Alva Vanderbilt: life of the week

Summary

History Extra Podcast: Life of the Week

Episode: Alva Vanderbilt

Date: September 15, 2025
Host: Eleanor Evans
Guest: Nancy Unger, Professor Emerita of American History, Santa Clara College of Arts and Sciences

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Episode Overview

This episode of Life of the Week explores the remarkable, complex life of Alva Vanderbilt—Gilded Age socialite, social climber, architectural tastemaker, advocate for women’s suffrage, and study in contradictions. Professor Nancy Unger guides listeners through Alva’s rise from Southern cotton heiress to the pinnacle of New York society, her bold challenges to established norms, and her lasting, if controversial, legacy in American history and women’s rights.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Alva's Origins and Upbringing

[03:26 – 09:01]

• Birth and Family Background
  • Born Alva Erskine Smith in Mobile, Alabama, 1853, to a moderately wealthy cotton merchant family who enslaved nine people.
  • Summers in Newport, European vacations; "not fabulously wealthy, but well-to-do."
  • Moved from Alabama to New York, then Paris, as fortunes shifted post-Civil War.
• Early Personality and Conduct
  • Headstrong, rebellious, not a “shrinking violet”—Alva only played with boys, fought her governess, and even slapped her piano teacher.
  • Tyrannized the enslaved child assigned to her:
    • Quote: "It was a case of absolute control on my part." — Alva Vanderbilt [05:47]
  • Felt the weight of patriarchal disappointment when her brother died:
    • Quote: “I got the sense he'd rather have [...] the positions reversed, that he, he wished I had died instead of this son. And she claims that this is this rude introduction to male privilege and the whole patriarchal system.” — Nancy Unger [05:47]
• Views on Slavery and Society
  • Family left a church that preached against slavery; brought enslaved people to New York, despite its illegality.
  • Alva was acutely aware of—and embattled by—the constraints on girls and women of her era.

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2. Rise in New York Society & Gilded Age Context

[09:01 – 16:43]

• Entering New York’s Lofty Social Circles

  • Returned to New York in 1869 amidst a family downturn; mother died soon after.
  • The Gilded Age characterized by vast new fortunes, industrialization, and social tension between “old money” (exemplified by Caroline Astor) and upstart “new money” families.
    • Quote: "It's not just having money that makes you a social leader. It's having that history." — Nancy Unger mimicking 'Old Money' ethos [09:25]
  • The Astors maintained exclusivity, famously limiting the “acceptable” circle to 400 guests.

• Alva’s Marriage and Calculations

  • Married William Kissam Vanderbilt (grandson of Commodore Vanderbilt).
  • Marriage driven by ambition, not love; Alva saw it as a way to regain and elevate her social and financial standing.
    • Quote: "You never get the sense she's madly in love with this guy. But she's certainly interested in his money and his social status." — Nancy Unger [12:49]
  • Quickly bore the required heirs—daughter Consuelo (her foremost ambition) and two sons.

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3. Architectural Impact & Social Spectacle

[16:43 – 24:38]

• Tastemaker and Influencer
  • Alva found the NY elite’s brownstones dull—ushered in a new era of ostentatious architecture by commissioning Richard Morris Hunt to build her grand “Petite Chateau” on Fifth Avenue (an entire city block).
  • Quote: "If you've got it, flaunt it. I mean, it is really something." — Nancy Unger [18:21]
  • Invited press and public, turning her home and life into spectacle; “an influencer of the Gilded Age.”
• Triumph at the Costume Ball
  • 1883: Hosted a spectacular costume ball for 1200 guests; the New York Times invited to cover.
    • Quote: "This party cost like a quarter of a million dollars, which is roughly $5 million today." — Nancy Unger [20:37]
  • Forced old guard’s hand: Caroline Astor attended, acknowledging Alva's new primacy.
  • Helped found the Metropolitan Opera when excluded from the old Astor-controlled opera boxes.

