Mutilated corpses and undead mothers-in-law: vampire epidemics through history

Episode Overview

Episode Title: Mutilated corpses and undead mothers-in-law: vampire epidemics through history
Podcast: History Extra
Host: Ellie Cawthorn (Immediate Media)
Guest: Professor John Blair, Professor of Medieval History and Archaeology at Queen’s College, University of London
Aired: November 21, 2025

This episode explores the fascinating and disturbing history of vampire beliefs across different cultures and centuries. Professor John Blair, drawing from his book Killing the Dead: Vampire Epidemics from Mesopotamia to the New World, discusses how fears of the animated dead have persisted, the social forces behind these phenomena, how such corpses were “neutralized,” and why certain figures—like young women or mothers-in-law—were especially likely to be seen as vampires. The conversation bridges archaeology, folklore, societal upheavals, and the evolution of beliefs from antiquity to modern times.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What is a Vampire Epidemic?

[01:30] Prof. Blair:

Clarifies his study isn’t about ghosts but about the belief in animated corpses causing harm after death.
“It's the belief that corpses are animated after death in one way or another. ...the crucial thing is people believe that the actual corpse has still got some sort of life or power inside it.”
Differentiates from haunting spirits—focus is on the physical body still exerting influence.

2. Origins and Distribution of Vampire Beliefs

[02:17] Prof. Blair:

Traces first evidence to written Mesopotamian sources in the Neo-Assyrian period (~7th century BC).
Suggests the idea may be far older, rooted also in prehistory and visible in archaeological evidence.
Discusses the "Vampire Belt": a broad region from northwestern Europe through eastern Europe to China and Southeast Asia.
- These societies often share shamanistic traditions and have intergenerational trauma as a trigger for vampire beliefs.
“There's a human propensity to think that corpses are a bit disconcerting in one way or another... it's only certain societies that think they're actually physically doing harm.” [03:36]

3. Vampires vs. Zombies: Definitions & Vocabulary

[05:20] Prof. Blair:

Etymology: ‘Vampire’ derives from Proto-Turkic words for ‘sucking demon’
Use of “zombie” is more specific to African and Haitian contexts, where the ‘dead’ are not truly dead but made to appear so by poison.
Uses “undead” as a catchall; emphasizes that the modern notion of a vampire is quite different from historical beliefs.

4. Dracula: Fact vs. Fiction

[07:10] Prof. Blair:

Points out that Count Dracula is highly uncharacteristic compared to historical vampires.
- Dracula: centuries old, aristocratic, cunning—qualities not seen in actual beliefs.
- Real 'vampires' tended to be ordinary, recently deceased people, often with unclear motivations.
“None of that applies to the dangerous corpses that people actually believed in...If you want to understand what people really believed in, then forget about Count Dracula.” [07:32]

5. Who Became a Vampire?

[08:53] Prof. Blair:

Not necessarily evil in life; more about improper death/burial, untimely deaths, or ritual errors.
Highlighted risk categories include:
- People who died young/violently.
- Bodies not properly watched between death and burial (notably in Greece: “if a cat jumps over the body, that's really, really bad”).
- Strikingly, young women (15–25), especially those unmarried or dead in childbirth, are often seen as dangerous dead in many societies.
“In many cultures, the dangerous dead have been largely female, and in particular women between the ages of about 15 and 25.” [08:53]

6. Vampire Motives and Evil

[13:07] Prof. Blair:

Mixed: some are simply restless, others are ‘nasty’ or ‘mood hoovers’—people who sapped energy in life.
Actions attributed vary by culture: causing illness, poison, or sleep paralysis (described as an entity sitting on the chest at night).

“Neighbors from hell...They’re tiresome, quarrelsome, dishonest, grumpy neighbors who just go on being a real nuisance after they die.” [13:07]

7. How to Neutralize a Vampire

[16:19] Prof. Blair:

Various methods described in texts and visible in archaeology:
- Turning the body over, binding limbs, breaking bones, beheading, separating jaws, staking, removing and burning organs (especially heart/lungs), or cremating the corpse entirely.
Tactics tailored to prevent ‘walking’ or further influence.

“You can turn the body over... tie the legs back... break the legs...cut off the head...drive a stake...” [16:19]
Noteworthy: Many such rituals have continuous traditions, e.g., similar procedures from medieval England and modern Romania.

8. Religious Attitudes Toward Corpse Mutilation

[20:04] Prof. Blair:

Christianity is officially opposed (soul has left the body), but relabels the corpse as demonically occupied to justify interventions.
Islam generally dislikes mutilation; in Turkish-influenced regions, it's discouraged.
Many polytheistic cultures sanction such practices.

