Rachel Dinning (5:00)

So into this bustling world and this changing political climate comes James Gilray. So for anyone who's listening to this podcast and hasn't actually heard of him, give us a little overview. Can you describe who he was and why he became famous?

Alice Loxton (5:15)

So he really comes into his own in the 1790s, but he's actually born in 1756, and he grew up in Chelsea in London, and his father, who had been a soldier, he ended up at the Chelsea Pensioners at the Chelsea Hospital. And that's the reason that they grew up in Chelsea. And his father was a Moravian, which was a particularly strict form of Christianity. And you often wonder whether his images that were so scurrilous and kind of mocking were a reaction to that. Perhaps. But he grew up and he was obviously a very good artist from a young age. There's a wonderful image of a bird that he did, the first bird I did paint and draw. So it's a pretty amazing childhood sketch. But what really leaps him ahead is he joins the Royal Academy schools. And the Royal Academy was founded in 1768. The major person who founded it was Reynold the artist, the painter, who would make these amazing grand portraits. And he was the first president. And when Gillray was around, Reynolds was really setting the tone for what art should be and the kind of visuals of art. And Reynolds was a. Was a wonderful person in his own right and very talented and skilled. And the Royal Academy was a brilliant thing. And it taught Gillray really to be a high quality draughtsman and artist, to really understand the world of the ancient artists, the world of ancient sculpture, to understand the Renaissance. All of these theories of art which were considered, you know, art appropriate for high society. Now, I think James Gillray really did try to become a great artist, to become a Reynolds, and this could be a lucrative thing. It was like being a big pop star and there are business cards that he has from his early life where he's a painter, but like many pop stars, it's pretty hard to get in. And he was probably definitely good enough, but he couldn't make the break. And so maybe like lots of people who could have been great musicians or pop stars, instead of doing that, they do something else in the music world. The same happened with Gillray and luckily for us that happened, because what he then did, I should think to probably find a bit of work on the side is he started creating satirical prints and all sorts of prints for the print shops of London, which was a kind of growing trade at this time. Now, the prints at this time were not really respected as a proper form of art. And so what this meant was that Gillray's immense skill, curated by the Royal Academy, was applied to what was perceived to be low art. And this created an entirely new genre of art. So these beautifully depicted, brilliantly created satirical prints would be on display in the print shop windows in London. And these were brilliantly acerbic, very witty. They had a lot of visual jokes as well as written jokes. And what this meant is that ordinary people could understand them. You didn't even need to be able to have to read to understand the jokes. And they would be displayed in the print shop windows. And it was described as veritable madness when a new print went up. Okay, so this is like a Beatle mania of the day. And what did these prints depict? Well, they depicted the people in the public eye. So Pitt the Younger or Charles James Fox or the Duchess of Devonshire or Napoleon, but also ordinary people too. So nobody was safe from the satirical gaze of Gilray and his fellow satirists. There was also Thomas Rowlandson, Isaac Cruikshank. And so this was such a powerful force in society that it shaped careers, it brought down great careers. It's like if there was a real barrage of tabloid press that caused someone to have to resign, it was that kind of thing. And these prints could be so, so powerful. And that's why they were so electrifying to people to see. And they were electrifying, I think, because they were brilliantly clever, you know, they were brilliantly funny. And funny is effective.

Rachel Dinning (9:15)

And it's interesting because if he'd pursued his original career aims, as you said, he went to the Royal Academy, he may initially have intended to be a very serious, legitimate artist and he may not have conn with people in the same way if that dream had fulfilled itself.

Alice Loxton (9:30)

Absolutely not. And this is what kind of interested me about these artists, because when we think about the history of British art, we tend to name people like Hogarth, Reynolds, Turner, and these are all wonderful painters and, you know, in their own right. But it is amazing to me that they would not often mention Gillray, often because prints are not really seen as. They're not taken as seriously in some ways, even today as paintings. And that's because there are a lot of prints made. You know, you have a print run, there's not an exact painting. The one painting, you know, like the Mona Lisa or the Turner or the Fighting Temeraire, for example, you know, these. And you can see the hand of the artist. So you kind of have that connection with the artist. But the irony is that great paintings by Reynolds, say, are only seen by a few people. Okay, they were in the Royal Academy summer exhibition, but most of them were only seen by the wealthy. They were only seen behind closed doors. You know, they weren't in the National Galleries or the Royal Academies of the world, which are Public spaces, they were private. And so when we think about the millions of views that Gillray got with his work that was displayed in public in the print shop windows, he was far more influential in terms of people perceiving art. And this is a time when people were like, you know, a little bit later, Jane Austen was writing and Byron was around. And I think that these people, if you think about the satirical prints as Georgian memes, these are essentially what they are. These will provide the jokes and the wit and the conversation that would pepper the conversations of people like Byron and Austen. And Austen is someone that we see as one of our great comedic writers. So I think the impact is massive. And you do see it through time. I mean, the creators of Spitting Image in more recent years say that they owed Gillray a royalty payment. They owed so much to him. And so many cartoonists today use the visuals of Gillray all the time. So the plum pudding in danger, which is the famous one that has been on the COVID of so many magazines but replaced with new figures, like all the time. When you know the Prince of Gillray, you see these images pop up all the time. And in the cartoon world, he's the real hero. And if you're ever someone who looks at cartoons in the newspapers, you've probably seen a Gillray.

