Black women and the fight for human rights

Summary

History Extra Podcast – Black Women and the Fight for Human Rights

Date: September 11, 2025
Host: Rob Attar
Guest: Dr. Keisha N. Blaine (Historian, author of Without Fear: Black Women and the Making of Human Rights)

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into Dr. Keisha N. Blaine’s research on Black American women’s historic fight for human rights from the 19th century to the modern day. Dr. Blaine explains how these women defined and advocated for human rights—not just in the US civil rights context, but as a global, divinely inspired mandate. The discussion explores the intellectual, organizational, and transnational methods these women used, the unique barriers they faced, and their ongoing legacy in today’s activism.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Defining Human Rights: A Divine and Global Framework

[02:49]

• Dr. Blaine describes how Black women’s notion of human rights evolved:

  “Broadly speaking... human rights as divinely inspired protections... not tied to a particular nation state... it’s about recognizing that because they are human, there are certain guaranteed protections that are essentially God given rights.”

• Their conceptualization was both global and rooted in universal humanity, superseding political boundaries or nation-states.

The Relationship with American Political Traditions

[04:14]

• Black women did not separate civil rights from human rights; these struggles were deeply interlinked.

  “It’s not so much that they were advocating human rights and not thinking about civil rights, but that they saw the two as inseparable.”

• Example: Ida B. Wells linked US constitutional rights with international standards of human dignity, calling lynching both a violation of civil and human rights.

Advocacy Methods: Building Alliances & Harnessing Journalism

[05:57]

• Black women relied on transnational solidarity, organizing across borders to amplify impact when blocked within the US.
• Journalism was a vital platform:

  “One way to do so was through writing... it becomes an avenue where they are talking to people broadly and making that argument, saying, listen, we deserve better. And not solely as citizens of the United States. We deserve better because we are human.”

• The Black press allowed their voices and visions to circulate, nourish debate, and galvanize wider communities.

Confronting Triple Oppression: Racism, Sexism, and Class

[08:16]

• Black women faced intersectional barriers: racism, sexism—including within Black institutions—and class struggles.

  “So multiple battles, if you will, at the same time... They didn’t only advocate for themselves... they make a larger argument that everyone... deserves certain protections.”

• Their inclusive vision propelled a universal argument for rights regardless of background.

On Solidarity and Tensions with Other Groups

[10:33]

• Black women collaborated with Black men and White women, but conflicts over priorities (e.g. some white feminists avoiding anti-racist work) caused tension:

  “She [Ida B. Wells] was really willing to work with anyone willing to work with her. And the truth is that some people didn’t want to work with her, including, you know, white feminists at the time who wanted to talk about women’s rights, but didn’t necessarily want to confront racism.”

• These relationships were crucial but often fraught.

Political Establishment Responses: Variation and Repression

[12:11]

• Some, like Mary McLeod Bethune, could enter US and international institutions (helping draft the UN Charter), gaining respect and some influence.
• More radical activists, especially those linked to the communist left, faced surveillance, travel restrictions, and repression:

  “At the very same time, they’re facing government repression because they’re tied to the communist left... being targeted, surveilled, and their ideas are not being fully embraced.”

Instrumental Roles in the Civil Rights Era

[15:10]

• Featured: Margaret Cartwright’s connections between African decolonization and the US civil rights movement. She bridged local and international struggles, introducing figures like Martin Luther King, Jr. to African leaders.

  “[Cartwright] played a key role in merging these two histories... She attended the Bandung Conference... and made the argument that what’s happening here is tied to our struggles within the US context.”

International Campaigns and Messy Solidarities

[19:31]

• Early Black women like Madam C.J. Walker supported Afro-Asian solidarity—sometimes even collaborating with Japanese activists pre-WWII, though such relationships could be “messy and complex.”
• These international networks sometimes brought suspicion, arrest, or isolation, especially during the Red Scare and WWII era.

Spreading Ideas: The Crucial Role of the Black Press

[22:13]

• The Black press disseminated news, debate, and international perspectives, keeping non-travelers informed and fostering dialogue:

  “The newspaper becomes such a powerful source... not just for me, the researcher, but thinking about it within the historical context and the political moment.”

• Letters to editors and reprinted articles created a shared consciousness.

Facing Resistance and Surveillance

[26:09]

• Black women activists were surveilled by government agencies, and sometimes ostracized from their own communities for controversial alliances or politics.

