Secrets of medieval churches

Summary

History Extra Podcast: "Secrets of Medieval Churches" – Detailed Summary

Release Date: December 18, 2024
Host: David Musgrove
Guest: Andrew Ziminski, Stonemason, Conservator, and Author of "Church Going"

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Introduction

In the episode titled "Secrets of Medieval Churches," host David Musgrove engages in an insightful conversation with Andrew Ziminski, a seasoned stonemason and conservator with over four decades of experience in restoring medieval churches. Andrew is also the author of the book "Church Going," which delves into the intricacies and lesser-known aspects of medieval religious structures. The discussion explores the unique architectural features of medieval churches, the impact of the Reformation, the symbolism behind gargoyles and grotesques, and the enduring legacy of medieval masons.

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Andrew Ziminski’s Background and Motivation

[03:00] Andrew Ziminski:
Andrew begins by sharing his extensive experience as a church stonemason and conservator. He explains that his book, "Church Going," originated from his passion for educating visitors during his restoration projects. Observing that many people didn’t fully grasp the significance of the architectural elements they admired, Andrew created handouts to elucidate the features and furnishings of medieval churches. This initiative eventually blossomed into his comprehensive book.

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Exploring Overlooked Architectural Features

The Piscina and Its Significance

[04:00] Andrew Ziminski:
Andrew introduces the piscina, a small basin located beside the altar in every medieval church. He explains its liturgical purpose:

“A piscina is a small basin that you'd find beside the altar... they had to be carefully washed within this basin” ([04:00]).

The piscina was essential for cleansing the sacred vessels after the Eucharist, ensuring that the wine (symbolizing the blood of Christ) was disposed of respectfully. Interestingly, Andrew notes that these basins often contain peculiar items such as pins, buckles, and coins, indicating a folk tradition aimed at warding off malevolent spirits—an example of apotropaism.

Apotropaic Symbols and Practices

[05:49] Host:
The term apotropaism is introduced, referring to practices intended to ward off evil spirits. Andrew elaborates:

“It comes from the Greek to turn away spirits with evil intent... these are spirits that are determined to get into your cow byre, to curdle the cow's milk, or even to get into the church” ([05:56]).

He highlights various apotropaic elements within churches, including graffiti and symbolic designs like daisy wheels, which have been used for thousands of years to protect sacred spaces.

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Architectural Formula of Pre-Reformation Churches

[06:56] Andrew Ziminski:
Andrew outlines the standardized layout of pre-Reformation churches:

“Everyone who's familiar with the church will understand that it faces east... there will be a chancel... the nave would be the people's part of the church” ([06:56]).

He describes key components such as the chancel, sedilia (seats for priests), screen, and the nave, emphasizing the uniformity in church designs across regions.

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Impact of the Reformation on Medieval Churches

[08:16] Andrew Ziminski:
Andrew reflects on the devastating effects of the Reformation:

“It sort of makes me weep. I've seen so much destruction in my career... wholesale destruction of artworks, sculpture, anything that was considered idolatrous” ([08:16]).

He explains how successive monarchs, notably Henry VIII and Edward VI, led acts of iconoclasm that stripped churches of their rich decorations, wall paintings, and sculptures, fundamentally altering their appearance and spiritual ambiance.

Modern-Day Church Appearance

[09:04] Andrew Ziminski:
Contrasting the past and present, Andrew points out that today’s churches often appear sparse due to Victorian renovations that removed plaster and original decorations:

“Everything would have been whitewashed... artworks on the wall that would have had a religious theme would have just been despoiled or obliterated or painted over” ([09:04]).

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Exterior Features: Gargoyles vs. Grotesques

Defining Gargoyles and Grotesques

[13:07] Andrew Ziminski:
Andrew distinguishes between gargoyles and grotesques:

“Grotesque figures are just sculptural forms... Gargoyles... their purpose was practical... to throw water from the roof as far from the church as possible” ([13:07]).

While both serve decorative and symbolic roles, gargoyles have a functional purpose as waterspouts, whereas grotesques are purely ornamental, designed to ward off evil without any utility.

Examples and Artistic Variations

[14:22] Andrew Ziminski:
Sharing personal experiences, Andrew cites specific churches:

“Kilpeck Church in Herefordshire has the finest example of a shield and gig... depicting figures like the master mason holding his mallet” ([14:22]).

He contrasts the grotesques at Winchcombe with those at Steeple Ashton, highlighting the diverse artistic expressions and the possibility of identifying individual masons through stylistic similarities.

