History Extra Podcast Summary

Episode: Prophetesses & She-Preachers of the 17th Century
Host: Ellie Cawthorn (Immediate Media)
Guest: Dr. Naomi Baker
Date: January 2, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode delves into the lives, beliefs, and legacies of radical religious women—prophetesses, visionaries, and "she-preachers"—who defied 17th-century expectations. Dr. Naomi Baker, author of Voices of Thunder, joins Ellie Cawthorn to explore how women seized unprecedented opportunities to speak, write, travel, and even intervene in politics, driven by their spiritual convictions amid the era’s religious and political upheaval.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Did Radical Religious Women Do?

• Preaching & Writing: Women preached, traveled independently, and wrote prolifically, including some of the earliest forms of English autobiography—conversion narratives.
  • Quote, Dr. Naomi Baker (02:00):
    “They preached and they travelled independently of men, and above all, they wrote … women who are writing about their lives, who believe that their lives have vast eternal spiritual significance.”
• Biblical Interpretation: They developed innovative theological ideas and interpreted scripture in new ways.

2. Religious & Social Context (02:53–05:20)

• Radical Protestantism: The movement’s emphasis on direct, subjective spiritual experience and equality with God overturned traditional hierarchies.
  • Quote (03:44):
    “…they no longer accept or believe that they are inferior in a spiritual sense, at least with men or with anyone else.”
• Upheaval: The 17th century was marked by civil war, political debate over authority (parliament vs. monarch), and general societal turbulence.
• Summary: Theological belief in spiritual equality became a lever not just for women's religious voice, but also for questioning broader societal hierarchies.

3. Major Religious Groups Involved (05:28–06:43)

• Baptists and Quakers:
  • Baptists—Emerging movement; restrictive on women preaching formally.
  • Quakers—Embellished doctrine of the “inner light” and enabled greater, though not total, female participation.
  • Group Fluidity: Many women did not remain within a single group; affiliations were often brief or overlapping.

4. Women Preaching: Scandal and Innovation (06:43–10:00)

• Informal Preaching: Although still denied pulpit roles, many women preached in informal meetings or public spaces, often drawing huge crowds.
  • Hostility: Historical accounts were typically hostile, mocking, or dismissive.
  • Quote, on Elizabeth Attaway (08:57):
    “…we catch a glimpse of an extremely brave woman who was just determined to be true to her sense of what God was telling her…”
• Scandal: Even radical groups were uneasy about women preaching; for mainstream society, it was outrageous.

5. Personalities, Motivations, and Bravery (10:00–11:14)

• Courage: All these women demonstrated courage and deep personal conviction, though personalities ranged from hesitant and apologetic to fiery and fearless.
  • On Hester Biddle (10:40):
    “She really articulates…denounces London for its economic inequalities... She’s a very fiery character.”
• Backgrounds: Most were from modest or even impoverished backgrounds, not gentry or elites.
  • On Rose Thurgood (11:21):
    “…poor to the point of starvation along with her four children… we hardly have any voices from this era from anyone, let alone women suffering that level of social deprivation…”
• Social Mobility: Some experienced social decline, with previously moderate status lost due to family misfortune.

6. Mysticism, Visions, and Prophecy (13:10–15:58)

• Mystical Experience: Many women saw themselves as conduits for God’s will, grounded in a tradition of Christian mysticism, not a new or gender-specific trait.
• Notable Example: Anna Chapnell
  • Had “very powerful visions,” sometimes foretelling political events, often with direct criticism of Oliver Cromwell.
  • Fused intense biblical vision with political resistance.
  • Quote (14:13):
    “…her visions essentially coalesce around extreme condemnation of Oliver Cromwell…very specifically political, trying to reject Cromwell’s authority…”

7. Religion and Politics Intertwined (17:41–20:12)

• Case Study: Elizabeth Poole
  • Addressed Parliament’s army council, arguing prophetically against executing King Charles I—an unprecedented political intervention for a woman.
  • Was granted an audience and initially respected, though her message was ultimately ignored.
  • Quote, Dr. Baker (17:56):
    “It just shows the extent to which the role of prophecy…gave you access to power at the highest level.”
• Danger: These women faced significant risks (20:22–21:00):
  • Imprisonment, physical and verbal abuse both within and outside their communities—especially acute for Quakers post-Restoration.
  • Utilized laws like the Vagrancy Act to prosecute them for “gadding about” rather than remaining at home.