Shifting Focus Post-1960s: Housing, Policing, and Urban Advocacy

[28:35]

• After landmark civil rights victories, the focus shifted to policing, housing, and ongoing systemic inequalities.

  “Now the focus has shifted to other things... women shift their focus on police violence and state sanctioned violence broadly in the 1970s, in the 1980s, and in the 1990s...”

Legacy in Contemporary Activism

[31:37]

• Dr. Blaine sees clear connections between early and current Black women’s activism, especially during and after the 2020 protests:

  “I could hear the echoes of some of the things that I had been reading about from the 20s, from the 30s, from the 40s, and I started to draw those connections... even when individuals pass away, ideas continue to circulate.”

Personal Stories: Kadi Diallo and Living Legacies

[33:58]

• The story of Kadi Diallo (mother of Amadou Diallo, killed by NYPD in 1999):

  “She essentially goes from not being too interested in politics to someone who then plays a key role in the struggle for human rights, because she’s transformed by the experience... gives herself completely to this struggle.”

• Her experience exemplifies “human rights from the ground up”—how ordinary people become extraordinary agents for change through personal tragedy.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [02:49] Dr. Blaine: “For these women, it’s about recognizing that because they are human, there are certain guaranteed protections that are essentially God given rights. And because they’re divinely inspired, no one can essentially take them away.”
• [05:57] Dr. Blaine: “Transnational political solidarities... became one avenue. One of the other things... journalism... at a moment where so many of these women were largely shut out of the more formal political spaces.”
• [10:33] Dr. Blaine: “People were willing to work with others as long as they felt like they were collaborating with someone who respected them... even if there were complexities and difficulties along the way.”
• [28:35] Dr. Blaine: “Now the focus has shifted to other things... women shift their focus on police violence and state sanctioned violence... They ultimately say this is a violation of human rights... we need to let the world know what’s happening in our communities...”
• [31:37] Dr. Blaine: “It’s so, I think, fascinating the way that activists of today draw upon this longer tradition and at times are not even aware that they’re doing so, but they are doing so... it gives you a sense of hope.”
• [33:58] Dr. Blaine (on Kadi Diallo): “This is essentially an ordinary individual who felt compelled to do something and did it, and to this day continues to work transnationally... Just a very inspirational figure.”

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:36] — Opening of main conversation: How Black women defined and refined human rights
• [05:57] — Strategies, solidarities, and the pivotal role of journalism
• [08:16] — The compounded challenges of racism, sexism, and class
• [10:33] — Collaborations and conflicts across gender and racial lines
• [12:11] — Responses from political establishments and government repression
• [15:10] — Black women’s instrumental roles in civil rights campaigns
• [19:31] — Global alliances and the complexity of transnational activism
• [22:13] — The Black press as a window to the world and a forum for debate
• [26:09] — Surveillance and internal community resistance
• [28:35] — Shifts in activism focus post-civil rights legislation
• [31:37] — Modern echoes: The legacy and influence on contemporary activists
• [33:58] — Personal story: Kadi Diallo’s transformation after her son’s death

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Conclusion

This episode offers a rich, nuanced look at Black women’s crucial—yet too often overlooked—role in advancing human rights in America and beyond. Through strategic alliances, intellectual innovation, and persistent courage, these women asserted that human rights transcend boundaries, identities, and eras—a struggle that persists and inspires to this day.

Recommended Reading:

Kesha N. Blaine, "Without Fear: Black Women and the Making of Human Rights" (Norton, 2024)

Transcript

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Of $45 for a three month plan equivalent to $15 per month Required new customer offer for first three months only Speed slow after 35 gigabytes of networks Busy taxes and fees extra. See Mintmo welcome to the History Extra Podcast. Fascinating historical conversations from the makers of BBC History Magazine. Despite the significant obstacles they faced in their own lives, Black women in the United States were at the forefront of campaigns for human rights at home and abroad. In her new book, Without Fear, historian Keisha N. Blaine tells the story of some of these women who, in the 19th and 20th centuries, worked outside of the corridors of power to fight for freedom. She was joined in conversation by Rob Attar.

[C]

Your book explores how Black American women have advocated for human rights across the 19th and 20th centuries. How did these women define human rights and did that then change over time?