Commercial Narrator (11:52)

Quince is the place to go to build a timeless wardrobe that's made to last. They're really all about having elevated essentials that feel effortless. And so each piece is designed for layering and mixing. They're the kinds of styles that you'll wear again and again, season over season. And they've got wardrobe staples with quality that's made to last, like 100% organic cotton sweaters, premium denim that's made with stretch for all day comfortable. They have luxe cotton cashmere blends that are perfect for changing seasons. I've been wearing my Mongolian cashmere turtleneck sweater non stop. It's so soft, so comfy and so warm, but also helps me look put together. So it's really the perfect wardrobe staple. And Quinn's works with safe ethical factories, cutting out the middlemen. So you're not paying for brand markup, you're just paying for high quality clothing. Everything is built to hold up season after season. The stitching, the fit, the fabrics. They're pieces that you'll want to reach for over and over. And you can, because they're made to last. So if you're ready to refresh your wardrobe with Quince, go to quince.comhistoryextra for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-E.comhistoryextra to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.comhistoryextra.

Commercial Narrator (13:18)

You didn't start a business just to keep the lights on. You're here to sell more today than yesterday. You're here to win. Lucky for you, Shopify built the best converting checkout on the planet. Like the just one tapping ridiculously fast acting sky high sales stacking champion at checkouts. That's the good stuff right there. So if your business is in it to win it, win with Shopify. Start your free trial today@shopify.com win kids.

Commercial Narrator (13:50)

They grow up so fast. One day they're taking their first steps and the next they don't fit into the tiny sneakers they took them in. You blink your eyes and their princess dress is two sizes too small. And their dinosaur backpack isn't cool anymore. But don't cry because they're growing up. Smile because you can profit off of it for real. There are a bunch of parents on Depop looking for the stuff your kid just grew out of. Download depop to start selling.

Rachel Dinning (14:19)

Now I need to ask you about a remarkable woman, Hannah Humphrey, who really helped catapult Gillray into fame. So tell our listeners who Hannah Humphrey was.

Alice Loxton (14:30)

Yes, well, Hannah Humphrey is the real hero of this story, James Gillray. If you think about pop stars today, take someone like Harry Styles in one direction, like they are the face and they are the stars and everyone loves them. But behind the scenes there is somebody who has made them happen. Okay, so there is the kind of Simon Cowell of the world who does the business deals, who's pulling the strings, who's actually managing them and having to deal with perhaps all of their diva behavior. This was certainly the case, I think, with the artists in Piccadilly. And Gillray was brilliant, as was Thomas Rowlandson. They were often drunk, they were often causing all sorts of problems and I imagine that they were not necessarily good at handing things in on time. But the person holding it all together was Hannah Humphrey. And we don't often think about women in the Georgian period as being amazing businesswomen, but she really was and she left a lot of money when she died. You know, this was a successful enterprise. She had print shops in London, in Piccadilly, in St. James's so quite smart areas of the city and sometimes opposite the palace. Its and this was a much bigger job than just being someone selling, selling a few prints, because she had to be reactive to the news that was going on. You know, these prints would be produced within a day. We know exactly when they were made because they're dated in the right hand corner. So especially in moments, say the French Revolution, you know, we know what was reported in London, we know how the news was coming across and then we can see exactly the moment, the exact day that the prints were coming out. So we know kind of how people are reacting to certain events. So Hannah Humphrey was managing that. The prints are pretty risky at times, satirising the royal family, satirizing those in power that could send you to prison, you know, if you overstep the mark. So she's taking risks here. The other thing is that often people would come into the print shop and buy the prints and these might have been the people who were satirised themselves. So you risk upsetting almost everybody, not just the royal family, but powerful members of the aristocracy, not really people you want to have as your enemy. But I think they became such a common part of life that people sort of got used to it. And there are accounts of people who are satirized buying copies of their own satires. There's even accounts of people desperately trying to get in a satire, you know, because it's kind of a mark of being important. It's funny to read about them doing all that. But no, Hannah Humphrey was impressive and she kept Gilray on the straight and narrow thing. You have to be pretty bright, I think, to read the political room over those years, which were treacherous times. You know, this was when the government was very nervous. Will the French Revolution. Will these revolutionary activities spread across the Channel and come to London? And, you know, if that was the case, the result would be horrific, widespread violence. So it wasn't small, the kind of jokes that they were making here, they potentially had enormous repercussions.