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4. Family Ambitions & Ruthlessness

[24:38 – 29:26]

• Sons given conventional paths; focus on daughter Consuelo
  • Determined Consuelo marry into European aristocracy, not for love but for power and social standing.
    • Quote: "Only in Europe can women really have power and control." — Nancy Unger on Alva's views [24:54]
  • Forced Consuelo to marry the Duke of Marlborough—despite her daughter’s clear misery.
    • Quote: "She is clearly miserable... in 1895, they marry because this is what Alva Vanderbilt wants." — Nancy Unger [24:54]
• Scandalous Divorce
  • Simultaneously, Alva sought and won a divorce on the grounds of adultery—an unthinkable move for an upper-class woman.
    • Quote: “I don’t think society will fall if I divorce my husband for adultery.” — Alva Vanderbilt (paraphrased) [28:37]
  • Society was more scandalized by her public divorce than her husband’s infidelity.
    • Quote: "It is much more scandalous that she sought a divorce than that her husband committed adultery." — Nancy Unger [29:35]
  • Secured $10 million settlement, remaining defiant and unapologetic.

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5. Suffrage, Feminism & Alva’s Final Act

[30:53 – 35:52]

• Turning to Advocacy

  • After her second husband’s death (and his adultery), Alva, at 55, plunged herself and her fortune into the women’s suffrage movement in the US and UK.
    • Quote: “She had always chafed at the stereotypes of women as the weaker sex, and she was so frustrated by the double standard between men and women…” — Nancy Unger [31:15]
  • Alva stood out as a more militant, equality-focused feminist—advocating not just the vote but legal equality for women and focusing on working-class and women of color (rare at the time).
    • Quote: “We should have the vote because we're equal, and we should have not just the vote, but equal legal rights.” — Nancy Unger (her summary of Alva’s position) [31:15]
  • She was, however, no silent partner: wanted to direct efforts, could be difficult and inflexible but gave significant support.

• Complex Self-Reflection and Contradictions

  • Little self-reflection; when Consuelo sought annulment from the duke after her own divorce and happy remarriage, Alva testified it was her fault—but only because she thought the testimony would be private.
    • Quote: "She's one of the least reflective people I’ve ever heard of." — Nancy Unger [34:14]
  • Supported women of color and workers' unions but was "absolutely awful" as an employer at home.

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6. Legacy and Final Thoughts

[35:52 – End]

• Enduring Influence

  • Changed the face of American domestic architecture; recognized by the American Institute of Architects and President Barack Obama (Belmont-Paul Women’s Equality National Monument).
    • Quote: "[She] really did change architecture. She had real influence. She wasn't just letting Hunt do everything." — Nancy Unger [36:17]

• Maddening Mix of Traits

  • Simultaneously “self-absorbed, ruthless, demanding, obstinate” and a genuine force for change.
    • Quote: “She crammed an awful lot of life into her life. She was really abrasive but very active and she seized life and got all she could out of it.” — Nancy Unger [36:17]
  • Even her funeral eulogy referenced her “ruthless determination.”

• A Telling Anecdote

  • Unger shares a revealing “terrible example” in Alva’s letter of condolence to a bereaved employee in which Alva, obliviously, congratulates her for now being “childless” and free to devote herself to her work, forgetting she had another living child.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "I'd rather be whipped than sitting around doing nothing. She said she'd rather be a rebel than a victim." — Nancy Unger on Alva’s childhood defiance [05:47]
• "If you’ve got it, flaunt it." — Nancy Unger on Alva’s approach to wealth, society, and architecture [18:21]
• "She wants recognition as a leader. [...] If you want my money, you do it my way." — Nancy Unger on Alva's drive in the suffrage movement [31:15]
• "Part of me thinks, okay, basically this is a self-absorbed, ruthless, demanding, obstinate woman. I just find her repugnant. And yet this is a woman who did [...] try to make things better, especially for women." — Nancy Unger on Alva’s contradictions [36:17]
• "She crammed an awful lot of life into her life." — Nancy Unger [36:17]

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Timestamps for Significant Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |------------|------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:26 | Alva’s Early Life in Alabama & Paris | | 09:01 | Entering New York Society & Gilded Age context | | 12:49 | Calculated marriage to William Kissam Vanderbilt | | 16:43 | Architectural innovations; the "Petite Chateau" | | 20:37 | The 1883 Costume Ball—Alva's social triumph | | 24:54 | Consuelo's "dollar princess" marriage | | 28:37 | Divorce from William; breaking societal norms | | 31:15 | Alva's pivot to suffrage and feminism | | 34:14 | Reflections on legacy, contradictions, and family dynamics | | 36:17 | Summary of her lasting impact and contradictions | | 39:01 | Anecdote: Alva's tone-deaf condolence letter |

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Conclusion

Alva Vanderbilt was a singular force: a boundary-pushing, often abrasive woman who helped shape the visual, social, and political landscape of Gilded Age America and beyond. Her quest for power and status was both audacious and ruthless—yet she leveraged her privilege for real change, particularly in women’s rights and public architecture. As Nancy Unger concludes, Alva was a woman "who contained multitudes," and whose legacy, like her life, resists any easy summing up.

