Beer history: everything you wanted to know

Summary

History Extra Podcast Summary: "Beer History: Everything You Wanted to Know"

Release Date: July 19, 2025
Host: John Baucam
Guest: Professor Phil Withington, Social and Cultural Historian at the University of Sheffield

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Introduction

In this engaging episode of the History Extra Podcast, host John Baucam delves deep into the rich and diverse history of beer. Joined by Professor Phil Withington, the conversation spans from the enigmatic origins of beer in prehistoric times to the vibrant craft beer revolution of the modern era. This comprehensive exploration uncovers the societal, cultural, and technological factors that have shaped beer into the beloved beverage it is today.

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The Ancient Origins of Beer

[03:11] Phil Withington:
"It's important to be clear about what we mean by beer... Modern consumers might think of beer as simply the addition of hops to the fermented grain, which is a bit of a shorter history."

• Prehistoric Fermentation: Professor Withington explains that the concept of fermenting grains likely dates back approximately 80,000 years, although concrete evidence remains elusive. Early fermentation methods were probably integral to human survival, offering nutritional and preservative benefits.

• Archaeological Evidence: More tangible evidence of beer production surfaces around 10,000 years ago, coinciding with the advent of agriculture and the domestication of cereals. Written and visual records from 5,000 years ago in Mesopotamia and ancient Egypt solidify beer's status as a societal staple.

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Medieval Brewing and the Role of Monasteries

[07:11] Phil Withington:
"The medieval period is really important as a break from the pre-hop beer and the post-hop beer, which we know and love today."

• Introduction of Hops: The early Middle Ages marked the significant addition of hops to beer, transforming its flavor, preservation, and commercial potential.

• Monastic Influence: Monasteries played a pivotal role in brewing advancements. They cultivated hops purposefully, ensuring a consistent supply for brewing. These religious communities became centers for brewing excellence, fostering both household and eventual commercial production.

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Diversity in Medieval Beer Strengths

[09:22] Phil Withington:
"Medieval beer was various strengths. It depended on the production process... there was an enormous range of strengths that people could have." [09:22]

• Varied Alcohol Content: Medieval beers ranged from small beer with low alcohol content, serving as a daily nutritional staple, to much stronger brews used for special occasions.

• Reconstruction Experiments: Projects like the British Museum's recreation of ancient Egyptian beer reveal possible high alcohol content, challenging the notion that modern beers are significantly stronger than their historical counterparts.

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Beer and Public Health: Safer Than Water?

[10:52] Phil Withington:
"Whether it was purely for health that people avoided water, or whether it was more for reasons of taste and so on, it's difficult to call." [10:52]

• Nutritional Value: Beer, especially low-alcohol variants, provided essential nutrients and safer hydration compared to often-contaminated water sources.

• Cultural Preferences: Beyond safety, taste preferences and societal norms contributed to beer's prevalence as a daily beverage.

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Women in Medieval Brewing

[12:38] Phil Withington:
"Women were largely responsible for beer production... However, as brewing became commercialized, women were excluded from large-scale operations." [12:38]

• Household Brewers: Up until the 16th and 17th centuries, women dominated household brewing, producing beer for family consumption and local exchange.

• Shift to Commercial Brewing: The rise of commercial breweries marginalized female brewers, who were excluded from guilds and large-scale production, relegating them to smaller, less profitable brewing roles.

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Beer and Masculinity

[15:04] Phil Withington:
"The consumption of beer, especially in its more ritualized forms, tends to be perceived as masculine rather than feminine." [15:04]

• Social Drinking Rituals: Beer consumption often involved elaborate social events and drinking games, reinforcing its association with masculinity.

• Cultural Norms: While women participated as consumers, their presence was typically alongside men, reflecting broader societal gender dynamics.

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The Industrial Revolution and Beer Production

[21:22] Phil Withington:
"Breweries were at the forefront of industrialization, leading in scale, product diversification, and technological advancements." [21:22]

• Scale and Technology: The Industrial Revolution propelled breweries into large-scale operations, introducing innovations that increased production efficiency and product diversity.