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Symbolism of Rude Statues and Genitalia

[16:54] Andrew Ziminski:
Andrew addresses the presence of rude statues—carved representations of genitalia—in medieval churches:

“Kilpeck is the most famous example where she is a lady displaying her private parts... very public manner” ([16:54]).

He suggests these carvings were not merely decorative or humorous but held devotional significance, particularly for women in the community, possibly serving protective or fertility-related purposes.

[18:04] Andrew Ziminski:
On the subject of genital carvings:

“The genitalia cut into leadwork is definitely local people... more devotional and more important to the women of their community” ([18:04]).

Andrew posits that these elements were imbued with symbolic meanings beyond mere earthly humor, reflecting deeper spiritual or protective intentions.

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Identifying Medieval Masons Through Architectural Signatures

[18:28] Andrew Ziminski:
Andrew delves into the craftsmanship of medieval masons:

“I can see the hands of these builders very clearly in these towers... you can see it's the same mason that's hand at work” ([18:28]).

He explains how consistent mortar mixes, stone sourcing, and specific carving techniques allow modern conservators to attribute certain architectural features to individual or familial mason groups. This continuity in craftsmanship underscores the artisanal traditions passed down through generations.

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Conclusion

Andrew Ziminski’s expertise offers listeners a profound appreciation for the intricate details and historical significance of medieval churches. His book, "Church Going," serves as a testament to the rich, often overlooked elements that define these sacred structures. By uncovering the symbolic meanings behind architectural features and understanding the lasting impact of historical events like the Reformation, Andrew provides a comprehensive exploration of Britain's ecclesiastical heritage. His passion for masonry and conservation not only preserves these historical edifices but also bridges the gap between past and present craftsmanship.

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Notable Quotes:

• Andrew Ziminski [04:00]:
  “A piscina is a small basin that you'd find beside the altar... they had to be carefully washed within this basin.”

• Andrew Ziminski [05:56]:
  “It comes from the Greek to turn away spirits with evil intent... these are spirits that are determined to get into your cow byre, to curdle the cow's milk, or even to get into the church.”

• Andrew Ziminski [08:16]:
  “It sort of makes me weep. I've seen so much destruction in my career... wholesale destruction of artworks, sculpture, anything that was considered idolatrous.”

• Andrew Ziminski [13:07]:
  “Grotesque figures are just sculptural forms... Gargoyles... their purpose was practical... to throw water from the roof as far from the church as possible.”

• Andrew Ziminski [18:28]:
  “I can see the hands of these builders very clearly in these towers... you can see it's the same mason that's hand at work.”

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This episode provides a rich exploration of medieval church architecture, blending historical insight with the hands-on experiences of a master conservator. Whether you're a history enthusiast or a casual listener, the "Secrets of Medieval Churches" episode offers a captivating journey into the past, revealing the hidden stories etched in stone.

Transcript

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[Andrew Ziminski]

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[David Musgrove]

Welcome to the History Extra podcast. Fascinating historical conversations from the makers of BBC History magazine. When you visit a medieval church, what oddities should you be looking out for? What's the difference between a gargoyle and a grotesque? And why in such holy places do you find rude and explicit statues? As a stonemason and conservator, Andrew Ziminski has spent his working life restoring medieval churches, and he's the author of a new book, Church Going, which is all about the ins and outs of these medieval religious buildings. Andrew spoke to David Musgrove today.

[Host]

I am delighted to be joined by Andrew Zyminski, whose new book is Church Going Now. Andrew is a bit different to the normal guest. We have on the History Extra podcast. He's not a historian by trade, he is a stonemason. Give us a little sense of you and your background and the sort of work that you do.

[Andrew Ziminski]

Well, I'm a church stonemason and conservator and I've been doing this for getting on for 40 years now. And the reason I wrote my book Church Going is that I was always giving impromptu tours to people on our scaffolding and around our church conservation projects, just explaining to them what all the features and furnishings were within the church. And it seemed very clear to me that people didn't really understand what they were looking at. I mean, why would they when all these features and furnishings became irrelevant after the Reformation? So I started to create handouts for them to understand better what it was they were actually looking at. And now that's turned into a book. So here we are.

[Host]

And you say in the book, which is a great read, by the way, it's not a history of church architecture. Instead it tells the story of medieval churches by exploring their often overlooked physical parts. So what are these often overlooked physical parts?

[Andrew Ziminski]

Well, I mean, everything. Do you know what a piscina is?

[Host]

Tell me.

