Podcast Summary: History Extra – Secrets of the Romans' Spectacular Success

Host: Spencer Mizzen
Guest: Edward Watts, historian and author
Date: January 12, 2026

Overview

In this engaging episode, historian Edward Watts joins host Spencer Mizzen to address one of the great questions of world history: how did the Romans transform a muddy settlement on the Tiber into the ancient world’s most formidable empire? Drawing on his recent book, which ambitiously spans two millennia of Roman history, Watts unpacks the keys to Rome’s longevity, adaptability, legitimacy, and ongoing relevance. Listeners gain insights into the origins and end of Rome, the balance between conservatism and innovation, social mobility, the notorious reputations of early emperors, the endurance of “Roman-ness” in the east, and the surprising political agency of Roman women.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Defining the Roman Age: When Does It Start and End?

• The Challenge of Telling Rome’s Story

  • Watts describes the difficulty of encapsulating 2,000 years and conveying the lived experiences of Romans who didn’t see history’s artificial dividing lines.
  • “There are lifetimes that span the changes in the Roman world. They don't acknowledge and they don't recognize the places where we as modern historians want to draw lines.” — Edward Watts [03:51]

• Establishing Bookends for Rome

  • Origins: Watts chooses the 8th century BC, pointing to archaeological evidence and Roman tradition, but notes the city’s early history is murky:
    • “I don't think it started with Romulus. I don't know that I accept that date...But they know something.” — Edward Watts [05:48]
  • The End: Watts controversially picks 1204 CE (the sack of Constantinople by the Fourth Crusade) over the traditional 1453 (Ottoman conquest):
    • In 1204 the Roman state fragments, losing institutional continuity even as legacy fragments survive elsewhere.
    • “That state, with a direct institutional continuity going all the way back to whatever happened in the Palatine...ends in 1204.” — Edward Watts [09:12]

• Thread of Legitimacy and Citizenship

  • The Roman sense of legitimacy and accountability—grounded in citizenship and representation—remains the through-line.
    • “Citizens are the core, the blood, the sort of thing that keeps this thing real...Even Roman emperors acknowledge that they are functionally citizens serving in a position that is given to them by other citizens.” — Edward Watts [09:58]

What Made Rome’s Rise Possible?

• Balancing Tradition with Openness

  • Rome’s willingness to bring in outsiders with talent (unlike other ancient societies such as Sparta) was pivotal.
    • “Rome is...the antithesis of Sparta in that it recognizes talent and it wants to incorporate that talent...” — Edward Watts [11:32]

• Adaptation Versus Caution

  • Rome struck a delicate balance between innovation and conservatism, enabling it to grow without losing its identity.
    • “If you scrap everything...you lose the grounding...But at the same time, if you don't bring in new people and new ideas, you stagnate. The reason Rome outperformed...is because Rome was able to bring in new stuff.” — Edward Watts [13:27]
  • There were times, such as Caracalla’s mass extension of citizenship in 212, where Rome overreached, but generally adjusted course.

Transition from Republic to Empire

• From Dysfunction to Augustus
  • Watts contends the transition was not inevitable but was driven by institutional dysfunction and “larger-than-life” individuals when traditional constraints collapsed.
    • “When those systems are not working, they don't constrain individuals. And individuals begin operating in a way that is extremely creative and destructive at the same time.” — Edward Watts [17:58]
  • Augustus’ genius was to be both ruthless and to rebuild systems that provided stability and predictability.
    • “Rome got extremely lucky that they got Augustus instead of someone like Catiline who would have just wrecked it.” — Edward Watts [20:19]

Pax Romana: Golden Age or Myth?

• A Real Era of Stability
  • Watts affirms the reality of the Pax Romana—long internal stability and effective frontier defense rooted in Augustus’ adoption of professional armies.
    • “A small number of professional troops are better than a large number of Roman levies...It also generates political stability.” — Edward Watts [21:20]

Social Mobility and the Lives of Non-Elites

• Opportunity and Constraint
  • While Roman history often focuses on elites, Watts discusses remarkable instances of social mobility—especially in bureaucracy and the military—though such opportunity was uneven over time.
    • “They start checking report cards from all of the schools in the major cities in the Roman Empire with instructions...to identify the most capable candidates who can be brought into imperial bureaucratic service.” — Edward Watts [24:47]
  • Slavery, despite offering a pathway for some freed descendants, was “horrible” for those experiencing it.
    • “For the individual slaves, it’s a horrible thing to experience...And the promise that your kids or your grandkids might become an emperor—I mean, great, but you’re still experiencing something horrible.” — Edward Watts [27:29]

Why Are the Earliest Emperors So Notorious?