• Notable Incidents: The 1814 Mu & Co. Brewery disaster in London exemplifies the massive scale of industrial breweries, highlighting both their capacity and the potential hazards of rapid industrial growth.

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Global Influence of British Brewing Traditions

[24:33] Phil Withington:
"The influence of British beer brewing on the rest of the world is significant both in terms of the export of production techniques and ingredients." [24:33]

• Export of Techniques: British brewing methods, particularly the use of hops, were disseminated globally, influencing brewing practices in regions like New England and Ireland.

• Cultural Integration: British beer styles adapted to local tastes and ingredients, leading to the creation of iconic styles such as porters and stouts, which became integral to various national beer cultures.

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Temperance Movement and Its Impact on Beer Culture

[27:58] Phil Withington:
"Temperance is especially concerned with spirits and with distilled liquors, which are much stronger and perceived to be more damaging...beer can continue." [27:58]

• Focus on Spirits: The Temperance Movement primarily targeted strong distilled spirits rather than beer, though it advocated for moderation across all alcoholic beverages.

• Legislative Actions: Efforts like the 1551 licensing act in London introduced regulations on beer production and consumption, laying the groundwork for future legislative measures.

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Prohibition in the United States

[29:52] Phil Withington:
"Prohibition and temperance are cut from similar cloth, but their impacts diverged significantly in the UK and the US." [29:52]

• Implementation and Failure: Prohibition in the US (1920-1933) sought to eliminate alcohol consumption but ultimately failed due to widespread non-compliance, smuggling, and the rise of organized crime.

• Legacy: Despite its failure, Prohibition inadvertently fostered a homebrewing culture that later contributed to the craft beer revolution.

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The Craft Beer Revolution

[32:09] Phil Withington:
"The craft revolution is a reaction to corporate, rather bland, homogenous products, fostering experimentation and a return to diverse brewing traditions." [32:09]

• Roots in Homebrewing: The legacy of Prohibition-era homebrewing combined with dissatisfaction with mass-produced beers fueled the rise of craft breweries focused on quality and diversity.

• Cultural Significance: Craft beer embodies values of individualism, experimentation, and historical appreciation, resonating with modern consumers seeking authentic and varied beer experiences.

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British Craft Movements: CAMRA and Beyond

[34:45] Phil Withington:
"In the UK, organizations like CAMRA have long venerated real ale, creating a unique interplay between traditional brewing and modern craft movements." [34:45]

• CAMRA's Role: The Campaign for Real Ale (CAMRA) has been instrumental in preserving traditional brewing methods and promoting diversity in beer styles within the UK.

• Integration of Movements: Unlike the more polarized US craft scene, the UK experience blends established traditions with new craft innovations, reflecting a more nuanced relationship with mainstream and artisanal brewing.

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Modern Reconstructions of Historical Beers

[36:21] Phil Withington:
"Recreating historical beers is challenging due to differences in equipment, ingredients, and techniques, making true authenticity elusive." [36:21]

• Experimental Brewing: Academic and brewing institutions attempt to reconstruct historical beer recipes, such as the British Museum's ancient Egyptian beer and Trinity College Dublin's 16th-century hopped beer.

• Taste and Authenticity: While these reconstructions provide insights, the exact flavors and characteristics of historical beers remain largely speculative, with some experiments yielding unexpected results like vinegary or bitter profiles.

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Common Misconceptions About Beer History

[39:06] Phil Withington:
"One major misconception is that beer is fundamentally British and that British identity is inherently tied to beer." [39:06]

• Global Origins: Professor Withington emphasizes that brewing techniques, particularly the use of hops, were imported to Britain by Dutch and Flemish immigrants, challenging the notion of beer as an inherently British invention.

• Cultural Identity: The association between beer and British identity is more a product of cultural evolution rather than inherent historical origins.

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Conclusion

This episode of the History Extra Podcast offers a thorough exploration of beer's journey through time, highlighting its integral role in societal development, cultural practices, and technological advancement. Professor Phil Withington provides nuanced insights that debunk common myths and illuminate the multifaceted history of beer. From ancient fermentation practices to modern craft revolutions, the story of beer reflects broader human experiences and societal shifts.

