History Extra Podcast: "SOE: Everything You Wanted to Know"
Host: Eleanor Evans
Guest: Dr. Kate Vigers
Release Date: June 28, 2025

Introduction

In this captivating episode of the History Extra podcast, host Eleanor Evans engages in an enlightening conversation with Dr. Kate Vigers, a renowned historian and author specializing in the Special Operations Executive (SOE) during World War II. Dr. Vigers brings her expertise to unpack the intricate history of SOE, shedding light on the clandestine missions, recruitment strategies, and the significant yet often overlooked contributions of both men and women in the organization.

What Was the SOE and How Was It Formed?

Dr. Vigers begins by defining the SOE, clarifying misconceptions about its origins and operations.

Dr. Kate Vigers [03:14]: "SOE stands for Special Operations Executive. There has been a lot said about it being Churchill's secret army and all this kind of stuff."

She explains that SOE emerged in 1940, amalgamating various pre-existing organizations like Section D, which was responsible for sabotage, and the Lecture Hall focused on black propaganda. The formation was expedited under Winston Churchill's leadership, granting SOE the official mandate of "sabotage and subversion to set Europe ablaze."

Dr. Kate Vigers [03:14]: "The official stamp is given on 22 July 1940, with the remit of sabotage and subversion and to set Europe ablaze. It's a wonderful expression."

SOE operated until the end of Churchill's tenure, ceasing operations by early 1946. It functioned alongside the Secret Intelligence Service (MI6), leading to inherent tensions between the two due to their differing objectives—SOE's direct sabotage versus MI6's intelligence gathering.

Recruitment: Men and Women

Eleanor transitions into discussing recruitment practices within SOE, highlighting the distinctions between male and female recruitment.

Eleanor Evans [06:37]: "So recruitment, to start off with it was a matter of who you knew, not what you knew."

Dr. Vigers elaborates that initially, recruitment relied heavily on the "old boys network," seeking men with military backgrounds or specific regional knowledge necessary for blending into occupied territories. In contrast, women's recruitment was more varied and less structured, often happening serendipitously—such as overhearing a conversation or being spotted for particular skills.

Dr. Kate Vigers [06:37]: "It becomes a bit more random when they start to recruit women. There is no old girls network."

She shares an anecdote about a woman recruited after impressively demonstrating her French language skills at a mundane party, emphasizing the diverse and sometimes accidental nature of female recruitment.

Training Regimen: Rigorous and Adaptive

The training process for SOE agents was comprehensive and evolved throughout the war.

Dr. Kate Vigers [08:42]: "The training changes as the war goes on. I mean, that would be a whole lecture in itself."

Agents underwent multiple interviews, physical training, language instruction, and specialized skills development based on their intended mission roles. Men typically underwent preliminary training at prestigious manors in Surrey, which included basic firearms, Morse code, and demolitions training, often under the guise of commando operations.

Women received dual cover training through organizations like the First Aid Nursing Yeomanry (FANY), allowing them to maintain civilian roles while preparing for espionage duties. This included intense physical training and learning silent killing techniques, such as martial arts and instinctive shooting, to ensure they could operate effectively without arousing suspicion.

Dr. Kate Vigers [03:06]: "They couldn't say to your mum, I'm off to train to be a secret agent, I'll see you in a bit."

Notably, training was tailored to the environment of deployment, whether it be ski instruction for missions in Norway or wireless operation training for communication roles.

Notable Figures in SOE Leadership

Dr. Vigers highlights key leaders within SOE, with a particular focus on Colonel Maurice Buckmaster, head of F Section responsible for operations in France.

Dr. Kate Vigers [16:08]: "Colonel Maurice Buckmaster... was responsible for missions and agents being sent into France on behalf of F Section."

Her discussion underscores Buckmaster's pivotal role in orchestrating missions and managing the delicate balance between operational secrecy and effective sabotage.

Missions and Operations: Successes and Ethical Dilemmas

The episode delves into various missions undertaken by SOE, showcasing their impact and the moral complexities involved.

Operation Gunaside (Norway):
One of the most successful missions, aimed at disrupting the German atomic program by targeting heavy water production.

Dr. Kate Vigers [26:22]: "They lay explosive charges underneath the heavy water... The heavy water's destroyed and the Germans don't produce it again."

Operation Carthage (Copenhagen):
An operation focused on destroying Gestapo headquarters to cripple their intelligence on the Resistance. Despite meticulous planning, it resulted in unintended civilian casualties, raising ethical questions about collateral damage.

Dr. Kate Vigers [19:32]: "They're talking human lives. But they had to decide if the destruction... was worth a few resisters' lives and they go ahead and bomb it."

Smaller, Underrated Missions:
The destruction of the Gorgopotamos viaduct in Greece and sabotage acts by teenage couriers in France illustrate the breadth of SOE's efforts, often overshadowed by larger operations.

Dr. Kate Vigers [26:22]: "It's phenomenal. So there's lots, there's lots and lots go and read about them because they're amazing."

Rivalry Between SOE and SIS

A significant portion of the discussion addresses the contentious relationship between SOE and the Secret Intelligence Service (SIS), primarily MI6.