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Transcript

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[Eleanor Evans]

Hello and welcome to Life of the Week where leading historians delve into the lives of some of history's most intriguing and significant figures. From ancient Egyptian pharaohs and medieval warriors to daring 20th century spies in 19th century America's so called Gilded Age. The exclusive society of New York's old moneyed families was shaken up by the arrival of a new breed of wealth. And none led this charge more than Alva Vanderbilt, wife to one of the nouveau riche tycoons dubbed robber barons, the headstrong Alva forced her way into New York's elite circles, clambering to the very top through strategic social climbing. Before turning her steely ambition to other causes, Alva's story offers a closer look at the concerns and maneuverings of America's wealthiest citizens at the dawn of industrialization and mass media. Our expert for this episode is Nancy Unger, Professor Emeritus of American History at Santa Clara College of Arts and Sciences, and she was speaking to Eleanor Evans.

[Podcast Host]

Our subject today is one of the Vanderbilts. You might have heard this name as a great, wealthy American dynasty, but you might not have heard of our subject. And today's professor, Nancy Unger, is going to take us all through her life. Nancy, thank you so much for joining me today.

[Nancy Unger]

Oh, it's just a pleasure. I'm so eager to be talking with you about Alva Vanderbilt.

[Podcast Host]

Well, let's dive right in. Can you situate Alva in this story of this broad dynasty and in American history? When are we talking about here?

[Nancy Unger]

Well, I want to begin by saying that I think a lot of people are interested in her right now because she's being played by Carrie Coon in the television series the Gilded Age. So if you're familiar with that series, Bertha Russell is clearly modeled on Alva Vanderbilt. So that might be a little helpful context. But very briefly, Alva is born Alva Erskine Smith in Alabama in 1853. She ends up marrying into this incredibly wealthy family, and she works very hard to become a leading socialite. And she may be best known for being so determinedly, socially ambitious that she forces her daughter into a clearly loveless marriage. So she essentially buys a title for her daughter, even though she knows she does not want to marry this man. So there's a whole chapter there. There's so many juicy stories about her that I think we kind of lose an emphasis on her role in architecture that really gets overlooked. And I think that's something we should take a little bit of a closer look at. She's also very famous for divorcing her husband on charges of adult, which was simply not done in the upper classes. And the fact that she does that and she survives socially is really quite fascinating. And then she has a final act where she's 55 when her second husband dies, and she devotes herself and her considerable fortune not just to getting American women the vote, but to really promote what we would call today a feminist agenda. And she does so on quite an international scale, and she puts a lot of money into this. So that's just sort of a rough overview.

[Podcast Host]

What a great introduction. And what riches lie ahead. There are so many aspects of her life I can't wait to get into. But if we go back to the beginning for a minute, you mentioned Alabama in the 1850s is where we first find Alva. What does this mean for Alva and her family, and what are her early years like?

[Nancy Unger]

Well, it's an interesting family. They're in Mobile, Alabama. And her father is not a big plantation owner. He's a cotton merchant. Cotton is king in the South. And even though they don't have field hands and so forth, this particular family has enslaved nine people. And so they're not fabulously wealthy, but they are well to do. By that I mean that they summer in Newport, Rhode island, and they take European vacations. And Alva Vanderbilt, she is a slave owner. She grows up as a child and she's very open about the fact that she would just tyrannize enslaved children. There was an enslaved child that was assigned to look after her. And she said she just terrorized this, this poor child. She said, quote, it was a case of absolute control on my part. So we get a chance of this very headstrong girl. And she also is not a little shrinking violet type. She fought against authority, she fought against her governess, she slapped her piano teacher. She is just very headstrong, very outspoken, spoken. She tells this story that one of her earliest memories was the death of her 13 year old brother when she's about 4. And she says her father is so devastated. She said, I got the sense he'd rather have, you know, the positions reversed, that he, he wished I had died instead of this son. And she claims that this is this rude introduction to male privilege and the whole patriarchal system. As critics have pointed out, this is almost an identical story to the one told by feminist Elizabeth Cady Stanton. So it's like, I mean, it's not impossible that this happened to both of these women. But, you know, Alva Vanderbilt had a pretty casual relationship with the truth throughout her life. So one way or another, she is really frustrated with the restrictions placed on girls. She will only play with boys. She refuses to be a spectator. She gets in trouble all the time and she gets whipped for it. And she said, yeah, I'd rather be whipped than sitting around, you know, doing nothing. She said, she'd rather be a rebel than a victim. So those are her early beginnings. Then the family moves to New York, long the hub for the cotton trade. And they bring their enslaved people with them, which is technically not legal. But to give you a sense of their ideas about slavery, they join the local Episcopal church. And when the pastor preaches against slavery, they quit going to that church. So to wrap this up, after the Civil War, they still have some money. The father moves his business to London and the family moves to Paris, where Alva and her mother and her sisters live in an apartment right off the Champs Elysees. And she Goes to a fancy French boarding school. The family travels a great deal, and she says, quote, I had my own way all the time. I was a law unto myself. So she's this very strong, spirited girl.