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Notable Quotes:

• Phil Withington at [03:11]:
  "It's important to be clear about what we mean by beer... Modern consumers might think of beer as simply the addition of hops to the fermented grain, which is a bit of a shorter history."

• Phil Withington at [15:04]:
  "The consumption of beer, especially in its more ritualized forms, tends to be perceived as masculine rather than feminine."

• Phil Withington at [39:06]:
  "One major misconception is that beer is fundamentally British and that British identity is inherently tied to beer."

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Additional Resources:

• British Museum Ancient Egyptian Beer Experiment: British Museum Website

• Trinity College Dublin Brewing Projects: Trinity College Dublin Research

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This summary is intended to provide a comprehensive overview of the podcast episode for those who have not listened. For the full experience and in-depth discussion, subscribe to the History Extra Podcast on your preferred podcast platform.

Transcript

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Welcome to the History Extra Podcast. Fascinating historical conversations from the makers of BBC History magazine. Beer is one of the world's most popular alcoholic beverages, from refreshing lagers to amber ales and creamy stouts. And there's a style for virtually every drinker to enjoy. But how did this winning combination of water, hops, malts and yeast become such a staple in the first place? In this episode, John Baucum talks to Phil Withington to answer your questions on beer's boozy history, from medieval monasteries to the modern pub.

[Phil Withington]

Phil, firstly, welcome back to the History Extra Podcast.

[Galactus]

Oh, thank you. Great to be back.

[Phil Withington]

So we had you on the pod back in 2022 to talk about the history of alcohol, and now we're going to do a deep dive specifically into the history of Beer as ever. With all these episodes, we've had tons of questions from listeners on X, on Facebook and Instagram, but for now, we'll just kick off with a really general one. Just how far back does the history of beer go?

[Galactus]

It's a very good question, difficult to answer, and I think we could start by saying it's important to be clear about what we mean by beer, because beer can refer to fermentation of grain in general, and that's a very, very long history. Modern consumers might think of beer as simply the addition of hops to the fermented grain, which is a bit of a shorter history. But if we go with the first definition, this idea of fermented grain in general, I guess there's two ways you could think about it and the way in which archaeologists think about it. There's a kind of general speculation, quite good speculation, that the fermentation process goes right back to the first days of human consumption and so on, which makes an incredibly old story indeed, of about 80,000 years. But there's no evidence to actually to prove that it's based on a series of assumptions about the digestive system and how people would have survived and lived in those times. And then there's a second archaeological approach, which is more about finding the evidence of kind of production and consumption of fermented grains in the past. And then you're relying on traces of evidence in the material world, which the technology means that that's become a bit easier to do in recent decades, in which case you're looking possibly at 10,000 years ago and the time when humans started to settle down and they domesticated cereals. And fermentation would have been a feature of that process. And then an extra level of accuracy comes with the written record and visual record. And then you're looking at about 5,000 years ago, with Mesopotamia in the Middle east and Egypt, ancient Egypt, where in both societies beer was clearly a staple.

[Phil Withington]

So the archaeological evidence is quite hard to come by then, and there's a lot of speculation.

[Galactus]

Would you say there is, I mean, archaeology by its nature, pre, you know, the really old archaeology, it's very difficult and there is some fantastic speculation and theorisation going on relating to fermentation and that it must have come before cooking, for example. Fermentation is essentially a way in which the body, the human body digests food or drinks outside of itself because it hasn't got the size of stomach which other mammals have to do the digestion inside. And all the evidence suggests that cooking came after fermentation and there's no reason that grains couldn't have been part of those foodstuffs which were fermenting, which people saw worth menting and consumed accordingly. But then you have, as I said, the use of DNA tracing and lots of technical stuff I don't really understand, which is enabling a lot more kind of precise dating and more informed speculation, if you like, as you get a bit further forward in time. And so there's great work going on in China, in Georgia, in that kind of the Middle Eastern area as well, which shows that alcohol was very prominent in societies once they settled down, and that cereal fermentation, which is essentially beer, would have been one of the leading kinds of drink that would have been consumed.