[B]

Well, the first thing that's Important to emphasize here is that as we're moving across time, certainly black women are refining their ideas about human rights, not surprisingly, very much shaped by external factors. What's taking place across the globe, but also what's taking place on a national level. I think broadly speaking, the women who I discuss in the book conceptualize human rights as divinely inspired protections, which of course are guaranteed on the basis of their humanity. These are protections that are not tied to a particular nation state. And they're able to push for these rights, arguing that it's much larger than a claim to citizenship rights, which of course, we talk about often in the context of African American history. For these women, it's about recognizing that because they are human, there are certain guaranteed protections that are essentially God given rights. And because they're divinely inspired, no one can essentially take them away.

[C]

Did these women also then draw on the American political tradition when looking at human rights, for example, things such as the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, things like that?

[B]

They did because it's important to understand that even though I focus on how these women conceptualize human rights rights, how they advocated for human rights, I am also talking about many individuals who saw themselves as civil rights activists, which is to say that they were advocating for rights within the national context, and they saw that fight as deeply intertwined with a larger struggle for human rights. It's not so much that they were advocating human rights and not thinking about civil rights, but that they saw the two as inseparable. And so even as they're drawing on several core ideals that we can talk about in the global context, they were also thinking about. You mentioned the U.S. constitution. Certainly they were thinking about the ways that these documents were very much part of this conversation about the protections that black people should have. We see that in the case of Ida B. Wells as just one example, she's calling on the federal government to protect black people. And she's certainly referencing the Constitution, but not exclusively so. She's also making a larger claim that this is a global problem, that this is essentially a human rights abuse when black people are being lynched, that this is a violation of human rights, as it is a violation of civil rights.

[C]

In considering all the challenges that these women faced, particularly, I suppose, in some of the earlier years you write about, what methods were they able to employ to advocate for human rights?

[B]

The women I talk about employed a number of methods. One of the things that's really fascinating about talking about black women's political activism through the lens of human rights is it really Opens up a window into the importance of transnational political solidarities in particular, because what happens happens is that many of the women who I discuss in the book recognize that they can't actually make changes within the national context until they are really tapped into this broader conversation, you know, until they are thinking critically, working strategically with other freedom fighters in other contexts. So we see a lot of solidarity happening. We see people coming together, sometimes crossing geographical borders. That becomes one avenue. One of the other things that I highlight, too, is journalism that becomes a very important method through which black women advocate for human rights. They write about it, and at a moment where so many of these women were largely shut out of the more formal political spaces. As we know, many, for the most part, until much later, until the 1960s, could not vote in the US context. Which means that many of these women were trying to assert their political demands and figure out ways to do so. One way to do so was through writing. So I rely heavily on the black press in the book, and I spend a lot of time with these women's writings, as well as her speeches, just to show that it becomes an avenue where they are talking to people broadly and making that argument, saying, listen, we deserve better. And not solely as citizens of the United States. We deserve better because we are human. And that's actually the argument that we need to emphasize. And we need to shame the United States for their failure to give us these protections. That's the way that they framed it. And we see that through the columns they were writing in the 20th century. I think journalism is just yet another avenue and a method that these women employed to advocate for human rights.

[C]

Now, for much of this history, it would have been hard enough to do this as a black man. But what additional challenges did these women face?

[B]

So these women were constantly facing, on the one hand, racism as black women. They were dealing with racism, and they were also dealing with sexism. Because one of the other challenges that these women were facing was, of course, dealing with patriarchy, whether in the context of religious groups, for example, within black churches, Even as black women played vital roles. Roles in black churches historically, oftentimes had a very difficult time asserting their leadership in these spaces because they were very much male dominated in terms of the leadership structure. They were dealing with racism. They were dealing with sexism. They were at times, depending. I talk about women from various social backgrounds. Some of the women that I talk about were also facing challenges in terms of the class dynamics, because some of the women who I talk about are impoverished, impoverished or working. Class women. And they were also dealing with. With those struggles, so. So multiple battles, if you will, at the same time. And what's so important about their story, which is what I emphasize in the book, is that black women, even as they advocated for themselves, they certainly did that. They didn't only advocate for themselves. And that's the importance of placing their experiences and ideas within this human rights history. Really, what I'm saying is that we should see them as part of this. What they do is they make a larger argument that everyone, regardless of who they are, in terms of their race, in terms of ethnicity, the class doesn't matter. It doesn't even matter where they're located, that each individual deserve certain protections. And this was the argument that they were making. So they were advocating for expanded rights for black people without leaving other people out. And I think that is such a powerful message when we focus on the way that these women connected all of these struggles, particularly in the 19th and 20th centuries.