[Podcast Host]

Yes, you've definitely given us a sense of that energy and that dynamism and ambition that she brings from the off. And obviously, very much within the sort of structure of the time, a patriarchal society, a society in which slavery still exists and is very prevalent. Let's turn to New York and the welcome that awaits Alva in terms of the society and the hierarchy there. What does she find?

[Nancy Unger]

Well, it's such a fascinating time in American history. The family returns to New York in 1869, and her mother dies there just a couple years later. Alva is only 18, and after a year of mourning, she is introduced to New York society. The family is kind of on the edge. They are coming downward financially. And her father just doesn't have the kind of new ambition and desires and business. He can't compete with the fact, pace, and ruthless world of this new business. So to back up a little bit, this is called the Gilded Age because on the surface, it really does look like gold. I mean, we've got this new wealth, immigrants coming in, providing cheap labor. We have industrialization, urbanization. The United States is going from this kind of rural, sleepy, agrarian nation to a big industrial powerhouse. And particularly in New York, she's definitely witnessing this and sort of a part of it, but she is struggling. She wants to be on top. And there is such a power struggle going on between the old money and the new money and the old money. So there are families in New York that have been there for generations, since before the American Revolution. And this is really sort of personified by Carolyn Astor. And these are the ones who say, well, it's not just having money, money that makes you a social leader. It's having that history. These new money people who are making these vast fortunes, like the original Commodore Vanderbilt, who made his money in railroads and shipping. It's like this guy is practically illiterate. He's vulgar, he's awful. You can't just buy your way into society simply. No, these people are just. This nouveau riche thing is just awful. So she's going to be really a big part of this Gilded Age struggle at the highest level of society. So that's sort of the milieu that she's coming into.

[Podcast Host]

And is it right very quickly to divert that Caroline Astor later has a list of 400, or is there a list of 400 people that are deemed, quote unquote, acceptable society. This is the rarefied picture we're looking at here.

[Nancy Unger]

Precisely. And the myth is that the number is 400 because that's how many would fit into her ballroom. That's not true. More than that will fit into her ballroom. She actually keeps the number at 400 to make sure it is exclusive. And we're not gonna let this new riff raff come in. She will be the arbiter of who rules in society. And she's really, you know, and it's not just her, but there really is in New York. The press loves this, this sort of battle between the two. So it is definitely going on.

[Podcast Host]

So this is what Alva's up against. Before we go much further in her story, I just do want to shout out to if anyone wants to know more about the Gilded Age. We did a podcast, the two of us, a few years ago. Now on the History Extra feed, people can find. It's everything you wanted to know about the Gilded Age. So please do go search for that conversation if you would like to know more about this era in general. But to return to Alva's story, this is what she's up against. She obviously has to marry well. This is what she's sort of supposed to do. How does she go about it?

[Nancy Unger]