Rachel Dinning (17:25)

On that note, was there ever any backlash or censorship or anything like that because of the prints that Humphrey and Gillray were putting out together?

Alice Loxton (17:34)

Together, there are moments where they draw quite close to the line and other print makers with perhaps more radical ideas are sent to prison? Unfortunately, it doesn't really have the impact because you could still make prints from prison or you could still order it to happen. And actually it became a bit of a hub of radical printing, so sort of brought them all together. But it's interesting to consider Gilray's allegiance in this period because, of course, politicians were very aware of how much they might sway public Opinion, because not only were they on display in the print shop windows, they would be reproduced and spread across the country. And there are moments where, for example, the printmakers are making images for one side, sympathetic for one side, but three days later they're making it for the opposite. So they don't really tend to have much allegiance. But we know that certainly Gillray, during the period of Napoleon's great threat, was supported by the government. He was in some ways making propaganda on behalf of the government to demonstrate that he was, you know, the great threat that he really was.

Rachel Dinning (18:41)

Well, let's hone in on that example specifically. Cause we should definitely talk about some of the prints that he produced. And his portrayal of Napoleon is so famous. How did Gillray show Napoleon to the world?

Alice Loxton (18:55)

Yes, well, this is perhaps Gillray's greatest legacy, if you're going to remember anything. This is the key bit, is that his way of depicting people at the time was so effective that it has forever changed the public perception and understanding of Napoleon. So Napoleon, one of the most incredible historic figures of all time, so influential. His achievements were terrible and monumental and incredibly dramatic. You know, crowning himself in Notre Dame. And I'm sure History Extra listeners will know all about Napoleon, but he wasn't a formidable figure. And there are a lot of things that we could remember him by. Even the paintings that he commissioned, which are particularly grand and present him as this great kind of ancient hero. I'm thinking of Jacques Louis David's portrait of him, his equestrian portrait. And yet the first thing that people often think about Napoleon is none of these things. They would probably generally say that he was short. And where does that come from? Well, that comes from the satires of people like James Gillray and Thomas Rowlandson. Because at the height of the threat of Napoleon, in the height of the Napoleonic wars, where Napoleon was literally lining up troops, ready to invade, in these moments of real threat and real anxiety about Napoleon, they created all of these images which made fun of him, I suppose. And they create this character, Little Boney. And an important one is a print called Maniac Ravings or Little Boney in a strong fit. And what we're looking at here is a kind of toddler tantrum. So a small, small version of Napoleon, really tiny, much smaller than he really was. And he is shouting and there are these great flames coming from his head and he's pushed across the globe that stands next to him. He's pushed across the chairs. There are tables overturned, all kinds of newspapers and documents thrown across the floor. And his knees are up in the air. His. His hand is to his face and his other arm's outstretched and he's just having this massive fit. And it really is a toddler kind of depicted here. And the idea of this image is that he is, you know, he's been reading the British newspapers and out of his head is coming all these flames, which is his thoughts and his cries, which are things like newspapers, the newspapers, the British Invasion. Invasion. Invasion. Not even sentences fully strung together. So really not someone in control of his emotions. But this is the character that is created and solidified, and it is this character that now has created this idea in many people's minds. I'm sure not the well read History Extra podcast listeners, but for the general public, people think about him still through the lens of Gillray as this tiny figure. And the most famous image of Gillray's, and the most enduring is one called the Plum Pudding in Danger. This was created in 1805 and it depicts William Pitt the Younger and Napoleon. A tiny. A tiny Napoleon. He only just perched on his chair. And they are slicing up this plum pudding, which represents the globe. So it's depicting Britain slicing up the great Atlantic Ocean. That's reflecting naval supremacy. And then Napoleon slicing through Europe, and that's reflecting his incredible gains in Europe. And the note beneath it, which is a kind of Shakespeare misquote, is the great globe itself. And all which it inherit is too small to satisfy such insatiable appetites. Okay, so this is all about insatiable appetites. And because these men, these nations, have insatiable appetites, conquer and expand and all these kind of things. So for that reason, it's been used again and again with two politicians arguing over something. So that is the big Napoleon. They created this idea that Napoleon was a small man. In fact, he was of average height. He probably stood taller than Nelson, and he did surround himself by his imperial guard, who were all quite tall. And there was a confusion with the measurements when he died. But ultimately, in the public imagination, it is the. These prints which are so effective, so acerbic, that they have this kind of very powerful legacy, the power of satire.