[C]

Were they able to work together with both black men and then women from other ethnic groups, mainly white women, on issues where they had common interests?

[B]

Absolutely. And I think we certainly see moments where there are tensions. I think that's always the case when we're talking about solidarities. Relationships are not perfect. So I capture in the book sometimes tensions, difficulties. We see that, for example, in the case of Ida B. Wells, someone who certainly advocated for human rights and collaborated with a range of people, she was really willing to work with anyone willing to work with her. And the truth is that some people didn't want to work with her, including, you know, white feminists at the time who wanted to talk about women's rights, but didn't necessarily want to confront racism. So there are so many examples in the book, and certainly in the history where some of these collaborations are. There's certainly fraught relationships at times. Disagreements unfold naturally. I talk about that in the book. But people were willing to work with others as long as they felt like they were collaborating with someone who respected them, recognized that they deserved rights, and pretty much shared this vision of advancing protections for all people, regardless of their racial background. So there's a lot of collaborations that happen, even if there were complexities and difficulties along the way.

[C]

And I know this is quite a broad question, but how did the American political establishment respond to these women?

[B]

I think the response varied. And one of the things that's important about the book is how I emphasize the stories, the voices, the ideas of women from diverse political perspectives. And that's important because what we find is that there are some women in the book who are able to enter certain spaces that are predominantly white spaces, even predominantly male spaces. And so, for example, we see that in the case of someone like Mary Bucleod Bethune, she plays a key role in the writing of the Charter for the United nations in 1945. She's someone who's able to be in these kinds of spaces and assert her voice doesn't mean that everyone listens to her. It doesn't mean that she gets exactly what she wants. But she's so well respected that certain doors open up for her and she's able to make strides in a more formal sense. That's a very different response than some of the women who I talk about, for example, women who are more radical in their perspective. Some of the more radical activists are trying to advocate for human rights, and they're doing so through their writings and their speeches, and they're trying to collaborate with various individuals. At the very same time, they're facing government repression because they're tied to the communist left. And so at the same moment that they're trying to improve conditions for all people, they're having to deal with the fact that they are being targeted, they are being surveilled, and their ideas are not being fully embraced because of their political position. So what we see are different responses, right? Those women are not welcomed into certain spaces, but they still advocate strongly for human rights. And that's part of what I do in the book, is I try to place all of these women side by side, because I'm trying to show that regardless of where people were on the political spectrum, whether they were more radical in their politics or perhaps more mainstream, whether they were connected to the communist left or the naacp, that collectively, what we see are these, I think, core tenets that women are advocating, and that is, and I talk about in the book, as advocating for universal rights, advocating for equal rights, and really making a case that regardless of where you live, who you are, your age, your religion, none of that matters, you deserve to be protected. You deserve to have certain rights guaranteed to you on the basis of your humanity. And so I bring together groups of people who are otherwise, I think, separated in the scholarship.

[C]

And how instrumental were some of these women in the civil rights campaigns of the 1950s and 60s?

[B]

I think these women were very instrumental in so many different ways.

[A]

And.

[B]

And one of the women who I talk about, for example, in the book is Margaret Cartwright, and she is someone who, in the 1950s and 60s, was very much at the forefront of the struggle for human rights. She traveled extensively. She was a professor, but also a columnist for several newspapers. And she traveled extensively during this period to meet with world leaders. You know, in 1958, she went to Accra, Ghana, to really talk to folks like Kwame Nkrumah and others who are advocating for the end of colonialism. And part of what she did was she connected these arguments to what was happening in the US On a national level. So she played a key role in merging these two histories, if you will. And she did so through her writings for an American audience. She would explain the significance of the struggle to end colonialism in Africa for an American audience. So she attended the Bandung Conference, and she wrote about the bandung conference in 1955 for an American audience and made the argument that what's happening here is tied to our struggles within the US Context. So just at the grassroots level, we have an example of an individual who's drawing those connections and saying, listen, as we advocate for expanded political rights, as we challenge segregation in the southern context, as we make this claim that we should have a right to equal education, that we should have quality housing, quality health care, et cetera, let's make sure we're placing this argument within this international context and we're drawing the connections for people. And she does that just beautifully as a writer. And so she's able to, on the one hand, be part of this struggle for human rights, and at the same time, she plays an instrumental role when it comes to the national context. Just to give another quick example of how she does this, at one point, she's actually introducing civil rights activists in the United States. She's connecting them to African leaders who she knows. And so she does this in the context of Kwame Nkrumah as just one example there. You know, I talk about in the book how at one moment she reaches out to Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. To make sure that he receives the invitation right to attend the celebrations for Ghana's independence as just one example. So she's this connector in a very powerful way. Most people don't know who she is. At the same time, she plays such a key role in this history.