[Phil Withington]

So although we don't know too much about beer in prehistory or in ancient history, we do know quite a bit about beer in the Middle Ages, don't we? How did beer making evolve during this time?

[Galactus]

Yeah, so in the Middle Ages, in the early Middle Ages, we can be kind of sure that the common garden weed of hops, which is the kind of the key additive of modern beer, we can be kind of sure that hops began to be added to malt and water and yeast and transformed the nature of the production process and the possibilities of its trade and commerce as well. So the medieval period is really important as a break from the pre hop beer and the post hop beer, which we know and love today.

[Phil Withington]

And what role did monasteries play in the development of beer?

[Galactus]

Well, monasteries had a really important role in medieval beer consumption and production. Monasteries, on the one hand, were places where we can be sure that hops were grown purposefully and deliberately, rather than just kind of growing on, on verges and as weeds, which is what the wild hop does. It's not necessarily clear that these hop gardens, as they're called, actually were designed to provide hops for beer, because hops were also used in medical and other preparations. But at the same time, it's also clear that as self sustaining communities, monasteries were places where you would have had brewing. And it would have been likely that the kind of relationship between hops and malt and water was kind of initially pioneered, but not necessarily on a commercial basis, because there's an important difference between kind of institutional production that you would get in monasteries and subsequently household production kind of home brewing. And then this idea of commercial brewing, which is the big breakthrough in the later Middle Ages.

[Phil Withington]

And this is a question that comes from David Crowther on Facebook, and he wants to know just how strong was.

[Galactus]

Medieval beer Medieval beer was various strengths. It depended on the production process. They could be quite precise in terms of whether they did something that was weak, small beer, as it's known, right through to very strong beer, which would have been, you know, in your high teens or even higher in terms of percentage of alcohol. There's been some fantastic reconstruction projects at the British Museum about eight years ago, where they actually tried to recreate Egyptian beer, beer that would have been brewed in ancient Egypt. And they found there that using the system which they kind of worked out, the Egyptians might have used from the objects that survived, the ceramics in particular, they found that actually more of the sugars was turned into alcohol than in the boiling process that we have in modern times. And I think that there's a great website blog actually, if people, listeners wanted to go to it about that, the British Museum Ancient Egyptian beer experiment. But they said it was delicious and could have been obviously very strong. So I think there's always been. There's this idea that we drink stronger beer than in the past, but I don't think that's the case. But it's more the case that there was varieties of strength that people could have, depending on cost, the occasion on which the beer was going to be drunk and so on.

[Phil Withington]

And is it fair to say then that. That the prevalence of beer is because it was safer to drink than water?

[Galactus]

I think people did drink beer, especially small beer, which is the weak beer, as their main form of kind of sustenance, nourishment, hydration and so on in the medieval and early modern periods. Whether that was entirely due to fear of water and worries about the safety of water, that's a bit of a more of a meat point. Obviously water supplies could be problematic. They could be dirty and water could be used for different purposes. But there were available wells and so on. Even in towns, you would have had some kind of clean water supply often as well. So whether it was purely for health that people avoided water, or whether it was more for reasons of taste and so on, it's difficult to call. Obviously, in kind of wine drinking societies like Rome, ancient Rome and Greece, you would have had diluted wine, wine diluted with water in the same way that you would have had beer in northwestern Europe, for example, in the medieval period. And there's also this idea that people just didn't drink water isn't true. And there's also also the case of spa water becoming a commercial product over the course of the 16th and 17th centuries and being traded around Europe and sold commercially and that was water that was perceived to be good for you. So it's a bit more complicated than saying it was just for health reasons. But there's definitely a preference for very weak alcoholic beverages as the main source of daily nutrition, I think.

[Phil Withington]

And, Phil, what role did women play in medieval brewing?