9. Dangerous Mothers-in-law: Family Structures and Vampire Myths

[21:51] Prof. Blair:

Prevalent in multigenerational households; dominant matriarchs (often mothers-in-law) perceived as wanting to continue their authority after death.
- Intergenerational conflict, guilt—particularly in migrant contexts—can revive or sustain these beliefs.
"It's those powerful matriarchal women who are sometimes seen as a threat by younger generations..." [21:51]

10. Parallels Between Vampire Scares and Witch Hunts

[23:54] Prof. Blair:

Vampires and witches are both physical scapegoats, though one is dead, the other alive.
Epidemics/trauma seem to spark one kind or the other, but rarely both in the same place at the same time, suggesting they fill a social need for scapegoating.

11. Vampire Beliefs in America

[25:35] Prof. Blair:

German immigrants brought vampire lore (e.g., shroud-chewers) to Pennsylvania; adapted to tuberculosis epidemics in New England.
Bodies of TB victims might be exhumed, organs burned to ‘stop’ the plague within a family.
Last such practices persisted as late as 1949.

“The last known corpse killing in a western society outside the Aegean and outside the Balkans.” [27:56]

12. Interplay of Popular Belief and Print Culture

[28:32] Prof. Blair:

Folklore and books interact: sometimes actual practices, sometimes accusations inspired by printed stories.
Example: The belief in drinking blood from corpses as a vampiric cure began in a French pamphlet (borrowed from an unrelated African context), became cited as ‘fact’ in Poland, and peasants went on trial for it.

13. Sadness and Humanity in Vampire Stories

[30:55] Prof. Blair:

Stories of young women who die and return to seek lovers—often reflect unresolved grief and longing.
Example: The tale of Makates and Philinnion, echoed in both China and ancient Greece, influencing later vampire romance literature.

14. Vampire Beliefs in Modernity

[32:51] Prof. Blair:

Intellectual skepticism rose post-Enlightenment, but beliefs survived in remote or traumatized areas (e.g., Romania as recently as 2004).
Describes the phenomena as “epidemic”—rising and falling with social stress rather than simply disappearing due to reason or science.

“Walking corpses are so common, it’s boring to talk about them, there are so many of them.” — William of Newbrough, 12th century [32:51]

15. Why Do These Beliefs Persist?

[35:06] Prof. Blair:

The concept of persecuting the dead (as opposed to the living) can act as an emotional safety valve in times of trauma.
- Scapegoating the dead is “the most harmless of all the outlets for the persecution mentality.”
“Killing the dead is better than killing the living.” [36:27]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On real vs. fictional vampires:
“Forget about Count Dracula.” — Prof. Blair [07:32]
On dangerous categories:
“If a cat jumps over the body, that’s really, really bad. The person may have been a saint, but if the cat jumps over the corpse, then they become a vampire and you have to deal with them.” — Prof. Blair [09:33]
On intergenerational tension:
“It’s those powerful matriarchal women who are sometimes seen as a threat by younger generations...” — Prof. Blair [21:51]
On residue of beliefs:
“In 2004... much of the action and reported explanations afterwards were filmed so we can actually watch on video what people thought.” — Prof. Blair [33:53]
On the roots of blame:
“It’s the most harmless of all the outlets for the persecution mentality.” — Prof. Blair [36:27]

Key Timestamps

01:30 - Defining vampire epidemics (animated corpses, not ghosts)
03:18 - Where and why vampire beliefs arise (“Vampire Belt” and shamanism)
05:20 - Differentiation between vampires and zombies
07:10 - Dracula’s inaccuracy vs. popular myth
08:53 - Who becomes a vampire; gender, age, and circumstances
13:07 - Vampire motivation
16:19 - Traditional methods of corpse mutilation
20:04 - Religious interpretations and justifications
21:51 - Family structure and the mother-in-law motif
23:54 - Parallels with witch hunts, cycles of scapegoating
25:35 - Vampire folklore in America & TB connection
28:32 - The feedback loop between popular belief and print
30:55 - Sad and romantic stories of the vampire dead
32:51 - Endurance of beliefs, “epidemic” cycles
35:06 - The psychological function of corpse scapegoating

Overall Tone and Style

The conversation blends academic rigor, eerie case studies, and moments of wry humor (e.g., “Literally neighbours from hell”), with sympathy both for historical people grappling with grief and for modern listeners’ fascination. It maintains an accessible, engaging style without sacrificing complexity.

This summary provides a comprehensive, timestamped guide to the episode's deep dive into vampire epidemics, with ample direct quotations to capture the scholarly yet lively tone of the discussion.

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What is a Vampire Epidemic?

[01:30] Prof. Blair:

Clarifies his study isn’t about ghosts but about the belief in animated corpses causing harm after death.
“It's the belief that corpses are animated after death in one way or another. ...the crucial thing is people believe that the actual corpse has still got some sort of life or power inside it.”
Differentiates from haunting spirits—focus is on the physical body still exerting influence.