Rachel Dinning (23:06)

And if you want to know more about Gilray's depictions of Napoleon, Alice has done a brilliant video episode on this for the History Extra Academy. And if you download the History Extra app, they're available there. So I encourage you to go and watch the full episode because we go into these images in much, much more detail. Find that in the description. Alice, we've talked about Napoleon. James Gillray obviously took down many more figures. What's your favourite work by him?

Alice Loxton (23:35)

Well, I think an image that really captures his brilliance is an image which is a portrait. It depicts a woman called Elizabeth Billington. Now, Elizabeth Billington was one of the great opera singers of the day. She was a real celebrity and people went completely crazy to see her sing. And this was a woman who would fill the opera and would fill a room with her powerful voice. Now, there are depictions of her by the likes of Reynolds and it's very of the time. We see her in quite a mellow kind of pose. She's posing as if she's a goddess. There are Cupid figures surrounding her and she's sort of floating up into the heavens. But she's not singing, of course. No, she's a kind of statue, silent and still. This kind of elegant, graceful pose, but very passive, is how many women were probably depicted at the time. And when you compare that to what Gillray created, it suddenly makes you realize how much he would bring to life. Because the Gillray version of Elizabeth Billington shows her full of life. You know, this is a woman, she's not kind of passive and trying at this elegant pose. She is there performing and singing her heart out, singing her loudest. And she's quite a large woman and he makes no mistake about that. But she's got her hand, her right hand is on her chest, her other arm is stretched out, her head is resting back because of the amazing endeavour that is going on, which is her singing. And her mouth is wide open, her cheeks are rosy pink. You can even see the notes floating up into the air. There are little squiggles that come out of her mouth. And she's in this fabulous outfit. She's got these enormous feathers in this wonderful flowing dress. And for me, this is a woman at the top of her craft. She is a professional and she is showing herself in all her glory, doing that amazing thing. So I think it really captures the life that Gillray can inject into our understanding of the Georgian period. I think another thing that's really, really important to remember with Gillray is that it's really surreal. Lots of images. So we're talking Dali esque surreal. You know, a Darley floppy clock would not look amiss in a Gillray print. There's a print called a toadstool upon a dunghill. And it depicts the crown, which is a dunghill. And out of that crown is this toadstool, this kind of mushroom. And within the mushroom is the face of William Pitt, the Younger, the Prime Minister. And it's a commentary on rotten corruption at the heart of power in that Pitt is a kind of spawn of the crown and he's not an independent actor in that political environment or another one where all of the opposition are depicted as bottles in a wine cellar. I mean, it's so surreal. It's so weird. It's weird to look at now. And I can't imagine what people would have thought of it at the time. I mean, it must have been so exciting. It's unsurprising when you realize these people were not exposed to TV and they were not exposed to the weirdness and wonders of advertising and Photoshop and all the things that we are familiar with today. So pretty amazing visually, I think.

Rachel Dinning (26:50)

Think after such a dazzling career, we need to talk about the end of his life. His later life took a bit of a dark turn. What happened to Gillray?

Alice Loxton (26:58)