[Galactus]

It's a really interesting question. The whole gender dynamics and politics of brewing and consumption in the medieval, early modern and indeed modern period. And I think the big narrative is, I think that women were largely responsible for beer production, whether it's beer without hops, which was known as ale in England, or beer with hops, if that production was going on in the household, or if it was done locally, perhaps to be sold to neighbours or exchanged to neighbors for other services and goods. And so in the medieval period, up to the 16th and 17th centuries, you could probably say that women dominated ale and beer production, if we take England as an example. But at the same time, once people realized that the addition of hops made a product that was durable and transportable and storable, and that this product could be sold for quite a lot of money, that is that it was a commercial commodity, you see brewing become more of an industry. And although you would still have women engaged in that industry, certainly in the production process, what women weren't able to do was participate in the kind of the guilds and the corporate institutions that industries tended to acquire in the medieval period. And so you have women, as it were excluded from commercial brewing as commercial brewing became more lucrative. And commercial brewing in turn made certainly local production less common. It didn't stop household production. So home production remained an important feature of brewing through the medieval and early modern period. But it did mean that women were excluded from the big bucks, so to speak. You don't get the big breweries run by women in the period.

[Phil Withington]

That sort of ties into the next question I have here, which is from Caitlin on Instagram, and it's. Has beer always been associated with masculinity in the way it often is today?

[Galactus]

Well, yeah, this is a continuation of that question about gender politics and gender issues, isn't it? So even when, if we think about it in terms of production and consumption, even as women are excluded from the kind of the brick brewing operations, they're still associated with the retail of beer and ale and they often run the ale houses and inns and so on that you have, again, if we keep taking them as our case study in England in the early modern and sort of modern period, but at the same time, what you. You have Is the consumption of beer, especially in its more ritualized forms, to do with drinking games, which are very common throughout history, kind of social, elaborate social events and so on. They tend to be certainly perceived as masculine rather than feminine. And, and that isn't to say that you don't find women in ale houses or pubs and so on as consumers, but they would often be with men rather than a single women or as women on their own. Although that isn't impossible too obviously. There is an issue of sources as well about actually spotting people in real life and who's in nail houses and who isn't. But there is this kind of, I suppose, a cultural norm that it's going to be masculine in terms of its ethos and its participation and so on. So a short answer is essentially yes, in terms of the kind of the heavy drinking, the ritualized drinking and so on. And when women were present, it would be as men and women rather than women on their own. And I think you also find on that note, a lot of the moral literature about overindulgence and intoxication and so on address primarily at men, certainly when it comes to beer. And a lot of masculine attributes in turn are kind of articulated through, well, either the capacity to drink enormous amounts and still be okay, or to be able to moderate your drinking and kind of be someone who can stay in control of themselves and situations even when excessive drinking is expected. So a lot of being a man, so to speak, throughout history has revolved around those kinds of skills, if you like, or forms of control.

[Phil Withington]

Fascinating. Yeah, it doesn't seem like much. Changes rated tea for teen each year.

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[Phil Withington]

And Phil, you talked about the rise of commercial brewing during the early modern period. Were there any laws governing how beer should be made by this point?

[Galactus]

Yeah, the idea of regulating production, that was very important. And this was one of the main justifications for having guilds, brewers guilds, who would, as well as kind of ensuring that the monopoly of brewers wasn't broken, they would also enforce production regulations and so on. There's very famous examples from Germany and from the Low Countries, which is obviously where the hopped beer originated and came over to England in the 13th and 14th centuries. But in England as well, in London, you have guilds for ale and for beer functioning and regulating production by the end of the 15th century and elsewhere across the country as well thereafter. You also find that in London that breweries tend to often open up in Southwark, which is outside the jurisdiction of the City of London. And so they might have expected to be able to not be as regulated or as monitored as brewers within the city. But I think guilds were able to use regulation and the maintenance of standards as a way of some kind of control over the production of beer and ale. In terms of retail, the licensing system was surprisingly early. I guess it's 1551 is the first kind of licensing act where regulations about what can be sold and how people should behave in alehouses is passed. And thereafter you get a lot of legislation at the end of the 16th century and the beginning of the 17th century, which is implemented by magistrates and by constables and is actually quite a fierce licensing system by the 17th century.

[Phil Withington]

Yeah, that is surprisingly early. And if we jump ahead, Phil, to the Industrial Revolution, so I suppose we're going to the late 18th century, early 19th century. What impact does that have on the production of beer?