2. Origins and Distribution of Vampire Beliefs

[02:17] Prof. Blair:

Traces first evidence to written Mesopotamian sources in the Neo-Assyrian period (~7th century BC).
Suggests the idea may be far older, rooted also in prehistory and visible in archaeological evidence.
Discusses the "Vampire Belt": a broad region from northwestern Europe through eastern Europe to China and Southeast Asia.
- These societies often share shamanistic traditions and have intergenerational trauma as a trigger for vampire beliefs.
“There's a human propensity to think that corpses are a bit disconcerting in one way or another... it's only certain societies that think they're actually physically doing harm.” [03:36]

3. Vampires vs. Zombies: Definitions & Vocabulary

[05:20] Prof. Blair:

Etymology: ‘Vampire’ derives from Proto-Turkic words for ‘sucking demon’
Use of “zombie” is more specific to African and Haitian contexts, where the ‘dead’ are not truly dead but made to appear so by poison.
Uses “undead” as a catchall; emphasizes that the modern notion of a vampire is quite different from historical beliefs.

4. Dracula: Fact vs. Fiction

[07:10] Prof. Blair:

Points out that Count Dracula is highly uncharacteristic compared to historical vampires.
- Dracula: centuries old, aristocratic, cunning—qualities not seen in actual beliefs.
- Real 'vampires' tended to be ordinary, recently deceased people, often with unclear motivations.
“None of that applies to the dangerous corpses that people actually believed in...If you want to understand what people really believed in, then forget about Count Dracula.” [07:32]

5. Who Became a Vampire?

[08:53] Prof. Blair:

Not necessarily evil in life; more about improper death/burial, untimely deaths, or ritual errors.
Highlighted risk categories include:
- People who died young/violently.
- Bodies not properly watched between death and burial (notably in Greece: “if a cat jumps over the body, that's really, really bad”).
- Strikingly, young women (15–25), especially those unmarried or dead in childbirth, are often seen as dangerous dead in many societies.
“In many cultures, the dangerous dead have been largely female, and in particular women between the ages of about 15 and 25.” [08:53]

6. Vampire Motives and Evil

[13:07] Prof. Blair:

Mixed: some are simply restless, others are ‘nasty’ or ‘mood hoovers’—people who sapped energy in life.
Actions attributed vary by culture: causing illness, poison, or sleep paralysis (described as an entity sitting on the chest at night).

“Neighbors from hell...They’re tiresome, quarrelsome, dishonest, grumpy neighbors who just go on being a real nuisance after they die.” [13:07]

7. How to Neutralize a Vampire

[16:19] Prof. Blair:

Various methods described in texts and visible in archaeology:
- Turning the body over, binding limbs, breaking bones, beheading, separating jaws, staking, removing and burning organs (especially heart/lungs), or cremating the corpse entirely.
Tactics tailored to prevent ‘walking’ or further influence.

“You can turn the body over... tie the legs back... break the legs...cut off the head...drive a stake...” [16:19]
Noteworthy: Many such rituals have continuous traditions, e.g., similar procedures from medieval England and modern Romania.

8. Religious Attitudes Toward Corpse Mutilation

[20:04] Prof. Blair:

Christianity is officially opposed (soul has left the body), but relabels the corpse as demonically occupied to justify interventions.
Islam generally dislikes mutilation; in Turkish-influenced regions, it's discouraged.
Many polytheistic cultures sanction such practices.

9. Dangerous Mothers-in-law: Family Structures and Vampire Myths

[21:51] Prof. Blair:

Prevalent in multigenerational households; dominant matriarchs (often mothers-in-law) perceived as wanting to continue their authority after death.
- Intergenerational conflict, guilt—particularly in migrant contexts—can revive or sustain these beliefs.
"It's those powerful matriarchal women who are sometimes seen as a threat by younger generations..." [21:51]

10. Parallels Between Vampire Scares and Witch Hunts

[23:54] Prof. Blair:

Vampires and witches are both physical scapegoats, though one is dead, the other alive.
Epidemics/trauma seem to spark one kind or the other, but rarely both in the same place at the same time, suggesting they fill a social need for scapegoating.

11. Vampire Beliefs in America

[25:35] Prof. Blair:

German immigrants brought vampire lore (e.g., shroud-chewers) to Pennsylvania; adapted to tuberculosis epidemics in New England.
Bodies of TB victims might be exhumed, organs burned to ‘stop’ the plague within a family.
Last such practices persisted as late as 1949.