• Legacy of Suetonius and Ancient PR
  • The infamous reputations of Caligula, Nero, and Domitian spring largely from Suetonius’ popular (and oft-repeated) biographies.
    • “Part of it is they had a great PR agent. The PR agent is the author Suetonius... He also does a tremendous number on Caligula and a really, you know, tremendous number on Nero as well.” — Edward Watts [28:35]
  • Watts reflects on these emperors’ complexities and misrepresentations:
    • “I have tried really hard to redeem Caligula. I don’t think that could be done...With Domitian, I think he just gets a bad rap. And I think the political circumstances...are going to give him the worst possible rap he can have.” — Edward Watts [30:34]

The Eastern Roman Empire and the Invention of Byzantium

• An Accidental Division and Historical Amnesia
  • The east/west split was not intentional, but a consequence of dynastic accident and poor leadership in the west.
  • The “Byzantine” designation and denial of eastern Roman-ness stemmed from the west’s psychological need to reclaim Roman heritage, especially under Charlemagne.
    • “How can [the West] do that when there’s still this legitimately Roman thing centered in Constantinople that never lost it at all?...So the west begins this storytelling about, well, the east really isn’t Roman anymore.” — Edward Watts [32:08]

Surprising Power of Roman Women

• Rethinking Gender and Political Agency
  • Watts was struck by the frequency and acceptance of Roman women exercising direct political power—challenging old historical assumptions.
    • “Throughout Roman history, you see all these moments where there are spaces where men...can’t operate or are too weak...that women do operate politically...[men] acknowledged that they had the right to do it. And that’s different.” — Edward Watts [37:20]
  • Notable example: Empress Irene’s rule in 797 CE, but also repeated episodes stretching back to early Rome.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On History’s Artificial Labels:
  “Their lives continue when the Republic ends or when the empire shifts and divides. Or when Christianity becomes majority religion.” — Edward Watts [03:51]

• On Social Mobility and Slavery:
  “Rome depended on that...But that’s a multi-generational promise. And for the individual slaves, it’s a horrible thing to experience.” — Edward Watts [27:29]

• On Augustus’ Unique Role:
  “Augustus is brutal enough to win a civil war, and also creative enough that he reestablishes institutions and systems that then govern Roman life in a way that’s predictable...” — Edward Watts [20:19]

• On Women’s Political Power:
  “It’s not that they’re...coming up with a way to like poison a man in a shadow so they can take power. They’re doing it directly and men acknowledged that they had the right to do it.” — Edward Watts [37:20]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:51] – The difficulty of covering 2,000 years and centering individual experiences
• [05:35] – The real start of Rome and the problems of the founding myth
• [06:47] – Why Watts chooses 1204 as the true “end” of Rome
• [09:58] – Legitimacy, citizenship, and accountability as Rome’s unbroken threads
• [11:32] – Rome’s unique willingness to integrate outsiders and adapt
• [13:27] – The balancing act between conservatism and openness
• [17:58] – Was the Republic’s fall to Empire inevitable?
• [21:20] – Reality and causes of the Pax Romana
• [24:47] – Tangible examples of Roman social mobility and its limits
• [28:35] – The role of ancient writers in shaping the image of mad and bad emperors
• [32:08] – “Byzantium,” the West’s loss complex, and invented history
• [37:20] – The underestimated political agency of Roman women

Summary

Edward Watts’ conversation offers a sweeping yet nuanced take on what drove Rome’s longevity and its outsized legacy. The keys lay in striking a careful balance between tradition and innovation, openness to talent, and a constant negotiation of legitimacy and accountability among citizens and rulers. While myth and propaganda have shaped some of Rome’s best-known stories (notably its “dangerous” early emperors), Watts highlights the overlooked importance of adaptability, the constructed nature of cultural memory, and the surprising power wielded by non-elite groups, especially women. By examining both continuity and evolution across 2,000 years, this episode is rich in insight for both seasoned history buffs and newcomers, showing not just what made Rome spectacularly successful—but also why its story still resonates.

For Further Exploration:
Check out Edward Watts’ book "The Eternal Decline and Fall of Rome: The History of a Dangerous Idea" and subscribe to the History Extra podcast for more deep dives into the ancient world and beyond.