[Galactus]

So the impact of the Industrial Revolution on beer production and consumption is, again, it's really interesting. I think it should be viewed really in terms of industrialization more generally. And historians nowadays are probably a bit cautious about saying there's a sudden revolutionary moment in terms of industrialization. It's a gradual development in terms of the scale and the technology involved in industrial production. And beer is actually at the forefront of that gradual development. So even from there's the great beer historian Peter matthias, in the 1950s and 1960s, was arguing that breweries were at the kind of the forefront of industrialization, if you see what I mean, from the later 17th and 18th centuries through to the big takeoff in the 19th century, both in terms of scale and in terms of the product diversification which they try and introduce, the introduction of new brands and new types of beer, and also the technology that they use to kind of refine brewing processes. And that continues into the 19th century as well. And I guess that isn't to say there isn't a huge, you know, things don't get even bigger because they do so. But it's this idea of gradual growth rather than sudden growth. There's quite a famous story from October 1814 in London, when it's the Mu & Co. Brewery M E U X, which I've never actually known how to pronounce properly. They had these huge vats for brewing porter, which is one of these beer product innovations in the 18th century in their brewery in St Giles in London. And one of the vats exploded, basically, it's kind of metal protection fell off. And that kind of had a domino effect on some of the other vats. And there was so much beer that was released that eight people were drowned in the surrounding neighborhood, killed by the beer. Because there was so much beer was released, over a million gallons. So I think that's kind of almost the sort of emblematic story about how large these breweries became by the 19th century. And I think there's. Preceding that story, there's that tragedy when the vats were actually launched. There was a kind of celebratory dinner and they managed to fit 200 people into the vats to have dinner. So they had a sort of celebratory feast. So we're talking very, very large operations, even by the standards of the kind of industrial revolution. I think that probably indicates the scale of production by the 19th century.

[Phil Withington]

How do British brewing traditions influence brewing outside of the country? How do styles such as porters and stouts, pale ales, etc. How are they received abroad?

[Galactus]

So I think the influence of British beer brewing on the rest of the world is significant both in terms of the export of production techniques and ingredients. For example, hops has been exported as a kind of key ingredient technology to New England in the Americas by the 1620s. And you have the development of a kind of New England brewing industry thereafter, or the movement of porter and stout, the dark beers, through new production practices with either malted or roasted barley becomes obviously a massive feature of Irish diets. So you have that kind of process going on. You also have at the same time the use of beer in some of the darker aspects of our global history, if you like, from the 17th century, at least in the sense that beer is quite popular with African chiefs and so on, on the Gold Coast. And it's part of the kind of the culture of exchange through which enslaved Africans were purchased and taken over to the Caribbean, to the sugar plantations and so on. Beer is obviously one of the reasons it becomes popular in England in the first instance when it's brought over by Dutch and Flemish immigrants, is that because it's durable and transportable. This is beer with hops, of course. It's really useful and important for military campaigns and for ships and long distance travel. So it's very much part of our military history as well as our drinking history. So in all of these ways, and then I suppose as you have the spread of British culture around the world through interactions in Southeast Asia and obviously Australasia subsequently and so on, you have the same kinds of products and the same kinds of tastes moving outwards to those places. I don't know. I think it's also useful to remember that it isn't really just about Britain and British beer as well. If you think about the most popular beers in America today, these can be traced. They have a genealogy which goes back to Germany and to Czechoslovakia and the lager production process, which comes to Britain very late, albeit very successfully in the 20th century. And they probably have those kind of techniques, and those products have probably a much bigger purchase on global tastes than the British beers today. And it's also useful to remember that British beer itself was an adaptation of North European techniques and products. Anyway, it came quite late to Britain in the context of northwestern Europe. So big influences, but also should be understood within context, I think.

[Phil Withington]

And talking about beer culture, what impact does the temperance movement have on that?

