History Extra Podcast: International Security & Rough Sleeping – History Behind the Headlines
Release Date: June 23, 2025
Host: Matt Alton
Panelists: Hannah Skoda (Medieval History, St John’s College, Oxford) and Rana Mitter (Chair in US Asia Relations, Harvard Kennedy School)

Introduction

In this episode of the History Extra Podcast, host Matt Alton delves into the intricate ties between historical events and contemporary headlines, specifically focusing on international security and the issue of rough sleeping in the UK. Joined by experts Hannah Skoda and Rana Mitter, the discussion navigates through centuries of policies, societal attitudes, and global relations to shed light on today's complex challenges.

1. The Evolution of International Security and Collective Security

Rana Mitter opens the conversation by examining how nations have historically sought to ensure their security amidst a tumultuous and conflict-ridden world. He traces the concept of collective security from the early 19th century European "Concert of Nations" to the formation and challenges of the League of Nations and the United Nations.

Rana Mitter (01:33): "The idea that somehow there should be some sort of international organization that would create that kind of collective security... the United Nations, of course, founded in 1945, still remains probably the last resort for many people in terms of how those ideas of collective security are actually going to be exercised."

Rana highlights the pivotal role of Henry Kissinger, who was influenced by Metternich's statecraft, in shaping modern collective security mechanisms. Despite these efforts, he underscores the persistent failures, such as the outbreak of the World Wars, which question the efficacy of collective security arrangements.

2. Medieval Foundations of Security and Governance

Hannah Skoda contributes by drawing parallels between modern and medieval attempts to secure peace and order. She references Dante Alighieri's Monarchia, where Dante advocates for a universal monarchy to ensure earthly happiness and reduce conflict.

Hannah Skoda (07:50): "Dante's first point in this is to say earthly power should not be subject to the spiritual power of the papacy... what we therefore need is universal monarchy. We need a single emperor... who will exercise ultimate secular control... and ensure the maximum earthly happiness."

Hannah also discusses the Pax Mongolica, illustrating how the Mongol Empire, despite its notorious violence, facilitated extensive trade routes that inadvertently promoted economic interdependence among regions, hinting at early notions of collective security through economic means.

3. Historical Parallels to the UK's Decriminalization of Rough Sleeping

As current headlines reveal the UK government's plans to decriminalize rough sleeping, Hannah and Rana explore historical precedents that inform this modern shift. Hannah outlines the development of Vagrancy Acts from the 14th century through the 19th century, emphasizing the longstanding societal divisions between the "deserving" and "undeserving" poor.

Hannah Skoda (20:52): "These acts persecuted those in homeless situations, something that was rising dramatically after the Napoleonic wars and the Industrial Revolution... it's about distinguishing between those who deserve charity and care and those who don't."

Rana draws a comparison with early 20th-century China, referencing Janet Chen's Guilty of Indigence, which discusses similar legislation aimed at regulating the urban poor to foster a modern, efficient nation-state.

Rana Mitter (27:58): "In early 20th century China, urban poor were subjected to institutional changes... echoing Victorian Britain's workhouses and the mentality behind the Vagrancy Acts."

4. The Intersection of Economics and Security

The panelists delve into the concept of economic security as a pillar of collective peace. Rana references Montesquieu's Enlightenment-era ideas that promoting trade and economic interdependence could foster peace among nations.

Rana Mitter (16:13): "The promotion of trade and commerce is something likely to bring collective peace... concepts embodied in institutions like the World Trade Organization."

However, both Hannah and Rana acknowledge the double-edged sword of economic interdependence, where over-reliance on trade can also lead to new forms of conflict.

5. Reflections on Urban Regulation and Society's Treatment of the Poor

Hannah examines medieval European cities, highlighting how urban regulation was intertwined with societal attitudes towards the poor. She references medieval manuscripts, such as the Macclesfield Psalter, which juxtapose images of beggars with symbols of societal order and Christian charity.

Hannah Skoda (33:44): "Having the poor around provides an opportunity for people to show Christian charity... it's also a kind of imitation of Christ."

She notes a shift from the vibrant, charity-oriented portrayal of the poor in earlier centuries to more regulated and controlled urban environments in later medieval times, prefiguring modern legislative approaches to homelessness.

6. Escalation and De-escalation in International Relations

Rana brings in the iconic example of the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis to illustrate the delicate balance between escalation and de-escalation in maintaining international security. He reflects on how diplomatic dialogue and unspoken compromises prevented nuclear confrontation.

Rana Mitter (16:40): "The Cuban missile crisis... was eventually resolved by both sides talking tough to each other, but also working out where they could stand down, where they could de-escalate."

Rana suggests that the lessons from such historical moments are crucial as the global environment becomes increasingly fragile and turbulent.

Conclusion

The episode adeptly weaves together historical analysis and contemporary issues, offering listeners a nuanced understanding of international security and societal approaches to homelessness. By drawing on centuries-old policies, debates, and philosophies, Hannah Skoda and Rana Mitter illuminate the complexities that continue to shape our world today. As the UK moves towards decriminalizing rough sleeping, these historical insights provide valuable context for understanding and addressing the underlying societal challenges.

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