History Extra Podcast: "Carolingians in Crisis – The Medieval Civil War That Shaped Europe"
Hosted by Daniel Kramer Arden | Released on January 29, 2025
Introduction
In this episode of the History Extra Podcast, produced by the team behind BBC History Magazine, host Daniel Kramer Arden engages in an insightful conversation with historians Matthew Gabriel and David M. Perry, authors of the acclaimed book Oath Breakers. The discussion delves deep into the tumultuous period of the Carolingian Empire, focusing on the civil war that erupted among Charlemagne's grandsons and its profound impact on shaping medieval Europe.
The Battle of Fontenoy: A Pivotal Moment
Matthew Gabriel and David M. Perry explore the circumstances leading up to the Battle of Fontenoy, fought on June 25, 841 AD. This confrontation, occurring near the modest village of Fontenoy in modern-day France, was not just another medieval skirmish but a decisive clash that would ultimately fracture the once-mighty Carolingian Empire.
Matthew Gabriel (01:34): "The Battle of Fontenoy was horrifying for everybody involved. It shook the empire to its core and had reverberations that would last for generations."
David M. Perry elaborates on the scale of the battle, suggesting that while medieval battles often involved thousands rather than tens of thousands, Fontenoy was extraordinary in its magnitude and the diversity of forces engaged from across the vast empire.
Contextualizing the Carolingian Empire
To understand the gravity of Fontenoy, David M. Perry provides a historical backdrop of the Carolingian Empire's rise and rapid decline. From its zenith under Charlemagne, spanning Western to Central Europe, the empire began to unravel within two generations due to internal strife and contested succession.
David M. Perry (05:19): "The Franks constructed a myth of unity, but the reality was built on a foundation of lies about their place in the world and the empire's organization."
Matthew Gabriel adds that Charlemagne's attempt to establish a cohesive empire was undermined by numerous coups and internal conflicts, setting the stage for the eventual civil war among his heirs.
Succession Struggles After Charlemagne
Following Charlemagne's death in 814 AD, his son Louis the Pious ascended to the throne. His reign was marred by efforts to consolidate power and manage the loyalty of powerful nobles, often through both persuasion and coercion. The lack of a clear succession plan and mounting tensions among Louis's sons—Lothar, Louis the German, and Charles the Bald—led to increasing instability.
Matthew Gabriel (06:44): "Louis the Pious tried to build loyalty, but his methods, including violence and torture, created deep-seated tensions that undermined his reign."
David M. Perry counters the common perception that Louis was solely responsible for the empire's instability, highlighting that even Charlemagne faced significant governance challenges and multiple coup attempts.
David M. Perry (09:13): "Charlemagne suffered several coup attempts, showing that the need to balance power among nobles was a persistent issue."
Outbreak of Civil War
The death of Louis the Pious in 840 AD plunged the empire into chaos as his sons vied for control. The ensuing civil war was less about the elimination of one another and more about defining the structure and unity of the empire.
Matthew Gabriel (09:31): "They're arguing about what it means to be an Emperor and what power entails within the empire."
The grandsons—Lothar hoping to maintain a unified empire, and Charles the Bald along with Louis the German advocating for more autonomous kingdoms—mobilized their forces, culminating in the Battle of Fontenoy.
The Battle Unfolded
David M. Perry recounts the strategic deployment and the ferocity of the battle, noting how Lothar's initial advantage was overturned by the resilient and battle-hardened forces of Charles and Louis.
David M. Perry (14:18): "Louis the German brought vengeance to the battlefield, which was pivotal in turning the tide against Lothar."
Despite Lothar's formidable army, the combined might and determination of his brothers led to a decisive victory for Charles and Louis, effectively diminishing Lothar's influence and setting the stage for the empire's fragmentation.
Aftermath and the Treaty of Verdun
The immediate aftermath of Fontenoy saw Lothar fleeing with the imperial treasury, only to later engage in further conflicts. The protracted struggle culminated in the Treaty of Verdun in 843 AD, which formally divided the Carolingian Empire into three separate kingdoms.
Matthew Gabriel (21:12): "We don't have a concrete document like the Treaty of Versailles. The division was more a result of subsequent actions rather than a clear-cut agreement."
David M. Perry emphasizes that the Treaty of Verdun's divisions were less about precise territorial agreements and more about the shifting alliances and power dynamics that emerged post-battle.
The Role of the Church and the Pope
The Church, particularly bishops and the Pope, played a nuanced role during the civil war. While the Pope maintained moral authority, his direct influence was limited compared to other high clerics who were deeply intertwined with the empire's political fabric.
Matthew Gabriel (25:59): "The Pope has superior moral claims but can't unilaterally dictate the empire's affairs."
The bishops' involvement in legitimizing the outcomes of battles, such as holding a mass and council post-Fontenoy to interpret the battle's divine significance, underscored the Church's role in shaping public perception and political legitimacy.
Legacy and the Making of Medieval Europe
In the book's coda, Matthew Gabriel and David M. Perry reflect on the long-term consequences of the civil war. While the immediate division of the empire did not directly create modern nation-states like France and Germany, the fragmentation laid the groundwork for Europe's evolving political landscape.
David M. Perry (34:08): "19th-century nationalistic interpretations of Fontenoy are modern constructs that do not align with the medieval reality."
Matthew Gabriel critiques the later nationalistic narratives that retroactively attributed the battle to the formation of distinct French and German identities, arguing that such interpretations are anachronistic and overlook the complex, multilingual nature of the Carolingian Empire.
Matthew Gabriel (34:08): "The Treaty of Verdun map with bright lines is a simplification. The reality was much messier."
Relevance to the Present Day
The historians draw parallels between the instability of the Carolingian Empire and contemporary societal tensions, suggesting that the rapid disintegration of a seemingly stable empire serves as a cautionary tale about political fragility and the undercurrents of discontent that can disrupt even the most formidable states.
Matthew Gabriel (36:35): "Cracks in a seemingly stable society can lead to rapid unraveling, much like what happened in the Carolingian Empire."
David M. Perry underscores the importance of understanding these historical dynamics to appreciate the intricate roots of modern European states and their identities.
David M. Perry (36:35): "The way the empire broke down set the stage for the formation of modern Europe."
Conclusion
The episode provides a comprehensive exploration of a critical juncture in European history, illustrating how familial rivalries and political maneuvering among the Carolingians led to the empire's demise and the subsequent shaping of medieval Europe. Gabriel and Perry's insights challenge conventional narratives, urging listeners to reconsider the simplistic attribution of modern national identities to medieval events.
For those eager to delve deeper into the Carolingian era and its intricate politics, Oath Breakers by Matthew Gabriel and David M. Perry is a must-read, offering a nuanced perspective on one of history's most fascinating power struggles.
Note: This summary excludes advertisements and non-content segments from the original podcast transcript to focus solely on the substantive discussions and analyses presented by the historians.