[Galactus]

So the temperance movement develops in the 19th century ostensibly as a reaction against increased consumption and kind of antisocial behavior within mostly urban communities. I think in the first instance, although there isn't a rural dimension to it, beer is certainly part of the overall problem. And there's a lot more beer being consumed in the early 19th century through to the 1870s. But temperance is especially concerned with spirits and with distilled liquors, which are much stronger and they don't have the kind of nutritional value that beer can claim and are perceived to be more damaging to working class households and working class communities than beer. So obviously a general culture of moderation militates against excessive consumption of beer, which that certainly is something they're chatting against. And the extreme kind of policy of complete abstinence obviously affects beer drinking as well. But I think, by and large, the main enemy of temperance is the world of spirits, the distilled liquors rather than the fermented liquors. And you have some kind in. Some of the pleasures that you can find are actually they condemn spirit drinking, but notes that beer drinking can continue. That isn't always the case, but there is a difference, I think, that's drawn, between distilled and fermented liquors by temperance to a large degree.

[Phil Withington]

So gin bad, beer good.

[Galactus]

Yeah, exactly, yeah.

[Phil Withington]

And if we hop across the pond, Phil, what about Prohibition in the US? Because that comes in in 1920 and lasts till 1933.

[Galactus]

Yeah. So I think prohibition and temperance are cut from the similar kind of clothes, obviously, in terms of attitudes towards brewing, distilling and consumption within the uk, temperance is running out of steam pretty much by the. Well, that's probably not fair. It's not necessarily running out of steam, but there's a bit of a kind of gridlock between the political parties for and against temperance, or taking temperance forward as a kind of national agenda before. In the years before the First World War, before temperature 1914. And the war itself proves much more important, really, in resolving that gridlock and setting the frame for how things develop in the 20th century in the UK. In America, obviously, you don't have that dissipation of the prohibitive energy, if you want to put it like that, and they managed to secure a kind of prohibitive agenda in the earlier 20th century. And so take that kind of perspective and that suspicion of excess consumption or any consumption to kind of new levels on a kind of national basis.

[Phil Withington]

So it's already embedded within American culture then by 1920. But how successful is Prohibition overall? The fact it only lasts 13 years suggests it probably wasn't.

[Galactus]

Yeah, I mean, I think obviously there are the usual problems relating to kind of a war on a substance to do with smuggling, organized crime and so on, and all the kinds of things that you see in the war and drugs on a. On a global scale in the decades after Prohibition. I think one of the really interesting aspects of Prohibition as a kind of. As a failure, if you like, is the impact on home brewing in America as well, and the fact that you have this tradition of garden and garage production which continues thereafter and actually flourishes in the later 20th century, when it kind of is one of the factors behind the explosion in the craft beer phenomenon that you see in the States.

[Phil Withington]

Yeah. So just talk us through that, this craft beer revolution, then. How widespread is it?

[Galactus]

The craft revolution is a really interesting Feature of kind of later 20th, early 21st century American and subsequently UK and European society. On the one hand, as I said, you have this tradition of home brewing and so on, which is given a kind of inadvertent boost by the prohibition years and continues generationally thereafter. But at the same time you also have the development in America on a. On in the usa on a larger scale to the uk, the monopolization of kind of mainstream beer production and consumption by a few large companies and the creation of some very, of a very homogenous and some would say bland product. And so craft is. I mean there's lots of. I'm not sure we really understand it all properly because it's so close, but there's lots of factors going into the craft revolution, but certainly a reaction to this corporate, rather bland, homogenous products, to the advertising that accompanies it, along with this kind of garage culture, if you like, the homebrew culture, which is bubbling along and gets a boost in the later 20th century, leads to this culture of experimentation and resistance, reaction to the mainstream drink culture, to a sense of a real curiosity about the history of beer and the different kinds of beers that have been lost kind of along the way, so to speak. A fetishization of hops and different kinds of hops and what you can do with hops, a real interest in strengths and so on, which obviously has had a significant impact on these two generations of drinkers since it all kicked off in the, in the 70s. So really, really interesting about what it tells us about kind of individualism and consumption, masculinity. Again, going back to the previous question about masculinity, often this is a culture associated with a particular kind of masculinity. Yeah.

[Phil Withington]

And then if, you know, focusing specifically on the uk, this is where we get organizations like Camera, the Campaign for Real Ale coming up, don't we?