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[C]

So you talk there about people within America working with people in Africa around the time of decolonization. Were there any other international campaigns that some of these black American women linked up with?

[B]

Yes, I think there were so many. And sometimes I mentioned earlier just the fact that this history can be so messy and complex. And we see that in the case of the 1930s, even earlier, I would say the 1920s and the 1930s. So just as by way of examples, I talk about in the book the efforts of Madam C.J. walker, who's very well known in the context of the fact that she's what we talk about as a self made millionaire and what she does in the context of the Paris peace Conference of 1919. She uses her funds as well as her resources, her networks to support a broader political movement that can best be described as Afro Asian solidarity. Now this is particularly important when we think about the pre history to the Bandung Conference that I reference, Madam C.J. walker. And so and several others come together and they decide that they're going to reach out to Japanese activists in this context. That history is. Is a complex one. But so many African Americans connected their histories, connected their experiences to Japanese people because they saw similarities in terms of how Japanese people were having to deal with colonialism and oppression. And they sought out collaborations. Well, up until I think the 1930s leading up to World War II. By the time we get to World War II, these kinds of solidarities lead to very difficult circumstances for the activists involved. So several people are arrested and so on. But what we see are women reaching out to activists in different parts of the world at different moments, connecting their struggles, trying to come up with strategies and sometimes making mistakes, sometimes making mistakes in the process of doing so, but still seeking out those collaborations because of their larger vision and their determination to not just obtain, but I think, uphold and sustain human rights and make it real for themselves. I think that's the part of the book that I tried to emphasize that it's how these women hold onto the concept and make it their own.

[C]

NASHLEY I'm interested in how these women became aware of some of these global issues because many of them wouldn't necessarily have had the time and resources to travel that widely. So where were they getting their information from?

[B]

So here is where I think it's so important to emphasize the black press. It's something that has been so remarkable for me as a researcher, and this is something that I first, I think, fully discovered when I was writing my first book. I was at the time, struggling to find sources, struggling to find archival material that would help explain how black women in the United States engage in international politics. And I was particularly interested in working poor women. That was another difficulty. In terms of the archive, we understand the limitations when it comes to what's preserved, whose voices appear in certain collections, etc. And one of the things that I figured out very quickly was that I had to pay close attention to the black press. Now, in talking about the black press, it's not solely the featured articles, but it's also the letters that people are writing to the editors, paying close attention to who's writing, where they're located, what are they saying, exactly, Even paying attention to features that are essentially reprints. And so that's another powerful aspect of the black press in the 20th century in particular. So many newspapers would run pieces that appeared elsewhere, and I couldn't necessarily find the original, but I knew, okay, this particular article indicated that it was reprinted and it appears now in the Negro Worlds newspaper. So what happens is that the. The newspaper becomes such a powerful source, not just for me, the researcher, but thinking about it within the historical context and the political moment, it becomes such a powerful source for these women. These women are reading. They're reading about what's taking place. In fact, I mentioned the Negro World. The Negro World featured several articles specifically on Japan, grappling with the meaning of Japan. What's the significance of Japan for a black person? A question that editors were asking and people were grappling with the question. So there are articles in which people are saying, well, black people need to collaborate with Japan because our struggles are similar in this particular way. And others are saying, absolutely not. Let's not lose sight of the imperialist aspects of this nation, and let's be careful about how we collaborate. So the newspaper itself provided this forum for debate and dialogue. And so women are. They're reading about these. These things. They're. And I think in kind, they're discussing these topics among themselves. They're doing so in various spaces, certainly within the context of the black church, as just one example, within social groups, community groups, there are all of these moments where they come together and they're grappling with these ideas, and then they formulate their own thoughts. And as you said, those who could travel, traveled and shared their experiences. I've collected so many articles, for example, of women who traveled in the 30s, in the 40s, and then would sit down and write an article about their experience, and then it would appear in a black newspaper. So people would have this window into what it was like for this particular black woman to get on a ship and to go to Europe in this particular moment. So the newspaper is key.

[C]

Did any of these women find themselves in trouble with the authorities for any of their political beliefs or political writings?

