Preview: Should historians be celebrities?

Summary

Summary: "Should Historians Be Celebrities?"

History Extra Podcast – Preview Episode
Release Date: October 3, 2025
Host: Matt Alton
Panelists: Hannah Skoda and Rana Mitter

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Episode Overview

This preview episode from the new podcast series History Behind the Headlines explores the phenomenon of the "celebrity historian," taking as a launching point David Olusoga's forthcoming appearance on the BBC reality show Celebrity Traitors. The discussion considers whether historians should become celebrities, examines precedents for public-facing historians in the past, and interrogates the tensions between historical accuracy and public appetite for entertainment.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Celebrity Historian: Historical Precedent

• Hannah Skoda reflects on the long-standing tradition of popular historians gaining prominence (03:55–08:17):
  • She cites Harrison Ainsworth, a 19th-century historical novelist more popular than Dickens in his time, who galvanized public interest in heritage sites through vivid and accessible writing.
  • Ainsworth’s novel, "The Tower of London" (1841), was cited as directly encouraging public investment and increased visitors to the Tower, due to "extremely detailed architectural descriptions" and sensational gothic elements.
  • Skoda notes that 19th-century interest in history often "had a sort of Gothic flavour"—with ghost stories, horrors, and romance dominating public imagination.
  • She points to problematic elements, like how much of the "gory torture paraphernalia" displayed to Victorian visitors was fabricated to match expectations—the infamous "thumbscrew," for example, was largely a 19th-century invention:

    “A lot of these torture instruments were pretty much invented in the 19th century… They weren’t actually used in the Middle Ages.”
    — Hannah Skoda, 07:37

• This history illustrates the persistent tension between history as entertainment and history as integrity.

The Tensions of Historical Popularization

• Skoda raises the dilemma for today’s historians (08:00–08:17):
  • There is a “fine line” between making history engaging for the public and maintaining fidelity to “historical realities.”
  • Modern presentations, especially in heritage and education, must balance sensitivity to victims and accuracy, rather than distorting for spectacle:

    “It's not okay to distort things in order to make things more entertaining. So historians are always treading this really fine line and it's a tension that I think remains really current.” — Hannah Skoda, 08:12

Is Celebrity Status in Historians' Hands?

• Rana Mitter addresses whether historians should or even can become celebrities (08:17–09:26):
  • Argues celebrity is mostly outside individual historians’ control—more a matter of "the fickle finger of fate" and timely relevance of a historian’s specialty.
  • Topics can become suddenly relevant due to world events, and historians in those fields may be thrust into the spotlight "serendipitously."
  • Mitter notes, however, that there is sometimes broader benefit ("greater public good") when historians gain a platform—he signals an intent to argue in favor of this, at least in certain cases:

    “If we're saying should in the sense of, you know, is there some greater public good that comes for it? I'm going to try and make a case for yes, and I'll explain why.” — Rana Mitter, 09:08

The Broader Implications

• The preview episode teases further exploration of:
  • How celebrity can be both a blessing and a challenge for historical accuracy.
  • The potential educational value of public historian figures.
  • The risks of sensationalism when historians become personalities.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Victorian sensationalism:

  “In the 19th century, they really went for it in terms of the entertainment dimension.”
  — Hannah Skoda, 08:06

• On the modern challenge:

  “Historians are always treading this really fine line and it's a tension that I think remains really current.”
  — Hannah Skoda, 08:12

• On the unpredictability of fame:

  “…a combination of the fickle finger of fate and also some questions like, you know, such as the, the timeliness of the topic…”
  — Rana Mitter, 08:21

• On the possibility of positive influence:

  “Is there some greater public good that comes for it? I'm going to try and make a case for yes, and I'll explain why.”
  — Rana Mitter, 09:08

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Important Timestamps

• 01:49–01:59 – Official start of content, show and host introductions.
• 03:06–03:19 – Introductions of regular panelists Hannah Skoda and Rana Mitter.
• 03:19–03:55 – Setting up the episode’s central question: "Should historians be celebrities?"
• 03:55–08:17 – Hannah Skoda’s deep dive into the history and complications of historical celebrity.
• 08:17–09:26 – Rana Mitter on the nature of celebrity and its unpredictability for historians.
• 09:26–09:44 – Episode wrap-up and link out to full episode.

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Tone and Style

The conversation keeps an engaging, accessible tone—balancing anecdotal stories and deeper academic insights. Both panelists show respect for the complexities of public history while injecting personality and humor (e.g., Skoda’s enthusiasm for “Gothic horror” in Victorian public history, Mitter’s sardonic take on fate and fame).

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Takeaway

Should historians be celebrities? The debate remains open:

• There’s rich precedent for historians stimulating public interest and contributing to broader understanding, but also significant risks if entertainment’s pull leads to misrepresentation or distortion.
• Modern historians juggle the pressures of making history compelling while protecting its integrity—an old dilemma in a new media landscape.
• The full episode promises deeper dives into both the opportunities and perils of the historian-as-celebrity.

For a nuanced and provocative discussion, listeners are encouraged to subscribe to the full "History Behind the Headlines" podcast.

Transcript

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[Hannah Skoda]

Welcome to the History Extra podcast. Fascinating historical conversations from the makers of BBC History Magazine.

