified existential anxieties about death and the afterlife.
  • Ben Machell: “Science … is just doing so much for the world… but the one thing that everybody … really care[s] about, what happens when we die, just absolute crickets. It's got nothing to say about that.” (11:27)
• Rise of spiritualism linked to both religious questions and the psychological need for meaning in an “increasingly mechanical universe.”

3. Role of Mass Media (12:40–14:20)

• The Fox sisters’ story and others spread rapidly via the growing press, telegraph, and increasing literacy.
• Storytelling appeal:
  • Ben Machell describes how spiritualism satisfied the public’s appetite for human stories enmeshed with mystery. (13:05)

4. Scientific Investigation: The Society for Psychical Research (SPR) (14:20–18:05)

• Founded 1882: The SPR sought to apply scientific methodologies to supernatural phenomena, aiming for neutrality and rigor rather than immediate debunking.
• They encountered rampant fraud but also a persistent core of unexplained cases:
  • “Their job isn't to debunk anything … [but] in the course of doing that, they debunked an awful lot of people. But … they still couldn't show how they were doing it.” (17:14)

5. Notable Cases & Mediums (18:05–21:45)

• Leonora Piper: Boston housewife and medium subjected to exhaustive scientific testing, investigated by Richard Hodgson. Despite attempts to catch her cheating, even skeptics couldn’t explain her abilities.
  • Piper’s case is cited as an enduring enigma for psychical researchers.

6. Supernatural as Parlor Amusement vs. Sincere Belief (21:45–22:04)

• Late 19th-century seances and games (e.g., the “Willing Game,” Ouija boards) were not always earnest:
  • Ben Machell: “It's often a thing to do. It's a game.” (20:44)
  • Both entertainment and a means to test the limits of belief.

7. Impact of World War I (22:04–23:38)

• The trauma and ambiguous loss (many dead, many missing) led to a surge in spiritualist interest—seeking connection, meaning, and closure.
• High profile converts (e.g., Arthur Conan Doyle) promoted spiritualism as a hopeful, even utopian, vision for society's future.

8. Tony Cornell and Modern Investigations (25:30–32:23)

• Tony Cornell: Central SPR investigator from the 1950s–2010, investigated “spontaneous cases”—hauntings and poltergeist reports in situ.
  • Skeptical but open-minded; aimed to explain phenomena, not prove the existence of ghosts.
• Memorable Case: Hanworth Hall (28:24):
  • Reported knocks, apparitions, beds moved; Cornell and psychologist Alan Gauld conducted rigorous experiments, unable to debunk the events.
  • “[The] knocking would stop when they spoke, would start when they didn't speak. It was sentient.” (29:55)
  • Impressed upon researchers the difficulty and loneliness people feel when faced with true unexplained events.
• Decline in reported cases late in his life; Cornell theorized distraction from modern technology, but Machell notes the conversation simply moved online.

9. The Digital Age and the Paranormal (32:23–34:24)

• Today: Interest in ghosts and supernatural persists, thriving in online communities and popular media (as with BBC's Danny Robbins).
• Ben Machell suggests modern technology changed the where, not the fact, of how people share such stories.
• Renewed interest may reflect broader fears (AI, existential threats) and the persistent human hunger for stories that probe mortality and meaning.

10. Modern Evidence: The Children’s Choir Recording (34:24–36:38)

• Steve Parsons (Parascience): Captured, in a former school building turned office, an unexplained recording of children singing, long after the building ceased being a school. Such anomalous evidence continues to intrigue and is a hallmark of modern ghost hunting.

11. Ben Machell’s Takeaways on the Supernatural (36:38–38:51)

• Initially a skeptic—“I actively avoided the supernatural because … it was so annoying and ambiguous…” (36:47)
• After research: “I'm much more relaxed about ambiguity. Like I'm far more comfortable saying, well, we can't know and we probably never will know. However, wasn't interesting the things we learned along the way…” (37:08)
• Openness to unanswered questions about consciousness, memory, and whether some “ghost” encounters might be interactions with remnants or “memories” persisting in certain places.

12. The Victorian Legacy (38:51–39:43)

• Modern attitudes, practices (e.g., seances, Ouija boards), and even the idea of scientifically investigating the supernatural are deeply rooted in Victorian culture.
• “I think the sort of psychological, cultural half-life of that Victorian era as it relates to our attitudes towards the supernatural is huge.” (38:51)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the enduring appeal of ghost stories:
  “People love stories and people love human stories. And so much of the story around spiritualism ... is an individual, a living person that you can hang narratives around.” — Ben Machell (13:05)
• On ambiguous phenomena:
  “Everybody is skeptical and believes in science until things start to happen like this.” — Ben Machell (28:24)
• On encountering the unexplained:
  “They are there to explain this stuff ... but the knocking would stop when they spoke, would start when they didn't speak. It was sentient.” — Ben Machell (29:55)
• On scientific method and the supernatural:
  “Rather than creating a sort of antagonistic dynamic whereby it's science versus the supernatural, let's just apply ... all the methodology ... to the supernatural.” — Ben Machell on SPR’s approach (15:06)
• Personal transformation through research:
  “I'm much more relaxed about ambiguity ... we can't know and we probably never will know. However, wasn't interesting the things we learned along the way…” — Ben Machell (37:08)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Hydesville & the Fox Sisters: 03:00–07:42
• Spiritualism’s Rise, Media, and Social Forces: 07:42–14:20
• Society for Psychical Research, Fraud, and Investigation: 14:20–18:05
• Notable Mediums & Cases: 18:05–21:45
• Seances as Parlor Amusement: 21:45–22:04
• World War I & Spiritualism: 22:04–23:38
• Tony Cornell & Modern Investigations: 25:30–32:23
• Online Paranormal Communities & Modern Evidence: 32:23–36:38
• Personal Reflections & the Victorian Legacy: 36:38–39:43

Tone & Style

• The episode is engaging and thoughtful, combining historical narrative with critical humor and curiosity. Machell displays balanced skepticism and openness, and Musgrove steers the discussion to both big-picture trends and fascinating anecdotal detail.

Summary Takeaway

From the Fox sisters’ 19th-century séances to today’s online ghost communities, ghost hunting’s history is as much about storytelling and the search for meaning as it is about unexplained knocks in the night. The Victorian era gave us the cultural and scientific frameworks for investigating the supernatural—a legacy that persists as we continue to probe the boundaries of knowledge and belief.