Well, she's interesting. She has a year of mourning after her mother dies, and then she enters into society. And if you Google her, the pictures show her always as this kind of dowdy, middle aged matron. But if you dig down or you do a search for young Alba Vanderbilt, she's a beautiful young woman. She has this dark red hair, she's vivacious. She went to school in Paris. You know, she has a lot going for her that's going to be attractive in society. And she does not set her cap for old money. And she's very calculated. She ends up marrying William Kissim Vanderbilt, who's the grandson of Commodore Vanderbilt, the one who amassed over $100 million in shipping and railroads, the founder of Vanderbilt University. And that was back when $100 million was a lot of money. I mean, they were just incredibly wealthy. And so I think that, you know, and she's from a good family and she is vivacious and strong and interesting. So I think we can see why Willie Kay, as her husband was known, would be attracted to her. And we certainly can see, knowing what we know about her, why she's attracted to him. You never get the sense that she's madly in love with this guy. But she's certainly interested in his money and his social status. And she also said later that she was motivated by the fact that her family's finances were in decline and this was going to be good for her and good for the family. It's interesting. Her father dies of a heart attack two weeks after the wedding, and she and her siblings do. They inherit a modest fortune. She's 22 years old, and she begins the marriage doing the standard things a wealthy matron would do. They live in a brownstone home, the traditional, you know, old school family house. And she does what she needs to do, which is she has a baby. Her daughter Consuelo comes first, and then the Commodore dies and leaves his grandson $3 million, which is equivalent to about $90 million today. So she stays the domestic course for a while. The next year, she has a son, another William Vanderbilt. And then she begins to challenge convention with a vengeance. She partners up with Richard Morris Hunt in 1881, and they start to design buildings together. She says these brownstone houses that all the elite live in are ugly. And she said, you know, I've been to Europe a lot. I've seen fabulous homes. I've seen how they're decorated. And she says, we need some of Europe's architectural beauty here in New York. And she's particularly fascinated by the late Gothic and early Renaissance period. And so they start working together, and they build this house on Fifth Avenue in Manhattan, and it's called the Petite Chateau. Well, it takes up an entire city block. But what's interesting is not just, oh, she indulges herself and she does this. She really does start a trend. The Astors and others say, oh, this is so vulgar. And she says, you just don't have any imagination. This is a good thing. And to her credit, she does start a real trend in changing the architecture, adapting and adopting a lot of European styles and so forth. So even when she's the mother of two young children, she gets very, very involved in this. And she does finally have a third child, her last child, in 1884. So she's building the family, but she's not just going to stay home and be the proper wife and mother and social butterfly.

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[Podcast Host]

So she's becoming a bit of a tastemaker. She's obviously influencing a lot of how the wealthy are deciding to spend their money in New York and beyond. Can you take us a little bit closer into that fifth Avenue mansion?

[Nancy Unger]

Well, it's interesting. Prior to this Gilded Age period, the very wealthy entertained and they entertained rather lavishly, but they did it at home quite privately. You didn't want to be ostentatious. You certainly wouldn't leak to the press that you're having this party and so forth. Again, the focus is on keeping the social circle small and very exclusive. And again, Caroline Astor sees herself as sort of the gatekeeper for this kind of thing and she wants to keep out the ostentatious, crude new money people like Alva Vanderbilt. One of the ways she does this is the official opening of the winter social season was the opening night of the Academy of Music. And there are only 18 opera boxes. This is really a sign of the great wealth and elite. If you have an opera box, she controls who gets one of these. So Alva Vanderbilt is just like, no, no, no, no, no, first of all, I'm going to be left out of that. And also it's too staid, it's too old school. You know, we need to really shake this up. And so she kind of turns her life into a public spectacle. She really advertises this new home. She invites the press to see it. She presents herself as a woman who is using her wealth and acumen to change and improve society. So there's this, you know, she's not kind of coming hat in hand saying, please take me in. She's saying, hey, you know, I have new ideas. And this is going to be, you know, much better. Her fifth Avenue house is mansion, is the embodiment is if you've got it, flaunt it. I mean, it is really something. But she says, you know, it's not tacky. It's beautiful. And she showcases the Vanderbilts wealth and her own knowledge of European architecture, art history. And when she's criticized for being vulgar, she says New Yorkers are just too limited and provincial to appreciate what she's doing.

[Podcast Host]

I don't want to draw too simplistic a through line here, but I'm really getting a sense of like an influencer of the Gilded Age. I don't know if you have any sense of that too.

[Nancy Unger]