[Andrew Ziminski]

Yeah, so a piscina is a small basin that you'd find beside the altar. And every single medieval church would have one of these features. And they would often be found by the credence shelf, which is a small shelf which the bread and wine would be stored before the consecration. And they overcame a tricky liturgical problem where the Eucharist, or the vessels of the Eucharist, the chalice and the pattern that held the wine and the bread, respectively, you know, they had to be carefully washed after the service. And of course, you know, the wine in the chalice is literally the blood of Christ, so that couldn't be disposed of willy nilly. So they were carefully washed within this basin. And in this basin there would have been a hole called a sacrarium, which was basically a drain. So the washed vessels of the sacrament drained into this hole and that water stayed in sacred space, as it were. And every single church will have one of these. But you walk around the church, it's just a little niche, it's not that interesting to look at, but in what I've discovered is that many of these drain holes will have strange things that have been pushed into them over the years. Pins, buckles, coins. And we find these strange deposits in most pursinas as we're repairing them at work. So there's a sort of folk element creeping in to the piscina, it's like they try to keep spirits with bad intent out of the church. And this apotropaic ness is a theme that can be seen throughout medieval churches in graffiti, in the way grotesques and gargoyles are presented outside the church, and so on and so forth.

[Host]

We're going to have to come back to those bits in a second. But you just use a challenging word, apotropaism. What does that mean?

[Andrew Ziminski]

Well, it comes from the Greek to turn away spirits with evil intent. So these are spirits that are determined to get into your cow byre, to curdle the cow's milk, or even to get into the church. And throughout churches you will find graffiti. Many of us will be familiar with this type of graffiti, that it's designed to capture these spirits and hold them in place. So these daisy wheels I'm sure many listeners will be familiar with. These are designs cut with a compass and simple inscribed marks around doorways and windows and other openings. These are symbols and designs that have been used for not just hundreds of years, but thousands, thousands of years.

[Host]

In the book, you do talk about the sort of the long history of some of these churches, don't you? But I just wanted to pick up on something. So the piscina you talked about, that's one very interesting element of a church. You do talk about pre Reformation churches being built to a formula. So I guess the piscina is part of that formula. What is the formula that you see?

[Andrew Ziminski]

I think everyone who's familiar with the church will understand that it faces east, where the dead will rise, facing the rising sun on the day of Judgment. But the layout of the church, there will be a chancel, which is the sort of sacred area where the altar is kept. And around that altar there will be various features and furnishings that help with the actual rituals that are being carried out there, you know, with the Holy Communion. So we've mentioned the piscina. I've mentioned a credence shelf where, you know, the vessels are kept and the books. And around that area there'll be lots of other features as well. There'll be sedelia, which is a row of seats for the priests to sit in, because obviously they wouldn't want chairs or thrones, if you like, if they're higher up. The pecking order to clutter the area around the altar which was sacred. And then in front of the chancel, the division between the chancel and the nave, you'd have a screen running across to mark that sacred area. And then the nave would be the people's part of the church. And, you know, these are elements that can be seen in every church throughout the land, unchanged.

[Host]

And the book focuses on medieval churches, and we've just talked about the fact that they were changed by the Reformation. What did the Reformation do to reshape churches?

[Andrew Ziminski]

Well, it sort of makes me weep. I've seen so much destruction in my career. The Reformation changed everything. It was like a nuclear strike on the churches of Britain. So from the time of Henry VIII through the acts of destruction, accelerated through his son Edward vi, and then slowed down with Mary, who wanted to turn things back around to how they were before, and then sort of reached a balance with Queen Elizabeth first. But there was wholesale destruction of artworks, sculpture, anything that was considered idolatrous.

[Host]

So given that there was this, like, radical restructuring in the 16th century, what do you think would most surprise a modern visitor if they could time travel back into the Middle Ages and go and visit some of these churches?

[Andrew Ziminski]

So today we'll visit a church, and we'll be aware that the Victorians would have stripped the plaster from the walls and the stonework will have been exposed. And church is very often pretty sparse spaces. But every now and again, you'll encounter a church that's got some plaster left on it. And on that plaster, there may be a wall painting. And that wall painting would just give us a suggestion of how churches would have looked. They would have been richly colored and richly decorated. There would have been sculpture everywhere. Candles would have been lit in front of the rude sculpture, which would have hung over the chancel arch or would have been fixed to the wall of the chancel arch. And as I said earlier, this was considered idolatrous. Rudes especially were considered idolatrous. And every church in. In the land would have had a rood, this depiction of the crucifixion. And they were all destroyed. Every single one was destroyed. There were just fragments and scraps left. So I think the biggest change, apart from the liturgical aspect, would have been the change in color. Everything would have been whitewashed. And the artworks on the wall that would have had a religious theme would have just been despoiled or obliterated or painted over.