“The last known corpse killing in a western society outside the Aegean and outside the Balkans.” [27:56]

12. Interplay of Popular Belief and Print Culture

[28:32] Prof. Blair:

Folklore and books interact: sometimes actual practices, sometimes accusations inspired by printed stories.
Example: The belief in drinking blood from corpses as a vampiric cure began in a French pamphlet (borrowed from an unrelated African context), became cited as ‘fact’ in Poland, and peasants went on trial for it.

13. Sadness and Humanity in Vampire Stories

[30:55] Prof. Blair:

Stories of young women who die and return to seek lovers—often reflect unresolved grief and longing.
Example: The tale of Makates and Philinnion, echoed in both China and ancient Greece, influencing later vampire romance literature.

14. Vampire Beliefs in Modernity

[32:51] Prof. Blair:

Intellectual skepticism rose post-Enlightenment, but beliefs survived in remote or traumatized areas (e.g., Romania as recently as 2004).
Describes the phenomena as “epidemic”—rising and falling with social stress rather than simply disappearing due to reason or science.

“Walking corpses are so common, it’s boring to talk about them, there are so many of them.” — William of Newbrough, 12th century [32:51]

15. Why Do These Beliefs Persist?

[35:06] Prof. Blair:

The concept of persecuting the dead (as opposed to the living) can act as an emotional safety valve in times of trauma.
- Scapegoating the dead is “the most harmless of all the outlets for the persecution mentality.”
“Killing the dead is better than killing the living.” [36:27]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On real vs. fictional vampires:
“Forget about Count Dracula.” — Prof. Blair [07:32]
On dangerous categories:
“If a cat jumps over the body, that’s really, really bad. The person may have been a saint, but if the cat jumps over the corpse, then they become a vampire and you have to deal with them.” — Prof. Blair [09:33]
On intergenerational tension:
“It’s those powerful matriarchal women who are sometimes seen as a threat by younger generations...” — Prof. Blair [21:51]
On residue of beliefs:
“In 2004... much of the action and reported explanations afterwards were filmed so we can actually watch on video what people thought.” — Prof. Blair [33:53]
On the roots of blame:
“It’s the most harmless of all the outlets for the persecution mentality.” — Prof. Blair [36:27]

Key Timestamps

01:30 - Defining vampire epidemics (animated corpses, not ghosts)
03:18 - Where and why vampire beliefs arise (“Vampire Belt” and shamanism)
05:20 - Differentiation between vampires and zombies
07:10 - Dracula’s inaccuracy vs. popular myth
08:53 - Who becomes a vampire; gender, age, and circumstances
13:07 - Vampire motivation
16:19 - Traditional methods of corpse mutilation
20:04 - Religious interpretations and justifications
21:51 - Family structure and the mother-in-law motif
23:54 - Parallels with witch hunts, cycles of scapegoating
25:35 - Vampire folklore in America & TB connection
28:32 - The feedback loop between popular belief and print
30:55 - Sad and romantic stories of the vampire dead
32:51 - Endurance of beliefs, “epidemic” cycles
35:06 - The psychological function of corpse scapegoating

Overall Tone and Style

This summary provides a comprehensive, timestamped guide to the episode's deep dive into vampire epidemics, with ample direct quotations to capture the scholarly yet lively tone of the discussion.

Powered by Wave AI

Summary

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What is a Vampire Epidemic?

2. Origins and Distribution of Vampire Beliefs

3. Vampires vs. Zombies: Definitions & Vocabulary

4. Dracula: Fact vs. Fiction

5. Who Became a Vampire?

6. Vampire Motives and Evil

7. How to Neutralize a Vampire

8. Religious Attitudes Toward Corpse Mutilation

9. Dangerous Mothers-in-law: Family Structures and Vampire Myths

10. Parallels Between Vampire Scares and Witch Hunts

11. Vampire Beliefs in America

12. Interplay of Popular Belief and Print Culture

13. Sadness and Humanity in Vampire Stories

14. Vampire Beliefs in Modernity

15. Why Do These Beliefs Persist?

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Key Timestamps

Overall Tone and Style

Summary

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What is a Vampire Epidemic?

2. Origins and Distribution of Vampire Beliefs

3. Vampires vs. Zombies: Definitions & Vocabulary

4. Dracula: Fact vs. Fiction

5. Who Became a Vampire?

6. Vampire Motives and Evil

7. How to Neutralize a Vampire

8. Religious Attitudes Toward Corpse Mutilation

9. Dangerous Mothers-in-law: Family Structures and Vampire Myths

10. Parallels Between Vampire Scares and Witch Hunts

11. Vampire Beliefs in America

12. Interplay of Popular Belief and Print Culture

13. Sadness and Humanity in Vampire Stories

14. Vampire Beliefs in Modernity

15. Why Do These Beliefs Persist?

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Key Timestamps

Overall Tone and Style