So in 1805, at the Battle of Trafalgar, it's this great moment and they lose Nelson, who was a great figure. And in 1806, three of the key cast members that are the subjects of these caricatures, William Pitt the Younger, Charles James Fox, his Opposition and the Duchess of Devonshire, all die in the same year. And I think that's a kind of moment of suddenly huge figures off the scene. Later on, by the 1810s, we also in some ways lose King George III. He is so ill, not able to rule, that the regency begins from 1811. And so within quite a short period of time, these people who have kept alive this world of satire suddenly disappear. And at the same time, we also see Gillray starting to struggle. So we know that in the 1810s he begins to lose his eyesight and struggles with that. Of course, you know, this is the great bit of equipment in his craft. And we have various bits of evidence that indicate that he was struggling mentally and perhaps related to his eyesight. And he's living with Hannah Humphrey. There's a great speculation. Was this something romantic or was it not? They don't get married, but there is an account of them going to church, planning to married, and then he suddenly says, actually, things are fine, let's not change it. So, you know, that's something to consider. But he is definitely living with her. She is caring for him. He lives above the print shop window. And there is this terrible incident where Gillray, in a terrible bout of depression and a black moment in his life, he throws himself out the window. And Hannah to have to kind of go out, rush out to help him. And eventually, in 1815, 1 June 1815, he finally dies and you think, oh, there must have been a huge reaction to this. But there's pretty much nothing the reason, because the Battle of Waterloo was about to unfold several weeks later, so it kind of gets swallowed up in that news. And I always think it's a shame that Gilray didn't live to see that happening. So it's a sad end in many ways. It's a bit of a sad end for all of this group of brilliant artists. And what's so interesting is that in the years, you know, they were seen as scurrilous, they were seen as vulgar. And with the change in kind of moral sensibilities in the Victorian period, they then cancelled the Georgian satirists. They felt that they were totally inappropriate, they were totally at odds with the moral values of the time. Queen Victoria was destroying some of the prints in the Royal Collection. I mean, lots of them were pretty pornographic in many ways, but lots of them weren't. And they were written out from history and I think we've never really recovered. So my book Uproar, which was really to tell that story and to share the story of how amazing these artists were and unpick the work of the Victorians, who, though they wrote very strongly, I have to say, did use pretty flowery language and pretty colourful language to deride the Georgian Satirist, which is quite impressive and enjoyable reading. So. So I can give them that at least.

Rachel Dinning (30:10)

So, as you say, they were sort of written out of history a little bit in the Victorian times. But even if people listening at home don't actually recognise James Gillray's name, as you said earlier, they probably would recognise some of his images if they saw them. And even two centuries on, we can see his influence. So what are some examples that you've noticed of seeing Gillray in the modern day?

Alice Loxton (30:33)

Well, the key regular thing that happens is that cartoonists will use the image, so they'll use it as a kind of format and then they'll just insert new figures in, and then it becomes this kind of in joke within the cartoon community, but also within people who understand that history. So it elevates the subject. For example, when it was Covid and we were producing the COVID vaccine, there was an image of Boris Johnson sitting opposite. I can't remember who it was, but he had the plum pudding being replaced with the COVID vaccine and Boris Johnson had hidden it behind his back. So it's that kind of thing or the COVID Virus, I think, was the plum pudding at one point. And somebody had put all the world leaders around and they're all looking at it, not knowing what to do. And if you go to the cartoon museum or if you, you know, you talk to any famous cartoonist today, they will know exactly who Gire is, that he really is their hero. And actually one of the cartoonists, Dave Brown, he's also a sculptor and he actually made a portrait bust of Gilroy which is, which is really, really cool. But I think there's something wider here which is a sense of, you know, there's such a silliness in these images. And we often think of the Georgian age as a time probably forged by kind of Jane Austen adaptations of Sense and Sensibility, of Pride and Prejudice, all these kind of things. Things. But when you look at the Gilray prints, you see the actual reality of the chaos of the everyday. It's a very good insight into the ordinary lives and the reality and the fun of daily life and the chaos that I don't think you get to see. And so it does capture the humour at the time, which is very silly. And, and you know, people do talk about the British sense of humour and I think they must have really influenced that in so many ways that we could never tell. I mean, Jane Austen would have been aware of these prints and so what does that tell you about how they might have influenced her? Who knows? More to be investigated there, I'm sure.

Rachel Dinning (32:30)

Thank you, Alice. I think that's a great place to end. And if people listening at home want to know more about Gilray, and especially if you want to see some of the art that Alice has mentioned in this episode, I encourage you to go and watch Alice's six part video series on the world of the Georgians. There's a link in the description. It's over in the History Extra app. All that's left to me to say is thank you, Alice, for coming on. We hope to have you back soon.

Alice Loxton (32:57)

Thank you so much for having me. It's been great fun to talk about Gilroy as ever.

Rachel Dinning (33:01)

That was historian and author Alice Loxton speaking to Rachel Dinning. Alice is the author of Satire, Scandal and Printmakers in Georgian London, as well as the host of a new History Extra Academy series, the One World of the Georgians. You can find a link to that in the episode description.