[Host]

We've just been talking about sort of some internal elements of churches. I'd like to take you outside again for a bit because you've got a really nice opening section in your book where you talk about graveyards and what to see outside. But I just wonder when you pull up outside a church that you've got to do a job on or a church you just want to visit, what do you do? What's the first thing you look out for when you approach a church?

[Andrew Ziminski]

So the very first thing you have to do is to walk around the outside of the church, taking in the, you know, if there's a yew tree, taking in the box tombs and the headstones. And when I say headstones, this is just my personal taste, if you like, but not necessarily Victorian headstones, but the earlier headstones that you would find on the south side of the church, which would be 18th and maybe 17th century if you're in northern Britain. But always walk in a clockwise direction, never anti clockwise, never widdershins, because that will provoke bad luck apparently. So I've been told on many occasions. But I would always look up, enjoy any gargoyles or grotesques and I'd look at the windows themselves just to see if there's any stained glass in there. Just to give you a clue and whet my appetite for the stained glass, which is always so often ignored during a church visit because it's any medieval scraps of glass that you will encounter will always be worth seeing.

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[Andrew Ziminski]

Mmm.

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[Host]

Now there's a thing I really want to talk to you about, which you've mentioned a couple of times because I think it's one of the things that people love about medieval churches and that's gargoyles and grotesques. So firstly, what's the difference between a gargoyle and a grotesque?

[Andrew Ziminski]

So these creatures that we're all familiar with were created to turn away spirits with evil intent from entering the building. So they're gurning and they're pulling their mouths open and they're devouring their children or their legs or whatever. The main difference is that grotesque figures are just sculptural forms. They're not practical, so they just project from the edges of churches and the corners of towers, doing their job of keeping these evil spirits away. But gargoyles comes from the French for the throat to gargle. Their purpose was practical and it was to throw water from the roof as far from the church as possible. So many of them will have a lead spout sticking out. But their role is often forgotten about because the Victorians would introduce gutters and downpipes onto their churches, which very often bad. They'll block and they'll leak and they'll destroy the wall paintings inside.

[Host]

Now, I had a day out in the lovely Cotswold town of Winchcombe the other day. The church there has got some brilliant grotesques alongside of it. I admired them from beneath. They seem really good. Where else would you go to sort of really appreciate some great gargoyles and grotesques?

[Andrew Ziminski]

It's so funny you mentioned Winchcombe, because I was there yesterday. I've got to give a talk up there and I was just doing some homework. And they're more grotesque figures at Winchcombe and they're really fantastic. There's even a depiction of the master mason who, or interpretation of the master mason who actually built the church there, isn't there? Because he's holding his little mason's mallet in his hand. And then there's the local sort of mayor and his big medieval hat and a really great cast of character set. I mean, they're cartoons really, aren't they? The very best church that I've worked on is at Steeple Ashton in Wiltshire. And the grotesques and gargoyles there are very, very different in character to those found at Winchcombe in Gloucestershire. These are more. They're sort of simple figures. They're like Moomins, but they're Moomins with ferocious teeth that are eating their children. They're very, very odd. You know, they're very simple looking. They got big bulging eyes and simple round faces and they're just clinging to the side of the church. But, you know, that just displays something of the artistry of the sculptor that created these things. I don't think that gargoyles and grotesques were created by the jobbing masons, as it were. I think each crew of masons would have a specialist carver and this individual would just go around knocking these things up and then just going on to the next church. But I do see similarities in gargoyle style, if you like, in many of the churches that I've worked on. So I can see the hands of a particular individual at work at these places. I mean, there's a trio of churches near me in Frome and Somerset. We've worked on all three of these churches. And you can see it's the same mason that's hand at work. And they're all working in the 1470s and 1480s. It's so thrilling to me to meet them again. So I'm always looking out. And I've also seen another couple of churches in the Somerset Levels where I suspect, you know, which is like 20 miles away, where I suspect this same crew have been at work. So, you know, they would just go from job to job.

[Host]

Okay, we'll come back to that in a second about how far you can identify masons through their work. In your examination. I just wanted to sort of go a little bit deeper into figures on churches, because another thing you talk about in the book is Sheilner Giggs. And maybe let's talk about Kilpeck Church in Herefordshire, which has got the finest example of that. What's a shield and a gig all about? And tell us a little bit about the rude bits that you might find in medieval churches.