Dr. Kate Vigers [19:50]: "Operational conflict... it's a conflict of interest, a conflict of personnel and a conflict of sharing information."

Dr. Vigers explains that both organizations sometimes targeted the same objectives without proper coordination, leading to inefficiencies and, in some cases, the demise of SOE networks like the Prosper Network in Paris. She dismisses conspiracy theories suggesting deliberate sabotage by SIS, emphasizing the lack of concrete evidence.

Women in SOE: Contributions and Challenges

Focusing on the often underrepresented role of women in SOE, Dr. Vigers provides detailed insights into their contributions and the systemic challenges they faced.

Dr. Kate Vigers [32:34]: "There were 39 women for F section... 11 women for De Gaulle's section, there were two women in the Netherlands."

Women primarily served as wireless operators and couriers, roles fraught with danger and requiring exceptional skills. Their ability to move more freely in occupied territories, not being registered for forced labor, made them invaluable assets. However, they were rarely placed in leadership positions, often relegated to roles deemed suitable based on their perceived abilities.

Dr. Kate Vigers [32:54]: "As agents, women were primarily given two roles. It would be wireless operator or courier."

Dr. Vigers also touches upon the ongoing efforts to accurately account for the women who served, noting that many records are still inaccessible or incomplete.

Casualties and Recognition

Addressing the human cost of SOE operations, Dr. Vigers recounts the tragic fates of many agents, particularly women.

Dr. Kate Vigers [35:29]: "With the women, there are 13. One of them died of natural causes... the other 12 were in the concentration camp system and were either executed or died as a result of their treatment."

She credits Vera Atkins, a senior SOE officer, for her relentless efforts in uncovering the destinies of missing agents, ensuring that their sacrifices were not forgotten.

Dr. Kate Vigers [35:29]: "Vera Atkins said missing, presumed dead is not good enough. She was the second in command of F Section... She found 117."

Challenges in Historical Research on SOE

Dr. Vigers candidly discusses the hurdles historians face in reconstructing the full scope of SOE's operations.

Dr. Kate Vigers [38:41]: "There are challenges... you have to go back to the primary sources."

The destruction of numerous SOE records, including a significant fire at Baker Street that obliterated essential documents, has left gaps in the historical record. Additionally, the secretive nature of SOE operations and the blending of their activities with other organizations complicate efforts to piece together a comprehensive history.

Dr. Kate Vigers [40:07]: "There was a process of weeding and... there was a fire at Baker Street. We're looking at approximately 85% of records destroyed."

SOE’s Legacy and Representation in Popular Culture

Concluding the episode, Dr. Vigers reflects on the legacy of SOE and its portrayal in media.

Dr. Kate Vigers [44:11]: "You can tell about representation in popular culture... 'Call to Spy' with Virginia Hall, Noorini at Khan and Vera Atkins."

She highlights documentaries and films that attempt to capture the essence of SOE’s operations, noting that while some representations miss the mark, others successfully honor the bravery and ingenuity of SOE agents.

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Dr. Vigers encourages listeners to delve deeper into SOE's multifaceted history, emphasizing the extraordinary contributions of ordinary individuals who undertook perilous missions for the greater good.

Dr. Kate Vigers [48:01]: "They were just like you and me. They were ordinary people who were given the opportunity to do something absolutely extraordinary and for that they deserve to be remembered."

She promotes her latest book, "Mission Europe," which focuses on the lesser-known stories of women in SOE, inviting enthusiasts to further explore this compelling aspect of World War II history.

Notable Quotes

• Dr. Kate Vigers [03:14]: "It's a wonderful expression. I've never found it written anywhere official, but that's reputedly what Churchill said."

• Dr. Kate Vigers [08:42]: "It's kind of the old boys network. Men are recruited because they know one another and so on."

• Dr. Kate Vigers [16:08]: "Colonel Maurice Buckmaster... was responsible for missions and agents being sent into France on behalf of F Section."

• Dr. Kate Vigers [26:22]: "Operation Gunaside is probably the most successful mission... It is quite phenomenal."

• Dr. Kate Vigers [32:34]: "There were 39 women for F section... and I'm really starting to consider what accounts as being SOE."

• Dr. Kate Vigers [35:29]: "Vera Atkins said missing, presumed dead is not good enough."

• Dr. Kate Vigers [38:41]: "There are challenges for any historian of anything."

• Dr. Kate Vigers [48:01]: "They were ordinary people who were given the opportunity to do something absolutely extraordinary and for that they deserve to be remembered."

Final Recommendations

Dr. Vigers advises history enthusiasts to go beyond popular narratives and explore the myriad untold stories of SOE operations across Europe and beyond. She emphasizes the importance of primary sources and encourages active engagement with historical research to honor the legacy of SOE's brave agents.

Dr. Kate Vigers [48:01]: "It's worth digging. If it's a subject that interests you, dig around, have a look."

Listeners are encouraged to explore her work and previous podcast episodes for a more comprehensive understanding of SOE's pivotal role in shaping the course of World War II.

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