Oh, I think it's. I think that that is what she wants to be, is an influencer of the Gilded Age. And she is meeting resistance from this old school aster contingent. But two things are in her favor. She is incredibly wealthy, and she is just determined to make this happen again. She's not waiting to be accepted. She's like, no, if the old school won't accept me, then we'll create a new school and this is what we're going to do. And I think the kind of crowning moment of this is when she has a costume ball in her house in 1883 for 1200 guests. 1200 guests. I mean, her house will hold 1200 guests. And she invites a New York Times reporter to come tour the house and give a report. And the Times just sort of merely describes what's been going on. The New York world sneers, oh my God, this party cost like a quarter of a million dollars, which is roughly $5 million today. And they're trying to make it out that she's just trying to survive of bi influence. But it's really significant that in the end, Carrie Astor comes to the party. Clearly Alva Vanderbilt has won. And there's a story that to get invited Carrie Astrahead to come and call on Alpha Vanderbilt. Whether this is true or not, one way or another, Vanderbilt has had enough influence now that basically Aster kind of caves. And she now has to invite Alva Vanderbilt to her parties. And Vanderbilt, she just does not quit. She's very upset that she hasn't been able to get a box at the opera. So she and some other kind of scorned new money families create the Metropolitan Opera house, bigger and better than the old one. And it has 122boxes. So it opens in 1883, the same year that she has this big costume ball. So clearly, this is sort of her year, and she's not just challenging the old guard. She really is winning in this. In 1886, her win gets even bigger when her husband inherits $65 million from his father's estate. And again, I mean, even today, $65 million is a fair chunk of change. It's astronomical. So, I mean, they commissioned the largest private yacht ever built to that point, and she continues to develop it since all of the elite have their summer homes in Newport. In 1892, she works again with the same architect, and they complete Marble House, her architectural triumph. Next door to Mrs. Astor's house, I mean, it cost millions and millions of dollars. It had a staff of 36 servants. So she continues to, you know, to build and grow and expand and draw attention to herself as a leader.

[Podcast Host]

So scale and opulence do seem to be the order of the day. And, I mean, I think I'm getting a sense from you of the legacy that she's carving out for herself in terms of this grandeur and this spectacle. And I do urge any listeners interested in that 1883 costume ball to Google a few of the comments if you're interested in Met galas and things like that in the modern day. These costumes are incredible, aren't they?

[Nancy Unger]

Oh, they're just so over the top. I mean, the costumes cost gazillions of dollars, and they're. Yeah, they're part and parcel of this whole. There's no such thing as being too rich. And for her, it's not just showing how wealthy she is. It's that she knows who these historical figures are. She knows her history. It's part of this whole package that she's selling of herself.

[Podcast Host]

So she's got the status. She's sort of arrived in this rarefied circle of society. She obviously has children who she will want to carve this better life for them as well. What are her ambitions for her children and how does she go about pursuing them?

[Nancy Unger]

Her ambitions for the sons are pretty standard. She just wants them to be, of course, enormously successful, and they do go into business, and they're fine. Where she really pins her hopes and wants to really sort of show her leadership is with her daughter, Consueria. She says she wants the very best for her daughter, and if her daughter marries an American man, she will just end up being the wife. She'll have children. She might be a little bit socially active, but that's as far as she'll go. So Alva Vanderbilt says, no, no, I want better for my Daughter, she must marry a aristocrat. She does not have any intention of her daughter marrying a love match. Love does not come into this. In fact, Consuelo had been secretly engaged on her 18 birthday to this man that she seemed to really love. And her mother says, no, absolutely not. You must be an aristocrat. And she has this painting done of Consuelo that's kind of like an advertising poster, kind of presenting her in this sort of very royal way. And she says, only in Europe can women really have power and control. If you marry some big, wealthy landowner, then you automatically have a position of power and authority within your community. And she says, this is what I want for my daughter. No American suitors are allowed. And this is part of that dollar princess phenomenon that was going on at the time. Various European families that were struggling financially would marry wealthy American women, get a big influx of cash and be able to proceed. So Alva really has decided this is what her daughter's going to do. She picks Charles, Richard John Spencer Church, who's the first cousin of Winston Churchill and a duke, and she just proceeds in this ruthless campaign. It's like a business merger. And, you know, she is just adamant that this is going to happen. And the poor Consuelo is a sort of a prisoner in her house. She knows her mother, she gets steamrollered over. And she basically says, later, I was brought up to obey. And so this is what she does. She is clearly miserable. Her husband didn't think much of her either. They have a desperately miserable marriage, but in 1895, they marry because this is what Alba Vanderbilt wants and what she believes is going to cement her reputation. And in many ways it does, because right at the same time, she is divorcing her husband, which is not done. I mean, it's not done pretty much throughout American society, but definitely not at the highest levels. And we can get more into the divorce a bit later, if you're interested. But my point is, this is a woman who has flaunted the rules, done an absolutely forbidden thing. Her daughter's marriage, she believes, will benefit her daughter, and it certainly benefits her, because Americans are suckers for royalty. And so they don't say, oh, we can't go to that wedding, because, you know, Elva van der Bilt got a divorce. Her celebrity, her wealth, and now this royal tie keep her in place even during this really scandalous period.