8. Global Travel and Encounters (21:45–25:11)

• Mary Fisher:
  • Yorkshire maidservant turned Quaker missionary.
  • Traveled across England, the Caribbean, New England, and famously had an audience with the Ottoman Sultan.
  • Purpose: Not conversion, but to “testify to the light within” other peoples.
  • Encounter with Sultan was safe, respectful—contrasting with her harsh reception in England.
  • Quote (about the Sultan’s reception, 24:26):
    “He was extremely kind, extremely courteous. He gives her a reception, he lets her speak, he listens to what she has to say…”

9. Spiritual Equality vs. Feminism (25:11–26:56)

• Not Feminist?: The women were not explicitly campaigning for women’s rights as understood today. Their focus was spiritual equality, which nonetheless subverted social norms.
  • Left husbands, traveled independently—contravened expectations of both class and gender.
  • Quote (25:40):
    “…they weren't motivated specifically by trying to champion women's rights… Nevertheless, they very much preached and spoke about the principle of spiritual equality…”

10. Language, Imagery, and Literary Innovation (26:56–29:39)

• Apocalyptic & Biblical Themes:

  • Prophetic literature fused apocalyptic, biblical imagery (often from Revelation, Daniel, Ezekiel) with local and personal references.
  • Women reappropriated images (e.g., “Whore of Babylon”) and biblical stereotypes to address contemporary issues.
  • Created a distinct voice—less stylized, more authentic, and pioneering in autobiography and spiritual self-reflection.
  • Quote (27:50):
    “Their prophecies…have biblical imagery threaded through them, but they often fuse that biblical imagery with quite local imagery.”

• Text Highlight: Rose Thurgood’s Conversion Narrative (29:39–30:53)

  • Unique for its honesty, vividness, and rare perspective from a poor 17th-century woman.
  • Discovered only recently; one of the earliest English autobiographical accounts by a marginalized voice.

11. Legacy (30:53–32:58)

• Contested but Lasting:

  • Some historians see these radical women’s influence as fleeting; Dr. Baker disagrees.

  • Argued their actions and writings “let the genie out of the bottle”—producing a cultural memory that influenced later movements like feminism and abolitionism.

  • Principles such as spiritual equality, the authority of conscience, and “your subjective experience of truth” remain culturally resonant.

  • Quote (31:55):
    “You can’t put that kind of genie back in a bottle… The principle of spiritual equality…those are sort of principles that are still very much live in our culture, which I see as coming directly through these radical traditions, including the women that I write about.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “They believed that their own lives had vast eternal spiritual significance…” — Dr. Naomi Baker (02:05)
• “Who are we subject to?... people have to decide whether they're accountable... Is it parliament? Is it a divinely appointed king?” — Dr. Naomi Baker (04:36)
• “Women did begin to preach… the reason we know about this is mainly because of people who were so outraged that they would write tracts or pamphlets denouncing this shameful practice…” — Dr. Naomi Baker (07:28)
• “These women are all putting themselves out there because they're trying to be true to their sense of what God has asked of them.” — Dr. Naomi Baker (11:06)
• “For anyone from this era to have an audience with the sultan was an amazing thing.” — Dr. Naomi Baker (24:56)
• “I certainly don't think it was just a blip which then went away.” — Dr. Naomi Baker (32:52)

Important Timestamps

• 02:00–02:41 — Overview of women’s activities: preaching, writing, innovating
• 04:23–05:20 — Impact of 17th-century religious upheaval
• 06:56–09:46 — Women preaching; first known female preachers
• 11:21–13:10 — Social backgrounds; rare voices from poverty
• 14:13–15:58 — Visions, prophecy, and their political resonance
• 17:56–20:12 — Elizabeth Poole and intervention in trial of Charles I
• 21:59–25:11 — Mary Fisher’s world travels and Ottoman audience
• 26:56–27:50 — Apocalypse and biblical imagery recontextualized
• 29:39–30:53 — Rose Thurgood's autobiographical narrative
• 30:57–32:58 — Legacy of these radical women

Episode Tone and Style

The tone is scholarly but vivid, blending careful historical analysis with storytelling. Naomi Baker is empathetic, precise, and nuanced, highlighting both the courage and complexity of these women. Ellie Cawthorn draws out the broader significance for listeners, connecting past to present without oversimplification.

Conclusion

This episode shines a light on the bold, innovative, and often overlooked women who shaped religious thought and practice in 17th-century England. Their stories, from public preaching to defying the bounds of gender and class, resonate through historical memory, challenging how we view both women’s roles in history and the enduring power of spiritual conviction.

Book plug: Dr. Naomi Baker’s Voices of Thunder: Radical Religious Women of the 17th Century (University of Manchester).

End of summary.