[Andrew Ziminski]

Well, medieval churches are awash with rude bits. Kilpeck is the most famous example where she is a lady displaying her private parts. But I sort of see her as a. I don't think she's like a gargoyle or anything like that. She's not turning away spirits with evil intent. I think the local mothers, prior to childbirth, would have, you know, considered her a place of devotion. You know, I think she would be very important to the women of the community. And you can see them all over the place. I mean, I've traveled up to the Western Isles of Scotland, and there's one on a church up there that's. She's. I think she's quite warm, but she's holding a. An infant in one arm and she's displaying her private parts, you know, in a very public manner. And on the other side of the wall, there's another chap. He's displaying his privates as well, in. In a very pornographic way, you might say. And it's not unusual to discover these carved forms around churches.

[Host]

So what's this all about with these genitalia that you find in medieval churches. Is this just earthy humour from the masons, in your view?

[Andrew Ziminski]

The genitalia cut into leadwork is definitely local people going up there and making their mark, if you like. But I think the depictions of the male member is definitely apotropaic in intent, but like I say, with a sheen and a gig. I'm not sure that's the case. I think that was more devotional and more important to the women of their community.

[Host]

Now then, I just wanted to go back and talk a little bit about how far you can identify medieval masons, or how you can identify with medieval masons, because obviously you. You're a stonemason yourself. Do you find yourself communing with the people who built the churches originally? Do you find yourself thinking, oh, I can see the individual hand of someone I can recognize?

[Andrew Ziminski]

Oh, all the time. Yeah, all the time. Like the three churches I mentioned earlier that we've all worked on have all got little. Just little telltales and very big obvious telltales. I mean, all the towers that they've built are very similar architecturally. They were all built within 15 years of each other. I'd just say after the Black Death, huge amounts of money were bequeathed by the dead to the living, and the living would very often bequeath money to the local church to remember these individuals. And a few generations after the Black Death, western church towers, especially in southwestern Britain, were added to pretty much every church. So there'll be this spate of building from the 1430s, say, up to the 1520s, where Western Bell towers were added to existing churches that had only been built a hundred or 150 years before. So they couldn't really adjust the church, as it were, so they would just build these towers. So these teams of masons that would have been no more than four or five in number, would have traveled the country and worked in a jobbing way, just building one tower at a time. So it take them about three years to build one tower. These towers generally in three or four stages, and each stage would reflect the building season, which would start around Easter time and finish at Michaelmas in October. So when winter comes, obviously you can't use the mortars that would be destroyed by the frost and the newly quarried stone. You know, I can see the hands of these builders at work very clearly in these towers, which is an area of specialism for me. So you can see this in the window tracery, which is these pierced panels that allow the sound of the bells out. They're all very similar in form. And in Somerset we have a particular type of tracery called Somerset Tracery. This is a type of lattice work that you only find in Somerset. And I can just tell that these are all cut by the same hand or by the offspring of the original characters. You can see in the way the gargoyles have been cut and fixed as well. And you can also see in the way that as many medieval church towers went up, they would very often be ill found. The foundations wouldn't be deep enough, so they would start to lean out of true. So instead of trying to sort of correct and underpin that, they would just carry on building, but they would sort of build it at a slightly different angle. And you can see this on this, you know, I can understand their mindset. Oh, blimey, we're confronted with this, you know, moving tower. You know, let's just build it slightly back to try and make it more plumb. It's things like that I see all the time. And their mortar mixes as well, will always be the same. You know, masons are very particular about the mortar that they use to glue the stones together. You can tell a particular team by the mortar that they use, the aggregate that they will add to the lime and the local sand. And on these three churches in particular in Somerset, the mortar is exactly the same. So I can relate to that because I and my colleagues are very precious about the mortar that we use and the actual quarry that we get the stone from and the tools that we might use for a certain task. And the way the mortar itself has been buttered over the surface of the stone is very particular. You know, I can actually visualize this individual mortaring. They would lay the stone down, obviously one stone on top of another. The mortar would squeeze out and then they would just run a trowel over it. And it's just exactly the same as we would do now. It's pretty mind bending to me that we can just carry on that tradition.

[David Musgrove]

That was Andrew Zaminski, stonemason, church conservator and author. His latest book is Church the Curious History of Britain's Churches, published by Profile Books. Andrew also spoke to me for a previous podcast on Britain's stone monuments. You can find the link to that episode in the description of this episode. Thanks for listening. This podcast was produced by Lewis Dobbs.

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