[B]

Yes, Many of the women who I discuss in the book encountered challenges because of their writings. Even as they're arguing for expanded rights and they're making a case that black people should be treated with dignity and respect, they're also having to face the reality that some of the ideas that they're sharing are not widely accepted. And in the context in which they're expressing these ideas, but also because of the kinds of transnational solidarities, because of the. The transnational political networks that are being formed, they immediately become targets. And so we see that certainly in the context of activists who are tied to the communist left, having difficulty traveling, being detained, questioned, surveilled. That's certainly happening. And then even within communities. One of the interesting aspects of the book, too, that I grapple with is also the experiences of some black women within black communities. So we see this in the context of one of the women who I discussed by the name of Pearl Sherrod, and she's in Detroit. She's very interested in Afro Asian solidarity. She's another example of a woman who, in the 1930s, seeking out collaborations with Japanese activists and having to face resistance within the black community of other people, simply saying, no, we don't want to go down that road. You know, that's not the kind of collaboration we want to form in this moment. And her having to deal with, in so many ways, feeling ostracized from her own community because her politics just doesn't seem to align so neatly with other People who have other ideas for the kinds of political solidarities that they want to invest in. So women face various kinds of resistance, and sometimes it's coming directly from the federal government, sometimes it's happening at the local level, and sometimes it's happening within their communities among people who look like them but are saying to them, no, that's not the vision that we have.

[C]

We talked earlier about some of these women's roles in the civil rights movement after the 1960s and the civil rights legislation. Did that change the kinds of things that some of these black women were campaigning for?

[B]

To some extent, yes. Because I think what's clear is by the time we get to the 1970s, there are several key developments in terms of the law in the United States that expand opportunities for women as they do for black men. Certainly the Voting Rights act, certainly the Civil Rights act, but I think the Voting Rights act in particular of 1965 becomes such a pivotal development. It does not change things overnight, but it certainly brings about significant changes. And by the time we get to the 70s, women are not at that time focused on talking about voting rights. And let's be clear, they're still having to grapple with it because even as on paper, everyone should have access to the ballot. They recognize that there's still resistance. They recognize that they have to deal with voter suppression in various ways. So it's not that it's completely erased from the picture, but now the focus has shifted to other things. So we see in the book a focus on housing, you know, dealing with the housing crisis, dealing with the reality that so many people are having difficulty just finding a place to live, finding quality housing, depending on where they're living in the United States. One of the other things that I grapple with in the book is the way that many of these women shift their focus on police violence and state sanctioned violence broadly in the 1970s, in the 1980s, and in the 1990s. And one of the chapters of the book, I focus on New York City and I talk about a group of women who begin to focus specifically on police violence as part of their argument for human rights. And one of the things that they ultimately say is this is a violation of human rights. It's not just that it's wrong. We could talk about the ethics, we could talk about the pain right caused to families. We could talk about so many things. But they're saying we need to acknowledge and we need to let the world know what's happening in our communities, and we need to help them see that this right here is a human rights abuse. It simply is. And if people can understand that, then they can understand why we're trying to bring about changes when it comes to the relationship between black communities and police. So I think the focus shifts as we move across time, but also in terms of where people are located, which is partly why I tried to highlight various cities as well as tell the stories that are happening in urban centers versus rural spaces and so on, because I think it helps us see just the complexity and diversity of human rights advocacy in the US Context.

[C]

And when you look at black women campaigners today, do you see them following the same trail that was blazed by some of the women you write about in your book?

[B]

Absolutely. And, in fact, it's one of the reasons why I ended up writing the book in the first place. I was thinking a lot about the context of the 2020 protests, which took place in the US but also across the globe following the tragic police killing of George Floyd and so many others. And what I noticed at the time was just the way that some of the black women who I would see on television, who I would hear talking about what was happening in the moment, I could hear the echoes of some of the things that I had been reading about from the 20s, from the 30s, from the 40s, and I started to draw those connections. And so it's so, I think, fascinating the way that activists of today draw upon this longer tradition and at times are not even aware that they're doing so, but they are doing so, which is remarkable in so many ways. And it's remarkable, too, because I think about someone like Fannie Lou Hamer, who is a civil rights activist, who I've written about in the context of the 1960s, who had so many goals, so many things that she wanted to do, she was able to accomplish a lot, but. But did not accomplish everything that she desired. And I see her work continuing today. And I think that is so inspiring. And. And I think it's also helps us think through just the power of ideas. This is one of the reasons why I'm so drawn to. To, you know, to intellectual history as a field. I'm. I'm drawn to this idea that even when political and social movements die, even when individuals pass away, ideas continue to circulate. People are inspired by ideas, and there's a way in which they're able to pick up the mantle and continue the work that someone started decades before. It gives you a sense of hope, I think. And you see the way that people are drawing on the work of so many of these women in the contemporary context.