[Podcast Host]

So she's been steely eyed in accomplishing this match for her daughter at the expense of her daughter's happiness. And like you say, in one way, she's sort of obsessed with that idea of status and arriving at the highest levels. And literally the same time, she sort of snubbing society and saying, I don't care. I'm going to divorce my husband. What prompts this?

[Nancy Unger]

Well, I don't think it was a surprise to anyone that he was an adulterer, but that was par for the course. Wealthy men had mistresses. Everybody knew it. And it was really. A true lady would not acknowledge such a thing. She would certainly get her mind out of the gutter. She should be doing other things anyway, and these things happen, and that's that. And Ella Vanderbilt. No, they don't happen to me. This is not acceptable. And she said, you know, I don't think society will fall if I divorce my husband for adultery. And I think more women should be doing that. I mean, she's very unapologetic. And she gets a settlement north of $10 million so she can continue on with what she's been been doing. So the rules do not apply to her. And she said, and they shouldn't apply to other people either.

[Podcast Host]

And what sort of precedent does this set? I mean, how is it received by society at the time or the press at the time? What sort of waves does it cause at this moment?

[Nancy Unger]

Oh, it is much more scandalous that she sought a divorce than that her husband committed adultery. I mean, this is really breaking some major taboos. The family lawyer says to Alva Vanderbilt, society is looked up to by the masses because, you know, we're a little bit better. We control ourselves, we handle things. We don't air our dirty laundry in public. You are bringing us all down. And she said, first of all, I don't believe that, and this is not right, and no woman should have to put up with this, and I'm not going to. And that's it.

[Podcast Host]

So she's making a real statement in late 19th century US, she absolutely is making a statement.

[Nancy Unger]

And, yeah, the press goes after her, people in society go after her. And she's totally unapologetic. She has no second thought. She just doesn't care. And I think part of the reason she just doesn't care is because she just doesn't care. And also, she doesn't have to care. She has worked so skillfully to make herself sort of at the top of the heap that nobody can make her slink away and be ashamed. Between the daughter's marriage, loyalty, all the money, she figures she'll survive it. And she's right.

[Podcast Host]

Well, she does survive it. There is a second marriage, which we can go into. But I'm also really interested to turn to another act in her life. She, as you mentioned at the top of the interview, she turns towards advocacy for women's rights. I'd really like to explore why Alva does this when she's so, you know, she's so privileged. She's so set for life as it seems. What makes her turn to this?

[Nancy Unger]

Cause it's a good question. In some ways, I think it's consistent with how she'd been, you know, her whole life. She, after her divorce, remarries, and she and that husband do the kind of rich, socialite life. They travel on the yacht, they do things and so forth. But when he dies, first of all, she finds out that he was committing adultery. And I think she's just so fed up with men and so tired of men being able to do whatever they want to do. Her children are grown. She's, like, 55 years old. She's like, well, okay, so she just throws herself into women's rights. She had always chafed at the stereotypes of women as the weaker sex, and she was so frustrated by the double standard between men and women and her powerlessness in relation to her first husband. She just long resented male power and privilege. So after her second husband dies, she really started paying attention to the women's suffrage movement in England and in the United States. And she's interesting because there are lots of women in the United States who say, well, suffrage is just. We're just sort of extending women's maternal qualities. We're the caretakers and the uplifters, and that's why we should have the vote. And she says, no, we should have the vote because we're equal, and we should have not just the vote, but equal legal rights. I mean, she is really much more of a feminist than most women are at this time. And so she takes up with some of the other, the more militant branch of the American women's suffrage movement. And when I say, you know, she takes this up, I mean, she pours a ton of money into these movements. She gives buildings, she gives cash. But she's Alva Vanderbilt. She's not what you'd call a silent partner. She wants to make sure that everybody knows that she is doing this. She wants recognition as a leader. I mean, it comes as a cost, at a big cost, because as we know, she's very stubborn. She wants things her way. She does not brook any kind of, well, let's sit down and compromise. You want my money? You do it my way. So she's very, very involved, but she's very, very hands on. You know, these women just really appreciate her. And some of her, she's just this rich, you know, woman. This is her new plaything. But she certainly gives very meaningful support.

[Podcast Host]

And is there any sense of this second act? I guess, as we sort of do turn towards her final chapter, any self reflection or how is she regarding herself in these final years? Is there a reconciliation with her daughter or anything that brings her sort of a bit more, I don't know, more human? Yeah, I suppose.