[Galactus]

Yeah, yeah. So I mean, I think craft as a phenomenon, obviously craft has become a very contested term and some would say it's now been re appropriated by the big companies and they're kind of using it to abuse it sort of thing as a term as well. So a lot of politics and economic politics going on about craft, but I think you can say that this whole kind of spirit of individualism, experimentalism, historicism as well, if you like, that's going on in the States does come over to the uk, but it's a bit different in the UK because Camera and the whole cask phenomenon, the protection and veneration of real beer had always been There, despite the development of the lager culture and the kind of the big companies in the uk. So how craft as an American movement lands in the UK as a kind of movement, cultural movement, is quite a bit more complicated because it's not quite as the divide, isn't quite as rigid between the mainstream and the kind of the reaction to the mainstream as you do have or had in the Americas, I think.

[Phil Withington]

And I've got a question here from Emily Fenton on Instagram, and that's in terms of taste, how similar are these kind of modern recreations to their historical predecessors? So, you know, for instance, a modern IPA versus an original ipa.

[Galactus]

Well, this is so the issue of taste and reconstruction, of course, this is one of the growth areas, not just in craft production, but also in academic culture as well. There's a big, I mentioned earlier the British Museum attempt to recreate ancient Egyptian beer. There's a fantastic project at Trinity College Dublin, led by Susan Flavin and her team to do the same for kind of hopped beer in 16th century Dublin as well. And I think, you know, you can find these experiments all over the place. But ultimately it's really difficult to, and I'm not going to use the word authentically because authentic is a, is a dodgy term in itself or potentially problematic, but it's very difficult to recreate in a kind of meaningful sense exactly how beers were being produced in the, say in the 18th or the 17th or the 16th centuries, because the equipment, the crops, the ingredients and the sources of energy and the techniques are just so different and so difficult to actually reconstruct accurately in that sense. So I think you never quite know really what things were tasting like then and how accurate the reconstructions are today. But as I said, as we discussed earlier, there was an enormous range of strengths and tastes that could be produced, you know, in the medieval as well as the early modern period. And I think probably that is a, is a decent framework to think about the, the range of possibilities that have been attempted today. It's that kind of the range and diversity, I suppose, witchcraft has embraced in part because of its reaction against the kind of the late 20th century mainstream, which is probably the, is that sense of that ethos which is more meaningful than actually getting a real taste. That's actually what it would have tasted like, what we know it would have tasted like on an 18th century ship going out to India or whatever, if you see what I mean.

[Phil Withington]

Yeah, it'd be impossible to really truly know, I suppose.

[Galactus]

No, I don't think so. Unfortunately not The Dublin project I mentioned, they went to an enormous length to try and reproduce everything as historically accurately as possible. And they, I think Professor Flavin said the taste was a bit disappointing in the end. It was a bit vinegary or bittery, I think, but who knows?

[Phil Withington]

And finally, Phil, what is the biggest misconception people have about the history of beer?

[Galactus]

So the biggest misconception that people have about the history of beer. That's a good question. I think there's a great website by Martin Cornell which has hundreds of misconceptions. I was just browsing that over the weekend. But my favorite one, or I think the most important one for me, is the misconception that beer, and this is speaking as a kind of historian of Britain and the wider world, it's the misconception that beer is sort of, kind of fundamentally British and that British identity is wrapped up in beer. I think even the kind of cursory understanding of the history of beer indicates that England gets the technology of brewing with hops relatively late. And it does so entirely through Dutch immigrants and Flemish immigrants in the 15th and 16th centuries and kind of borrows and learns and steals the technology rather than kind of has it a part of its indigenous soul, so to speak. So I think that link between beer and identity, I think that particular kind of identity is one that I think should be disabused, really.

[John Baucum]

That was Phil Withington speaking to John Baucam. Phil is professor in Social and Cultural History at the University of Sheffield and he joined me on the podcast before to discuss the history of alcohol more broadly. If you're curious to find out more about the deadly gin cross, or to uncover the secrets to a 17th century punch recipe, you can find that now by searching for the History of alcohol. Everything youg Wanted to Know. Wherever you get your podcasts, thanks for listening. This podcast was produced by Lewis Dobbs.

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