[C]

Now, we've talked about quite a few of the women that you cover in your book, but I wondered if there were one or two others that you'd like to introduce to our listeners.

[B]

Well, one of the women who I talk about is Kadi Diallo. And I mention her because one of the things that I did in the book, I certainly rely heavily on archival material. I certainly utilized historical newspapers, census records, etc, but I made the decision to include oral histories. And I was absolutely thrilled that Kadi Diallo allowed me to talk to her about her story. And for those who are not as familiar, this is the mother of Amadou Diallo. Amadou Diallo was tragically gunned down by New York City police officers in 1999. And this is such an important part of this history. It's even one that I think just has so much meaning for me as someone who grew up in Brooklyn for much of my life, I knew, even as a younger child, the story of Amadou Diallo and felt the pain of the community, I think, for many years later. And so now to be able to write about his mother was quite meaningful. But one of the things that. That I did was really just ask her about her life, but also how her life changed following the tragic killing of her son. And one of the things that happens is that she essentially goes from not being too interested in politics to someone who then plays a key role in the struggle for human rights, because she's transformed by the experience. And the pain and the grief of the experience propels her to fight, not just to keep his memory alive, not only to fight for justice for him, but to fight for justice, for rights and protections for all people. And so she tells her story, and I emphasize that in the book, and I just find it such a painful story, certainly, but a remarkable one when you see the way that she pulls herself together, connects with activists in New York, really comes from guinea, moves to New York, and decides that she's just going to give herself completely to this struggle, to this movement. And I think it's the kind of story that I think will resonate with people. And I was absolutely thrilled to be able to talk about it in the book. And one of the things that becomes quite, quite clear when you. When you look at her story is just the fact that this is essentially an ordinary individual who felt compelled to do something and did it, and to this day continues to work transnationally to support, you know, she's. She's helping to support students all across the globe. Just a very inspirational figure. And it all starts with this very painful moment. So she's someone who I think we haven't spent too much time with in terms of the scholarship, but need to. And so many others like her whose names we don't necessarily highlight in the history, but who I think help us understand this concept that I mentioned at the beginning about the making of human rights from the ground up. That was Kesha N. Blaine speaking to Rob Attar. Kesha is professor of Africana Studies and History at Brown University, and her book, Without Fear, Black Women and the Making of Human Rights is out now, published by Norton. She was also a 2024 winner of the Dan David Prize, which recognizes outstanding historical scholarship.

[A]

Mike and Alyssa are always trying to outdo each other. When Alyssa got a small water bottle, Mike showed up with a 4 liter jug. When Mike started gardening, Alyssa started beekeeping. Oh, come on. They called a truce for their holiday and used Expedia trip planner to collaborate on all the details of the trip. Once there, Mike still did more laps around the pool. Whatever. You were made to outdo your holidays. We were made to help organize the competition. Expedia made to travel.

[B]

What do you think makes the perfect snack?

[A]

Hmm, it's gotta be when I'm really craving it and it's convenient.

[B]

Could you be more specific when it's cravenient?

[A]

Okay, like a freshly baked cookie made with real butter, available right down the.

[B]

Street at am, pm.

[A]

Or a savory breakfast sandwich I can.

[B]

Grab in just a second at a.m. pM. I'm seeing a pattern here.

[A]

Well, yeah, we're talking about what I.

[B]

Crave, which is anything from am, pm.

[A]

What more could you want? Stop by ampm, where the snacks and drinks are perfectly craveable and convenient. That's cravenience ampm. Too much good stuff.

[C]

Hello, I'm Greg Jenner, host of youf're Dead to Me, the comedy podcast from the BBC that takes history seriously.

[B]

Each week I'm joined by a comedian.

[C]

And an expert historian to learn and laugh about the past. In our all new season, we cover unique areas of history that your school.

[B]

Lessons may have missed.

[A]

From getting ready in the Renaissance era.

[C]

To the Kellogg brothers.

[A]

Listen to youo're Dead to Me Now.

[B]

Wherever you get your podcast.