[Nancy Unger]

Well, she's one of the most, from what I can gather, least reflective, self reflective people I've ever heard of. Two times in her life she hires a ghostwriter to help her write her memoirs, but it never goes anywhere. Consuelo finally divorces her husband, the Duke, and she marries into a much, much happier marriage. But the new husband's family does not recognize the marriage because they don't recognize divorce. So Consuelo seeks an annulment. And to her credit, Alva Vanderbilt goes and testifies and says, because she's been promised that this will be under seal, nobody will ever know this. She said, yes, this was all my fault. I forced this. I didn't care about my daughter's feelings. I did what I thought was right, but this was my bullying and so forth, and it's leaked to the press. And she's mortified by this because this one moment where she was really kind of being honest about her failings, she would do it only if she thought it was really going to be private. So she's an interesting person in that, for example, unlike many, many white women in the United States at this time, when she talks about feminism, she's talking about working class women, women of color. She really champions these women. She puts money into their unions and so forth. But all of her own servants hate her because she's so demanding, so unsympathetic, you know, will slap servants and I mean, she's just absolutely awful. So she's this really weird kind of mix.

[Podcast Host]

Yes. Alva is just a woman who contains multitudes. It's clear. I wonder if you can, as we begin to wrap up, bring us a bit of her legacy. You've mentioned the architecture and the sort of legacy of opulence that she left behind as well. And obviously her work for the women's suffrage movement. She's also been immortalized in various ways in popular culture. Can you begin to bring us closer to that as we wrap up the Episode.

[Nancy Unger]

It's very, very hard because she is such a contradiction in so many ways. Even at her funeral, the eulogist talks about her ruthless determination. I mean it's just undeniable that this woman is. She needs constant attention, sympathy, admiration, praise, affirmation. And so part of me thinks, okay, basically this is a self absorbed, ruthless, demanding, obstinate woman. I just find her repugnant. And yet this is a woman who did. I mean, she could have taken her vast fortune and put it on black playing roulette. She could have just done things to indulge herself. She really does, however wrong headed, try to make things better, especially for women. Here in California, where I live, there's this house from this period called the Winchester Mystery House. It was another very wealthy woman who had all this money and she builds endlessly on her house and she doesn't know what she's doing. You can tour it and there are stairs that go nowhere and it's an absolute mess. Alva Vanderbilt really did change architecture. She had real influence. She wasn't just letting Hunt do everything. And she was recognized by the American Institute of Architects, which was a rare achievement for a woman. She was recognized by President Barack Obama. In 2016, he establishes the Alva Belmont. So she's Alva Vanderbilt Belmont, the Belmont Paul for Alice Paul Women's Equality National Monument. So, you know, she really is doing some things that are being recognized. So is she a really difficult, obstinate, stubborn, selfish woman? Yes, she is. But does she make real change and in many ways positive change? Does she force her daughter into a loveless marriage? Yes, she does. But she genuinely thought this would be the way to empower and enrich her daughter's life. So she's a hard one to sum up in one pithy sentence. There's a lot going on there. Just preparing for this interview, I way over prepared because I kept going down these rabbit holes. Wait, she did what? Oh, I have to know more about that. Wait, she got involved in that? She had a relationship with this person? I mean she really is just. She crammed an awful lot of life into her life. She was really abrasive but very active and she seized life and got all she could out of it.

[Podcast Host]

Well, I have to ask now, just as we end things, Nancy, are there any nuggets, just from the research that you did that we haven't been able to cover yet today that you want to leave us with?

[Nancy Unger]

Well, this is just a terrible example, but one of the women that she had hired to be her ghostwriter had an unusual background. She and her husband divorce, but they had joint custody of their two children. So after she's not working for Alva anymore, she is driving and her 18 year old son is in the car. They have an accident and the son dies. And so Alva writes her a sympathy note. But in the sympathy note number one, she forgets that this woman has another child. She says, really sorry this happened, but now that you're childless, isn't this great? Now you can really devote yourself without any other responsibilities to doing what really matters in life. I mean, Jesus, it's just such a, such a horrible thing. But it's, I think it's very revealing of the way that she viewed life.

[Eleanor Evans]

That was Nancy Unger, professor emerita at Santa Clara College of Arts and Sciences. She was speaking to Eleanor Evans. Thanks for listening to today's Life of the Week. Be sure to join us again next time to learn about another fascinating figure from the past.

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