[Matt Alton]

From the flags that have been appearing in towns and cities around the UK to the long running tensions behind recent political violence in the United States, understanding history is often vital to make sense of the latest news. History Extra's podcast series History behind the Headlines, which is now launched as a standalone podcast releasing fortnightly on Thursdays, explores this context as regular panelists Ran Amitter and Hannah Skoda, plus a range of guest experts look into the past behind the present. Our most recent episode investigates the phenomenon of the celebrity historian ahead of David Olashoga's starring role on BBC reality series the Celebrity Traitors, which starts next week. Here's a taste of their thoughts. And don't forget to search for History behind the Headlines wherever you listen to podcasts or click the link in the description to hear the rest of the episode and follow the Feed now. Hello and welcome to History behind the Headlines, History Extra's podcast series exploring the context you need to understand the latest breaking news stories and the times when history itself makes the front page. I'm Matt Alton and I'm joined today by our two regular panelists.

[Hannah Skoda]

I'm Hannah Skoda. I'm fellow and Tutor in Late medieval history at St John's College in Oxford.

[Rana Mitter]

And I'm Rana Mitter. I'm St. Lee Chair in US Asia Relations at the Harvard Kennedy School.

[Matt Alton]

Hannah and Rana, thank you so much as always for being with us. Next week sees the launch of the BBC's new series the Celebrity Traitors, which, as the name suggests, a range of famous faces playing the reality deception game. They include Tom Daly, Claire Balding, and most relevantly for our purposes, the historian David Olashogga. This is really interesting for us to talk about in terms of the relationship between historians and celebrity and I suppose what happens when historians become famous figures in their own right. To boil it down to perhaps an over simple question, just to kick us off, do you think that historians should be celebrities?

[Hannah Skoda]

I'm not sure whether I know whether historians should or shouldn't be celebrities, but I was going backwards in time and thinking a little bit about historians in previous centuries who've achieved a sort of celebrity status. And recently I've been treating myself to reading some of the novels of Harrison Ainsworth, who's largely a forgotten figure now, but in the mid 19th century he even outsold Dickens at one stage. He was immensely popular and he was a historical novelist. So he wrote a whole series of extremely detailed historical novels on topics which he was passionate about. And he had a very explicit goal in mind which was to contribute to public interest in heritage sites and also to sort of provoke more public investment into the restoration of those sites. So, for example, in 1841 he published a novel called the Tower of London. And it opens with quite an extensive preface where he tells us that one of his goals is to stimulate the restoration of the Tower and its more extensive opening to the public. He says buildings like this are the property of the nation and they should be open to national inspection. And then he says the day, he hopes the day is not far off when all really worth seeing will be accessible. And then he launches into this wild romance tale of the very, very short reign of Lady Jane Grey. But it's interspersed with incredibly detailed architectural descriptions of what you would see if you went to visit the Tower. And I think in many ways Harrison Ainsworth was almost single handedly responsible for provoking a kind of outpouring of interest in the Tower. Visitor numbers increased dramatically. But all this was part of a. A kind of early to mid 19th century obsession with thinking about heritage, about history, and thinking about it quite often with a sort of Gothic flavour to it. So the horrors of the Tower really appealed to people and one can think of lots of other contexts as well in which this interest in history in the 19th century was all about ghosts and spectres of the past and full of romance and adventure. So, for example, by 1851, the Tower of London had a dedicated ticket office because the visitor numbers had increased quite so dramatically and people would come and they'd look at what they believed was the block on which Anne Boleyn had laid her head to be executed. Which actually wasn't. One thing I find particularly interesting is that this kind of outpouring of interest in history in the early 19th century, quite, quite a lot of it was really very dubious and a lot of it with this kind of Gothic y horror sort of dimension, really produced a kind of sensationalisation of the past in a way that I find quite problematic now. So, for example, if we think about the history of torture, lots of visitors were very, very keen to see as much kind of gory torture paraphernalia as possible. But actually we discover that a lot of these torture instruments were pretty much invented in the 19th century in order to appeal to these early tour who were coming to visit them. They weren't actually used in the Middle Ages. So the thumbscrew, for example, people did not use that in the Middle Ages. There's very little evidence of this going on. And that raises, I think, another whole set of questions about how we reconcile a sense of historical integrity with a sense of what history's doing as entertainment. I think in that period, in the 19th century, they really went for it in terms of the entertainment dimension. And I think now, particularly in kind of heritage context and presenting these sites to the public, people really worry a lot more about how to sort of manage this kind of tension of sort of public appetite for really sensationalised history, but also trying to present a history which is sensitive, sensitive to the experiences of victims in the past, but also sensitive to historical realities. Right. It's not okay to distort things in order to make things more entertaining. So historians are always treading this really fine line and it's a tension that I think remains really current.

[Rana Mitter]

So I'm thinking Matt's original question, you know, should historians become celebrities? Well, first of all I think this is not really in the historian's hands. I mean, the thing is that lots of historians I'm sure would love to be celebrities, but it's a combination of the fickle finger of fate and also some questions like, you know, such as the, the timeliness of the topic that they're interested in. I mean, for instance, historians of certain topics, such as the Middle east after 911 or with present day, for instance, I think probably found that their work suddenly becomes a great interest because of current affairs. But I suspect that becoming a celebrity is a bit serendipitous. You're never quite sure which of the particular fates are going to come together and actually give you that particular moment in the sun, or sometimes quite long moment in the sun. But having said that, I think the way in which that kind of historian, celebrity or celebrity historian has emerged in the 20th century give some indications of why it happens. And if we're saying should in the sense of, you know, is there some greater public good that comes for it? I'm going to try and make a case for yes, and I'll explain why.

[Matt Alton]

If you enjoyed that and want to hear more, don't forget to search for history behind the headlines or click the link in the description to hear the rest of the episode and follow the feed to never miss an episode.

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